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signal

Member
Oct 28, 2017
40,182
The stuff after 3 minutes with the environmental interaction was interesting I guess. You could say it's overly negative but if people like bringing up melting ice cubes in MGS2 every three months then I don't really see a problem highlighting such changes. Clearly some people care about minor details like this while others don't.
 

supernormal

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
3,144
This is actually my biggest criticism of the Gears games after 2. They just became generic looking with eye candy of low-hanging sort of fruit. Beaches, palms, sunsets etc.

There was a depressing but all the more compelling beauty about the cold, rainy and dark ruins of Gears 1 and 2 and quite frankly, I think the series increasingly lost its visual identity with 3 going forward. Gears 5, as great as it may be as a product judged in a vacuum, really seems like it wants to be Uncharted-like tour of great-looking vistas or something.

I appreciate this post. I have the same criticism for Killzone which had a really strong visual identity that just faded away for something super generic. Gears and Killzone owned that dark destroyed beauty look both in different ways.
 

Deleted member 49535

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 10, 2018
2,825
The most noticeable things for me is the lack of blood / blood disappearing and the non-existent destruction on the environment.
 

Deleted member 21858

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
716
Crowbcat has some funny and well made videos, but yeah... he is from a group of youtubers that gets a living by doing mostly dumb videos to fuel the outrage gaming culture, being toxic and finding flaws everywhere. His audience is mostly people that complain about anything and go to the steam forums to post shit after shit.

And Gears 5 looks great from what I saw in the GB Quick Look.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,997
I don't really watch this channel but didn't they have a big following here until now, seemingly? Seems I recall excited threads when he released something new and now everyone's acting like he streamed himself drowning a box of kittens. What happened?

Just lost the zeitgeist?
 

Xumbrega

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,080
Brasil
Fuck crowbcat and his bullshit videos, I can't believe this guy has fans in here, he's the definition of capital G gamers, ugh.
 

Deleted member 7373

Guest
Honestly the majority of these changes I think are just for competitive sake, like the flinching under sustained fire and the extreme screen shake. Back in Gears 1 & 2 (especially 1) the campaign was the primary focus for sure so it made sense to have details like that in the game.
 

Tora

The Enlightened Wise Ones
Member
Jun 17, 2018
8,637
I really don't like Crowbcat as a channel, guy is so sensationalist (I know that's his shtick) but he seems to misinform so many people.

To be fair, most of those people love this type of content so you can't really win lol
 

Linus815

Member
Oct 29, 2017
19,696
I find the GTA IV vs V video really interesting purely as a way of observing changes and such. It's neat to see. I'm not sure he needs to proclaim one "better" than the other to make a video like that, but I guess it works for him.

This one is also kinda neat, but a little boring and I'm not sure I agree with everything he's trying to show.

the video itself is interesting without a doubt. But it's also super misleading as it is VERY one sided.
GTA 5 added a bunch of different details that GTA 4 lacks, and also GTA 5 has placed focus on a bunch of other things, like considerably better IQ, more stable framerate, bigger map, etc.
And then to claim that "GTA 4 is better thna GTA 5" because some miniscule details are better in 4 is uhh... odd to say the least (that's not to say that people can't prefer 4 - they can, and I get that, but I think its not gonna be because one game has better water physics when the heli is close to the water, when the other does not)
 

Deleted member 36578

Dec 21, 2017
26,561
Those all looked like valid points in the video to me.
 

VeePs

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,357
There was a depressing but all the more compelling beauty about the cold, rainy and dark ruins of Gears 1 and 2 and quite frankly, I think the series increasingly lost its visual identity with 3 going forward. Gears 5, as great as it may be as a product judged in a vacuum, really seems like it wants to be Uncharted-like tour of great-looking vistas or something.

I understand you don't like it but I want to state that story wise Gears 5 is like that for a reason. it's been what, 20 years since the Locust war?

Locust war destroyed most of civilization, hence the "Destroyed Beauty" art style of Gears 1-3.

Gears 4 onwards show's how humanity has advanced, and how peace/isolation has effected various places on Sera.
 
Oct 25, 2017
41,368
Miami, FL
The stuff after 3 minutes with the environmental interaction was interesting I guess. You could say it's overly negative but if people like bringing up melting ice cubes in MGS2 every three months then I don't really see a problem highlighting such changes. Clearly some people care about minor details like this while others don't.
But there is no highlight video showing all of the improvements in little details either. It's not a lack of people caring about details; it's that this presentation is disingenuous and specious. It shows what has changed for the worse in the eyes of its creator while showing nothing in the other direction. Because that would counteract his point I guess.
 

MilesQ

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,490
Seriously, I think some people are missing something with the video and it's probably not what the uploader had in mind.

We can see the concessions they had to make to get the game running at 60fps. The disappearing blood, no blood trail when crawling, glass doesn't fracture but shatters completely, water impact isn't as realistic, less scenery is destructible, the sandbags don't lose sand with every shot.

Pretty fascinating to see it side by side like this.
 

Toxi

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
17,547
Reminder that he used a racist joke in a video a few years back and never apologized.
Calling it a racist joke honestly makes it sound better than it actually is. He was parroting a fucking /pol/ meme. At this point I give the side eye to Crowbcat fans whenever one of his videos gets a thread here.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,240
But there is no highlight video showing all of the improvements in little details either. It's not a lack of people caring about details; it's that this presentation is disingenuous and specious. It shows what has changed for the worse in the eyes of its creator while showing nothing in the other direction. Because that would counteract his point I guess.
In regards to enemy hit reactions/gore/environmental destruction, are there any improvements to show? Besides 60fps.
 

cyrribrae

Chicken Chaser
Member
Jan 21, 2019
12,723
Ok I got 4 minutes in and I had to stop. So dumb. Glad he got clicks lol. Chainsaw animations have less flailing now. Positive. Hit reactions on the character are less distracting now. Positive. Blood decals fade now. Positive (I don't stare at the blood, but I DO value performance).

As people have mentioned, the way he treated some of these other things is just flawed. Environments are less destructive (oh wait, except they're more destructive if he has just gone to areas in 5 that feature it). Why not show off the dynamic environs in the ice areas, for example, that significantly change the battlefield as they're shot? I am not qualified to judge how he recorded his audio, but.. "Ok?" to that turret audio point. And I just disagree with the gore point. Enemies still get gibbed, the sound and animation of a headshot is so much more satisfying now (which didn't get shown BTW). Eh.

Hit reactions on enemies might be a thing. I think they're too much in the old games, but could be more pronounced in 5. But I don't think they're different enough that I would care in combat. I see the enemies reacting to getting shot, even from far away. That's enough. Flailing doesn't make it look better. Still, I think that was a major issue with the DBs in 4, and I wouldn't mind that TC split the difference.

Overall? This video just made me waste 20 minutes. Sigh.


In regards to enemy hit reactions/gore/environmental destruction, are there any improvements to show? Besides 60fps.

100%. Have you played the game?
 

signal

Member
Oct 28, 2017
40,182
But there is no highlight video showing all of the improvements in little details either. It's not a lack of people caring about details; it's that this presentation is disingenuous and specious. It shows what has changed for the worse in the eyes of its creator while showing nothing in the other direction. Because that would counteract his point I guess.
I guess, though is it something any other normal review goes over? I don't think things like "older gears had arguably better environmental glass breaking" is something anyone mentions, or even cares that much about, thus I don't think (some) of the videos are overly negative since the combined differences are kind of minor and I don't think most people come out with a "Gears 5 is trash" impression after watching.

I think things like "downgrade" comparisons are complete garbage (and this forum is arguably a worse contributor to that then that channel is) but I think pointing out these changes is OK. Ideally it would be more of a showing off of changes within a series (even if it were just stuff that were removed from later games) and not a completely negative framing though.
 

VeePs

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,357
But there is no highlight video showing all of the improvements in little details either. It's not a lack of people caring about details; it's that this presentation is disingenuous and specious. It shows what has changed for the worse in the eyes of its creator while showing nothing in the other direction. Because that would counteract his point I guess.

I was messing around in Hoard yesterday and doing active reloads. I noticed all my clips fall on the floor and stay there for awhile, and I could shoot them and they bounce around lol. Small detail, but I don't think it was present in Gears 1-3.

I've only played a bit of Act 1 but in the the facility to get the Hammer of Dawn blueprints, I noticed some ammo on a railing, and noticed a explosive cannister under it. Shot it, the whole railing fell, letting me go up there, grab ammo, and shoot enemies from the high ground. I can't remember Gears 1-3 having optional destructive set pieces like this. But I thought it was a nice touch.
 

Deleted member 49535

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 10, 2018
2,825
Those all looked like valid points in the video to me.
They are. But everyone here is like "Man fuck Crowbcat, Gears 5 is great, he's so trash!!!1!" without even bothering to see the video, because that's the rational approach to take, apparently.

What's amusing is how other threads about him are the opposite. I guess talking about a game you like is not allowed.

You can enjoy a game and still criticize certain aspects of it. Come on, people. Is he reaching in some of his criticisms? Of course. But he makes some very valid points.
 
Aug 13, 2019
3,574
I've never played Gear 2 or 5, I have 2, Judgement, and 3 sitting here waiting for me to get an Xbox 360. With that said, I can see what OP means. Gears 2's action certainly has more visual weight. It's appealing when attacks look like they have a strong impact. That isn't to say that 2 is a better game than 5, it's just something the predecessor did better. It isn't a huge deal, but it is appreciated when it's there.
 

VeePs

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,357
But everyone here is like "Man fuck Crowbcat, Gears 5 is great, he's so trash!!!1!" without even bothering to see the video, because that's the rational approach to take, apparently.

More than several users have posted why they think this video is wrong.

Instead of going "Crowbcat is SO GREAT EVERYONE LOVES HIM except THIS THREAD!!!1111" why not reply to them instead?
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,240
100%. Have you played the game?
I have, I finished act 1 yesterday. Combat felt like the Gears I remembered, but less satisfying. I chalked it up to it being 2019 though so the formula being less engaging now.

But for me it makes sense now, after watching this video. I prefer the hit reactions and chainsawing of the older games. RAAAAAGGGRHHHHHHHHHH xD
 

signal

Member
Oct 28, 2017
40,182
I was messing around in Hoard yesterday and doing active reloads. I noticed all my clips fall on the floor and stay there for awhile, and I could shoot them and they bounce around lol. Small detail, but I don't think it was present in Gears 1-3.

I've only played a bit of Act 1 but in the the facility to get the Hammer of Dawn blueprints, I noticed some ammo on a railing, and noticed a explosive cannister under it. Shot it, the whole railing fell, letting me go up there, grab ammo, and shoot enemies from the high ground. I can't remember Gears 1-3 having optional destructive set pieces like this. But I thought it was a nice touch.
That's cool.

See I think people appreciate minor details in games like this. If Crowbcat is a channel to highlight minor details that get removed from newer entries in a series that were present in older ones, there's probably room for a dedicated channel that does the opposite. Probably even without a comparison to older games to not bait "well no shit it better have that, it's a newer game!!!," just "here's some cool minor shit this new release has."
 

antitrop

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,568
That's cool.

See I think people appreciate minor details in games like this. If Crowbcat is a channel to highlight minor details that get removed from newer entries in a series that were present in older ones, there's probably room for a dedicated channel that does the opposite. Probably even without a comparison to older games to not bait "well no shit it better have that, it's a newer game!!!," just "here's some cool minor shit this new release has."
That sounds like Digital Foundry.
 

Bedlam

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
4,536
I understand you don't like it but I want to state that story wise Gears 5 is like that for a reason. it's been what, 20 years since the Locust war?

Locust war destroyed most of civilization, hence the "Destroyed Beauty" art style of Gears 1-3.

Gears 4 onwards show's how humanity has advanced, and how peace/isolation has effected various places on Sera.
Totally not a narrative excuse to put beautiful, lush vistas into the game(s).

They could've come up with anything. They chose the easy, mainstream money-making route of beaches and rainbows.

Despite story vehicles justifying the visiual change, in my opinion the Gears IP lost a good amount of identity and soul in the process. Gears was supposed to be this gritty, intense, bloody, dark and other-worldly depiction of the ugliness of war. These days the IP is chasing Uncharted and the like (I still remember Spencer's comments about the Uncharted IP btw and got to wonder if that shaped any creative decisions). Chasing is never good. Gears was at its best when it was doing its own thing perfectly in 1 and 2.
 

SirMossyBloke

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,855
In regards to enemy hit reactions/gore/environmental destruction, are there any improvements to show? Besides 60fps.

There's so much improvement. Gears 5 is gorier, has more blood splatter for headshots, is overall squishier and beefier in general.

The improvements to overall combat over the older ones is very noticable. Especially the stagger animations and ragdolls.
 

swimming

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,471
lmao 5 is easily and infinitely better than previous iterations in look and feel. won't let some shitty vid tell me otherwise
 

Yasumi

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,566
I'm not really seeing what justifies all the "Fuck this guy for showing an older game with more environmental destruction/animation/physics, he's pathetic." Like, what?
 

Deleted member 49535

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 10, 2018
2,825
More than several users have posted why they think this video is wrong.

Instead of going "Crowbcat is SO GREAT EVERYONE LOVES HIM except THIS THREAD!!!1111" why not reply to them instead?
Probably because I don't really care that much and haven't played the game myself. But it's interesting to see how certain threads here go one way or the other into polar opposites depending on what the first responses say. I guess people are that easily swayed.

And I wouldn't say "several". The vast majority is simply refusing to see what he has to say and choosing to close their eyes and scream so that they can't be convinced otherwise.
 

Eggiem

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,773
If you compare these two games like that, there are some differences.

Does it matter?

No.

Clickbaity Youtube "content creation" in a nutshell.
 

Deleted member 56580

User requested account closure
Banned
May 8, 2019
1,881
Some weapons definitely have some "intensity" tied to them (enforcer, markan, GL lancer) but yeah the lancer absolutely isn't one of them

Overall its been toned down compared to 2. It's the last one I've played prior but its exactly how I remembered it, just flat out gory and whatnot and that aspect is almost entirely gone in 5 if you don't take the gibs in account. Kinda weird. Not bad, just different
 

Trup1aya

Literally a train safety expert
Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,320
This guy always points out details that I never would have noticed... He's got a great eye. but I think it's biased.

the loss of deformation of concrete when shot is truly missed. But the other details were probably lost in favor of adding other, more noticeable details.

Some of the changes are for gameplay reasons. Like stopping power was truly annoying and pulling the roadie run camera back, makes it feel faster and less disorienting.
 
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Fredrik

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,003
I just took a quick peek but it's hard to disagree on the isolated examples I saw. But it's still without a doubt the best game in the serie, haven't been this impressed by a new release in a long time. And it's stellar both on PC and the X, not sure about the OG Xbox One though, 30fps isn't all that hot in 2019.