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Gematsu: Sega halts sales of Judgement (JP) after actor Pierre Taki arrested on cocaine charges

Nov 11, 2017
2,594
What makes you think that way?
Bolded I presume?

Because these are actively harmful crimes where one person violates another's consent. A murderer takes away a person's life. A violent person harms someone else when they don't want to be harmed. A person watching child porn actively participates in a trade where kids are shipped around like objects and routinely sexually abused by people old enough to be their fathers. And so on. I'd go so far as to suggest theft is actually more "sinful" than simple drug use, as you're taking something from someone without asking.

Hard drugs? You're choosing to fuck yourself up, and in the end, you're still held accountable for crimes you commit that do violate others when under the influence. Sure, you may be somewhat pressured into it if you're in a bad environment, which is bad, but this applies to all sorts of things that can be bad for you but people still choose to do, and the problem there, again, is having something forced on you against your will.

So, what's the death ratio? Are you telling me America has just as many people who do drug as people who consume alcohol? Only 40,000 people died of gun shot last year in America, fewer than half of drug death, I guess no point in banning guns either?
Don't move the goalposts. You didn't talk about ratios. I was merely playing by your game. I, at any rate, feel statistics alone do not paint a proper picture of any problem.

So. Do you want to ban alcohol as well? Research has shown alcohol use is just as dangerous as coke use. Coke, at least, is usually not fatal when you get addicted and go through the pain of withdrawal, while alcohol withdrawal often leads to death; though this is admittely traded off with coke being far easier to OD on. So they're equalized there. But outside of that, both fuck up parts of your body beyond repair, both addle your mind in the moment, both cause a lot of harm to the user and to those around them.

For the record, if you think we should, I disagree, but I can totally respect that viewpoint, 100%, as someone who chooses to live alcohol free and drug free. But if you don't, then I do think it's highly hypocritical to say one dangerous, recreational substance is okay but the other is not.

Guns, I'd also argue, are not equatable to drugs. No one shoots people with drugs. There's not some guy walking around with a needle constantly shooting people up against their will, or dropping coke powder on people. Again, of course, drug pushers are bad, but we're not talking about that.

Internal rebellions that cost tens of millions of lives weren’t the reason, it was just drugs making people miserable
Let's not understate the impact of opium though. Yes, the internal strife of China at the time was a big part of it, but the opium certainly exacerbated it beyond short-term repair.
 
Crazy thing is that the same thing would have happened if he was caught with weed.

East Asia in general has incredibly strict drug laws. I live in China and Korea, and both countries treat weed as a Class A narcotic. If you get caught with it, life as you know it is in serious jeopardy. It's not the drug that will destroy your life, it's the government that will if they find out you use it.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,321
Spain
So, what if, say, Miyamoto was busted, how the hell would they respond to that?
Banished from the credits of the games he's made, fired and probably lots of interviews and content deleted. This is all an assumption, but companies don't like to deal with criminals. Even if the law is absurd and draconian like the drug one.
 
Oct 25, 2017
76
Are we talking about the fall of Qing dynasty or the fall of Chinese people? Cuz Qing dynasty's fall was inevitable no matter what like every previous dynasty. It was rotten, and it was overthrown. Every few hundred years it happened. But opium was what makes Chinese people miserable.


So, what's the death ratio? Are you telling me America has just as many people who do drug as people who consume alcohol? Only 40,000 people died of gun shot last year in America, fewer than half of drug death, I guess no point in banning guns either?
The drugs people are dying from in America are not illegal.
 
Oct 26, 2017
3,779
Ineffective at curbing drug use? Of course, because prohibition does not work.
They were plenty effective at destroying lives, targeting minorities, and filling up for-profit prisons, however.
People will always seek to self-medicate. If it isn't "illegal" drugs, it's prescription medication, or alcohol. Take Japan, they just ruin themselves with booze instead.
The distinctions between legal and illegal drugs are so often arbitrary and political bullshit, and draconian drug laws targeting them are pointless and harmful.
Their lifes are deservingly destroyed imo. They know the risk and they do it, and they have to suck it up.
 
Oct 26, 2017
3,779
Bolded I presume?

Because these are actively harmful crimes where one person violates another's consent. A murderer takes away a person's life. A violent person harms someone else when they don't want to be harmed. A person watching child porn actively participates in a trade where kids are shipped around like objects and routinely sexually abused by people old enough to be their fathers. And so on. I'd go so far as to suggest theft is actually more "sinful" than simple drug use, as you're taking something from someone without asking.

Hard drugs? You're choosing to fuck yourself up, and in the end, you're still held accountable for crimes you commit that do violate others when under the influence. Sure, you may be somewhat pressured into it if you're in a bad environment, which is bad, but this applies to all sorts of things that can be bad for you but people still choose to do, and the problem there, again, is having something forced on you against your will.

Don't move the goalposts. You didn't talk about ratios. I was merely playing by your game. I, at any rate, feel statistics alone do not paint a proper picture of any problem.

So. Do you want to ban alcohol as well? Research has shown alcohol use is just as dangerous as coke use. Coke, at least, is usually not fatal when you get addicted and go through the pain of withdrawal, while alcohol withdrawal often leads to death; though this is admittely traded off with coke being far easier to OD on. So they're equalized there. But outside of that, both fuck up parts of your body beyond repair, both addle your mind in the moment, both cause a lot of harm to the user and to those around them.

For the record, if you think we should, I disagree, but I can totally respect that viewpoint, 100%, as someone who chooses to live alcohol free and drug free. But if you don't, then I do think it's highly hypocritical to say one dangerous, recreational substance is okay but the other is not.

Guns, I'd also argue, are not equatable to drugs. No one shoots people with drugs. There's not some guy walking around with a needle constantly shooting people up against their will, or dropping coke powder on people. Again, of course, drug pushers are bad, but we're not talking about that.

Let's not understate the impact of opium though. Yes, the internal strife of China at the time was a big part of it, but the opium certainly exacerbated it beyond short-term repair.
I am asking what makes you think that East Asia deem drug use as a harsher crime than murder and sexual violence etc.
 
Oct 25, 2017
10,368
Their lifes are deservingly destroyed imo. They know the risk and they do it, and they have to suck it up.
This is so morally fucked I don't even know where to begin...

A lot of drug use happens because of lack of education with young people in low income areas being exploited and their lives are "deservingly destroyed"? You have a very ignorant viewpoint and are seemingly incapable of empathy for other human beings.

Since its unregulated they're also often being sold literal poison instead and here in my country synthetic cannabis is killing many people because its cheap and they simply do not know better. How the fuck is sending troubled/sick people to prison an improvement? Its just going to ruin lives and families twice over.
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,505
Brazil
In regards to singers having boyfriends that was mentioned earlier in the thread.
The average Japanese person doesn't actually care about that. It's only the otaku crowd who get upset over that. The companies that manage these idols know they are a big market. Which is why all lyrics are designed to cultivate the image of these idols singing to them. That she could be your girlfriend. So these idols have to hide their love lives less the fantasy be ruined for the incels.
It's an example of capitlism taken to the extreme.
You do know that idol is pretty huge and not something niche, right?

Is this really the way Japanese companies handle those things? Like one person could bring down a whole company. What if a key developer at Nintendo does drugs? All Mario/Pokemon game sales on hold? Seems alien for me from a business perspective and super unfair to the rest of the company. You can't control every single employee/partner.
Not if it was a random employee but if it was Miyamoto, then Nintendo probably would (and then gets bankrupt)

And his characters ended up in that big anime game crossover Jump Force too and never got wiped out or canceled.

So apparently a pretty famous (in Japan) synth pop artist/actor gets caught doing coke (shocker) and that's somehow worse? What the heck, Japan?
The difference between those two is the law and stigma. One is a law that just began in 1999 while still very lax and that was revised in 2014 but still very lax which is why Watsuki only paid a quantity and then he was able to return. The other have a huge stigma in Japan and a much strict law so that's why the treatment of them is different in that way. Yes, it's weird but it is what it is, that's the truth.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,726
Singapore
Not if it was a random employee but if it was Miyamoto, then Nintendo probably would (and then gets bankrupt)
I don't think so. Ultimately it's more about visual or audio association (not letting people see a convicted person in a product), so any book or interview or Direct with Miyamoto in it would be taken down or pulled. His name might be scrubbed from all credits in games, but they don't have to pull any games where his person isn't front and center on packaging, marketing, or content. It's a very superficial concept of depersoning.
 
Dec 20, 2018
212
Bolded I presume?

Because these are actively harmful crimes where one person violates another's consent. A murderer takes away a person's life. A violent person harms someone else when they don't want to be harmed. A person watching child porn actively participates in a trade where kids are shipped around like objects and routinely sexually abused by people old enough to be their fathers. And so on. I'd go so far as to suggest theft is actually more "sinful" than simple drug use, as you're taking something from someone without asking.

Hard drugs? You're choosing to fuck yourself up, and in the end, you're still held accountable for crimes you commit that do violate others when under the influence. Sure, you may be somewhat pressured into it if you're in a bad environment, which is bad, but this applies to all sorts of things that can be bad for you but people still choose to do, and the problem there, again, is having something forced on you against your will.
I am very very curious about why you do not mention actively participating in fueling drug cartels and all the horrors that go down with that. Surely you realize that by partaking in illegal drugs you are an active participant in a trade involving some of the cruelest and vile people on the planet?
 
Oct 25, 2017
681
You do know that idol is pretty huge and not something niche, right?
Yes, but the one person who buys 10 copies of the latest single is a more valuable consumer than 5 typical fans. The rules of Japanese music sales charts have actually had to change multiple times to counteract the absurd number inflation caused by idol whales who would buy boxes of CDs at concerts only to later dump them in public parks. It's consequently been very difficult for ancillary markets to determine what is actually popular with many people VS. what idol acts can win over the most diehards. Only the BIGGEST idols have any tangible cultural relevance and the overwhelming majority are still virtual unknowns.

Idol groups are like F2P mobile games. Only the whales actually matter and their wants are catered to almost exclusively because they bring in a majority of the revenue. It's why so many diehards end up going off the deep end and stalking them-- the kind of person who would buy hundreds of copies of a CD to help boost their favourite group member is obviously unbalanced. They have a problem-- they are fed a false persona of a stranger, coaxed into dumping money into the brand, urged to spend hours upon hours investing themselves more and more into what ultimately becomes a romantic obsession. And that mask these idols wear is created almost exclusively to beckon that obsessive attraction.

I say almost because of course, idols do need to have a wide appeal. But it'd be disingenuous to argue that the "Japanese idol image" is created for the mass market. It's just not. Korean idols' are, and that's why they're huge everywhere and not just one tiny insular market they milk ad nauseum.

I realize this is off-topic, but I felt it important to clear up this misconception.
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,505
Brazil
Yes, but the one person who buys 10 copies of the latest single is a more valuable consumer than 5 typical fans. The rules of Japanese music sales charts have actually had to change multiple times to counteract the absurd number inflation caused by idol whales who would buy boxes of CDs at concerts only to later dump them in public parks. It's consequently been very difficult for ancillary markets to determine what is actually popular with many people VS. what idol acts can win over the most diehards. Only the BIGGEST idols have any tangible cultural relevance and the overwhelming majority are still virtual unknowns.

Idol groups are like F2P mobile games. Only the whales actually matter and their wants are catered to almost exclusively because they bring in a majority of the revenue. It's why so many diehards end up going off the deep end and stalking them-- the kind of person who would buy hundreds of copies of a CD to help boost their favourite group member is obviously unbalanced. They have a problem-- they are fed a false persona of a stranger, coaxed into dumping money into the brand, urged to spend hours upon hours investing themselves more and more into what ultimately becomes a romantic obsession. And that mask these idols wear is created almost exclusively to beckon that obsessive attraction.

I say almost because of course, idols do need to have a wide appeal. But it'd be disingenuous to argue that the "Japanese idol image" is created for the mass market. It's just not. Korean idols' are, and that's why they're huge everywhere and not just one tiny insular market they milk ad nauseum.

I realize this is off-topic, but I felt it important to clear up this misconception.
I do know that aspect, but I know that there's a pretty big number of idol groups that are known in Japan if you ask people in the street.
 
Oct 26, 2017
3,779
This is so morally fucked I don't even know where to begin...

A lot of drug use happens because of lack of education with young people in low income areas being exploited and their lives are "deservingly destroyed"? You have a very ignorant viewpoint and are seemingly incapable of empathy for other human beings.

Since its unregulated they're also often being sold literal poison instead and here in my country synthetic cannabis is killing many people because its cheap and they simply do not know better. How the fuck is sending troubled/sick people to prison an improvement? Its just going to ruin lives and families twice over.
That scenario is near impossible to happen in a nation where illegal drugs are not available (almost) at all in the first place.

hopefully your country will take steps in improving those situations. Not cool to see people abusing drugs so casually
 
Oct 25, 2017
773
USA
That scenario is near impossible to happen in a nation where illegal drugs are not available (almost) at all in the first place.

hopefully your country will take steps in improving those situations. Not cool to see people abusing drugs so casually
I agree that dangerous drugs should be illegal, but I don't agree that people who become addicted to these drugs lives should be ruined. We shouldn't be prosecuting users, we should be providing rehabilitation and counseling services. Imprisoning and making pariahs of drug addicts helps nobody, and at least in my country, the United States current drug laws are inherently racist as they're designed to target minorities more than anybody else.

The dealers who get people addicted to these drugs absolutely should be prosecuted though.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,726
Singapore
That scenario is near impossible to happen in a nation where illegal drugs are not available (almost) at all in the first place.

hopefully your country will take steps in improving those situations. Not cool to see people abusing drugs so casually
This is nonsense and I think you are sprouting this nonsense out of ignorance rather than malice. There is no such thing as a nation where illegal drugs are not available at all. No matter how tough the drug laws are it exists, and young people from troubled backgrounds are usually the first victims. It's very easy to say all this when you might not see any of this happening yourself or your background, work, and social circle are totally disconnected from these problems. Society can do a great job of covering up things that aren't convenient by gating it off through classism.

Singapore is a place people generally think has really low drug rates because of the tough mandatory death sentence for trafficking, but guess what, we are acknowledging that more young people are falling into drug abuse and it's something we are trying to combat with better education and social outreach, not just by arresting more people.

Maybe instead of sitting there arguing with everyone about how "drugs are bad and so tough laws alone are good, there will be no social problems with drugs as long as laws are tough" you could do more outreach yourself and learn about the problems out there and what actually needs to be done to tackle the very real problem of drug abuse.

https://www.straitstimes.com/politi...time-drug-abusers-is-a-trend-of-concern-amrin

To combat the drug scourge, the authorities have relied on preventive education as their first line of defence, with the Central Narcotics Bureau reaching out to students through talks, roadshows, social media and projects, said Mr Amrin.
Additionally, the drug rehabilitation regime will also be strengthened, as the ministry will make a distinction between pure abusers who only consume drugs and those who also commit other crimes on top of their drug habit, said Mr Amrin.


Pure drug offenders will undergo intensive rehabilitation in the Drug Rehabilitation Centre instead of going through long-term imprisonment.
Mr Shanmugam also highlighted a slew of other provisions to help incarcerated drug abusers kick their addiction.

This includes psychology-based correctional programmes, provided by the prison service, which help address an abuser's underlying drug addiction issues, he said.

Prior to their release, the Singapore Corporation of Rehabilitative Enterprises will match them to jobs and provide job coaching to help abusers, said Mr Shanmugam.

Those with a higher risk of re-offending are also given more help through a mandatory after-care scheme, he added.
 
Oct 25, 2017
681
I do know that aspect, but I know that there's a pretty big number of idol groups that are known in Japan if you ask people in the street.
I am aware of this, but it is crucial to highlight within the context of this discussion that idols having purity clauses in their employment contracts is not comparable in any way to Japanese society's reaction to drug usage. The former is often a matter of annoyance to the general public, while the latter is an extension of a (dated) cultural norm. Speaking to the former, these employment terms exist because (primarily female) idols are tailored to the extreme, obsessive niche. That is their primary market. Whether or not the rest of the world or even just the country likes them is gravy-- if they cared about that, they'd make good music. Which is why most people really don't care all that much, and only know about a handful of idol acts that appear regularly on TV. Mostly Johnny's stuff, and the number girls (and even then, only the big 3 and possibly the local unit). That represents a pretty small fraction of the idol business as it stands today.
 
Oct 25, 2017
225
I'm sure the japanese govt is using drug crimes to keep minorities down. /s

People keep trying to plug in how other countries look at drugs into Japan's society. In japan you can't plead ignorance to the consequences of using drugs. Is it really a bad thing that Japan has less drug use? It would be impossible to do in the US but I wish it would. US should also nail people to the cross for DUIs but instead we have lawyers that specialize in helping people not be held accountable for their actions.
 
Nov 11, 2017
2,594
I am asking what makes you think that East Asia deem drug use as a harsher crime than murder and sexual violence etc.
For the latter? Again. Watsuki. Man got a slap on the wrist and a fucking apology. Not to mention the seeming epidemic of train groping that, in spite of it's existence, I've heard nothing resulting in such a level of condemnation as this, even though that's what crime this response should warrant. If sexual violence was considered as bad, there was no way we wouldn't see a lot more of this sort of resultant fallout. Let's not get into some of the stuff I've heard going down in South Korea via osmosis from K-pop fans and Korean folks...

Murder doesn't seem to happen much so I'm probably wrong on that one, admittedly. But I'm just asking for consistency.

I am very very curious about why you do not mention actively participating in fueling drug cartels and all the horrors that go down with that. Surely you realize that by partaking in illegal drugs you are an active participant in a trade involving some of the cruelest and vile people on the planet?
Well, if we're linking drugs inherently to violent criminal organizations rather than perhaps, maybe, just involving local suppliers, guess we should crack down on hostess clubs and pachinko parlors too. Sure some might be legit, but a lot are run by yakuza!

The point is child porn inherently involves child abuse. Drug production doesn't inherently require violence. It often does, yes, but it's not inherent. And it would be absolutely not required if it was regulated instead of outright banned, you know, like alcohol, which is as inherently dangerous as coke. Let's not even get into how this in itself is an extenuating circumstance- cocaine is relatively uncommon in Japan. Weed, which as we all know is non-addictive, relatively harmless and easily, easily produced without harming anyone due to being literally just a plant, has lead to similarly harsh career enders, particularly among Japanese athletes.

My other point is- if you're not as against alcohol as coke, you're a hypocrite. Either both are okay to let people fuck themselves up on, or neither is.

Also I don't do drugs. Including alcohol. I MAY try cannabis one of these days if it becomes more accepted, but anything harder like tobacco? No thanks.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
12,505
Brazil
Btw, people are rightfully so calling the absurdity of Watsuki and him not being in jail but in the west we have a very similar problem: Cristiano Ronaldo and Robinho rapped women, with the first one even admiting it and both are free without any problem. The first one even still has his sponsors and all so yes, this same thing does happens here as well. Same for Jonnhy Deep still being on the movies after beating women and so on.