What a stupid “I have a black friend” question
You are way too oblivious
Gaspar Noé explains his hatred for ‘Black Panther’: ‘I had to escape the cinema after 20 minutes’
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You are way too oblivious
Having lived in France and Germany I'll say this. It's progress seeing an older European man call rap music anything other than "Black Music"
so you're at least now conceding that his comment was obviously racially coded?
Yeah. I stopped giving a fuck after the R&B music bs. 4chan users get famous too, mews at 11.
No, what I am saying is that different cultures refer to things by different labels. Nothing he said is coded language. He just referred to an American genre by another name because he obviously doesn't give a shit about it.
Please tell me what the fuck you are talking about. There is no R&B music in the first 20 minutes of Black Panther nor is there any rap music or Hip-Hop. There is only the official soundtrack scored by Ludwig Goransoon that features sounds from various parts of Africa as well as drawing sounds from other cultures around the world. So, pray tell, how does one confuse African tribal sounds with R&B music or Hip-Hop or Rap? How is that an "American genre?" What part of the below is R&B?
What? Too Short is being played when the movie cuts to the Oakland scene.
If I'm gonna give him the benefit of the doubt, the 20 minute figure he throws out is a flippant exaggeration, meaning he made it further into the film than literally 20 minutes. Cultural differences and a lack of interest in hip-hop could also account for him throwing RnB out there. People always used to tell me they hated "techno" when they were listening to just about anything with an electronic beat. People are frequently clueless about stuff that an initial distaste keeps them at a distance from. The wording definitely carries unfortunate connotations about race, though, whether or not they reflect a harbouring of conscious or subconscious bigotry. I wouldn't put it past a figure like Noe to have discomfiting views.
So like... inconclusive, I guess? It's an eyebrow raising choice of criticism, given the context, but also a criticism technically possible to espouse without betraying some nefarious subtext.
I've not loved any of his films, and hated one of them, but I find them a lot more interesting than a typical entry in the MCU, so I guess I sorta have a horse in this race. Still not seen Black Panther, so I'm missing that piece of the puzzle in being able to form an opinion here.
What I really hate is that the interviewer asked this pointless question and made me feel obligated to have an opinion in the first place, haha. Like, who cares what Noe thinks of comic book movies? Do we care what Kevin Feige thinks about Call Me By Your Name? Fishing for faux controversy is so obnoxious, and yet here I am talking about it all the same.
So like... inconclusive, I guess? It's an eyebrow raising choice of criticism, given the context, but also a criticism technically possible to espouse without betraying some nefarious subtext.
I've not loved any of his films, and hated one of them, but I find them a lot more interesting than a typical entry in the MCU, so I guess I sorta have a horse in this race. Still not seen Black Panther, so I'm missing that piece of the puzzle in being able to form an opinion here.
What I really hate is that the interviewer asked this pointless question and made me feel obligated to have an opinion in the first place, haha. Like, who cares what Noe thinks of comic book movies? Do we care what Kevin Feige thinks about Call Me By Your Name? Fishing for faux controversy is so obnoxious, and yet here I am talking about it all the same.
Interviewers do this all the time. They always ask the critical darlings what they think of superhero movies and more often than not they say they don’t care either way.
and that made him "escape the theater"?
but the suggesting that that's racist is too far?
It's pretty explicit that having appropriate music play momentarily was too much blackness for him
Does he ever consider himself Argentinean? Dude left when he was like 10 when his dad moved him to France because of all the shit that was going down.
That's really stretching. The song is playing on the radio on the street where the kids are playing basketball, it's not in the forefront of the scene. It fades further into the background as the movie transitions to the interior of the apartment and stops immediately when T'Chaka knocks on the apartment door. So, it plays for maybe a whole minute, if that. And, thaat's at the very start of the movie. Try again.
So what you're saying is that it's there but you're not going to count it because it doesn't fit your argument?
And to think I only thought you did this shit in Star Wars threads.
Here's his quote:
So, what you are saying is that he had such an INTENSE reaction to less than 1 minute of Hip-Hop music barely audible in the background at the opening start of the film within the city of Oakland. Is that what you're saying? Please clarify.Gaspar said:
I mean I'm a giant film snob. I've walked out of movies for less.
Lol at all the Marvel kids who only watch superhero movies and shit on Noé just because he criticized one superhero movie.
The guy directed I stand Alone, which is an incredible movie.
His penis comment is also spot on.
This board would shit on Fellini or Antonioni or Kurosawa or Kubrick too if they dare to criticize a superhero movie.
The guy directed I stand Alone, which is an incredible movie.
His penis comment is also spot on.
This board would shit on Fellini or Antonioni or Kurosawa or Kubrick too if they dare to criticize a superhero movie.
You're the guy saying there wasn't anything other than the score in the first 20 mins then when it's pointed out that isn't true you moved your goal post to another field.
True, accurate and sad at the same time.
I don't want to defend Noe here but the truth is most folks here are full in of pop culture and little or nothing of art and Noe clearly belongs to art.
I don't buy the cultural differences argument considering France is 2nd to America for the hip hop culture since the 80s. Especially where Gaspar Noe resides, Paris, and he has used the same actor from La Haine (1995), Vincent Cassel, which is the film that put him on the map and which he surely must have watched before he hired him for Irreversible (2002).
Gaspar Noe generally thought the music was bad in Black Panther. The Black Panther soundtrack is mostly African music and hip hop, with like just two r&b songs.
http://www.complex.com/music/2016/02/the-best-of-french-hip-hop/
Although America is clearly at the top of the hip-hop food chain, France has always been a fairly close second, with a thriving scene that dates back to the mid-80s. A huge factor in the development of French hip-hop was the TV show HIPHOPaired, which featured music videos and live performances from global rap artists (even Kurtis Blow passed through one time). The show even pre-dated Yo! MTV Raps, suggesting that mainstream French culture was more ready to accept hip-hop than America was at that time.
Like hip-hop across the pond, and most other cultures, it was birthed in France through political movement and was used as a tool to protest the treatment of poverty-stricken citizens in Parisian ghettos and the racial discrimination immigrants and their children faced. It really was (and still is) their one true voice. The scene there has rapidly developed into something incredibly diverse-sounding—political hip-hop is still at the core, but gangsta and jazz-infused rap has also risen to prominence.
Rap evolved in France in a very similar way to what happened in the States but on a slight time delay, as it was the mid-90s where legends really started to be created. Some of this was thanks to the influence of Mathieu Kassovitz's iconic film, La Haine (which is basically a French Do The Right Thing), and its thumping hip-hop soundtrack that included pioneering groups such as Assassin and NTM. The French hip hop scene is still booming today, especially in Paris, which has a fierce underground scene and where most of the country's prominent rappers reside.
Like hip-hop across the pond, and most other cultures, it was birthed in France through political movement and was used as a tool to protest the treatment of poverty-stricken citizens in Parisian ghettos and the racial discrimination immigrants and their children faced. It really was (and still is) their one true voice. The scene there has rapidly developed into something incredibly diverse-sounding—political hip-hop is still at the core, but gangsta and jazz-infused rap has also risen to prominence.
Rap evolved in France in a very similar way to what happened in the States but on a slight time delay, as it was the mid-90s where legends really started to be created. Some of this was thanks to the influence of Mathieu Kassovitz's iconic film, La Haine (which is basically a French Do The Right Thing), and its thumping hip-hop soundtrack that included pioneering groups such as Assassin and NTM. The French hip hop scene is still booming today, especially in Paris, which has a fierce underground scene and where most of the country's prominent rappers reside.
https://www.vice.com/en_uk/article/dpkej7/vincent-cassel-interview
In squats in the 19th arrondissement and clubs like Le Globo and Le Bobino, Cassel was witness to the birth of French hip-hop. "It was very mixed," he recalls, of the crowds and the places. "It was the area of Jean-Paul Goude and Jean-Baptiste Mondino, but at the same time it was the beginning of hip-hop, and we had Public Enemy dropping by and all these kids from the street playing music that nobody would listen to. They weren't playing beats anywhere else – everything was very poppy and, let's face it, very white. We were different, we were dressed different," he trails off. "I don't know – it was real funky."
I mean they’re free to regard his opinion as shit as he is just as free to give a shit opinion. No need to defend his thinly veiled points.
A director who made a 10min rape scene talking about walking out 20 mins in bc "R&B music" (there wasn't any) isn't shocking to me.
If they spoke out their asses the way Noé did, absolutely. And I worship Kurosawa.
And fuck I Stand Alone. Movie is as transparent an attempt at getting attention by being obnoxious, as Noé is in this interview. Carne, Void, and Irreversible. Those I'll give him.
Opps/Pray for me plays during Korea, and All the Stars plays during the credits. All the stars isn't even a R&B song.
My point was you don’t hear any of those within the first 20 minutes. Nigga just being dramatic lmao
C'mon, pretending to say something about movies you haven't seen is the essence of arguing in bad faith. If you weren't still desperate to score "internet points" against me, you'd admit this to yourself and either seek out the damn films in question, or shut up.
Moreover, a site like TV Tropes carries about the same critical weight as those Movie Sins videos you fanboys/girls get so worked up about--i.e., none at all. Cripes, at least cite from something scholarly and worth respecting if you're going to do the whole "appeal to authority" thing (after you see the films, of course).
OK, fine. Now, without consulting meaningless sources like your tropes website, explain to me the tropes 2001 falls back on to communicate its themes and narrative?
Your remark that all films, regardless of how obscure, are "still constrained to the same plot beats and tropes as any summer tentpole" is a pretty damn sweeping generalization considering the diversity of film expression, and tantamount to saying essentially what you are denying (i.e., that Eraserhead and Black Panther are essentially congruent in form). If you're going to make this claim that the titles I mentioned are "constrained to the same plot beats and tropes as any summer tentpole", then provide receipts; ones culled from your own critical faculties, not dubious inventories of minutiae.
You're really doing nothing except demonstrating a willful lack of understanding of what tropes actually are. You are right that TV Tropes has no critical weight, but it's not because it's poor criticism. It's because it's not criticism at all. It's cataloging. A compilation of the story patterns that stories are made up of. It's criticism the same way a cookbook is criticizing cakes by explaining its ingredients contain eggs, flour, and sugar.
That is why I don't need to see any movie to know that it easily uses tropes to tell any story, because tropes are what ANY story is made of. So while I can't say anything about the movies I haven't seen in terms of quality, I can say that they use tropes because every story does, the same way a painting uses paint. It's what defines it as a painting.
Trying to say that can't say a movie is made of tropes without seeing it is like trying to say I can't know a dish is made of ingredients before I eat it, or that I can't know a computer is made out of circuitry before I examine it, or that I can't know a thousand other things are made out of their base universal composition that literally every other thing of their category is made of before interacting with them.
Mindscrew, Things Man Was Not Meant to Know, AI is a Crapshoot, Humans are Bastards, Alternative Character Interpretation, What Do You Mean It wasn't Made on Drugs, being trapped in a torturous state without being able to express it, that one where the ending is just kinda incomprehensible, Pride goeth before the fall (or whatever it's called), just to name a few off the top of my head.
Now if you try to pull this insult shit again, calling me a fanboy (of what, I have no idea) or otherwise continuing to be ignorant of the basic definition of a what a trope is, I'm just gonna be done with you. In the broad strokes, I understand what you are actually trying to communicate, that you like unconventional storytelling tropes, as opposed to the more typical structures of genre, but you're doing it so poorly and with such pathetic insecurity that having to explain and re-explain the most basic definition of what a trope is to you is getting tiring. What I listed above are tropes like any other, and integral to what 2001 a space odyssey was. I don't know if it's what you got out of it, but if AI wasn't a Crapshoot didn't apply, then the entirety of the middle story wouldn't exist. It's not a criticism of the movie, it's just describing what it factually is about. That's all a trope is.
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Keep digging. You're only making yourself look foolish, claiming you have any validity criticizing works of art you have not seen.
Ugh, you can't just drop these arbitrary terms and expect that to suffice. Defining your terms is ground zero for any argument, otherwise you're merely counting inventory. Describe the trope and where it is used in the film so that I can rebut accordingly. That's Discourse 101.
I'm not criticizing them, something I've repeatedly stated, and something you really should understand by now as that's the fundamental thesis of my arguments.
No, what discourse 101 is is actually being able to comprehend the simple, basic ideas of what the other person is trying to communicate to you. You either refuse to. Either that, or you are incapable of doing so, even though I'm not saying anything complicated.
Idk, man, get a teacher to walk you through my earlier posts or something, then get back to me.
Are you for real? This isn't a films studies course. I don't have to provide any receipts to my opinion. This isn't a critique of your favorite films. You challenged a poster to identify tropes in your favorite films and I obliged. Now you want to move the goalposts in an attempt to separate your cluster of auteur filmmaking with something as formulaic as a Marvel film. The point stands that films follow familiar tropes regardless of their obscurity or abstractness. That's the beginning and end of my comparisons between your films and Black Panther. I mean, something as artsy as Matthew Barney's Cremaster Cycle, which has never been released publicly (so this assumption that you have to have seen the film to remark on it is absurd and elitist) still has identifiable tropes. It has to. Human thinking only extends so far beyond the box.
No goalposts have been moved, simply a demand to respond in good faith. Attempting to make claims about a film you haven't seen is arguing in bad faith, no matter what dubiously-sourced websites to which you wish to refer. In any case, I never argued that the films I mentioned were free from tropes, simply that they aren't nearly so propped up by them as are most blockbusters; nor can the tropes in them likely be identified as easily by someone (not a website) debating in good faith.
I'll repeat, you are the one whom made the claim that "obscure" art-house films are "still constrained to the same plot beats and tropes as any summer tentpole". So, back up your claim with an actual comparative analysis. Put up or shut up.
What "familiar tropes" do Mothlight and Dog Star Man follow?
I fucks with him as a filmmaker but imho there’s no doubt he was intentionally being racist. He’s old enough to know hip-hop, not only do the soundtracks of his movies skew towards current dance music he’s got one of the Daft Punk robots. And the actual score of in movie that he called, “R&B” bordered on or was outright dance music..its not as if a SZA track was playing during the fights.
I get the being artsy for artsy sake, hell in my circle of friends im that guy. But he went intentional full 4Chan troll here; Gasper’s a relatively young movie maker making edgy but youth focused movies.
I get the being artsy for artsy sake, hell in my circle of friends im that guy. But he went intentional full 4Chan troll here; Gasper’s a relatively young movie maker making edgy but youth focused movies.
I still clearly remember several couples escaping from the cinema when I saw Noe´s own Irreversible back in 2002.
Considering his history of boldness, it is expected for him to be "aggresive" against a mainstream product, specially a very popular (and, IMHO, vastly overrated) one like Black Panther.
Considering his history of boldness, it is expected for him to be "aggresive" against a mainstream product, specially a very popular (and, IMHO, vastly overrated) one like Black Panther.
Marvel Movies are serious business. No is allowed to hate AFI top 100 material like Ant Man, Black Panther and the now the new entrant - one of the seminal works of this century that directors like Spielberg, Scorsese wish they made in their lives. - Infinity War.
You're kind of just embarrassing yourself at this point, all films follow tropes. There is a reason the expression exists, "nothing new under the sun."