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German town seizes family dog, sells it on eBay, to cover unpaid tax debt

Syriel

Syriel

Banned
Dec 13, 2017
11,088
Well Germany, you lose this one. Whatcha gonna do now? Start seizing kids and selling them on eBay?

Any law that allows such a thing is unjust. Dogs shouldn't be forcibly removed from a family unless the animal is being abused.



City workers in Germany have seized a family's pedigreed pet pug and sold the animal over eBay to cover the debts of its owners, including an unpaid dog tax.

Frank Merschhausm, spokesman for the city of Ahlen, told NPR in an email that the seizure of "the valuable pet" was "legally permissible," because of open claims by the city's treasury office.
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The dog was seized in November, but allowed to remain for a few days in the family home, located in the Münster region, until a new owner was found.
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Ahlener Tageblatt interviewed Edda's original family as well and reports that three children, aged five, seven and nine, are still not over the loss.
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Merschhaus denied reports that city workers had considered seizing the wheelchair of a disabled member of the household as another potentially valuable item for resale.

"Aids to ensure the mobility of people with disabilities are absolutely exempt - unlike pets," he said.
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Source:
https://www.npr.org/2019/02/28/6989...seized-and-sold-on-ebay-to-cover-unpaid-debts
 
BriGuy

BriGuy

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,275
That's the point I construct an armor-clad Killdozer and bulldoze City Hall.
 
Rory

Rory

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,159
No way.

/Edit: i read it now and i do not think they know what they are doing. Most aids (wheelchairs, hearing aids, even glasses) are partly paid by insurance and mostly even owned. No one is allowed to take any of those.

And while a not installed payment if dog tax may indicate neglecting the animal this does not mean you can simply sell it.

On the other hand, pugs always have health problems, to expect a 780 $ pug most likely without papers to be totally healthy is a joke.
 
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joecanada

joecanada

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,651
Canada
Huh just to counter argue obviously the optics are terrible but I've known several people with no money buy 2000 dollar dogs.... should they be allowed if they owe substantial money.?
Personally I think if you've had the dog years it shouldn't be property
 
DJ_Lae

DJ_Lae

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,858
Edmonton
I feel like a terrible person but somehow that's equally horrible and hilarious. Horrible that the pet was taken away, hilarious that the whole thing classifies it as property that can be seized for payment.

It's one of those things that you wouldn't expect anyone to actually do even if it's technically permissible.
 
CrazyAndy

CrazyAndy

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,071
That's fucked up. First time I heard of it though. Is that really something they can do? They should change the law then.
 
Cor

Cor

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,463
Most fucked up part about that story aint even the dog. They were willing to take away a dude's **wheelchair** in that household and only refrained from doing so because it belonged to some NGO and was being loaned to him.

Officials in Ahlen initially wanted to confiscate a disabled resident's wheelchair — which they deemed the most valuable item on the premises — but then settled on the family's pedigree pug named Edda, German media outlets reported.
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https://nypost.com/2019/02/28/german-authorities-reportedly-seize-familys-dog-sell-it-on-ebay/
 
Gemüsepizza

Gemüsepizza

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,541
Just FYI, this isn't something that's usually done in Germany, people here are outraged too, and it's all over the news. Someone from that city fucked up.
 
Nakho

Nakho

Member
Nov 1, 2017
1,281
This is so fucked up. Germany does have some weird stances on pets, like a tax on having a dog. Wonder how that is legal, though? Even in Brazil, a poor 3rd world country famed for its hunger for more and more tax revenue, this would be inadmissible. Also selling the dog for only half of what a pug usually costs would also be illegal.
 
kmfdmpig

kmfdmpig

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
19,343
BlueOdin said:
I mean, there is a point to be made that if you owe money a pet isn't something you should have.



No. There are laws against animal abuse.
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That's good to hear. So while they may be classified as "property" it's not quite so simple as that as there is clearly a legal basis for protecting the animal's well-being.
 
Rory

Rory

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,159
Akira86 said:
boom. you now have debt. give up your pet immediately.
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How do you want to care for your pet if you cant cover vet? What about food?

Dog insurance, for the case your dog causes damages on other peoples property.

Dog tax was mainly used to cover costs dogs cause the city (such as removing their leftovers — while illegal to leave them it happens)

These are important costs, none that should allow to take away a dog, as its no solution to the money problem, but there'd need to be programs to cover these expenses when the owner temporary cant.
 
CallMeShaft

CallMeShaft

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
3,355
That's sickening. I've unfortunately lost all my dogs due to old age and health, but if any of them were still around and someone tried taking them away from me, legally or not, things would go south real fucking quick for them. You don't mess with a person's family.
 
Akira86

Akira86

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,585
Rory said:
How do you want to care for your pet if you cant cover vet? What about food?

Dog insurance, for the case your dog causes damages on other peoples property.

Dog tax was mainly used to cover costs dogs cause the city (such as removing their leftovers — while illegal to leave them it happens)

These are important costs, none that should allow to take away a dog, as its no solution to the money problem, but there'd need to be programs to cover these expenses when the owner temporary cant.
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words are very
unnecessary
they can only
do harm (like talking yourself into thinking a dog tax is the move, and that the next move is confiscation of a dog for not paying the dog tax.)

and really, having debt, and being physically incapable of taking care of a pet because you can't afford it are two separate situations that have nothing to do with each other.
 
Maolfunction

Maolfunction

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,871
That's insane. You'd never be able to get me to give up my dog, he's family. Surely there are other assets that can be seized besides ripping a dog away from their family, that's cruel to the dog.
 
Rory

Rory

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,159
Akira86 said:
words are very
unnecessary
they can only
do harm (like talking yourself into thinking a dog tax is the move, and that the next move is confiscation of a dog for not paying the dog tax.)

and really, having debt, and being physically incapable of taking care of a pet because you can't afford it are two separate situations that have nothing to do with each other.
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You missed the point.

If its short term issue then there are local shelter/animal rescue organisations who might step in.

The question is why the family didnt turn to their local animal shelter for help to cover cost (temporary).

There are food stamp like programs for poor families, this should go for pet food too. More state sponsored/supported programs should be introduced/made to be known. By doing that you reduce the animals in shelters (as not as many pets are taken out of families for financial reasons) and make sure they have a loving family.
 
Akira86

Akira86

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,585
Rory said:
You missed the point.

If its short term issue then there are local shelter/animal rescue organisations who might step in.

The question is why the family didnt turn to their local animal shelter for help to cover cost (temporary).

There are food stamp like programs for poor families, this should go for pet food too. More state sponsored/supported programs should be introduced/made to be known. By doing that you reduce the animals in shelters (as not as many pets are taken out of families for financial reasons) and make sure they have a loving family.
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I missed the point?
They craigslisted the dog, and even lied about its health, and sold it at a discount rate, to cover a city dog tax, as far as I can tell. If they could not afford to take care of a dog is one thing. If they owed an unpaid bill to the city, but could actually afford to care for the pet, that's different. So it's a rule violation and an economic issue and nothing to do with the welfare of the animal.
 
Burly

Burly

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,070
Hmm, well according to this article like police listed the dog as in good health, but the person who bought the dog said it needed 4 surgeries and had an eye infection.

The dog seems like it was neglected, whether in the original owner's care or while in police custody, I don't know.
https://www.thelocal.de/20190228/pu...d-pug-sold-via-ebay-didnt-fit-the-description

The description in the classified ad promised that Edda had a clean bill of health, saying the dog was "vaccinated and chipped" before going on to say "after consultation with the veterinarian, Edda is healthy!"

As the owner later found out, Edda was 'anything but'. Since buying Edda in December, the dog has needed four operations - including a procedure on an infected eye and another which required emergency transportation more than 100 kilometres away to Duisburg.

She is suing for the costs of the medical expenses, as well as the initial purchase price.
/QUOTE]
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