Getting tons of rejections on my YA Fantasy novel. Will you read my intro?
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First, word count is going to be an issue. 150K is flirting with fantasy length and is apt to turn off many agents, especially if you're a first-time author. Secondly, as far as your query letter is concerned, it skews too much toward purple prose. Sure, it turns a nice phrase or two, but it ultimately doesn't do its job. There's nothing intriguing enough in there to get me to read beyond the summary. It's unclear who the main character is, what their problems are or what choices the they'll have to face. It reads like poetry, and I imagine many agents are turned off by this.
Also, subscribed. I'm editing my own novel and am extremely interested in feedback from others.
Also, subscribed. I'm editing my own novel and am extremely interested in feedback from others.
https://www.resetera.com/threads/writersera-ot-publish-before-you-die.369/page-46
I think that you will get more traction in the writers OT snowhite
I think that you will get more traction in the writers OT snowhite
Bring a professional editor on board. You're working with a 350-400 page novel, way over the standard YA fare.
I do like the introduction, though, so I'd encourage you to keep at it.
I do like the introduction, though, so I'd encourage you to keep at it.
I think 51 pages for a first chapter aimed at young people isn’t gonna fly, regardless of the total length of the book.
Lord of the Rings, a juggernaut of English literature, turned me off the first time because the first chapter was 30 pages about a birthday party. And that was Tolkien.
I’ll be honest that I didn’t read past the first page (that kind of writing doesn’t do it for me and I don’t think I’d be able to give an unbiased opinion), but I’d start going through with a red pen and seeing what you can get rid of.
Just remember that reading takes time, and taking a longer, more detailed path to say something can end up having the opposite effect and completely neuter it.
You’re saying these agents are focusing on your length/word count, so that’s what I’d focus on.
Lord of the Rings, a juggernaut of English literature, turned me off the first time because the first chapter was 30 pages about a birthday party. And that was Tolkien.
I’ll be honest that I didn’t read past the first page (that kind of writing doesn’t do it for me and I don’t think I’d be able to give an unbiased opinion), but I’d start going through with a red pen and seeing what you can get rid of.
Just remember that reading takes time, and taking a longer, more detailed path to say something can end up having the opposite effect and completely neuter it.
You’re saying these agents are focusing on your length/word count, so that’s what I’d focus on.
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It's 51 pages in an odd format. With single line spacing and without unnecessary paragraphs between direct speech I think it'll be something like 30 pages in a book. But then again, 150k words is still pretty much.
I've read the first couple of pages and I do like the style of writing, although sometimes it's a bit convoluted. But that could just be me who only recently read Jack Kerouac, so I might be biased. But I'm certainly biased when it comes to the genre – I'm not a fan of young adult fantasy, or young protagonists in any genre. King's It really is an exception.
I've read the first couple of pages and I do like the style of writing, although sometimes it's a bit convoluted. But that could just be me who only recently read Jack Kerouac, so I might be biased. But I'm certainly biased when it comes to the genre – I'm not a fan of young adult fantasy, or young protagonists in any genre. King's It really is an exception.
Right off the bat, I'd recommend introducing character names rather than "boy" and "girl" if these are to be two prominent characters in your story. Your intro is well-written but I need an attribute of the boy and the girl to make me pay attention to them. The boy being sort of a spirit entity is interesting but the girl isn't described beyond being bound. Also, for a YA novel, the intro takes on a very morose tone.
I'll probably download the first chapter and read through it some more.
I'll probably download the first chapter and read through it some more.
OP
OP
Thank you so much for reading the pages. I'm happy to know you liked it. I'm a fan of simple prose too, though I might have gotten a bit carried away in the prologue.
OP
OP
Thanks a lot for your thoughts. I'll think of ways to make the boy and girl more distinct. Though I can't give them names in the prologue for plot reasons. If you do find the time to go through more of it, I'd love to hear what you think. But no pressure, I understand that people are busy and I'm asking for a big favor anyway. Thanks again. :)
I like your premise, but like others here I'd like to echo some previous sentiments. Primarily regarding the total length of the work if that seems to be the primary concern of the agents you've been sending this out to. That said, as others have mentioned, keep sending it out and don't give up. You'll go through many rejections before a publisher bites, usually. Even still, listen to their criticisms and think on them for yourself. I would definitely bring this to an editor, and consider cutting down on length: are there portions of the story that don't add anything to the overall work that can be removed? Are there elements that can be removed and saved for a sequel?
I'll read through your first chapter when I get a chance, I do like your premise so I'd love to read through a bit more.
I'll read through your first chapter when I get a chance, I do like your premise so I'd love to read through a bit more.
I'm reading a book on randomness and our general inability to deal with and understand it. It's called the Drunkards Walk and it has a bit on famous books and screenplays. Basically, no one has any idea of what will hit and so trying continuously is important. Apparently Confederacy of Dunces took 11 years to get published and was only done so by the work of the author's mother. The author had killed himself a decade earlier.
I haven't read it yet, but I'll give it a glance later.
One thing you have to keep in mind is that publishers are looking for what they think will sell and issues like appropriateness for target audience and what's currently on trend play an important role. Quality of writing matters, yes, but only to an extent.
One thing you have to keep in mind is that publishers are looking for what they think will sell and issues like appropriateness for target audience and what's currently on trend play an important role. Quality of writing matters, yes, but only to an extent.
I'm not really an expert reader, and it's been a while since I've read YA stuff in particular, but I gave the linked first chapter a brief look. I'm also not a writer, so I can't really give a lot of technical advice.
First impressions are that it's actually not bad, at least from the writing perspective, and it flows well. The prose feels good, although I don't know how YA books feel about introducing a lot of weird terminology. It feels very heavy for an introduction sequence, particularly one aimed at children. Just in this first chapter, you already have a 10 year old girl almost being fed alive to a bunch of snakes, her mother suffering from a serious illness, then almost being strangled to death by a python, then a different 6 year old kid dying from bullying/drowning, then this same kid's ghost fearing the abyss of death, and then the 10 year old girl being betrayed by her uncle who it turns out also wants her dead. It was pretty uncomfortable for me to read, and I'm not even a kid. But then again I know a lot of people seem to love this sort of stuff, so that could explain the mixed reactions.
The other thing that stands out to me is that the book seems fiercely anti-religious. Which is fine if that's your personal world view, but I'm not really sure how appropriate it is for kids (or rather the kid's parents, because they'll be the ones complaining). I'm also not really buying the way religion is portrayed. The people here are supposed to be so fanatical they're willing to literally feed a 10 year old girl to snakes, but somehow can't be bothered to walk back to the temple to do it properly even after their priest tells them their god demands it? I'm not convinced. Actually, why were they even carrying snakes with them in the first place if the plan was to take her back?
You're basically painting religious people as people who only use their religion as an excuse to indiscriminately murder children, because they seem to care a whole lot more about the murder than they do about religion. Okay, that's probably not your intention (or is it?), but I can imagine plenty of people interpreting it like that. And I'd imagine that would get a lot of pushback.
That said, the intro did get me interested in what's going on with the world, so it has that going for it, and like I said I thought the prose was pretty good. At any rate, it was interesting enough to get me to finish it, although I'm not quite sure I'd be sold on reading 150k words of it. And the idea of trying to tackle dealing with death in a children's book seems interesting, but it also seems like something that would be very easy to screw up, especially since this is your first book, but if it's done well it could be really great. But that's hard to tell with just the intro. For example, if the book keeps up the horrifying child-tormenting tone for much longer, I'm pretty sure I'd drop it. I can handle one chapter of it to set the tone, but not much more than that.
For specific suggestions, I found this sentence to be pretty weird:
First impressions are that it's actually not bad, at least from the writing perspective, and it flows well. The prose feels good, although I don't know how YA books feel about introducing a lot of weird terminology. It feels very heavy for an introduction sequence, particularly one aimed at children. Just in this first chapter, you already have a 10 year old girl almost being fed alive to a bunch of snakes, her mother suffering from a serious illness, then almost being strangled to death by a python, then a different 6 year old kid dying from bullying/drowning, then this same kid's ghost fearing the abyss of death, and then the 10 year old girl being betrayed by her uncle who it turns out also wants her dead. It was pretty uncomfortable for me to read, and I'm not even a kid. But then again I know a lot of people seem to love this sort of stuff, so that could explain the mixed reactions.
The other thing that stands out to me is that the book seems fiercely anti-religious. Which is fine if that's your personal world view, but I'm not really sure how appropriate it is for kids (or rather the kid's parents, because they'll be the ones complaining). I'm also not really buying the way religion is portrayed. The people here are supposed to be so fanatical they're willing to literally feed a 10 year old girl to snakes, but somehow can't be bothered to walk back to the temple to do it properly even after their priest tells them their god demands it? I'm not convinced. Actually, why were they even carrying snakes with them in the first place if the plan was to take her back?
You're basically painting religious people as people who only use their religion as an excuse to indiscriminately murder children, because they seem to care a whole lot more about the murder than they do about religion. Okay, that's probably not your intention (or is it?), but I can imagine plenty of people interpreting it like that. And I'd imagine that would get a lot of pushback.
That said, the intro did get me interested in what's going on with the world, so it has that going for it, and like I said I thought the prose was pretty good. At any rate, it was interesting enough to get me to finish it, although I'm not quite sure I'd be sold on reading 150k words of it. And the idea of trying to tackle dealing with death in a children's book seems interesting, but it also seems like something that would be very easy to screw up, especially since this is your first book, but if it's done well it could be really great. But that's hard to tell with just the intro. For example, if the book keeps up the horrifying child-tormenting tone for much longer, I'm pretty sure I'd drop it. I can handle one chapter of it to set the tone, but not much more than that.
For specific suggestions, I found this sentence to be pretty weird:
It initially made it sound to me like Bethle and the brother are two different people. You did introduce his name before so I should know Bethle is his brother, but it still feels nicer to be unambiguous to me. Although when thinking about it, there doesn't seem to be a great solution. Using the order Bethle/his brother/him sounds better, but makes the last him ambigous because it can refer to either Bethle of Dev. And you can't do Bethle/him/his brother because it now sounds like the last part is referring to Bethle's brother (Dev). This still sounds better to me, but I guess your way is fine.
Which is weird because he was published as a teenager and the book wasn’t nearly as good as Confederacy of Dunces.
Edit: Never mind Neon Bible was published well after even Confederacy. I got confused.
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I'm curious about what makes "purple prose."
Have you ever read The Vorrh?
PP is language so flowery and unnecessary that it becomes a distraction. A lot of writers (myself included) mistakenly use it to prop up boring/uninteresting scenes in lieu of fixing their real issues, especially in first drafts (and should be corrected in later ones). Also, keep a word count of 100K in sight. For reference, most popular fiction runs between 80-120K. That will likely mean splitting up your novel into parts.
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The agents are right, that's way to long for YA, especially as a debut author. I'm reading through your first chapter right now and you have a bit too much purple prose and are already throwing around a lot of fictional proper nouns and fictional names for creatures/plants/people/etc. without explanation.
Edit: Realized this sounded pretty negative, your writing is good and at least from this small snippet it seems promising, definitely good enough to be published. You still have some rough edges to work out though.
Edit: Realized this sounded pretty negative, your writing is good and at least from this small snippet it seems promising, definitely good enough to be published. You still have some rough edges to work out though.
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I know this isn't what you want to hear, but: You'll never sell a 150k YA novel.
My guess is that 90% of agents stop reading your cover letter as soon as they see the length of the manuscript. As much as your craft itself is an important part of selling your book, a huge part if understanding the market and how to position/sell yourself. Trying to sell a 150k word book to a market that generally published 50k word books will cause agents and editors to assume that you're not familiar with the market and what makes a YA book successful. Most first time writers won't be able to sell a 150k adult fantasy, let alone YA. (Notice how the Harry Potter books only got long when Rowling became a *huge* success*.) Divide your book into a trilogy, rewrite the new volumes to fit that structure, and attempt to sell the first volume as a 50k YA fantasy with sequels in the wings.
My guess is that 90% of agents stop reading your cover letter as soon as they see the length of the manuscript. As much as your craft itself is an important part of selling your book, a huge part if understanding the market and how to position/sell yourself. Trying to sell a 150k word book to a market that generally published 50k word books will cause agents and editors to assume that you're not familiar with the market and what makes a YA book successful. Most first time writers won't be able to sell a 150k adult fantasy, let alone YA. (Notice how the Harry Potter books only got long when Rowling became a *huge* success*.) Divide your book into a trilogy, rewrite the new volumes to fit that structure, and attempt to sell the first volume as a 50k YA fantasy with sequels in the wings.
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OP
OP
I get where you are coming from, and I understand that what I'm trying to do is really difficult, but I wouldn't use the word never. Tomi Adeyemi published her 154k debut novel "Children of Blood and Bone" in 2018, which is now a bestseller. And Patrick Rothfuss sold his 250k word "The Name of the Wind" as a debut author too.
Not making any comparisons, of course. Just saying it's possible.
You can't write a 150k YA novel. Sorry. When agents give you a reason for their rejection, you should listen to them. You need to get this as close as possible to at least 110k. But the closer you can get to 100k the better.
I would encourage you to stop sending queries out and focus on revisions. I know it's difficult to cut, but I bet there are non-essential scenes in there. You'll just keep getting rejections until you get that word count down.
I'd encourage you not to think you'll be the exception. It is incredibly, incredibly rare for a debut YA author to have such a lengthy book. Seriously, please don't do that to yourself! You'll just be in for hard realizations later.
I would encourage you to stop sending queries out and focus on revisions. I know it's difficult to cut, but I bet there are non-essential scenes in there. You'll just keep getting rejections until you get that word count down.
Patrick Rothfuss isn't YA.
I'd encourage you not to think you'll be the exception. It is incredibly, incredibly rare for a debut YA author to have such a lengthy book. Seriously, please don't do that to yourself! You'll just be in for hard realizations later.
You aren't Tomi Adeyemi. For one, her first novel was rejected multiple times and was pretty much scrapped before she wrote "Children of Blood and Bone". Plus she entered the novel into a writing contest/mentoring program that puts you in touch with agents to get your foot in the door. She also has a unique personal story and adds diversity to a publisher's line up. She's the exception, not the rule.
The agents are telling you it's too long. Since they are the gatekeepers, you should listen to them.
OP
OP
Thank you so much for going through the entirety of the first chapter. I really appreciate you giving it your time.
Religion and faith play an important role in the story, and I try to show various facets of it. I'm personally a believer, and understand the power of faith in our lives and the positive effects it can have on our thinking and actions. So religion isn't entirely a negative element in the story.
About the darkness of the story: This has been a real problem. I get a lot of rejections because agents think that the story is grimdark. It's not. The tone is actually more comparable to the movie Spirited Away, which is a huge influence. There's lots of humor and wonder in the story. But my main idea about the story tone was Miyazaki meets Steven Erikson(of the Malazan fame), and so some of the chapters are dark. I don't know what to do about it. The violence and darkness is never gratuitous, and I have strong reasons for all of it in the first chapter. Somehow it feels to me that it belongs in this story.
On your point about the villagers being unwilling to go to the sakra pits: The pits aren't a temple. And they are a quite a few hours away from the village on foot. You do make a fair point though. My idea for the scene was to show the absurdity of the whole thing, and to show the monstrosity of the act by giving the villagers a bit of humanity instead of making them the cliched faceless angry mob. The scene is actually inspired by a similar scene in Django Unchained where the KKK members are arguing about their face masks. I'll change things if the scene isn't working. As for the snakes, they were carrying them to drop them over Iri at the Sakra pits originally.
Thanks again for all your feedback. It was super insightful and has given me a lot to think about.
I think you're writing in the wrong register for both segments of your crossover audience - teens and adults - and your descriptions are both overblown and confusing.
In the first paragraph alone, you talk about people's eyes that "seethed with fervour," and I want to use that as an example, because it's emblematic of the style that continued over the first couple of pages I read. Adults will find that description too florid, and teens will find it confusing. To top that off, it doesn't really make sense. People can seethe, but if you're narrowing in on one particular feature, you can't really say that feature seethes - it's an overall thing.
On the same page you've got words like "unmindful" and "suffusing" that just don't belong. You're also throwing in a lot of adverbs, which makes the style feel even more remote.
I'm only critiquing your style here, because I haven't read enough to comment on the plot, but as a professional writer (not fiction) I'd encourage you to re-tool your style with your target market more firmly in mind.
I've taken this paragraph, for instance:
"The arguing came to an end. It seemed like a decision had been reached. The people dug up a pit before the house, and into the pit they emptied the baskets they were carrying. Snakes fell into the darkness of the fresh-dug hole. The girl was now struggling furiously and crying for her mother. The villagers began to chant around her, but the boy caught only one word–aghor-shapt."
And I've re-styled it as though I was trying to write, and sell, a book for teens. I've prioritised clarity, pace, and suspense:
"When they reached the house, the crowd fell silent and split into two. The girl cried harder and hoarser. She screamed and struggled and shouted for her mother. Half of them held her; the other half put down their baskets and unshouldered their shovels. As they struck the soil they started to chant. The boy strained his ears against the evening. "Agor-shapt. Agor-shapt." The shovels hit rock. The diggers dropped their shovels and tipped over their baskets. Snakes writhed from out of the wicker, slithering over the earth and slipping into the hole. The hole the crowd now stood around was person-sized."
EDIT: For what it's worth, your tone is nothing like Spirited Away. In the first two pages someone's been slapped across the face, gagged, restrained, and buried with snakes.
In the first paragraph alone, you talk about people's eyes that "seethed with fervour," and I want to use that as an example, because it's emblematic of the style that continued over the first couple of pages I read. Adults will find that description too florid, and teens will find it confusing. To top that off, it doesn't really make sense. People can seethe, but if you're narrowing in on one particular feature, you can't really say that feature seethes - it's an overall thing.
On the same page you've got words like "unmindful" and "suffusing" that just don't belong. You're also throwing in a lot of adverbs, which makes the style feel even more remote.
I'm only critiquing your style here, because I haven't read enough to comment on the plot, but as a professional writer (not fiction) I'd encourage you to re-tool your style with your target market more firmly in mind.
I've taken this paragraph, for instance:
"The arguing came to an end. It seemed like a decision had been reached. The people dug up a pit before the house, and into the pit they emptied the baskets they were carrying. Snakes fell into the darkness of the fresh-dug hole. The girl was now struggling furiously and crying for her mother. The villagers began to chant around her, but the boy caught only one word–aghor-shapt."
And I've re-styled it as though I was trying to write, and sell, a book for teens. I've prioritised clarity, pace, and suspense:
"When they reached the house, the crowd fell silent and split into two. The girl cried harder and hoarser. She screamed and struggled and shouted for her mother. Half of them held her; the other half put down their baskets and unshouldered their shovels. As they struck the soil they started to chant. The boy strained his ears against the evening. "Agor-shapt. Agor-shapt." The shovels hit rock. The diggers dropped their shovels and tipped over their baskets. Snakes writhed from out of the wicker, slithering over the earth and slipping into the hole. The hole the crowd now stood around was person-sized."
EDIT: For what it's worth, your tone is nothing like Spirited Away. In the first two pages someone's been slapped across the face, gagged, restrained, and buried with snakes.
First off, take every piece of criticism with a grain of salt, we all have inherent biases and tastes.
Without having read anything, the 150K is a lot of words, especially for a YA book. However, that's not necessarily a bad thing, some stories need that space to work. However, whenever I see unpublished Novels this long my initial fear is that the story might be overwritten and need a fair bit of editing. Reading your summary I kinda get that feeling immediately. I like the "A kite is " repetition and structure, but I feel like you can be more specific and pointed with the short character intros there.
"Dev was five when he lost his first one to the village boys. The next day his brother Bethle made him a new one. At seven he flew his favourite into a tree, and Bethle broke his arm trying to get it down. At ten he lost Bethle to the gods in the sky. And now the same fate awaits him."
The sentiment I get with Dev from the above is that his brother has always looked out for him and now he's dead, and Dev might be in danger. However, the first and second and even third sentence are basically covering the same ground. Also, because the stated threat of danger towards Dev is so vague I don't really get a sense of what the conflict is here or why I should be excited or scared. I feel broadly the same about the initial Iri intro in your summary. I understand that you're trying to draw a parallel between them, but the fact that they both once had kites doesn't really tie them together in a meaningful or particularly interesting way (maybe you go into this further in the book).
"At thirteen Dev finds his brother stranded between life and death, and must help him go beyond before the gods devour what's left of Bethle. But he can't raise the courage to let his brother die, or to face his gods alone.
Iri knows Ma is out there somewhere, still waiting for her. As is the tribe, and vengeance burns bright in her soul. But she's lost and hopeless, and it’s a long road alone.
"
The above is so much clearer and to the point and makes me more excited to read this.
I always recommend people look very carefully at their prologues, because a lot of the time it isn't doing that for their narratives. Prologues I see in unpublished work tend to be info dumps or the author injecting action/excitement at the start of the book to try and hook the reader. The infodumps generally don't work because hitting readers immediately with a lump of information is a fast lane to sending them to sleep. The action injection generally doesn't work because it's difficult for a reader to care about action without grounding it in characters or characterisation. Books are not a visual medium so the visceral impact of a good action setpiece can be difficult to get across, especially without interesting characters present.
I also took a look at your first chapter. I like the general vibe, it's dark in a way that I love, but I feel like you can cut a lot here. It feels really overwritten to me, by that I mean that the piece had an awful lot of sentences that are just restating something you've already written. Take the opening of your first chapter:
"Her god had rejected her. He had known. He had looked into her heart and found fear and
disgust. And then she had committed a terrible sin. She was aghor-shapt, unworthy of his
light. Tomorrow the villagers would take her to the Sakra pits, and bury her with the snakes.
Iri pulled at the laiceroot stems, her thoughts caught in the repeating strain of disbelief
and horror. She tugged at a stem, but it refused to give. Iri pulled harder, but it simply
wouldn’t break. Angry tears welled up in her eyes as she yanked at the stubborn plant. The
guilt and rage bubbling inside her rose to the surface, and she tore the stem away with savage
force. She wanted to scream, but couldn’t, for Ma would hear her, and the worry would only
make Ma’s fever worse.
The emotions built up inside her until she felt ready to burst. She began to pull at the
plants in silence, ripping them from the earth. When she ran out of laiceroot stems she started
uprooting anything she found close. Shrubs and herbs acquired with great difficulty by her
mother and grandfather over the years were violently removed from the garden bed."
The "pulling" of the grass is a big example of that to me. For five sentences straight there is a reference to Iri pulling grass. You do not have to do this. Restating a point over and over again isn't inherently bad, in fact, it can be a great way to build up tension or hammer home a point. The issue I have is that the restating here isn't really adding anything to the story. There are more examples of this, "The guilt and rage bubbling inside her rose to the surface" is a couple of sentences away from "The emotions built up inside her until she felt ready to burst.". These are almost the same thing, you only really need one. As an editing exercise, I decided to try and see if I could almost cut the word count of the extract above in half and still maintain the meaning and general feeling of the piece, which you can find below:
"Her god had rejected her. He had known. She was aghor-shapt, unworthy of his
light. Tomorrow the villagers would take her to the Sakra pits, and bury her with the snakes.
Iri pulled at the laiceroot stems, but it refused to give. Angry tears welled up in her eyes.
The guilt and rage bubbling inside her rose to the surface, and she tore the stem away with savage
force. She wanted to scream, but couldn’t, for Ma would hear her, and the worry would only make Ma’s fever worse.
When she ran out of laiceroot stems she started uprooting anything she found close. Shrubs and herbs acquired with great difficulty by her mother and grandfather over the years were violently removed from the garden bed."
I'm not saying that you should use my edited version, it's really rough and I'm sure you could edit your piece to your liking better than me. I'm just saying that there's a lot of room here for you to cut things and that you probably should.
This is just from a cursory look at your first couple of pages. I would recommend trying to join a writers group if you can.
Without having read anything, the 150K is a lot of words, especially for a YA book. However, that's not necessarily a bad thing, some stories need that space to work. However, whenever I see unpublished Novels this long my initial fear is that the story might be overwritten and need a fair bit of editing. Reading your summary I kinda get that feeling immediately. I like the "A kite is " repetition and structure, but I feel like you can be more specific and pointed with the short character intros there.
"Dev was five when he lost his first one to the village boys. The next day his brother Bethle made him a new one. At seven he flew his favourite into a tree, and Bethle broke his arm trying to get it down. At ten he lost Bethle to the gods in the sky. And now the same fate awaits him."
The sentiment I get with Dev from the above is that his brother has always looked out for him and now he's dead, and Dev might be in danger. However, the first and second and even third sentence are basically covering the same ground. Also, because the stated threat of danger towards Dev is so vague I don't really get a sense of what the conflict is here or why I should be excited or scared. I feel broadly the same about the initial Iri intro in your summary. I understand that you're trying to draw a parallel between them, but the fact that they both once had kites doesn't really tie them together in a meaningful or particularly interesting way (maybe you go into this further in the book).
"At thirteen Dev finds his brother stranded between life and death, and must help him go beyond before the gods devour what's left of Bethle. But he can't raise the courage to let his brother die, or to face his gods alone.
Iri knows Ma is out there somewhere, still waiting for her. As is the tribe, and vengeance burns bright in her soul. But she's lost and hopeless, and it’s a long road alone.
"
The above is so much clearer and to the point and makes me more excited to read this.
I always recommend people look very carefully at their prologues, because a lot of the time it isn't doing that for their narratives. Prologues I see in unpublished work tend to be info dumps or the author injecting action/excitement at the start of the book to try and hook the reader. The infodumps generally don't work because hitting readers immediately with a lump of information is a fast lane to sending them to sleep. The action injection generally doesn't work because it's difficult for a reader to care about action without grounding it in characters or characterisation. Books are not a visual medium so the visceral impact of a good action setpiece can be difficult to get across, especially without interesting characters present.
I also took a look at your first chapter. I like the general vibe, it's dark in a way that I love, but I feel like you can cut a lot here. It feels really overwritten to me, by that I mean that the piece had an awful lot of sentences that are just restating something you've already written. Take the opening of your first chapter:
"Her god had rejected her. He had known. He had looked into her heart and found fear and
disgust. And then she had committed a terrible sin. She was aghor-shapt, unworthy of his
light. Tomorrow the villagers would take her to the Sakra pits, and bury her with the snakes.
Iri pulled at the laiceroot stems, her thoughts caught in the repeating strain of disbelief
and horror. She tugged at a stem, but it refused to give. Iri pulled harder, but it simply
wouldn’t break. Angry tears welled up in her eyes as she yanked at the stubborn plant. The
guilt and rage bubbling inside her rose to the surface, and she tore the stem away with savage
force. She wanted to scream, but couldn’t, for Ma would hear her, and the worry would only
make Ma’s fever worse.
The emotions built up inside her until she felt ready to burst. She began to pull at the
plants in silence, ripping them from the earth. When she ran out of laiceroot stems she started
uprooting anything she found close. Shrubs and herbs acquired with great difficulty by her
mother and grandfather over the years were violently removed from the garden bed."
The "pulling" of the grass is a big example of that to me. For five sentences straight there is a reference to Iri pulling grass. You do not have to do this. Restating a point over and over again isn't inherently bad, in fact, it can be a great way to build up tension or hammer home a point. The issue I have is that the restating here isn't really adding anything to the story. There are more examples of this, "The guilt and rage bubbling inside her rose to the surface" is a couple of sentences away from "The emotions built up inside her until she felt ready to burst.". These are almost the same thing, you only really need one. As an editing exercise, I decided to try and see if I could almost cut the word count of the extract above in half and still maintain the meaning and general feeling of the piece, which you can find below:
"Her god had rejected her. He had known. She was aghor-shapt, unworthy of his
light. Tomorrow the villagers would take her to the Sakra pits, and bury her with the snakes.
Iri pulled at the laiceroot stems, but it refused to give. Angry tears welled up in her eyes.
The guilt and rage bubbling inside her rose to the surface, and she tore the stem away with savage
force. She wanted to scream, but couldn’t, for Ma would hear her, and the worry would only make Ma’s fever worse.
When she ran out of laiceroot stems she started uprooting anything she found close. Shrubs and herbs acquired with great difficulty by her mother and grandfather over the years were violently removed from the garden bed."
I'm not saying that you should use my edited version, it's really rough and I'm sure you could edit your piece to your liking better than me. I'm just saying that there's a lot of room here for you to cut things and that you probably should.
This is just from a cursory look at your first couple of pages. I would recommend trying to join a writers group if you can.
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OP
OP
Alright everyone, thanks a lot for your thoughts and feedback. Sometimes I get boneheaded about my work, and need help understanding the obvious. You guys have been great in helping me out.
Here are the things I plan to do-
1. Reduce the Word count to 120k. Going lower than that seems difficult.
2. Make the first chapter much shorter, and completely rewrite it to reflect the tone of the story better (much lighter, in the tone of Spirited Away, which is the original inspiration behind the story).
3. Finish this list.
Hey, looks like I already achieved one of those! Go me. Thank you again. :)
Here are the things I plan to do-
1. Reduce the Word count to 120k. Going lower than that seems difficult.
2. Make the first chapter much shorter, and completely rewrite it to reflect the tone of the story better (much lighter, in the tone of Spirited Away, which is the original inspiration behind the story).
3. Finish this list.
Hey, looks like I already achieved one of those! Go me. Thank you again. :)
you might have to do something difficult then, and figure out how to go lower.
I would aim to get it below 100k if possible. ideally to 75-80k as from what I have read that is the more ideal spot for young adult (fantasy can run a little higher but should try to cut off by 90k or so)
beyond that just keep sending it out, getting feedback and trying to improve it.
if you have some time join us in the Creative Writing Challenge threads https://www.resetera.com/threads/creative-writing-challenge-29-the-merciful-and-the-ruthless.104847/ where you write a 2k word or so short story and get feedback, and try to determine things you do in general that makes your word count larger than it needs to be.
as someone else said feel free to join the writing thread as well https://www.resetera.com/threads/writersera-ot-publish-before-you-die.369/ in which there is a link for the resetera writing discord if you want a slightly more active place.
you are going to get rejected a lot just keep trying to get better, do better, and hope someone will eventually want it.
tagging you both as well recommending you also check out the CWC and writing threads :P
Guess you had really kind beta readers or used close friends who werent really going to give you hard hitting criticisms.
Word count is fine if you were just going to post it on wattpad or ao3 though, lots of stories on those (original writing) do go that far.
Ill just mention that summary should be much shorter, like 150 words at most to catch people. The way yours is now, is kind of uninteresting and takes multiple reads to really figure what the story is supposed to be about, the journey the characters are gonna take, and what the motivations are. Everything is spread in many paragraphs and too much time is spent defining and describing a kite. Also wheres the buzzwords?
Word count is fine if you were just going to post it on wattpad or ao3 though, lots of stories on those (original writing) do go that far.
Ill just mention that summary should be much shorter, like 150 words at most to catch people. The way yours is now, is kind of uninteresting and takes multiple reads to really figure what the story is supposed to be about, the journey the characters are gonna take, and what the motivations are. Everything is spread in many paragraphs and too much time is spent defining and describing a kite. Also wheres the buzzwords?
Eh you've heard this a bunch, but yeah, that word count is a HUGE red flag for YA and for a first time author. My first novel clocked in at around 130k for high fantasy--which are known for being goddamned huge--and I had agents tell me to fuck off with that word count. It's just not worth the risk to them.
If I remember right, the average YA novel is like 70-80k words.
As to your summary, I like the idea of it, but it's also rather overblown language wise and hard to understand. If an agent has to read it twice, it's probably destined for a rejection.
You have too many names in it. Get it down to one character and what one character wants/desires/whatever. I know it's big fantasy and big fantasy tends to get well, big, but you want to keep your query summary as simple as possible.
Can't speak much to the actual writing. Read a few paragraphs, but I just got done reading a different book and I'm kinda not in the mood for more words right now :P A 51-page first chapter is pretty insane though. You really will want to trim that down.
If I remember right, the average YA novel is like 70-80k words.
As to your summary, I like the idea of it, but it's also rather overblown language wise and hard to understand. If an agent has to read it twice, it's probably destined for a rejection.
You have too many names in it. Get it down to one character and what one character wants/desires/whatever. I know it's big fantasy and big fantasy tends to get well, big, but you want to keep your query summary as simple as possible.
Can't speak much to the actual writing. Read a few paragraphs, but I just got done reading a different book and I'm kinda not in the mood for more words right now :P A 51-page first chapter is pretty insane though. You really will want to trim that down.
I'm going to have to echo some of the sentiments in this thread: work on getting that word count down. A 150k word first novel getting published is extremely rare. Don't stack the odds against yourself. Work on revising it as close to 100k as possible. Learning how to say more with less is a valuable skill you'll want to work on.
That summary is flowery but not in a good way. I read it and I sort of know what it's saying, but I sort of don't, so it doesn't hook me in a way that makes me want to open the book. Since you like Howl's Moving Castle so much, check out its summary:
That summary is flowery but not in a good way. I read it and I sort of know what it's saying, but I sort of don't, so it doesn't hook me in a way that makes me want to open the book. Since you like Howl's Moving Castle so much, check out its summary:
Pay attention to what it does. It's telling enough about the character and her predicament to pull you in. I actually bought the book just based on that summary. It's also pretty straight forward. It doesn't have to sound like poetry, because it's not. Try modeling a summary after this one - you might like what you write!
I read th summary,and i am already confused. Who is Iri and how do they relate to dev and bethle? Do they all share the same Ma?
I read the first page of the prologue and found it too flowery for my taste. I cant imagine reading it in my teens to be honest.
I read the first page of the prologue and found it too flowery for my taste. I cant imagine reading it in my teens to be honest.
I disagree that the first chapter’s length is important. By that time I picked up the book and started reading as long as its good ot doesnt matter how long it is.
Im a huge fan of YA literacy, and generally spoken your intro caught my sttention although I agree it was partly too vague.
If you ask me you needcharacter names one can easily iddntify with. Dev and Bethle dont do that for me. Iri is somewhat okaish.
In a shop, i most likely wouldnt have taken a second look at your book due to these issues (Too vague, difficult to identify with characters etc.) but not due to length. I will read first chapter and come back later.
Im a huge fan of YA literacy, and generally spoken your intro caught my sttention although I agree it was partly too vague.
If you ask me you needcharacter names one can easily iddntify with. Dev and Bethle dont do that for me. Iri is somewhat okaish.
In a shop, i most likely wouldnt have taken a second look at your book due to these issues (Too vague, difficult to identify with characters etc.) but not due to length. I will read first chapter and come back later.
I'm whizzing around atm busy procras--er... doing things!! But maybe I'll give it a lil' viewing later. I wish you luck, Snowhite, and hope you get the kinks sorted out to bust this guy out onto the world!
I’m on my phone so I didn’t read the first chapter. I did read the summary though and I can confidently say I’d never want to. The summary reads like poetry without a meaning I can understand (since the payoff is the rest of the story).
It’s also teasing things that don’t make sense - the paragraph about Dev at 13 is the primary example. Why is his brother with a name I can’t pronounce (seriously, change the name) half dead and who is going to face the gods alone? I had to read the whole summary multiple times to fully understand what it is this book is about. That’s a problem.
This summary needs to excite people. I’m just not confident it excites anyone. It doesn’t really tell me why I should care.
I don’t mean to be harsh. I’m just being honest as a casual reader. I wish you luck.
It’s also teasing things that don’t make sense - the paragraph about Dev at 13 is the primary example. Why is his brother with a name I can’t pronounce (seriously, change the name) half dead and who is going to face the gods alone? I had to read the whole summary multiple times to fully understand what it is this book is about. That’s a problem.
This summary needs to excite people. I’m just not confident it excites anyone. It doesn’t really tell me why I should care.
I don’t mean to be harsh. I’m just being honest as a casual reader. I wish you luck.
I have only read the prologue so far, but I already have a tip if you would like it.
Since you are starting out, I would suggest you avoid the passive voice for now. Experienced authors will often use the passive voice to great effect, but if you are looking to impress prospective agents/publishers, then you're better off relying on bold, straightforward prose instead.
For example, sentences like "It seemed like a decision had been reached." feel extremely limp and vague. Wouldn't it be more fun to show the readers how the mob came to a decision? Here's another one: "A girl was dragged into the light of the torches." That sounds like a traumatic, scarring event, but here it comes off as rather unimportant and impersonal, like gossip.
As readers, we'd prefer you show us how the grimy throng roared and waved their torches in agreement; or how a shabby farmer lunged at the shrieking girl, gripping her by the neck with a calloused hand and then pinning her to the mossy ground (your words and tone should fit your target demographic, but I hope you catch my drift.)
I wish you the best of luck. IMO you have already taken the hardest step, which is actually sitting down and writing (trust me, most hopeful writers don't even get to that point.) Just remember that editing afterwards is just as, if not more, important.
Since you are starting out, I would suggest you avoid the passive voice for now. Experienced authors will often use the passive voice to great effect, but if you are looking to impress prospective agents/publishers, then you're better off relying on bold, straightforward prose instead.
For example, sentences like "It seemed like a decision had been reached." feel extremely limp and vague. Wouldn't it be more fun to show the readers how the mob came to a decision? Here's another one: "A girl was dragged into the light of the torches." That sounds like a traumatic, scarring event, but here it comes off as rather unimportant and impersonal, like gossip.
As readers, we'd prefer you show us how the grimy throng roared and waved their torches in agreement; or how a shabby farmer lunged at the shrieking girl, gripping her by the neck with a calloused hand and then pinning her to the mossy ground (your words and tone should fit your target demographic, but I hope you catch my drift.)
I wish you the best of luck. IMO you have already taken the hardest step, which is actually sitting down and writing (trust me, most hopeful writers don't even get to that point.) Just remember that editing afterwards is just as, if not more, important.
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Alright I'm ripping off the band-aid because everyone else is helping, they're not straight up telling you. It's terrible. Honestly I've already read two books that sounded like what you've written. Sure there's books, and movies, out there that are alike and have done well. Want to know something? You're not good enough to beat them out. It's boring, you're using words that I don't even know what they mean. Some girl was murdered in the first chapter, and that's dark for a young novel. If you were good enough, you could probably get away with it. But since you're not even published, don't start out with that. You keep using He and She the whole time. Who are these people? Who is he and she? I don't want to figure it out six pages down, it's not good writing. Everyone is saying that the publishers seeing the word count is turning them off. It's your whole story that turned them off. Yeah, loads of authors have been rejected countless numbers of times. You might have JK Rowling blown up on your wall as your main source of inspiration for countless rejections. In the end Harry Potter offered something new, and how could I forget. What year is this set in? Yeah and Wow are modern words. If you're in ye olden days, then don't use this. Keep your words consistent with the era you're going for. It takes the reader out of the story. Maybe you'll get better. My advice, start reading more books and see what those PUBLISHED authors are doing. Because you're missing the mark.