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Geoff, we need to have a serious talk about the "Content Creator" award.

Benita

Banned
Member
Aug 27, 2018
862
User Banned (2 Weeks): Downplaying discrimination, Pattern of dismissing concerns in sensitive topics, Accumulated infractions
Why are people throwing around the word discrimination like this dude is denying people employment opportunities or refusing to serve them in a store.

Isnt he just choosing who plays games with? If someone doesnt want to play with women or minorities because they dont like them, yeah that person is an asshole. But if you take what he says at face value and it impacts his family then I dont see why picking and choosing which videogame invites he accepts is discrimination.

If I turn down an invite from a female colleague to go out for a drink after work, that's not discrimination.
 
Dec 24, 2017
5,163
I feel you are labelling his entire fan base with this and it's not fair. It's not like he's bending to the will of his extremist cult following. (EDIT) He is having to take the situation into his own hands and it's certainly flawed, but the other solutions just seem to be worse for him personally.
 
Oct 28, 2017
8,295
I feel you are labelling his entire fan base with this and it's not fair. It's not like he's bending to the will of his extremist cult following. (EDIT) He is having to take the situation into his own hands and it's certainly flawed, but the other solutions just seem to be worse for him personally.

I bet it's a lot higher for streamers, and that's just the most extreme events. They will always be in the back of his mind, and the general harassment is probably constant.

I didn't see anything about his wife/gf saying she didn't care, but I imagine that's probably to stop the internet blaming her and asking her to go therapy.
Ive said nothing about the number of fans that are like this, only that this profession invites that behavior regardless of what youre doing (IE your house getting shot at despite not discriminating against women). If youre that concerned about such a possibility you would switch professions. Instead, he elected to remain here for the money while continuing to put his family at risk, as you put it.

But honestly thats entertaining the notion hes concerned for his family's well being when his reasoning for this had nothing to do with the safety of anyone. It was merely to prevent gossip. So the safety concerns are a moot point, even if as I said, still do not justify discrimination even if they were legitimate.

Someone posted an article from polygon evidencing it but I havent sat down and read it yet. The reason he originally said he did this was to avoid gossip, which is an incredibly tenuous justification for outright discrimination.

Why are people throwing around the word discrimination like this dude is denying people employment opportunities or refusing to serve them in a store.

Isnt he just choosing who plays games with? If someone doesnt want to play with women or minorities because they dont like them, yeah that person is an asshole. But if you take what he says at face value and it impacts his family then I dont see why picking and choosing which videogame invites he accepts is discrimination.
Discrimination: the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people or things, especially on the grounds of race, age, or sex.

He also didn't say anything about his family. Its about avoiding gossip.

IE "I will not play games with women because I want to avoid gossip" is prejudice against a group of people based on sex, otherwise known as, discrimination.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,734
Why are people throwing around the word discrimination like this dude is denying people employment opportunities or refusing to serve them in a store.

Isnt he just choosing who plays games with? If someone doesnt want to play with women or minorities because they dont like them, yeah that person is an asshole. But if you take what he says at face value and it impacts his family then I dont see why picking and choosing which videogame invites he accepts is discrimination.
If he said that playing games with black people is hurting his family, would that not be discriminatory? Or bigoted?
 
Dec 24, 2017
5,163
Why are people throwing around the word discrimination like this dude is denying people employment opportunities or refusing to serve them in a store.
Seriously? You really don't believe "I refuse to stream with people of a certain gender" is not discrimination? Actually, I am not surprised.
 
Oct 28, 2017
1,349
What is more important to you, a video game streamers career or ending discrimination? Is he essential personnel or something? Should he keep his career if it perpetuates discrimination? Yeah, it might be comparitively harder, but doing the right thing is not always the easy thing.



Do you agree that these statements are wrong?

It doesn't matter what I think, I'm just trying to empathise with his position and I have no idea what it's like. I can only imagine how toxic it is by comparing it to my experience with the toxicity I find in message boards and comment sections. It's disgusting. Yeah he's doing what's best for him at the expense of other people, but sometimes thats ok. If it's not ok then he will soon be getting a knock on the door by the police and then you can tell me how wrong I am.

Yes to use it in this conversation, it was wrong.
 

Benita

Banned
Member
Aug 27, 2018
862
If he said that playing games with black people is hurting his family, would that not be discriminatory? Or bigoted?
Well that's a strawman but if playing with black people resulted in his family being harassed, then that would be a supremely fucked situation, and the people doing the harassing are clearly bigoted assholes, but I wouldn't blame him for choosing not to.

We're not talking about a law enforcement officer or publically elected official here. It's a guy playing videogames. Hes not obligated to play with everyone. Though if you want to judge him for that, its totally understandable.
 
Why are people throwing around the word discrimination like this dude is denying people employment opportunities or refusing to serve them in a store.

Isnt he just choosing who plays games with? If someone doesnt want to play with women or minorities because they dont like them, yeah that person is an asshole. But if you take what he says at face value and it impacts his family then I dont see why picking and choosing which videogame invites he accepts is discrimination.

If I turn down an invite from a female colleague to go out for a drink after work, that's not discrimination.
Lmao

Benita gonna Benita
 
Oct 28, 2017
1,349
Ive said nothing about the number of fans that are like this, only that this profession invites that behavior regardless of what youre doing (IE your house getting shot at despite not discriminating against women). If youre that concerned about such a possibility you would switch professions. Instead, he elected to remain here for the money while continuing to put his family at risk, as you put it.

But honestly thats entertaining the notion hes concerned for his family's well being when his reasoning for this had nothing to do with the safety of anyone. It was merely to prevent gossip. So the safety concerns are a moot point, even if as I said, still do not justify discrimination even if they were legitimate.

Someone posted an article from polygon evidencing it but I havent sat down and read it yet. The reason he originally said he did this was to avoid gossip, which is an incredibly tenuous justification for outright discrimination.
True

Well you don't know what issues the gossip is causing, it could be having an affect on his wife's mental health. Or his mental health. That's a safety concern.

See I believe it doesn't make discrimination right, but in this case it does make it justified because the negative effects on his personal life outweigh the negative effects on society. I have no proof of course, but I choose to believe what he says about his relationship being at risk.
 
Dec 24, 2017
5,163
Well you don't know what issues the gossip is causing, it could be having an affect on his wife's mental health. Or his mental health. That's a safety concern.
Right, so they should get professional help if that is the case.
See I believe it doesn't make discrimination right, but in this case it does make it justified
How long is this shit going to be allowed to continue
 
Oct 30, 2017
2,045
If Ninja never played with women, but never provided a justification for it (not a better one, just not one at all), would people still be mad at him?
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,734
Well that's a strawman but if playing with black people resulted in his family being harassed, then that would be a supremely fucked situation, and the people doing the harassing are clearly bigoted assholes, but I wouldn't blame him for choosing not to.

We're not talking about a law enforcement officer or publically elected official here. It's a guy playing videogames. Hes not obligated to play with everyone. Though if you want to judge him for that, its totally understandable.
No one is forcing him to play with women, we're telling people like Geoff not to promote people who have gender biases.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,371
I rather VGA gives it to channels which actually provides insightful content. Channels like Mike Brown, Super Bunnyhop, Did you know, etc.
 

Benita

Banned
Member
Aug 27, 2018
862
How long is this shit going to be allowed to continue
What are you talking about?

Discrimination is gross and unacceptable and thankfully its legislated against in many instances.

Choosing not to play a video game with a person because it will result in your family being attacked is simply not an example of it.

The shitheels harassing his wife are the ones you should be directing your ire towards.
 

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,730
His argument wasn't even about toxicity, it was that people start "shipping" rumours over him and those women. And this bothers him. But it doesn't even bother his wife. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
https://www.polygon.com/2018/8/11/17675738/ninja-twitch-female-gamers



Somehow the narrative got twisted about Ninja just being overprotective of women from harassment and toxicity, presumably to make him seem like the good guy (it'd still be lame because he'd be throwing women under the bus instead of, you know, using his influence and wealth to reign him his shitty fans), but it's not even the reason he chose to exclude women. It was literally because he wanted to avoid "gossip".
Thanks for this. I don't know much about Ninja specifically aside from having vaguely heard about this. I can understand trying to be considerate for your spouse's feelings, and I thought this was just an over-the-top attempt at that - I've never heard of a healthy relationship with someone who is jealous from their partner just being around someone.

But if his wife doesn't care and it's just to prevent shipping, it seems pretty silly. And it's not like shipping goes away if you only have men in the room. The only YouTube people I really watch are Retsupurae, and I've seen Slowbeef's wife laughing at the idea of homoerotic Slowbeef/Diabetus fanfiction.
 
Last edited:

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,730
This does not justify discrimination and discrimination does not require one to hate the group that they are actively discriminating against. Hating women is a sufficient yet wholly unnecessary component of gender discrimination.
The bolded is a response to a tiny and supplementary part of my comment. The rest of it is all I have to work with, so I guess I'll just say I disagree? But I feel I've put more effort in than you have.
I'm kind of feeling like this is the "they can't be racist because there is no hatred" thing reaching a new level.
 
Oct 28, 2017
5,726
What are you talking about?

Discrimination is gross and unacceptable and thankfully its legislated against in many instances.

Choosing not to play a video game with a person because it will result in your family being attacked is simply not an example of it.

The shitheels harassing his wife are the ones you should be directing your ire towards.
Gaming is about the only industry I have ever genuinely heard people defending excluding half of the world's population being a valid position.

Not saying I'm surprised though.
 

Leek

Banned
Member
Oct 25, 2017
732
That's easy for you to say. He's made this decision to put his family first.

I noticed you said you had a daughter on the previous page. Hypothetically, if you were in Ninja's position, would you invite female streamers onto your show if it meant your daughter would be contacted by random people about it, maybe even harassed by them? Would you be willing to risk subjecting her to that if it meant doing what you believed was right, or would you try to avoid that if it wasn't necessary?

Ninja is just a person like any of us, and he's trying to do right by his family. I'm sure people can relate to that. He's not just a vessel for your views or change in the industry. He's a normal human before all of that, and he has to put up with the worst sort of behaviour by having a job in the spotlight.
 
Oct 28, 2017
8,295
That's easy for you to say. He's made this decision to put his family first.

I noticed you said you had a daughter on the previous page. Hypothetically, if you were in Ninja's position, would you invite female streamers onto your show if it meant your daughter would be contacted by random people about it, maybe even harassed by them? Would you be willing to risk subjecting her to that if it meant doing what you believed was right, or would you try to avoid that if it wasn't necessary?

Ninja is just a person like any of us, and he's trying to do right by his family. I'm sure people can relate to that. He's not just a vessel for your views or change in the industry. He's a normal human before all of that, and he has to put up with the worst sort of behaviour by having a job in the spotlight.
Not a family issue, please stop gaslighting why he discriminates (and even if it was it doesn't justify it).

Twitch’s biggest streamer, Tyler “Ninja” Blevins, doesn’t stream with women. He’s spoken about his decision before, explaining that “it’s just not worth it” to face the potential drama and rumors that might occur as a result. Last week, he echoed that sentiment again to The Verge’s sister site Polygon. “If I have one conversation with one female streamer where we’re playing with one another, and even if there’s a hint of flirting, that is going to be taken and going to be put on every single video and be clickbait forever,” he said.
https://www.theverge.com/2018/8/14/17688392/ninja-fortnite-women-streaming-harassment
 

Benita

Banned
Member
Aug 27, 2018
862
Gaming is about the only industry I have ever genuinely heard people defending excluding half of the world's population being a valid position.

Not saying I'm surprised though.
He's not excluding women from the gaming industry.

He as an individual is choosing not to play a game with them.

I'm not saying the marginalisation of women in gaming isnt an issue - it clearly is - but him making this personal decision isnt it.
 
Dec 24, 2017
5,163
I noticed you said you had a daughter on the previous page. Hypothetically, if you were in Ninja's position, would you invite female streamers onto your show if it meant your daughter would be contacted by random people about it, maybe even harassed by them? Would you be willing to risk subjecting her to that if it meant doing what you believed was right, or would you try to avoid that if it wasn't necessary?
I would not willfully engage in discrimination against women under any circumstance, no hypothetical needed.
The shitheels harassing his wife are the ones you should be directing your ire towards.
Okay, I denounce them as well obviously, but I also have plenty of ire towards people like yourself and others who seek to downplay and dismiss discrimination by statements such as:
Discrimination isn't always negative and depending on context in case be a good thing.
Is discrimination always wrong?
Why are people throwing around the word discrimination like this dude is denying people employment opportunities or refusing to serve them in a store.

Isnt he just choosing who plays games with?
 
Oct 28, 2017
5,726
He's not excluding women from the gaming industry.

He as an individual is choosing not to play a game with them.

I'm not saying the marginalisation of women in gaming isnt an issue - it clearly is - but him making this personal decision isnt it.
He is the most popular streamer on the planet openly justifying that through no fault of their own, he will exclude women from his streams, exposure and chances to grow because he may get what literally every famous person gets. He is normalizing the idea that its okay to exclude women from the hobby because of "X, Y, Z" reason instead of coming out and confronting those reasons. And the basis is that he doesn't like people shipping him while his wife literally does not care.

I'm sorry but open your eyes.
 

Leek

Banned
Member
Oct 25, 2017
732
I would not willfully engage in discrimination against women under any circumstance, no hypothetical needed.
Well good on you for being honest about that. Personally I wouldn't want to force something like online threats and harassment on my loved ones, so I can understand Ninja's reasoning for this.
 
Nov 7, 2017
6,237
Yeah it's terrible how homophobic kids are these days.
I didn’t hear what the kid said, just the adult man throwing a tantrum

Well good on you for being honest about that. Personally I wouldn't want to force something like online threats and harassment on my loved ones, so I can understand Ninja's reasoning for this.
Maybe he should wonder why his content attracts such a shitty audience instead?
 
Oct 25, 2017
8,800
Long Island
The man doesn't want his wife reading shit, even if it's false it's still not something you want to come across.

Even with him saying "she has nothing to do with this" sounds like a man that doesn't want to drag his wife into it.

As far as why doesn't he risk losing followers by going on a soapbox and doing what a bunch of people on a forum want? Dude is not an idiot he knows he won't be hot forever and he is going to make as much money as possible and I don't blame him.

No one here has 5 million people following them. So no one here could relate to anything going on in this kids head.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,705
Well good on you for being honest about that. Personally I wouldn't want to force something like online threats and harassment on my loved ones, so I can understand Ninja's reasoning for this.
The sheer size of his self-admitted trash audience means that probably happens already and they already take measures to isolate themselves from it. Even the lowest YouTube celebs have to do this already, much less this millionaire.

And that isn't even his argument anyway, that's just some shit ya'll made up.
 
Oct 25, 2017
320
I'm glad I don't follow this type of stuff, but wow that video in the OP really shows me that I'm not missing anything. A person acting like that shouldn't be watched.
 
Dec 24, 2017
5,163
Well good on you for being honest about that. Personally I wouldn't want to force something like online threats and harassment on my loved ones, so I can understand Ninja's reasoning for this.
I deal with this constantly as a matter of fact, I've gotten more online threats than I can count against myself, my family, and my pets. I'm not a stranger to the situation he finds himself in. What I would not do is teach or be an example to my daughter to abandon her moral compass and what she knows is right to engage in discrimination for the sake of protection when there are other options available, even and especially if those options are hard or inconvenient.
 
Oct 25, 2017
126
Well that's a strawman but if playing with black people resulted in his family being harassed, then that would be a supremely fucked situation, and the people doing the harassing are clearly bigoted assholes, but I wouldn't blame him for choosing not to.

We're not talking about a law enforcement officer or publically elected official here. It's a guy playing videogames. Hes not obligated to play with everyone. Though if you want to judge him for that, its totally understandable.
It is just "a guy ..." that has millions of views, a lot of publicity, reach, money and influence on his audience "... playing videogames". Don't be this thick.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,655
resetera is probably the most progressive place to talk about video games on the entire internet, and people here are still trying so hard to justify excluding women from a stream just because they're women. just think about that. video game fandom is absolutely rotten.
 
Oct 30, 2017
1,786
Canada
I love the dual implications that A) Ninja is very important because he has a ton of followers and B) a sizeable enough portion of those followers are absolute catty morons who immediately speculate that he's sleeping with any woman who comes within three feet of him, and he's terrified of offending them.

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