Github link.
Wonder if the UNICLR director's inquiry led to this decision or if it was already in the works? Either way, this removes a big obstacle to good rollback netcode in the next generation of fighting games!
It's already too late. Games have to be built from the ground up with GGPO in mind for it to properly function. Hence the main reason you see NRS and Capcom trying to develop their own alternatives after the fact.
Edit: I'm hopeful that the new Guilty Gear will feature at LEAST a half-assed implementation, which the devs can gradually fix with updates.
We used it on Skullgirls extensively. I know MikeZ went back and forth with them to work out a lot of kinks.
Edit: I'm hopeful that the new Guilty Gear will feature at LEAST a half-assed implementation, which the devs can gradually fix with updates.
Not necessarily, GGPO was initially introduced to a whole sleuth of old games/roms.It's already too late. Games have to be built from the ground up with GGPO in mind for it to properly function. Hence the main reason you see NRS and Capcom trying to develop their own alternatives after the fact.
Watch as Japanese devs still not give a fuck even then.
The new Guilty Gear looks dope as all hell, but knowing it'll have some shitty delay based netcode just depresses me.
Indie devs often weren't the ones with the excuses.
???Isn't it ironic that in a genre that preaches the values of working hard and putting in the time at practice and you will be rewarded, the game devs needed to be spoon fed something that would help them in the long run.
Tbh I was thinking in general about their games. But on further thought the only games that don't already use rollback are Mario Maker and Smash, and in Mario Maker is pretty much impossible to have any other thing that is not lockstep.
There's an implementation of GGPO for UE4 -- it's what they used in Rising Thunder.does unreal engine include netcode? would they be able to include ggpo in the future? only way i see some japanese developers using ggpo.
That doesn't justify the laziness of some developers. Yes, It NEEDS a little more work but we are talking about big companies with a lot of employees. Sure when they can build a game from the ground, Implementing a decent netcode shouldn't be much problem.Heh, the source code isn't even half a megabyte. Then again my rigid body simulator project from college isn't even 300kb and that wasn't exactly trivial to make.
I mean GGPO is conceptually simple (keep multiple frames of input/gamestate, rollback and reiterate when input arrives late), but it's the nuances of the game itself that make implementing it tricky. Both MK11 and Overwatch devs gave talks on the gotchas of implementing rollback latency compensation. I am still looking for a good resource on how to deal with floating point divergence.
It's cool that they released this, but there are other subtle but painful obstacles that prevent this from being trivial to implement. There's more work to implementing GGPO than pulling this GIT repo and then hitting right click and adding the source to the project.
So future titles are okay if they design with GGPO in mind?It's already too late. Games have to be built from the ground up with GGPO in mind for it to properly function. Hence the main reason you see NRS and Capcom trying to develop their own alternatives after the fact.
Not necessarily, GGPO was initially introduced to a whole sleuth of old games/roms.
It is definitely possible to bake this into Guilty Gear, regardless of how into its development cycle it is.
Unless of course you have some inside knowledge into its roadmap.
Yes, It NEEDS a little more work but we are talking about big companies with a lot of employees.
It's indie devs who have been using it, even port studios. It's the big publishers we have to be concerned about.
Most of this post is undercut by the fact that it's the small indie teams who have been the most consistent at implementing GGPO.Wow, this is the first "lazy devs" post I've seen in the wild.
An important saying in software development that "nine women can't make a baby in one month", that's especially important to consider when It took 7-8 man years on just the engine level code to get rollback working in mortal kombat. 7-8 man years is about $1,000,000 in dev costs. That's probably an under estimate because that probably only covers the developer salaries, not counting QA and other supporting labor. That is not "a little more work".
Net code is an absolute pain the debug, and finding competent engineers is really hard. I had a boss almost cry when our graphics engineer left for another company because it took nearly a year to hire him in the first place. Network game play programmers aren't much easier to find.
Engines like Unreal and Unity have netcode frameworks you can get off the shelf and when you have investors who have deadlines they want you to hit you're going to go with something pre built that has been tested as opposed to spending a ton of time and money rolling your own.
In an industry where crunch is rampant, the reason is never lazy devs. The reason is badly made online is almost always time/budget constraints.
Definitely go with this rather than the other.at least terrible at prioritizing things that matter in their games.
That doesn't mean Japan doesn't have trouble with online in Japanese fighting games.Its not about them being lazy, its about japan being a small place with really good internet. Like I heard playing fighting games online during the dreamcast era and arcades was fine.
Small indie projects are by far the easiest to integrate random libraries laying around with. Your build pipeline, toolchains, devops processes, licensing negotiations, etc etc (before this was just made MIT), are significantly more complicated when you're supporting a massive project than when it's 5 guys who can just decide to do whatever they feel like.Most of this post is undercut by the fact that it's the small indie teams who have been the most consistent at implementing GGPO.
Punch Planet has it and I've heard that its staff is less than a half-dozen people total. The Sonic Smackdown devs previously bought a license for it and they have a grand total of 2 programmers. Lab Zero isn't exactly a huge studio either.
People are right to call companies like Namco and ArcSys lazy. Or if not lazy, at least terrible at prioritizing things that matter in their games. Capcom I'll give a partial pass to because they've at least been trying to implement their own in-house solution for this, rocky as it might have been.
People are right to call companies like Namco and ArcSys lazy. Or if not lazy, at least terrible at prioritizing things that matter in their games. Capcom I'll give a partial pass to because they've at least been trying to implement their own in-house solution for this, rocky as it might have been.
Its not about them being lazy, its about japan being a small place with really good internet. Like I heard playing fighting games online during the dreamcast era and arcades was fine.
Adding it to older, less intensive games is MUCH easier. The cost of computing the next frame is much less expensive on modern HW than doing so for a modern gameNot necessarily, GGPO was initially introduced to a whole sleuth of old games/roms.
It is definitely possible to bake this into Guilty Gear, regardless of how into its development cycle it is.
Unless of course you have some inside knowledge into its roadmap.
Every word of this being true doesn't allow for an excuse good enough to justify the state of online play in mainstream fighting games for this entire console generation.Small indie projects are by far the easiest to integrate random libraries laying around with. Your build pipeline, toolchains, devops processes, licensing negotiations, etc etc (before this was just made MIT), are significantly more complicated when you're supporting a massive project than when it's 5 guys who can just decide to do whatever they feel like.
If French-Bread can do it for Under Night In-Birth, any notable Japanese fighting game development team can.