German rock band Rammstein sparks outrage over Nazi camp video
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Rammstein making piss poor attempts at being provocative is also nothing new.
Non-Jewish people have no business wearing symbols of our oppression.
Non-Jewish people have no business wearing symbols of our oppression.
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No, their music and shows are legit good
They should leave controversial imagery to Laibach, who use it in smarter and more creative ways
Yes, indeed. Very disappointing from them.
In case somebody does not know, Rammstein does not believe in right wing politics. They identify themselves as leftist, or neutral left. Their song Links 1 2 3 4 is their way of telling everyone who Rammstein really are.
That said, why the fuck would they do such a video, especially in the current context?
Unless the band themselves are Nazis or message is somehow being objectively pro-Nazi this just looks like another moral panic over music/art.
It's promotion for their new single. They are instrumentalizing it as a marketing ploy, that's what the Zentralrat der Juden in Deutschland has a problem with.
Oh, I didn't mean that their music wasn't good, in fact I really like their music, I just mean that they have been doing this for like 20 years.
We'll have to see it in the context of the full video, but I imagine they're doing it from a critical point of view. I mean, the song is called "Deutschland", and the holocaust is a big part of their history, so if done tastefully, I don't see anything wrong with using holocaust imagery in a music video
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Is it ok to say the N-word if I'm not actually racist?
Probably making a statement about the rise of the right worldwide, and this is a way to remind people of the consequences of that. But I'm just speculating
The actual video isn’t even out yet.
Also controversy is their thing.
Can’t wait to see/hear it. Their videos are always pretty incredible, too.
And yeah probably this. Leaks suggest it’s a song really torn about German history.
Also controversy is their thing.
Can’t wait to see/hear it. Their videos are always pretty incredible, too.
I love them but the song better be damning, because half my family didn’t get murdered for a marketing stunt and a weak message. The full thing better do it justice.
Sure, society will largely be fine with it if it's a black person in music.
Just like many of us will be absolutely fine with this if the context/intent is what it is - https://www.resetera.com/threads/french-rapper-investigated-for-call-to-hang-white-people.71646/
I've been here and seen it all with moral panics with music. I've also seen how some are like slippery eels depending on the music/artist involved, instead of having a spine and remaining consistent with freedom of expression with art/music as long as context/intent can be deciphered.
I’m sure Rammstein knows what they are doing. They just don’t give any fucks so don’t expect apologies or the video being taken down.
I can't imagine it being anything but damning, tbh. Curious already, so the marketing obviously works.. Hope they don't disappoint
Yeah I don’t think that’s the point.
If a white American band wanted to criticize the confederacy, wearing blackface and chains wouldn’t be the ideal way to do it.
Well, one could argue that trivializing and monetizing the holocaust started way back with the first Hollywood movies. I remember Schindlers List being heavily criticised for this back in the day.
It is not about glorification. This is about non-Jewish German men wearing symbols of Jewish suffering in a video to promote their music.
It would be a complete 180 for them to glorify it. I doubt that's what's going on here.
Being German, the actual band name is already really tasteless so I'd never be surprised by anything they're up to.
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But why wait for any context/intent to become clear? I must interject my own perceived context/intent into everything the second I read a headline by letting everyone know how outraged I am about something I filled in the blanks for.
Modern-day discourse. Facts/intent/context does not matter when I need to win an argument/get attention when the "news is hot".
Your dislike of provocative content being used within a greater intent/context is not a right for you to simply make shit up. It's a life lesson for you to be an adult and handle your own offence taking/tastes in media/art... like an adult.
Your feelings may be valid to you, and maybe even worth others listening to, but no one else has to respect you telling lies, deceiving, manipulating or being hypocritical. Speak factually, not with dishonesty or with an agenda.
Been here, seen it all with soo much music, where artistic freedom is thrown under a bus because people can't handle the fact there can be a degree of uncomfortable or boundary-pushing expression used. The meaningful stuff is often attempted with a serious message/intent or understandable context. Best to wait and see what this whole video/song is about.
None of them are practicing (as far as fans know), but Lindemann is a Jewish name and I’ve heard a few times his mother was Jewish. Not much is known about the band but other have had the some speculation about them, too. Richard has a Jewish wedding ceremony when he married a Jewish woman.
Not that these things necessarily make whatever they’re doing. We don’t really know.
It’s also hard to characterize it because is it used to promote just “music” or are they making an artistic statement? Music is art. Music videos are art.
I think they are just trying to show history, i don't understand what them being non-Jewish has to do with it.
So how did you want this to be solved...
should they hire people of the Jewish faith?
should they have a mix different people who where generally put to the deathcamps back then? (maybe they actually do this)
should they remove historical details? (maybe they actually do this)
should everyone just stay away from the subject in general?
Till Lindemann's father, Werner Lindemann, fought in the war for the Germans. It was not by choice though. His mother isn't Jewish either. She was a radio journalist.
Since it's Rammstein and the promotion is apparently for their upcoming song Deutschland, the video is gonna be one long circlejerk about fascists taking over the world and people just watching.
They love to show the worst of humanity and this will be no different. It's gonna be a brutal takedown of current politics.
I can still see why wearing the Jewish star would make people uncomfortable, but I guess that's exactly what they wanted. Free promotion through outrage.
They love to show the worst of humanity and this will be no different. It's gonna be a brutal takedown of current politics.
I can still see why wearing the Jewish star would make people uncomfortable, but I guess that's exactly what they wanted. Free promotion through outrage.
Didn’t know that. I heard his mother was Jewish a few times in the past. A lot is not really known about the band personally so probably just people throwing shit at the wall.
He was a children's book author and poet in the DDR and a pretty staunch socialist, which partly came from his experience during the war. I am just a bit taken aback by people dismissing the concerns of holocaust survivors like Charlotte Knobloch (whose grandmother was killed in Theresienstadt and who herself was saved from deportation) because this is supposed to be art. Art also has a responsibility towards those they depict.
I’m trying not to dismiss. Just waiting to see the full context. It could be a shit-show. Or it could be an interesting statement.
I dunno, it’s like if a small clip of Inglourious Basterds came out before the movie. Rammstein to me has always been kind of Tarantino-esque. Maybe people have a problem with that movie, though. I guess I don’t know.
I mean, it has been 10 years since their last release.
You can listen to someone's concerns and still think society is capable of moving forward without being authoritarian and censorious about everything someone is not happy with/takes offence to. That's usually where context and intent of the artist come into play and where rational people, even if they still dislike something, can assign it to a thing which we should cherish, not dismiss, freedom of speech/expression.
Rammstein themselves obviously hold quite a hands-off approach to censorship
https://www.rammsteinpress.com/2017/08/26/you-really-need-to-try-hard-to-be-provocative-today/
YMMV where you draw your personal lines on expression, and of course, I'm not shocked to hear people directly impacted by an event would prefer no one to ever use said event, even in story-telling/creating art. But what is also incredibly frustrating is the intellectually dishonest approach to never considering intent or context and just making it up/ignoring it.
It used to be the right-wing Conservatives who were the kings/queens of doing that, there is an increasing rise in the left doing it now. Which, as "my side", really does my head in. I cannot stand hypocrisy, lies and/or people being dishonest in their pursuits of attention/manufacturing outrage in a way which ignores intent and context.
I'm also not a big fan of this culture we live in where as long as you can find your "token offended person", said person can be weaponized into accusations that if you don't agree with them, you in some way abuse/mock/ridicule them. As I said in my post, I can understand WHY people may NEVER approve of something used within art/music/film/tv/etc, and I can respect their absolutist stance for whatever emotional/impactful reasoning they give. However, I am still capable of being honest about something and having no moral qualms about explaining the context/intent of something controversial/provocative and why it existing is not the moral panic it may be suggested it is/could be.
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Well, if it was up to some of these survivors, no artist would be allowed to say anything about it.
That's not something I personally, would want to happen. Hell, look at current issues with a certain middle eastern country. People say: never forget, but a lot of people have forgotten. I say let's keep the horrors of fascism, apartheid and ethnic cleansing alive in our minds. Respecting the past is fine, so long as it doesn't interfere with making damn sure we're not making the same mistakes in the future.
If the song inspires some young people to say fuck you to right-leaning ways of thinking, it's worth some hurt feelings, IMHO.