Exactly? Obviously, itch.io would love to grow but the entire point is to sustain and allow for those on its platform to as well.
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GI: [Anno 1800 leaving Steam] might not bode well for the...strength of Steam's marketplace, it most likely is good for everyone else (See Staff Post)
- Thread starter benzopil
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Exactly? Obviously, itch.io would love to grow but the entire point is to sustain and allow for those on its platform to as well.
It is not good for the industry or the consumers if 3rd party games are locked to one store. It is not good when stores are paying developers to release their games to that store. That is not how PC market worked since 50 years ago.
Explain in this hypothetical future where storefronts are securing exclusives, how is it beneficial to customers?
But you just said yourself they were sustaining... uhhhhhhhhhhhh
it's great for the publisher, less so for the devs in most cases, and even more less so for the consumer. Wish the gaming press would stop just mindlessly repeating everything sweeney says, but whatever.
I'm not expecting the paying for exclusives strategy is something longterm, just a way to kickstart the store while they keep adding features and catching up in market share. At some point they can start competing with features instead and maybe partner up for exclusive content by actively paying into development rather than "stealing" content from Steam.
Of course this is just my own take and prediction and I'm happy to backtrack in a few years if it ends up not being the case.
Following what I wrote above, the benefit would be that the competition in the future would be shifted to store features as well as any exclusive games that are secured that might not be happening otherwise. So more games and better features than a potential future with Steam keeping it's monopoly.
As I said running store that is size of Steam is not possible with low cut. Most popular payment methods in Asia cost Valve up to 15%, and you want them to lower their cut below that? Also in some cases over 50% reviews on Steam come from games purchased outside of Steam where Valve gets 0%. If that is true for all sold copies do your math and see how much Valve gets.
Some PCGamer and PCGamesN articles are sponsored by Epic.
They already do this.
Holy shit, I thought "you know what, I'll actually read the article and see if they make any compelling points".
There's a single paragraph on Epic Store. They mention "friends list" as if that's the only annoyance, and then just baselessly claim that things are going to improve. There's no depth. There's no nuance. There's no intelligent commentary, no accurate representation of the situation, just a game's journalism site writing "Epic Good, Steam Bad".
The coverage on this whole situation is an absolute joke. I don't believe for even a second that anyone's getting paid off, but the journalism has been so awful that it almost feels like we're looking at a bunch of bought articles, except Epic haven't had to pay a dime.
There's a single paragraph on Epic Store. They mention "friends list" as if that's the only annoyance, and then just baselessly claim that things are going to improve. There's no depth. There's no nuance. There's no intelligent commentary, no accurate representation of the situation, just a game's journalism site writing "Epic Good, Steam Bad".
The coverage on this whole situation is an absolute joke. I don't believe for even a second that anyone's getting paid off, but the journalism has been so awful that it almost feels like we're looking at a bunch of bought articles, except Epic haven't had to pay a dime.
As a purely console gamer can someone explain to me what's wrong with the EGS?
On the surface to me it looks like Epic are offering a better cut to devs to be on their platform and if that means Valve respond then isn't that competition a good thing for consumers rather than have one company basically own the PC gaming market?
On the surface to me it looks like Epic are offering a better cut to devs to be on their platform and if that means Valve respond then isn't that competition a good thing for consumers rather than have one company basically own the PC gaming market?
Epic's explanation makes sense for the time being. Basically, it's using exclusives to establish itself in the marketplace and then in about a year it will slow or stop given that it has established a foothold by which games will come to the platform naturally. As big as Fortnite's community is, it's not necessarily enough to create the rapid expansion for the platform such that would Epic be able to create something that could compete on an even level with Steam and be sustainable this fast otherwise.
It doesn't explain why the Epic Store had to launch as a featureless mess, but it does give some perspective on the store's goals with regards to exclusives and heavy curation.
No Epic is paying publishers and developers to release game only on Epic Store. In case of Ubisoft on UPlay too. They are paying them to remove their games from all other stores like GMG or Voidu.
So, let me ask again - how is securing exclusives beneficial to customers?
It isn't. It's beneficial for Epic, Big Publishers, and the independent devs that pass Epic's 'heavy curation' and aren't 'crappy'.
Epic been caught spying on the competition through their users' computers. That is the biggest red flag of them all.
Not to mention the likes of Jim Sterling, who has had it out for Steam because of Greenlight for years.
Valve don't own the PC market at all, that's a lie that's spread about for some reason. There's a vast range of alternative storefronts available. There are so many different places to buy games, it's one of the best things about PC gaming.
Except when Epic buys a game. Then you can only buy your game at one single place. And it's a place that spy's on your computers and also doesn't let certain countries access it. Also I hope you don't use Linux.
Valves only response to counter what Epic are doing are to purchase their own exclusives, which is not good for consumers at all. Valve already offer a phenomally better storefront than Epic, they vastly outpace them in terms of features. The idea that they could counter Epic by adding more features is just ludicrous.
Of course not. Barely breaking even isnt a sustainable model at all. Barely breaking even means "Barely being in the black". How is "barely making it" sustainable ?
Nah, there's better deals to be had on Steam games of you shop around on the 3rd party sites, something Epic only allows one site to do seemingly begrudgingly. In those cases, even when redeemed on Steam, Valve gets 0%.
Discussion Guidelines
Official Staff Communication
Given the volatility in recent Epic Game Store related threads we have decided that some clearer guidelines are required to cultivate healthier discussion.
- Do not enter these threads in bad faith. If we conclude that your goal is to misrepresent the concerns of other users or rile people up, you will be moderated. Intent matters here. Honest questions or commentary about the differences and similarities between the Epic Games Store and other storefronts are fine. Deliberately and dismissively attempting to troll concerned members on those topics is not okay. These discussions must be held in good faith and in a civil manner.
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How is it the game media all portray Epic as the good guys when they are pieces of crap and very anti consumer. They are using Fortnite money to remove games that were coming to Steam and never funded wholy by Epic in the first place. Instead, they end up on EGS that is vastly inferior to Steam in every possible way. So I would have to pay more money for a game that's exclusive to a game launcher / store that's lacking in so many basic features, which is a joke for a store launching in 2018/2019 (especially after spying on Steam for so long) .
Cheers all. Guess you don't get the full story from the press!
Thank you, Game Informer, for another example of why I don't read any gaming publications or traditional video game websites. 95% of them don't count a capable journalist among them. Ad fueled, one sided garbage is what most of them are capable of delivering. The Epic store has unveiled a lot them once again. Who needs the consumer viewpoint and critical thinking when you have Game Informer, PC gamer, Eurogamer etc.
-Steam has family share
-Steam natively supports a lot of different controllers (DS4, Switch Pro) without installing another program for it
-Steam lets me stream with one button click
-Steam has a whole VR plattform and supports every major headset
-Steam has refunds more than "twice a year"
-Steam has cloud saves (comint got EGS)
-Steam has achievements (coming to EGS)
-Steam lets you earn pocket change just by owning games (Steam trading cards)
-Steam developed Proton, so 99% of Windows games can be played on Linux
-Steam has a SteamLink App so I can stream games to my Android device, even when you are 8000km gone from your PC now
-Steam support China (Epic is actively blocking chinese IPs)
-Steam has BPM so you can play games on your TV without changing monitor inputs
-Steam has guides so you can open a collectible guide while playing a game without alt-tabbing or if you are playing on TV without using your phone/tablet
-Steam has Steam Music so you can listen to your music with one button click without having another program
-Steam has developer/publisher pages so I can see what other games the dev has, what games are coming out etc.
-Steam has reviews so if a game is buggy I can see whats wrong
-Steam has discussion forums so if I need help, people can help me
-Steam has servers almost in every country (in China in Beijing, Chengdu etc., in germany in Düsseldorf, Frankfurt etc.)
-Steam has a customizable profile page
-Steam offers free space to upload your screenshot and share them with friends and the community.
-Steam lets me wishlist things (coming to EGS)
Thats for me from a consumer standpoint.
Imagine you are used to all the things you are used to on PS4, then you have to launch another "icon", but that icon wont let you have any features you have. No achievements, no 3rd party controller support, no cloud saves, no access to the PSN menu etc.
Longterm means more money for game developers via the revenue share. Means less studios going under. Less layoffs. More games. If Epic was being honest, the exclusives thing is only going to be for around a year. If they're being honest the storefront will be vastly improved in a year, too. Just a personal view, but I'm willing to deal with a shitty launcher and exclusives for around a year if it means more money for developers.
I dont want to sound rude, but it's incredibly naive to think devs are seeing a single cent from these paid exclusives.
You really believe in trickle down economics, that making a publisher richer, the devs will get a little bit of that money ?
Also, even if they are being honest, take a look at their long term roadmap. In a year, EGS will barely be on the level of 2009 Steam. Barely.
Again that 12% cut is lie if you want to run global store like Steam. You can't achieve that. Epic can do it now because they pass expenses to customers and don't have features that cost that additional money.
You honestly think EGS is going to fix the lay-off problem when you have Activision announcing record revenue, but doing mass layoffs regardless?
Some outlets are publishing content sponsored by Epic Games and of course they will defend Epic Games practices.
https://www.pcgamesn.com/fortnite/fortnite-netcode-guide
Lol, get real, the developers aren't going to see more money, it will all go to the publisher who will gladly pocket the extra money. Do you think Reaganomics/Republican trickle down economics actually works?
I'm starting to wish that publications were forced to publish who sponsors or buys ads from them. Because they're clearly only reflecting one side of the conversartion. The one that can give them a direct income before sales.
@STAFF: This is exactly what I mean. You don't bite the hand that feeds you. There's a reason why this is a part of our conversation and I honestly believe it should be discussed, not as hyperbolic vitriol or conspiracy.
Some outlets are publishing content sponsored by Epic Games and of course they will defend Epic Games practices.
https://www.pcgamesn.com/fortnite/fortnite-netcode-guide
@STAFF: This is exactly what I mean. You don't bite the hand that feeds you. There's a reason why this is a part of our conversation and I honestly believe it should be discussed, not as hyperbolic vitriol or conspiracy.
Haha and that's why i can't take any of those people other than schreier serious.Some outlets are publishing content sponsored by Epic Games and of course they will defend Epic Games practices.
https://www.pcgamesn.com/fortnite/fortnite-netcode-guide
Quick question on the last part:
How do I call a media claiming "We NEED to support Epic Store against Steam" ?
What do I say about a media's integrity when they have a promoted article about a company's engine on a new game being exclusive to the next storefront of that company ?
What do I say if a publication is going to host an event and that the company they've been praising might be a major partner of that event ?
I'd love if even a single games journalist would call them out on their pro-dev nonsense when we factually know that the Ubisoft deals, Metro Exodus, Obsidians Outer Worlds have happened behind the developers back without them knowing about it, because, according to Tim Sweeney, publishing strategies are up to the publisher mkay
I'd love it if even a single games journalist would shed some light on how the famous 12% cut is sustained by passing additional fees onto the consumer in third-world countries like Finland and costcutting features like discoverability tools, expecting devs to pay additional revenueshares to streamers instdead.
I'd love if even a single games journalist would call them and the responsible devs out on selling kickstarter backers that were promised steam- and gog versions to Epic.
But Epic good steam bad
I'd love it if even a single games journalist would shed some light on how the famous 12% cut is sustained by passing additional fees onto the consumer in third-world countries like Finland and costcutting features like discoverability tools, expecting devs to pay additional revenueshares to streamers instdead.
I'd love if even a single games journalist would call them and the responsible devs out on selling kickstarter backers that were promised steam- and gog versions to Epic.
But Epic good steam bad
Trickle down economics doesn't work. All that's going to happen is that publishers will be making more money, I doubt any devs are seeing it, they're just getting their salary.
The only devs that are being helped here are the very small selection of Indies who get to be exclusive.
I can see EGS acquiring more and more and more AAA title exclusives until I (and the rest of the gaming community) can't resist anymore; the biggest red flag at this point is the fact they spy on your computer. Is there anyway to turn this feature off or opt out?
The press stance is easy to understand when you realize they are only looking at the 12% angle and nothing else. In simple terms it is great for devs and to them that should be something worth talking about but none of them are even bothering to see it from a consumer perspective. The 12% cut allows devs to make more money and in turn keeps more of them in business to continue to make great games and so that should be something worth celebrating, right? But they don't seem to get that for many people this is a worse deal with no upside except to Epic and devs.
For customers this is like the 12% cut but in complete reverse. Steam has given people all these useful features that help improve the PC gaming experience on top of the games but now you are telling them to throw all that away and come over to the EGS instead. You are asking them to pay the same but get less in return, it is no wonder people are pissed about this.
I don't think the press is in cahoots with Epic but they are surely not giving a damn about the consumer in any of this.
For customers this is like the 12% cut but in complete reverse. Steam has given people all these useful features that help improve the PC gaming experience on top of the games but now you are telling them to throw all that away and come over to the EGS instead. You are asking them to pay the same but get less in return, it is no wonder people are pissed about this.
I don't think the press is in cahoots with Epic but they are surely not giving a damn about the consumer in any of this.
You're describing trickle down economics - and the transition from physical to digital has demonstrated already, the customer will see none of those margins. I'm sure they'll get their launcher in acceptable shape at some point, but it still doesn't explain how shifting your library to a different launcher has benefited you outside of basic aesthetics.
Nobody, including Tim Sweeney, expects Epic to ever match Valve in featureset. "Customers will go to where the games are"