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viciouskillersquirrel

Cheering your loss
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,874
I want to talk a little about gender swap filters and machine learning and what both might mean for society at large.

A few years back at the old forum, there was a thread or two about FaceApp, an app that took photos, did some processing on them and spat out realistic-looking results based on gender swaps, ageing/de-ageing, adding smiles etc. Later on, the app briefly had some "race" filters that allowed you to see your own features on members of other races, which I initially thought could help people see themselves in other people's shoes, but ended up being used by Twitter users to make racist jokes, so they were taken down mere hours after first becoming available.

This is why we can't have nice things.

Anyway, with Snapchat bringing out a gender swap filter that does the processing in real time, it makes me think about the huge potential for abuse of this technology.

Imagine someone clandestinely de-ageing themselves on dating apps and video chat in order to deceive prospective dates. Imagine someone stealing someone's identity and cat fishing people to torment them. Think of how easy it would be to generate fake news and what it means for democratic institutions when you cannot even trust video evidence. Even on a smaller level, the ease with which you could generate a fake video of someone to defame them and have that spread through social media has increased exponentially. People are already using this type of technology to generate fake porn of celebrities as well as stalking victims.

There are upsides too, perhaps. Movies and games needing crowds can now potentially have these generated on the fly.

I made the following using FaceApp. In years to come these will be seen as crude and primitive, of course, but to me right now it's uncanny. It starts with my own face and then generates a picture of a woman who could be my sister (she certainly bears a strong resemblance to my Mum). There's even a "HD" version of the same, which seemingly applies makeup to the face.

DIGmAVt.jpg

mYoUWTo.jpg


PEOif1L.jpg

Ey47XwX.jpg

Now, the filter is fairly easy to break if you're not looking at the camera dead on and it will sometimes confuse background objects with your face, but it is robust enough to work under varying lighting conditions and consistent enough that the faces it generates are recognisable. If this is possible in real time now, imagine where we'll be in another five years.

What are your thoughts, Era? Has science gone too far? Has it not gone far enough? Am I just being alarmist?
 

Terraforce

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
18,917
Yeah it's stunning how realistic they look. I'd be all for more options and whatnot. Catfishing will happen with or without this kind of application, so I don't think that should be taken into consideration much.
 

wenis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,113
as with every step in technology we never really think about the ramifications of releasing them into the wild and cannot conceive in the here and now in what ways they'll be manipulated and used for the better or worse of mankind. we've rarely ever thought of the potential of technology before building it. you aren't being alarmist, but there is very little we can collectively do.
 

Timbuktu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,234
Weren't the race swap filter withdrawn after a day or something? Deep fake videos had often been brought up as how it'll make fake news even worst. No one can trust anything they see.
 

ReAxion

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,882
i don't really think it's going to be that big of a problem. it takes far less to convince people of dangerous falsities. it's just another thing to account for.
 

icyflamez96

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,590
Idk some of this face stuff freaks me the fuck out. Whenever there are certain AI face threads I'm super curious, but try to keep my eyes away from too many of the pictures. It's fine when they look normal, but when they mess up and look weird and freaky in some way it is scarring. Like when op said how it sometimes mixes background objects with your face im like NOPE good thing I didn't look at that one!
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,789
I think the fact that people can have some fun is reason enough to have it. This is very different than needing hydrogen bombs "just in case" where the only possible use case is awful. Technology can and will be abused and people and society will have to evolve and make sense of what we create. Perhaps the pervasive fakeness of online leads to renewed interest in physical personal relations. Who knows?
 

Horp

Member
Nov 16, 2017
3,712
The new filter in snapchat is damn impressive. I look much much better as a woman :/ I guess it helps a bit that it also makes me look much younger.
 

Nothing Loud

Literally Cinderella
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,987
I did mine with the race and gender filter on FaceApp and it was stunning. It was very realistic and it made me consider what my life would be like if I was a different race. As you said though, the potential for abuse made it quickly disappear
 

BLEEN

Member
Oct 27, 2017
21,890
In every thread I always let people know, you will always be able to differentiate a doctored photo very easily if you even try; a browser add-on will be ubiquitous as uBlock O. There are websites to do it pretty much automatically currently. Video will be even easier.

For the rest of the people that don't give a shit to bother? IDK lol

I say? Bring it.
 
OP
OP
viciouskillersquirrel

viciouskillersquirrel

Cheering your loss
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,874
In every thread I always let people know, you will always be able to differentiate a doctored photo very easily if you even try; a browser add-on will be ubiquitous as uBlock O. There are websites to do it pretty much automatically currently. Video will be even easier.

For the rest of the people that don't give a shit to bother? IDK lol

I say? Bring it.
I didn't know about this, but all the same, people like your parents' generation aren't going to know that there are countermeasures and take this stuff at face value.
 

Aftermath

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,756
It's been used already on some dating online places, luckily I can see right through it due to the blur it gives & of course most dating sites you can report the users photos.

Unfortunately on some forums & sites such as Reddit you can see replies some people say how beautiful a person looks how they fancy & would like to meet them, of course there are hookup subreddits on there too, so yeah it's got catfishing going for it already, it's only a matter of time before something goes badly wrong there.

But there again catfishing has always existed prior to this, it's just one Celebes step further.
 

Deleted member 9932

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,711
faceapp has a few simple ones, like a smirk or sunglasses, that can be extremely hard to discern (if applied correctly) but the more radical ones the filter pattern tends to be recognizable. I even posted on some thread a few days ago how I saw a bunch of tinder profiles using a certain filter (which I didn't knew at the time was the female-snapchat one) and they all looked similar. The distinctiveness and uniqueness of our face is almost gone and substituted for more standardized features. But the tech is always catching up and it will only get better. Check this one out:
mwxK9kc.gif

Motion from a single image
The tech: https://arxiv.org/abs/1905.08233
 

Roo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,049
faceapp has a few simple ones, like a smirk or sunglasses, that can be extremely hard to discern (if applied correctly) but the more radical ones the filter pattern tends to be recognizable. I even posted on some thread a few days ago how I saw a bunch of tinder profiles using a certain filter (which I didn't knew at the time was the female-snapchat one) and they all looked similar. The distinctiveness and uniqueness of our face is almost gone and substituted for more standardized features. But the tech is always catching up and it will only get better. Check this one out:
mwxK9kc.gif

Motion from a single image
The tech: https://arxiv.org/abs/1905.08233
Reminds me of this for some reason.
a88uef.gif
 

Delphine

Fen'Harel Enansal
Administrator
Mar 30, 2018
3,658
France
This honestly frightens me, and also lowkey makes me regret ever putting my face on the internet in the first place.
 

Subpar Scrub

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,576
It's really spooky. Also to all of the guys who have done unholy things using the feminine Snapchat filter, dw boiz I absolve you of your crimes against God and these sins shan't bar you from entering the kingdom heaven any further. 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
 

DIE BART DIE

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,847
Yes, these sorts of video manipulation technologies we've seen being developed will absolutely be used to divide societies in the coming decades via fake news. Social media bubbles will only exacerbate the problem.

Combined with this "Photoshop for audio" technology, it's a recipe for dystopia.



Imagine being accused of a crime and there being audiovisual "proof" of your guilt. We need to start developing software that can somehow identify this content as fake.
 

Deleted member 44129

User requested account closure
Banned
May 29, 2018
7,690
Gender filters make me look so frumpy. Gutted. I definitely have that "I want to speak to the manager" look to me.
 

Anomander

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,469
The gender swap thing is already appearing on Tinder. The photos are kinda obvious at the moment.
 

apocat

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,061
Kinda bummed. Tried the filter and definitely would not bang me.

Good for you. I remember trying it out back when it was released, and was strangely attracted by my alternate self. It made me feel really weirded out.

Also, when I aged myself up a bit I looked quite a bit like my ageing father, which gave me a lasting dread about my own inevitable decay.
 

BadAlchemy

Member
May 2, 2019
226
The whole paranoia about "deepfakes" is interesting to me. I came up on the Internet in a time where there were no pictures. It was pretty liberating to me honestly, the ability to be who I said I was. Being able to express yourself in writing, particularly English language writing, was the important thing.

And a lot of us lied about ourselves, either to try and present ourselves in a better light, or, well, for power. I don't know, maybe the younger people felt like photo and video was an answer to that? The whole "pics or it didn't happen" thing?

I don't and didn't see it that way. The pics and videos people put up of themselves on the Internet are just another sort of artificial presentation. People are worried about a future where you can't trust that what you see on the Internet is real, but to my mind that's not the future of the Internet, that's the present.
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,862
Mount Airy, MD
The whole paranoia about "deepfakes" is interesting to me. I came up on the Internet in a time where there were no pictures. It was pretty liberating to me honestly, the ability to be who I said I was. Being able to express yourself in writing, particularly English language writing, was the important thing.

And a lot of us lied about ourselves, either to try and present ourselves in a better light, or, well, for power. I don't know, maybe the younger people felt like photo and video was an answer to that? The whole "pics or it didn't happen" thing?

I don't and didn't see it that way. The pics and videos people put up of themselves on the Internet are just another sort of artificial presentation. People are worried about a future where you can't trust that what you see on the Internet is real, but to my mind that's not the future of the Internet, that's the present.

Surely you can see the difference between using pictures to paint a more flattering picture of your life and DeepFakes used to say, make it look like you murdered someone.
 

BadAlchemy

Member
May 2, 2019
226
The present of the Internet I'm talking about isn't people making genderswapped pictures of themselves. When I talk about not being able to trust what you read on the Internet, I mean that someone can accuse a random pizza parlor of, say, being a front for a child abuse ring, and whether or not they have some sort of "deepfakes" to support that allegation, people will believe them. Not only that, at least some of those people will act on that belief. Snapchat filters aren't, in and of themselves, a problem.
 

ty_hot

Banned
Dec 14, 2017
7,176
In the next 5-10 years, with people using untraceable messaging, I am absolutely sure that the fake news will reach a whole new level. Deep fake videos that are impossible to identify being shared non stop and destroying reputations. This is going to be insane.
 
OP
OP
viciouskillersquirrel

viciouskillersquirrel

Cheering your loss
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,874
The present of the Internet I'm talking about isn't people making genderswapped pictures of themselves. When I talk about not being able to trust what you read on the Internet, I mean that someone can accuse a random pizza parlor of, say, being a front for a child abuse ring, and whether or not they have some sort of "deepfakes" to support that allegation, people will believe them. Not only that, at least some of those people will act on that belief. Snapchat filters aren't, in and of themselves, a problem.
This conspiracy theory was massively signal boosted by a state actor though. Imagine what they could have done with "video evidence" to back it up. All it would have taken would be to deepfake Hillary or John Podesta's faces onto some existing child abuse material and suddenly the rumour finds a whole new audience beyond gullible old white people.
 

BadAlchemy

Member
May 2, 2019
226
If you're asking me if I can imagine things getting worse, of course, things can always get worse. In practice I'm not really convinced it will make a qualitative difference in world political discourse. People who want to believe this sort of thing will and do believe it, no matter what the lack of evidence. People who don't want to believe these things won't, no matter what evidence is presented to them. There are very few truly "open-minded" people, and I'm not counting on their support anyway, because being "open-minded" in this day and age requires one to be utterly truth-agnostic.

Again this is something that already happens. Somebody does something awful and the people who aren't politically aligned with that person use them as an example of why that person's political beliefs are awful, and the people who are politically aligned with that person accuse them of being a "false flag" or a "crisis actor". The existence of "deep fakes", the best I can tell, will just provide a further excuse for people to dismiss the evidence of their own eyes - which they're already doing!
 

dyreschlock

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,094
Gifu, Japan
These deepfakes are getting pretty crazy. The more a celebrity or public figured is filmed and videos, the easier it becomes.

This Bill Hader + Arnold Schwarzenegger deep fake is nuts:
 

Herne

Member
Dec 10, 2017
5,319
It's amazing what can come out of it, though for some reason it's started putting beards on people when it didn't see the need to before. My sister tried it and ended up looking exactly like our father. My mother always said she had no idea who she looked like in the family - now she knows she looks like her brother (and therefore father). Scary how good it is.