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Jecht

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,650
where is your proof of this? show me this was said by him. I have listened to him since the IGN days of Podcast Beyond and he has never said that. He has denounced them repeatedly.
https://www.reddit.com/r/asianameri...n_moriarty_says_racismwhite_supremacy_doesnt/

I'm not providing any more. A simple Google search will pull up his extremely detailed history of being an alt right shithead and I'm not going to derail the thread due to your disingenuous crap.
 

Agent Orange

Alt-Account
Banned
Nov 2, 2018
73
He literally claimed white supremacy doesn't exist because some Asians have been successful. He's a racist, sexist alt right trash bag.

Era has a no Moriarty discussion policy because hes garbage. I suggest looking up any number of tweets hes put out with regards to similar discriminatory behavior towards all different groups of people.


Nice try. You aren't going to gaslight anyone here concerning snake boy.

That's a weird way to say "we don't like people who deny that white supremacy exists"

No, just racism and discrimination.

tenor.gif

His tweets. Nobody is buying your JAQing in this thread.

Like I said I don't want to derail this thread anymore. You have your opinions and I have mine. Let us leave it at this and enjoy the rest of the day.
 

excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
73,325
Can someone sum up what this is about and where the hate is coming from?

Dude defended JonTron's white nationalism as having useful things and trying on a different hat and something to learn from, he always pretends to be on the fence but he's clearly on the opposite side, he blamed Anita for Charlottesville, said gay marriage came too soon and was a mistake, said good things came from the Holocaust, said a woman getting sexually harassed by a MtG player was because Wizards of the Cpst forced diversity on its players and then proceeded to demand they unban the the sexual harasser (they didn't), and that's just the top hits.
 

jviggy43

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,184
No, just racism and discrimination.

tenor.gif

Always framed as "hating a difference of opinion" by the GGs and alt righters here. We don't hate you for your difference in opinion. Because yes, racism and sexism is a difference of opinion from most of us. We hate the racism and sexism itself, the content of those opinions. But gaslighting the situation in order to act like were a hive mentality is the default defense mechanism for that crowd.
 

FrostyLemon

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,635
This does not justify discrimination and discrimination does not require one to hate the group that they are actively discriminating against. Hating women is a sufficient yet wholly unnecessary component of gender discrimination.
.

The bolded is a response to a tiny and supplementary part of my comment. The rest of it is all I have to work with, so I guess I'll just say I disagree? But I feel I've put more effort in than you have.
 

excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
73,325
Really fucking weird year to be condemning the gaming industry as sleazier than the movie or music industries.
Its a problem that there aren't enough women in gaming, but its not as big a problem as if there were loads of women but they didn't get a fucking job without going to visit some producers hotelroom at 2am.

Let me expand, this shit absolute;y happens in gaming, but women are even less likely to feel safe speaking out in gaming... Look what started gamergate, women see that shit and stay dead silent.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,956
Discrimination can be the result of a subconscious bias that the perpetrator is not even aware of. It requires no more active malice than just being bigoted in general.
 

jviggy43

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,184
Can't wait to see Orange's position on that topic. Further I think if any thread warrants a brief hiatus on the no moriarty talk here, its this one which has now seemed to just encapsulate everything wrong with gaming culture and its many celebrities.
 

RedMercury

Blue Venus
Member
Dec 24, 2017
17,657
The bolded is a response to a tiny and supplementary part of my comment. The rest of it is all I have to work with, so I guess I'll just say I disagree? But I feel I've put more effort in than you have.
Discrimination takes many forms. Husbands discriminate against their wives for example, even though they love them. Mothers may participate in discrimination against their daughters, even though they love them. I recommend you spend a good amount of time doing some research on discrimination because you have shown very little understanding of how it can manifest and the effects it has on people and society.
 

jviggy43

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,184
The bolded is a response to a tiny and supplementary part of my comment. The rest of it is all I have to work with, so I guess I'll just say I disagree? But I feel I've put more effort in than you have.
Worrying about your chat spewing toxic messages can easily be mitigated by delaying chat and letting mods delete and pick out what violates the rules of your channel. So the argument that we can't relate to his lifestyle which justifies the discrimination doesn't fly for me. Because discrimination, especially against women and other minority groups (I specified this so we dont get into a discussion about the context of discrimination) is never justifiable. Saying he has reasons to perpetuate sexism does nothing to alleviate the act of sexism and discrimination.

The bolded part is short but gets right to the point. Youre trying to excuse his behavior because he doesnt hate women but that has NOTHING to do with the discrimination that hes perpetuating here. It doesn't require hatred, at all. All it requires is for him to exclude a group of people based on some category he believes they belong to, in this case being a woman. Neither argument justifies, mitigates, or diminishes that behavior.
 

Deleted member 12186

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,467
Dude defended JonTron's white nationalism as having useful things and trying on a different hat and something to learn from, he always pretends to be on the fence but he's clearly on the opposite side, he blamed Anita for Charlottesville, said gay marriage came too soon and was a mistake, said good things came from the Holocaust, said a woman getting sexually harassed by a MtG player was because Wizards of the Cpst forced diversity on its players and then proceeded to demand they unban the the sexual harasser (they didn't), and that's just the top hits.

It's been mentioned a few times but the basic gist is that he's trying to reconcile racism and anti-racism. What is the middle of these two viewpoints?

Holy **** that's something else. You never really know with people these days, I see their faces on youtube and they seem friendly enough on the surface only for some darkness seeping underneath. I saw his vids of the character and saw one about his weight loss but nothing indicating any of that.

And apologies for having you guys to repeat stuff, I didn't really look through the thread for someone else to answer and I usually just see people hate on him but without context as to why.

And I have no idea what the middle is between racist and anti-racist. 1% racist still seems like racist.
 

FrostyLemon

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,635
Discrimination takes many forms. Husbands discriminate against their wives for example, even though they love them. Mothers may participate in discrimination against their daughters, even though they love them. I recommend you spend a good amount of time doing some research on discrimination because you have shown very little understanding of how it can manifest and the effects it has on people and society.

I don't need to read an academic journal to have a discussion about discrimination on a video game message board, and passively mocking me rather than countering my points isn't impressive.
 

AlterOdin

Member
Nov 6, 2017
82
My opinion (maybe mention before in some capacity), Ninja kind of reminds me of a "modern time TV-pastor", IE playing the moral high ground, being the "nice guy", because he figured out to make a(lot! of) buck(s). While being a person of not so high standers as he portraits (in other words all an act).
It's almost insulting how bad he "acts" being the nice guy. No proof, just a subjective gut-feeling.
 

Baji Boxer

Chicken Chaser
Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,380
OK I lied, one more post. If anyone is toxic it is you for spreading lies about someone else. Colin isn't a racist sexist. Yeah, he made a sexist joke in poor taste, that doesn't make him a sexist person or chisel in stone that he is a sexist. It simply means that he said a sexist joke on twitter. If you go and listen to his podcasts he is clearly neither racist or sexist, but hey keeping pushing your agenda for Greg Miller cause that would be the only excuse for this garbage you are spreading.
I don't know anything about his current content, but he was certainly racist and sexist at the time he broke with Greg.
 

jviggy43

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,184
I don't need to read an academic journal to have a discussion about discrimination on a video game message board, and passively mocking me rather than countering my points isn't impressive.
Apparently you do because you think that in order to discriminate you need to hate the group youre discriminating against which isn't at all true of the definition. Its sufficient to constitute to it but not necessary.
 

RedMercury

Blue Venus
Member
Dec 24, 2017
17,657
I don't need to read an academic journal to have a discussion about discrimination on a video game message board, and passively mocking me rather than countering my points isn't impressive.
I'm not mocking you, I sincerely want you to have a better understanding of discrimination, because this:
Discrimination isn't always negative and depending on context in case be a good thing.
Is discrimination always wrong?
Is not okay.
 

Phendrana

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,062
Melbourne, Australia
Has Ninja done anything other than refuse to stream with women? It sucks that he feels the need to do that, but is that alone worthy of all of this hate? It doesn't appear that he's doing it for any malicious reasons. Even as someone who has never played Fortnite, I have heard about all the charity work he does. He doesn't seem comparable at all to previous 'toxic' nominees.
 

WadeIt0ut

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,985
Iowa
In Ninja's defense he has been an asshole since the Halo days. His reputation was that he kept bouncing around to different teams because people couldn't stand teaming with him. Games like Fortnite are great for him.
 

Baji Boxer

Chicken Chaser
Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,380
If streamers are the same as content creators, and raw numbers determine the winner, then he probably deserves the win. When I think of "content creators" I think of Easy Allies, Giant Bomb, etc. Where it isn't just "watch me play games".
 

pelicanUK

Banned
Oct 25, 2018
26
As others have said. Going for a certain demographic.

Not a fan of this award. The Game Awards should be about games and the talent behind them. Not someone sitting in their room all day/night streaming while they play a game - the talent behind this act is questionable.
 

RedMercury

Blue Venus
Member
Dec 24, 2017
17,657
Has Ninja done anything other than refuse to stream with women? It sucks that he feels the need to do that, but is that alone worthy of all of this hate? It doesn't appear that he's doing it for any malicious reasons. Even as someone who has never played Fortnite, I have heard about all the charity work he does. He doesn't seem comparable at all to previous 'toxic' nominees.
Yeah, when I have a daughter who loves games and watches some streamers and here is one of the biggest ones in the world telling people they outright refuse to stream with another human being based on their gender, that pisses me off. People like him should not be representatives of the hobby nor should they be recognized in a positive capacity when it can be avoided. I don't want my daughter having to deal with that sort of harmful garbage.

I mean, you can also add in saying the n-word when rapping to a song (that didn't even have the word in it) or screaming at children too.
If streamers are the same as content creators, and raw numbers determine the winner, then he probably deserves the win. When I think of "content creators" I think of Easy Allies, Giant Bomb, etc. Where it isn't just "watch me play games".
I agree, it's only like the base definition of the word.
 

FrostyLemon

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,635
Worrying about your chat spewing toxic messages can easily be mitigated by delaying chat and letting mods delete and pick out what violates the rules of your channel. So the argument that we can't relate to his lifestyle which justifies the discrimination doesn't fly for me. Because discrimination, especially against women and other minority groups (I specified this so we dont get into a discussion about the context of discrimination) is never justifiable. Saying he has reasons to perpetuate sexism does nothing to alleviate the act of sexism and discrimination.

The bolded part is short but gets right to the point. Youre trying to excuse his behavior because he doesnt hate women but that has NOTHING to do with the discrimination that hes perpetuating here. It doesn't require hatred, at all. All it requires is for him to exclude a group of people based on some category he believes they belong to, in this case being a woman. Neither argument justifies, mitigates, or diminishes that behavior.

And the rest? The harrassment offline, or in private messages, or people who spend hours of their time tracking down his personal details just to cause trouble?

I think it is in this case. I think the discrimination he is carrying out is going to have minimal affect on female streamers, (in fact a lot of them will agree with him) and not doing that would have massive consequences on his personal life and the well being of his family. You're asking him to kill his relationship for womens rights and he isn't a martyr.
 

jviggy43

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,184
Has Ninja done anything other than refuse to stream with women? It sucks that he feels the need to do that, but is that alone worthy of all of this hate? It doesn't appear that he's doing it for any malicious reasons. Even as someone who has never played Fortnite, I have heard about all the charity work he does. He doesn't seem comparable at all to previous 'toxic' nominees.
Is simply discriminating against women enough to warrant the backlash? Yes. Yes it is.
 
Oct 25, 2017
26,560
OK I lied, one more post. If anyone is toxic it is you for spreading lies about someone else. Colin isn't a racist sexist. Yeah, he made a sexist joke in poor taste, that doesn't make him a sexist person or chisel in stone that he is a sexist. It simply means that he said a sexist joke on twitter. If you go and listen to his podcasts he is clearly neither racist or sexist, but hey keeping pushing your agenda for Greg Miller cause that would be the only excuse for this garbage you are spreading.
Just though I'd poke my head in here for a second and ... HOW did we even get here?

Also, your boy has other fairly questionable tweets that have lead even more people to figure he's racist.
 

RedMercury

Blue Venus
Member
Dec 24, 2017
17,657
And the rest? The harrassment offline, or in private messages, or people who spend hours of their time tracking down his personal details just to cause trouble?
...Discrimination isn't the right solution. It's "a" solution, it seems like the easiest one he could think of.
I think the discrimination he is carrying out is going to have minimal affect on female streamers, (in fact a lot of them will agree with him)
How many? Do you have a chart? How many people agreeing with discrimination makes discrimination okay again?
You're asking him kill his relationship for womens rights and he isn't a martyr.
Get outta here with this, nobody is asking him to kill his relationship for "women's rights".
 

Vareon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,843
When channels like Mark Brown or Extra Credits got ignored in favor of game streamers, I can't take the awards seriously.
 

jviggy43

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,184
And the rest? The harrassment offline, or in private messages, or people who spend hours of their time tracking down his personal details just to cause trouble?

I think it is in this case. I think the discrimination he is carrying out is going to have minimal affect on female streamers, (in fact a lot of them will agree with him) and not doing that would have massive consequences on his personal life and the well being of his family. You're asking him kill his relationship for womens rights and he isn't a martyr.
Police can deal with this. If you dont want to subject yourself to this stop streaming. Its hard to feel sympathetic to someone beholden to racist and sexist communities, who earn their income from such people who dictate that you exclude and discriminate against groups of people in order to push those ideals. Further, bending to their threats and wishes only strengthens their position, legitimizes it, and shows that such behavior has a tangible effect on how you want your streaming personalities to behave.

With regards to his relationship, if youre in a relationship with someone who can't handle online minor interaction with another woman youre in a toxic relationship as it is. That gets into abusive territory if you feel you cant interact with people from other groups because of your significant other. No, I'm not asking for him to be a hero for women's rights, that would be above and beyond what is expected of him, which is, be a decent human being and dont exclude people because of their gender.
 

FrostyLemon

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,635
...Discrimination isn't the right solution. It's "a" solution, it seems like the easiest one he could think of.

How many? Do you have a chart? How many people agreeing with discrimination makes discrimination okay again?

Get outta here with this, nobody is asking him to kill his relationship for "women's rights".

So the other solutions? He seems to think that his relationship is pretty fragile, enough to not stream with women and open himself up to the internet as a sexist. Seems like a last resort if you ask me. Perhaps he does feel his relationship was close to ending? How can you know?
 

jviggy43

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,184
So the other solutions? He seems to think that his relationship is pretty fragile, enough to not stream with women and open himself up to the internet as a sexist. Seems like a last resort if you ask me. Perhaps he does feel his relationship was close to ending? How can you know?
Being in an unhealthy relationship doesn't justify discrimination.
 

RedMercury

Blue Venus
Member
Dec 24, 2017
17,657
I agree, it was a poor way to start a discussion.

Do you agree that these statements are wrong?

Discrimination isn't always negative and depending on context in case be a good thing.
Is discrimination always wrong?

So the other solutions? He seems to think that his relationship is pretty fragile, enough to not stream with women and open himself up to the internet as a sexist. Seems like a last resort if you ask me. Perhaps he does feel his relationship was close to ending? How can you know?

Call the police. Don't stream. Get into a relationship with someone who isn't fragile. End the relationship. Ask his girlfriend to visit a therapist. Beef up his cybersecurity. Just off the top of my head.
 

FrostyLemon

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,635
Police can deal with this. If you dont want to subject yourself to this stop streaming. Its hard to feel sympathetic to someone beholden to racist and sexist communities, who earn their income from such people who dictate that you exclude and discriminate against groups of people in order to push those ideals. Further, bending to their threats and wishes only strengthens their position, legitimizes it, and shows that such behavior has a tangible effect on how you want your streaming personalities to behave.

With regards to his relationship, if youre in a relationship with someone who can't handle online minor interaction with another woman youre in a toxic relationship as it is. That gets into abusive territory if you feel you cant interact with people from other groups because of your significant other. No, I'm not asking for him to be a hero for women's rights, that would be above and beyond what is expected of him, which is, be a decent human being and dont exclude people because of their gender.

But can they really?

Asking him to quit his job is a bit extreme as well. That's his main source of income.

I understand what you are saying about bending to the pressure, but it's very easy to say that when you're an anonymous internet user. He has millions of people interacting with him on a daily basis. Living in America too is a nightmare, because you don't know when someone is going to shoot at your windows whilst your streaming, or walk into a pizza place and shoot you whilst you're playing a game, or send the police over to your house and say you're a gunman on the loose and get shot on your doorstep. It's fucking nuts to be honest.

As for his relationship, not everyone realises they are in a toxic one. He may very well be, but I think he has to do what's right for him. I have guy and girl friends who don't hang out with the opposite sex. They think it always starts with some kind of sexual attraction. Who am I to judge?
 

Baji Boxer

Chicken Chaser
Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,380
So the other solutions? He seems to think that his relationship is pretty fragile, enough to not stream with women and open himself up to the internet as a sexist. Seems like a last resort if you ask me. Perhaps he does feel his relationship was close to ending? How can you know?
Whatever his personal life problems are, it doesn't really factor into whether he's deserving of an award. Doesn't make what he does any better or worse.
 

Zips

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,913
I feel like Geoff and whomever else working on these awards knows the stigma that came with the "Trending Gamer" award given past years' winners (Greg Miller being the only exception). This is apparent given how they went ahead and re-branded it to this new title. But man, maybe just ditch that whole award completely already?