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George RR Martin discusses creative differences with HBO over Game of Thrones

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"I don't mind being part of a team... but there's something in me that wants to be the captain of the team," he admitted.

"When you're writing short stories and novels, yes you may have editors and all that, but essentially the writer is king. The writer decides how everything is going to be; people can give suggestions, and you can say yes or no to them."

"Now, when you get involved in television and film, um... you're working with a large team."
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"But it can also be... traumatic. Because sometimes their creative vision and your creative vision don't match, and you get the famous creative differences thing — that leads to a lot of conflict."
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One off hand example he uses are characters who are insignificant in the books, but have been played up in the show because they're popular with the viewers. I wonder if creative deviations in the show from the books are limited to smaller scale things like that, or if some of the broader strokes also vary.
 
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gcubed

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I mean, that's every book vs movie/TV show though. I'm sure they will always have differences and I'm also sure that most authors aren't capable of seeing what makes "interesting" (=more viewers) pieces for a visual medium versus a book.

I think some can go too far but I also think that most books aren't set up to be (nor should they be because they would probably be terrible reads) perfectly adaptable to the screen.
 
Ratrat

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gcubed said:
I mean, that's every book vs movie/TV show though. I'm sure they will always have differences and I'm also sure that most authors aren't capable of seeing what makes "interesting" (=more viewers) pieces for a visual medium versus a book.

I think some can go too far but I also think that most books aren't set up to be (nor should they be because they would probably be terrible reads) perfectly adaptable to the screen.
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Martin was a tv writer before Ice and fire.
 

Kahoots

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Books will be nothing like the show, people who think otherwise have a terrible grasp of the books.
 

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I really wonder what he thinks about the way they butchered the show after they ran out of his material, would be interesting to hear him speak about that later down the line. He can't be happy about that.

At least the "creative differences" were not that bad when they still had his source material. Hell, they even made some very nice additions like the Tywin Arya stuff.
 
Byakuya769

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May said:
I really wonder what he thinks about the way they butchered the show after they ran out of his material, would be interesting to hear him speak about that later down the line. He can't be happy about that.

At least the "creative differences" were not that bad when they still had his source material. Hell, they even made some very nice additions like the Tywin Arya stuff.
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His fault.
 
Volimar

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I don't envy Martin his task now. So many people want so desperately for him to "fix" what they see as problems with the show. If it turns out that his vision for the end isn't that different I think a lot of people will feel disappointed.
 
duckroll

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This is entire thread is fake news. Really disappointed in Phantom Thief here. The video is a general interview with GRRM about the creative process. He is talking about collaboration on TV and film in general, NOT about him working on GoT the HBO show. He doesn't talk about Bronn, he doesn't talk about creative differences on the show, he is talking about writers working on film and TV.
 
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duckroll said:
This is entire thread is fake news. Really disappointed in Phantom Thief here. The video is a general interview with GRRM about the creative process. He is talking about collaboration on TV and film in general, NOT about him working on GoT the HBO show. He doesn't talk about Bronn, he doesn't talk about creative differences on the show, he is talking about writers working on film and TV.
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https://toofab.com/2019/04/30/did-g...thrones-spoiler-while-talking-about-avengers/

?
"And then you get totally extraneous things like the studio or the network weighing in, and they have some particular thing that has nothing to do with story, but relates to "Well this character has a very high Q Rating so let's give him a lot more stuff to do (the video cuts to a montage of Jermome Flynn's Bronn here) even though he's a rather unimportant character'."
 
Br3wnor

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Phantom Thief said:
I can only hope the Others threat is handled better in the books than the White Walkers were on the show.
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If it doesn't motivate him to finish the books, nothing will. (UNLESS THE SHOW TOOK HIS LEAD) w/ the WW saga, he now has an opportunity to give his version of events that can bring satisfaction the show was unable to. Of course he might have written himself into a box and there's no good way to end it in the books either, but he at least has an opportunity to try if he wants it.
 
Tigress

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May said:
I really wonder what he thinks about the way they butchered the show after they ran out of his material, would be interesting to hear him speak about that later down the line. He can't be happy about that.

At least the "creative differences" were not that bad when they still had his source material. Hell, they even made some very nice additions like the Tywin Arya stuff.
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Well, when he hadn't written the books and they could not delay it til he had, what did he expect? I could have sworn though he had told them how he planned it to end.
 
this_guy

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In the books all we know about Hardhome is something bad happened. In the show Hardhome was holy crap amaze balls.
 
SteveWinwood

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Phantom Thief said:
https://toofab.com/2019/04/30/did-g...thrones-spoiler-while-talking-about-avengers/

?
"And then you get totally extraneous things like the studio or the network weighing in, and they have some particular thing that has nothing to do with story, but relates to "Well this character has a very high Q Rating so let's give him a lot more stuff to do (the video cuts to a montage of Jermome Flynn's Bronn here) even though he's a rather unimportant character'."
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yes did he make the video? that's the video guys interpretation of what he was saying. he doesn't say anything about bronn
 
duckroll

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Phantom Thief said:
https://toofab.com/2019/04/30/did-g...thrones-spoiler-while-talking-about-avengers/

?
"And then you get totally extraneous things like the studio or the network weighing in, and they have some particular thing that has nothing to do with story, but relates to "Well this character has a very high Q Rating so let's give him a lot more stuff to do (the video cuts to a montage of Jermome Flynn's Bronn here) even though he's a rather unimportant character'."
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Do you think GRRM edited the video? Really now. This is like a case of people trying to extrapolate what he says in response to a general question of how working on TV and film is different than writing short stories and novels, into some drama about him talking shit about GoT. Again, I'm not surprised people are falling for this because everyone just wants to feel validated about their own opinions while taking things out of context, so whatever. Just ignore me and carry on bitching.
 
DonaldKimball

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Why did he only give them an outline if he cares so much about it? Just give them exact plot points so they don't butcher the whole thing.

At this point I believe the books will be totally different from the tv show. More than they were before.
 
OP
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duckroll said:
Do you think GRRM edited the video? Really now. This is like a case of people trying to extrapolate what he says in response to a general question of how working on TV and film is different than writing short stories and novels, into some drama about him talking shit about GoT. Again, I'm not surprised people are falling for this because everyone just wants to feel validated about their own opinions while taking things out of context, so whatever. Just ignore me and carry on bitching.
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I'm just going by what the article posted, and Bronn is famously a character Martin has discussed being irrelevant in the books before as well, it's not unbelievable that he is referring to him again.
But just ignore me and carry on making sweeping accusations.
 
Neudd

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vogelkacke said:
Why did he only give them an outline if he cares so much about it? Just give them exact plot points so they don't butcher the whole thing.
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from EW in March

The showrunners note that they're not entirely sure of Martin's future storylines anyway ("George discovers a lot of stuff while he's writing," Benioff says). But more surprising is that Martin is likewise somewhat in the dark on the show's ending. "I haven't read the [final-season] scripts and haven't been able to visit the set because I've been working on Winds," Martin reveals. "I know some of the things. But there's a lot of minor-character [arcs] they'll be coming up with on their own. And, of course, they passed me several years ago. There may be important discrepancies."
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FaceHugger

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Tigress said:
Well, when he hadn't written the books and they could not delay it til he had, what did he expect? I could have sworn though he had told them how he planned it to end.
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Yea, if this bothers him there's no one to blame but himself. He spent eight years not writing the book most people wanted, instead editing stuff most of his fans don't care about / doesn't even knows exists, going to cons, working on a fake history book, developing more TV, and at least one good thing: producing a Dunk and Egg anthology.
 
gutshot

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Phantom Thief said:
I'm just going by what the article posted, and Bronn is famously a character Martin has discussed being irrelevant in the books before as well, it's not unbelievable that he is referring to him again.
But just ignore me and carry on making sweeping accusations.
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He has also said that certain characters which were minor in the books actually became much better in the show when they gave them more screen time. He's cited Osha as one who he ended up liking better in the show than in his own books. The knife cuts both ways here.

George understands the TV business and, while I'm sure he would have done things differently had he been showrunner, he realizes that D&D are going to execute their vision of the story and the audience can appreciate it for what it is.
 
Lump

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GRRM could've strong-armed HBO anytime he wanted by finishing the books. There's no better play than that.
 
captive

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Phantom Thief said:


One off hand example he uses are characters who are insignificant in the books, but have been played up in the show because they're popular with the viewers. I wonder if creative deviations in the show from the books are limited to smaller scale things like that, or if some of the broader strokes also vary.
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im trying to think of "insigifcant book characters" that are played up in the show because they're popular with viewers.
 
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gutshot said:
He has also said that certain characters which were minor in the books actually became much better in the show when they gave them more screen time. He's cited Osha as one who he ended up liking better in the show than in his own books. The knife cuts both ways here.

George understands the TV business and, while I'm sure he would have done things differently had he been showrunner, he realizes that D&D are going to execute their vision of the story and the audience can appreciate it for what it is.
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I have appreciated most changes the show makes from the books, mind you. I loved the Arya Tywin stuff, I loved the trimming of the fat, on the whole I think the show has done well.
 
Hollywood Duo

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It's one thing if you want to make an artistic intergrity argument but D&D's job is to make the show as popular as possible, and they've succeeded overwhelmingly. I don't see any way the show could be more popular than it already is. Any dumb stuff is kind of secondary from the perspective of the showrunners.
Fury451 said:
I bet his plans for the White Walkers was very different
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We'll never find out
 
Begaria

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If only there was some way for him to be captain of his writing direction again.

If only.
 
MisterR

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Volimar said:
I don't envy Martin his task now. So many people want so desperately for him to "fix" what they see as problems with the show. If it turns out that his vision for the end isn't that different I think a lot of people will feel disappointed.
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Even if the same things basically happen, they will be much better because the depth and setup will be much more detailed. That said, the battle for Winterfell will be a lot different than in the show. That was all D & D.
 
LegendofJoe

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The amount of bitterness the book series and the show generates is a wonder to behold. At the end of the day though the person most responsible for that is Martin himself. He pulled the rug out from underneath everyone by taking so long to finish the job.

That said it's important to put things in perspective. The first 3 books and the seasons of the show based on them were A++++ entertainment. So be grateful for that and acknowledge that it's a shame the rest didn't come together nearly as well. It's foolish to dwell on something you have no control over.
 
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Rental

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He not fixing anything with these books and will play it safe and it's all going to turn out similar to the show.

This is all on him as well. Just do the work and get something out. The books were the main story; however the remaining books will now be just looked at as secondary. No mystery or surprises like in previous reads. Sure locations and some things may slightly differ but I'm not expecting extreme changes.
 
McScroggz

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I get it, but there are examples of smaller characters from the books being made better on the show.
 
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