The author themselves didn't really answer the question in a convensing way though. Sony talk too just differently.
-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
GI.biz: "The industry is looking at Sony to see what's next for the console business. At the moment, Xbox is the one providing all the answers"
- Thread starter Neat
- Start date
How isn't it? If you and me are talking in a conversation and I'm dominating the conversation what does that look like? What do you think dominating the conversation means? Generally it's when one party is talking way more than the other. It's not about "everyone else" and their opinion on the conversation topics. Let's even look at the article and see if the writer clarifies what they're talking about.
"Sony's understated approach to PR in 2019 has been in direct contrast to Microsoft, which has done nothing but talk, talk, talk, talk all year long. Whether it's about new consoles, streaming platforms, subscription services, games... even family settings. Microsoft has been leading the conversation, it has attended all the big shows, and has been sharing its vision in a coherent way. Microsoft has a plan and is happy to tell us all about it."
Oh, so the writer does clarify, giving examples. You can say that you don't think them dominating the conversation has mattered, which is basically the point you tried to make about E3, but I think it's pretty clear that this year Microsoft has been a lot more eager to talk than Sony.
Okay, so you acknowledge that this isn't a massive doom and gloom article? Fine, then make arguments about the points you disagree with, have a blast with that. It's just weird to see people blow a pretty even handed article into something it is not.
Yes, the writer actually lays out that one big difference this year is that Microsoft have talked way more than Sony. And then they give reasons why that could be a bad strategy and why that could be a good strategy, trying to look at both long term and short term. I don't think anything said in that article is a particularly wild thing to say.
That's the thing; Microsoft is speaking more/louder, but Sony's saying just as much, in fewer words, and is engaging more with the audience as a result. That's what dominating the conversation looks like, and any attempt to turn a blind eye to that while being concerned about a platform that's at the top of its game right now is therefore going to get a side eye as an attempt to be gloomy about a product that's killing the competition, and looks poised to continue to do so.
If you think dominating the conversation means something else, that's your issue, but I don't agree with whatever the hell it is you're on about (clearly), so we're probably better off dropping it here.
This isn't remotely true though. Outside of attending E3, I think the only way one could feel that Microsoft has been dominating the conversation is from a point of bias as a result of them simply paying more attention to the Microsoft media and talking points.
In reality, they've been sharing roughly the same sort of information, only Sony's information consistently gathers far more widespread coverage and consumer or gamer conversation or interest, especially the games themselves.
Microsoft has been talking briefly about their next gen system, vaguely about their plans for streaming, multiple studios or acquisitions, commitment to more platforms, one major next gen game and less than Sony in the way of remaining tentpole current gen games, then there's Game Pass.
Sony has been giving much more information about their next gen system, has very little information about their next gen games but far more coverage on major remaining tent pole current gen games. They've been constantly updating features, pricing and info about their streaming service, their commitment to backwards compatability, to crossplay, VR, remote play, vaguely about cloud infrastructure or partnerships, new Disney PlayStation Vue partnership etc, they've also spoken about acquisitions and had their own etc.
Given all this, how exactly have you concluded Microsoft are the ones dominating the conversation, when online views, social media, coverage, sales numbers, growth, amount of information available on key points, and all other metrics, if anything point to the opposite being true?
I think people like yourself and the author are confusing different strategies from the two companies with who's doing more talking, providing answers or leading the conversation.
Just because Sony isn't focusing on the same things as Microsoft, doesn't mean they're not sharing just as much if not more information. The two platforms simply have different priorities and goals. Microsoft has to shout about new things, because existing stuff simply hasn't made enough of a dent to push Sony off their perch for nearly two decades now. Whereas Sony is going to adopt a more of the same but better approach, something that's worked for them time and time again.
Last edited:
Nobody counts the switch as a 9th gen console. Not even Nintendo does. It's a current gen system that play exclusives and watered down ports of current gen games. It's not a 9th gen console.
At least in Japan, the LTD hardware sales of the Switch over in Japan has already surpassed the PS4's hardware LTD sales in just a few years time, given by Media Create.
PlayStation 4's Japanese release - February 22, 2014.
Switch's Japanese release - March 3, 2017.
Last edited:
*shrug* that nigga started it lol don't nobody care he don't like my opinion of the article
9th gen do not mean where the games come from
it's not a mid gen refresh since it do not play wiii U games it plays ports of Wii U games just like ps4 did with PS3 games
and yes Nintendo do count it as ninth gen it is there 9th gen system nothing confusing about it
Bizarre since Sony always had bigger MAUS, and Ms had w10 and Xbox in the math
I feel you're conflating effectiveness with the actual strategy being done. A completely different argument. Like talking about how much engagement, that's effectiveness. Like talking about the reasons behind their strategies, now you're motives, again a different argument. And I don't even disagree with those things.
I do find it telling though, that you're excluding the biggest gaming trade show to make the argument that they've engaged in conversation in the around the same amount, that's absurd. Sony have been a bit more low key this year, I think that's a fact. I mean they've been releasing their information about their new console in wired blogs. You can make the argument that it's not a bad thing to avoid E3 and to more low key in their rollout, you can even make the argument that's it's good. However I don't understand the argument that says that they've been just as eager as Microsoft to try and monopolise the conversation. I don't know how we look at them skipping E3 and then make that argument.
Like let's even look at the PS Now as an example. Yep, they updated the price as you noted, but beyond that I have no idea how that ties into next gen Sony plans. Whereas I kinda know that for Microsoft and gamepass and XCloud, because they've been speaking about it. The actual PS Now price update was weird as fuck to me, because that's a great opportunity to talk about what the service is going to be going forward, and they didn't.
Or their acquisitions, I know they bought Insomniac and they're interested aquiring studies, but I don't really know what their ethos is regarding this or what type of studios they would like to acquire, and how it ties into their larger next gen plans in the same way I know it for Microsoft, and I know this because Microsoft have been talking about it.
Now we all know why they're doing so much talking, because they've not been in a good position but still they've been talking.
The only thing I know about Sony next gen is hardware stuff, so specs, they've going to have a powerful console and it's going to be backwards compatible but pretty much all stuff assumed or speculated on before they even said it. It's nice to get details though, I'll say that. But there are still a lot of blanks to be filled in, just in regards to what their ethos and strategy is going to be for next gen. We can speculate on it, but to me, they haven't laid it out yet. This isn't the worse thing in the world, it probably may not matter at all, but that's the state of things right now.
Okay sure. You're completely ignoring the writer's to try and argue, that's the problem. Do you honestly think that people are arguing about who gets the most engagement on YouTube or forums? You keep moving the goalpost to "well actually I think despite that they've been more effective because they get as much if not more engagement." Sure, I don't necessarily disagree, but that's a different point.
With the rest of the stuff you said... Welp, next time just start your posts with, "I think Sony are in such a good position that any somewhat negative opinion about what they've done this year is a shit piece." That would be more effective.
It's a loud and obnoxious minority screaming their frustration out for everyone to hear. In reality Sony has all the momentum and mindshare going into next gen.
Yep. It's a combination of a small group of fanatics shouting very loudly, and the amplification of the (mostly American) press who constantly fail to realise the discrepancy between the two and over-egg Microsoft. We've been here before, we will undoubtedly be here again. The press cannot get over this it seems.
Yeah this is what confused me. I feel like I know WAY more about PS5 than either the next Xbox or XCloud. Have I missed something?
I think Microsoft is obligated to shout about Game Pass and sell it to both developers and gamers as loud as it can, because honestly if the service isn't a measurable success beyond this generation, I feel like Xbox is going to be in a tough spot when the PlayStation brand that is as strong as its ever been continues to be stronger than ever, and has comparable services that are only going to improve in both quality and scope.
In almost every other category other than what seems like this gen's hail mary move for Xbox, I think Sony has had as much if not more to say.
In almost every other category other than what seems like this gen's hail mary move for Xbox, I think Sony has had as much if not more to say.
can a Wii U disc work on a switch like a ps4 with ps4 pro ??
mid gen refresh means past console work with new console
switch do not work with Wii U or any handheld system......it's altogether a new system
.
It's almost like Sony has dominated the conversation.
That's not the point. It didn't bring new technology into play, it's pretty much a powered Wii U. A gen only starts when the baseline development platform changes and as for now, the baseline is the PS4/xone.
You won't see official media claiming switch is 9th gen, not even Wikipedia considers it, less do ERA and other gaming forums.
I did not omit E3, I mentioned it. That's literally the only example that exists. The funny thing is, even though Sony missed E3, two of the biggest, most discussed and viewed games of that E3 period were Sony exclusives (Death Stranding and Final Fantasy VII), and even the next gen info Microsoft did release was essentially an equally vague re-tread of what Sony had announced earlier. Most or many agree that Microsoft's E3 was a lacklustre one, so it's not like they really capitalised on this point of difference.
And you're forgetting that outside of E3, Sony also had their games showcased or announced at State of Plays, not to mention had media events for specific games, as well as their own Chinese games show and attendance at TGS.
On your point about xCloud vs PS Now, again, completely misplaced. You and I don't know what Microsoft's specific plans are for xCloud, only that it will eventually exist, whereas we do for PS Now because it's already available. What will xClouds pricing be? What games will or will not be included? How will it perform? What regions will it be available to? We don't actually know anything concrete about it, only PR bluster and info about pre-release tests or beta usage.
On the other hand, for PS Now we know all of those things, because it is already available. Naturally we don't know what improvements will be made for next gen beyond Azure bolstering, but we still have more of an idea than we do for xCloud, since we can go off its current application.
Also, PS Now didnt just get a price drop, it got downloadable games, more regions, and more tentpole games support. Plus there was improved remote play support, including all Android devices.
On acquisitions, again, you don't know Microsoft's "ethos regarding acquisitions or what type of studios they would like to acquire", not beyond PR fluff and insider rumours. At the end of the day, these are largely financial business decisions, and we have no knowledge of that side of things.
All you know is Microsoft has acquired several studios, mostly because they had to, to remain remotely competitive as both Nintendo and Sony have been dominating on the first party front, something that isn't looking to change any time soon.
And it's not just knowing PS5's specs, but a few specific details about those specs, as well as a release date, knowledge it will support backwards compatibility and crossplay, that it will continue support of both VR and PS Now, that it will have an entirely new controller and so on. Much of this stuff you do not know for Microsoft's next gen system.
Honestly, I think you have a rather warped perception of both the quantity and content of information both platforms have been promoting or highlighting, clouding how you view said coverage or information.
Last edited:
There's no point in trying. Some people want to be purposely ignorant of what is actually happened. No one that keeps up with this could possibly say that Microsoft has said more than Sony when clearly we got more info on what the ps5 is (fuck we don't even get an actual name for the next Xbox)
I didn't say you omitted E3, you said "Outside of attending E3", to me that's excluding a huge thing.
And, You keep retreating to engagement as if that's an argument I'm making, this is something I've pointed out multiple times and you just keep doing it.
Just to point out, we're talking about company communication, so when you do this thing where you go write certain things off as "PR Fluff" it seems weird to me. What do you think we're talking about here?
In a conversation about company communication, When I say "I kinda have a sense of what their ethos is about product Y" do you think I mean that I'm actually sitting into their meetings or that I've seen them publicly communicate their narrative is about product Y.
PR myth making and narratives, that's what we're talking about. Maybe you don't find that valuable or think it means anything, and that's a valid personal viewpoint, but this is stuff a huge part of company communication, which is what we're talking about!!! And Sony have traditionally been really good at this, in my view.
Let's finish with PS Now, I think this is a really good example of the impasse we're at in this conversation. You seem to be talking about individual details, while I'm talking about larger narratives. I say " I have no idea how that ties into next gen Sony plans.", I didnt talk about pricing or how it performs or anything like that. And you point out that they added God of War (and other games) to the service and now support more regions. Yes that is a new piece of info they announced, however it doesn't give a larger view of what the service is going to be going forward, which matters given that they're actively talking about another platform they will be releasing next year. This isn't the end of the world, but it's something worth noting.
Maybe to put it in your terms, Microsoft engages in way more PR fluff than Sony right now.
The Switch is the first system of the current console generation.
Not only did it come out at the usual time frame for a new console generation (around 5 years, same as Nintendo systems normally do) and marked the end of the company's support for the previous system, but it also runs on an entirely different architecture than the previous system.
When the next Xbox and PS5 are released, they will join the Switch.
The Switch is all new technology, completely unrelated to the Wii U. Just because the end result of the graphics are similar compared to the competition, it doesn't change the fact games have to be written entirely differently for the system. The baseline for development changes with market share, not console generation. The PS4 is still the baseline because it is the one on most people's homes. Its why there were so many games built for 360 and PS3 (like Destiny, Watch Dogs, Assassins Creed, etc) in the first few years of the PS4 and Xbox One's life.
Last edited:
The Switch is a generation 8 console.
Generation 9 hasn't started yet.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eighth_generation_of_video_game_consoles
They are not gonna make a new page on ninth generation systems when only one system that could qualify exists. Heck, the page you linked alone has been flagged for deletion since 2011 because people didnt think the Wii U counted as 8th generation back then. Sound familiar?
It's not up for debate.
I'm just letting you know how the current generation of consoles is defined, and the Switch is definitely in it.
Article seems very ill informed and is dripping with western bias.
I'm amazed these publications and journalists just do not seem to learn. Can't wait to read the one where we are told not to read too much into PS5's inevitable launch success.
I'm amazed these publications and journalists just do not seem to learn. Can't wait to read the one where we are told not to read too much into PS5's inevitable launch success.
Good luck finding official sources supporting switch is a 9th gen console. You won't find it.
Not up to debate? Even Wikipedia alone still debates on it, every other month is gets changed from 8th to 9th. The reason its on 8th now is because news sources use NPD data of it selling against the PS4 and Xbox One. Which, of course, makes sense right now, but that same logic would put the Dreamcast the same generation as the N64 and PS1, and the Xbox 360 against the PS2 and Gamecube.
Last edited:
yea but if you don't speak on MAU and the other do you dominate the MAU talk ^_^
I think the entire conversation around gen 8 vs gen 9 with the Switch is meaningless. The Switch will not be able to run multiplatform games designed for the PS5, XB2, and PC during the years those consoles will be selling.
If the discussion around gen 8 or gen 9 is framed around Nintendo only, sure, Switch can be a gen 9 console. If people are discussing the overall market, especially regarding multiplatform releases, it is misleading or meaningless to say the Switch is gen 9.
If the discussion around gen 8 or gen 9 is framed around Nintendo only, sure, Switch can be a gen 9 console. If people are discussing the overall market, especially regarding multiplatform releases, it is misleading or meaningless to say the Switch is gen 9.
I don't think it does change from 8th to 9th regularly on Wikipedia: when was the last time it was changed?
Yes, it's nonsense.
Sony has showed off a lot this year exclusive to their platform - death stranding, FF7 remake...
And the next-gen details they've disclosed has been more than Microsoft.
Clickbait article for sure
Exactly.
And the xCloud vs. PSNow posts that put PSNow behind, inferior to xCloud are hilarious..we know more about xcloud yet it's still in beta. lol
I can't remember a time when an actual working product is dismissed when compared to a future one.
on that basis the article does nothing to actually backup MS being more effective or leading the discussion. If it's about engagement then where are the numbers? I'd actually be interested to see them - shouldn't have been hard to source basic social media/search impressions for PlayStation 5 vs Scarlett to actually try and measure which so being more effective?
a subjective opinion by the author about which is being more effective is completely nullified without any data
Yeah, it totally is subjective. But it's not really an argument about effectiveness or engagement. And just as a side note, in a world where all communication was equal, I still would expect the PS5 to have more engagement because they have a way bigger fanbase/owners of consoles.