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Gotdatmoney

Member
Oct 28, 2017
14,500
It's dumb that people want to shit on corporations when they do bad but when they do something positive they can't give even the basic amount of credit.

Like no shit corporstions need to bw kept in check and held accountable. But not every initiative is fueled by evil intention. Shit is so dumb. Vast majority of us work for companies. Is every good thing your company participates in fueled by "evil intentions"?

Shit is so annoying. This isn't smart or enlightened. Its actually super dumb.
 

corasaur

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,988
It's dumb that people want to shit on corporations when they do bad but when they do something positive they can't give even the basic amount of credit.

Like no shit corporstions need to bw kept in check and held accountable. But not every initiative is fueled by evil intention. Shit is so dumb. Vast majority of us work for companies. Is every good thing your company participates in fueled by "evil intentions"?

Shit is so annoying. This isn't smart or enlightened. Its actually super dumb.

there are also probably ad writers someplace thrilled that a constructive idea made it through the approval process.
 

SoH

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,738
Fucking lol at this exchange from the Marty tweet.
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Surfinn

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,590
USA
Lol so many people failing to read or outright disingenuously ignoring Dollar Shave Club's intent, incredible
 

EN1GMA

Avenger
Nov 7, 2017
3,277
The people who are offended by this ad are the people who benefit from the actions displayed. They don't want to be told their actions are negative or wrong. Bullying or solving a problem with a fight is OK as long as their kid is the one not getting beaten on. Cat calling or placing their hand on a woman's arm or leg is nothing more than a little playful behavior. It's manly and telling them otherwise makes you a feminist backing loser.

When society has been giving your shitty actions a pass for generations, you don't want it to change. You want to continue to benefit from it.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,705
"toxic masculinity" is the NICE way to frame this advice

it presents pervasive negative behavior exhibited by many men as being unfortunately socially conditioned, painting the image that men are also victims of their circumstances and that not only can they grow beyond that and become better, but the only reason is for their current state is external to them and therefore not their fault as an individuals

a far more blunt presentation of the issue is that many, many individual men are all CHOOSING TO prioritize their own desires over treating others with basic respect and recognizing their boundaries - that there is no external force of "toxic masculinity" that unconsciously conditions men to treat people poorly, but instead that they are all individually garbage people who make a voluntary and informed decision to detract from the world and who simply have not been held accountable

"toxic masculinity" was workshoped as a concept to be minimally offensive to men who need that advice, but it STILL is taken as an attack because those men WANT to continue treating others so objects
 
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Rookhelm

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,691
Man, so many people getting "offended" and "triggered" by a simple commercial who's ultimate message is "don't be a dick".

Youtube comments were a mistake.
 

Hefty

Member
Nov 9, 2018
28
One of the gripes I have with the ad and one of the reasons why I think it misses its mark a little bit is how it portray toxic masculinity as only perpetuated by men, for example during the "boys will be boys" symbolic scene with all the men in a line parroting the line only men are present, but I feel like both genders indulge in the perpetuation of toxic masculinity in society. It ain't only dads that say "boys will be boys", plenty of mothers do too(which is one of the reasons why I find unfair that the maternal figures seen in the ad are only portrayed as accepting and nothing else), and should have been a part of the ad, especially regarding the "held each other accountable part". Same thing with the bulling scenes, girls bully "hyper masculine non-conforming" boys very often(I sadly know personally way too much about this).
I think the ad misses its mark because it focuses exclusively on the male part of responsibility while pretty much ignoring the female part, which I think is still pretty important when talking about this issue. Toxic masculinity is a gender relations problem that bite it's own tail, I think the ad should have focus on everyone's responsibility and need to be better. And yeah I get that Gillette is predominantly a men brand but the message it wanted to portray is an important one and I think it needed to be more inclusive and complete.
 

belinho3

Member
Dec 30, 2017
65
I won't comment on the ad itself, but it's funny to see a company that pays women 28% less, has children in Indonesia working for a better world, and where the CEO makes x287 of the average workers salary.

The message is important, but let's not forget this is a very conscious "product", and big brands don't really care about people
 

LookAtMeGo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,136
a parallel universe
One of the gripes I have with the ad and one of the reasons why I think it misses its mark a little bit is how it portray toxic masculinity as only perpetuated by men, for example during the "boys will be boys" symbolic scene with all the men in a line parroting the line only men are present, but I feel like both genders indulge in the perpetuation of toxic masculinity in society. It ain't only dads that say "boys will be boys", plenty of mothers do too(which is one of the reasons why I find unfair that the maternal figures seen in the ad are only portrayed as accepting and nothing else), and should have been a part of the ad, especially regarding the "held each other accountable part". Same thing with the bulling scenes, girls bully "hyper masculine non-conforming" boys very often(I sadly know personally way too much about this).
I think the ad misses its mark because it focuses exclusively on the male part of responsibility while pretty much ignoring the female part, which I think is still pretty important when talking about this issue. Toxic masculinity is a gender relations problem that bite it's own tail, I think the ad should have focus on everyone's responsibility and need to be better. And yeah I get that Gillette is predominantly a men brand but the message it wanted to portray is an important one and I think it needed to be more inclusive and complete.
Yeah! Women are toxic and bully people too!
 
Oct 26, 2017
8,206
I won't comment on the ad itself, but it's funny to see a company that pays women 28% less, has children in Indonesia working for a better world, and where the CEO makes x287 of the average workers salary.

The message is important, but let's not forget this is a very conscious "product", and big brands don't really care about people
People know that Gillette is a giant multi-national corporation. That doesn't mean the message is bad.

Nike does a lot of shit. Their Kaep ad had a good message.

We know. We can realize both things are true.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,948
I'm going to assume that while many of those dislikes are genuine, I truly believe the right wing propaganda machine has fired up their bots. This is a very easy target for russian troll farms to try and create further disunity on what should be a pretty simple message. I mean, look at the large number of troll accounts in this thread. These guys are reeling from the major failings and bad press from right wing ideology lately and grasping for anything.
 

OtherWorldly

Banned
Dec 3, 2018
2,857
I don't get why this is controversial. Are the folks who are against the ad saying bullying and cat calling acceptable social behavior ?
 

Gotdatmoney

Member
Oct 28, 2017
14,500
I won't comment on the ad itself, but it's funny to see a company that pays women 28% less, has children in Indonesia working for a better world, and where the CEO makes x287 of the average workers salary.

The message is important, but let's not forget this is a very conscious "product", and big brands don't really care about people

The people who pushed for this ad and were involved in the creative process most certainly are not the reason women make less, the company uses child labor or the CEO makes a shit ton of money.

It's like people just want to be openly obtuse. The brand can engage in good things that are commended while being scrutinized on their failures. One does not erase the other.
 

Pomerlaw

Erarboreal
Banned
Feb 25, 2018
8,536
One of the gripes I have with the ad and one of the reasons why I think it misses its mark a little bit is how it portray toxic masculinity as only perpetuated by men, for example during the "boys will be boys" symbolic scene with all the men in a line parroting the line only men are present, but I feel like both genders indulge in the perpetuation of toxic masculinity in society. It ain't only dads that say "boys will be boys", plenty of mothers do too(which is one of the reasons why I find unfair that the maternal figures seen in the ad are only portrayed as accepting and nothing else), and should have been a part of the ad, especially regarding the "held each other accountable part".

This is true but the ad is aimed at men.
 
Oct 25, 2017
41,368
Miami, FL
One of the gripes I have with the ad and one of the reasons why I think it misses its mark a little bit is how it portray toxic masculinity as only perpetuated by men, for example during the "boys will be boys" symbolic scene with all the men in a line parroting the line only men are present, but I feel like both genders indulge in the perpetuation of toxic masculinity in society. It ain't only dads that say "boys will be boys", plenty of mothers do too(which is one of the reasons why I find unfair that the maternal figures seen in the ad are only portrayed as accepting and nothing else), and should have been a part of the ad, especially regarding the "held each other accountable part". Same thing with the bulling scenes, girls bully "hyper masculine non-conforming" boys very often(I sadly know personally way too much about this).
I think the ad misses its mark because it focuses exclusively on the male part of responsibility while pretty much ignoring the female part, which I think is still pretty important when talking about this issue. Toxic masculinity is a gender relations problem that bite it's own tail, I think the ad should have focus on everyone's responsibility and need to be better. And yeah I get that Gillette is predominantly a men brand but the message it wanted to portray is an important one and I think it needed to be more inclusive and complete.
You are certainly correct that lots of women perpetuate and encourage certain hyper-masculine, toxic masculine, and related behaviors along with stereotypes that can intentionally or unintentionally pressure boys and men into less than ideal attitudes, actions, and beliefs about their role and how they interact with the world. Bullying of boys in particular is a very real thing, as are certain pressures.

However. In the final analysis, the ultimate source of those caricatures and images are men. Examining the negative role that women sometimes play is VERY far down list of issues impacting and perpetuating toxic masculinity. It probably disappears entirely if men just get their shit together. And as for this ad: It was an ad for men, about men talking to and encouraging other men. There's plenty of space and opportunity to address tertiary/tangential of issues...after we take care of our own house. In short: Worry less about women and more about the men who have principle control over the atmosphere and the tone and tenor of discussion around this subject.
 

Parch

Member
Nov 6, 2017
7,980
I'm going to assume that while many of those dislikes are genuine, I truly believe the right wing propaganda machine has fired up their bots. This is a very easy target for russian troll farms to try and create further disunity on what should be a pretty simple message.
Who knows just how much phony opinion gets recycled and floods the internet. That's why you can't put any faith in likes and dislikes. It doesn't mean a damn thing.
 

spam musubi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,380
One of the gripes I have with the ad and one of the reasons why I think it misses its mark a little bit is how it portray toxic masculinity as only perpetuated by men, for example during the "boys will be boys" symbolic scene with all the men in a line parroting the line only men are present, but I feel like both genders indulge in the perpetuation of toxic masculinity in society. It ain't only dads that say "boys will be boys", plenty of mothers do too(which is one of the reasons why I find unfair that the maternal figures seen in the ad are only portrayed as accepting and nothing else), and should have been a part of the ad, especially regarding the "held each other accountable part". Same thing with the bulling scenes, girls bully "hyper masculine non-conforming" boys very often(I sadly know personally way too much about this).
I think the ad misses its mark because it focuses exclusively on the male part of responsibility while pretty much ignoring the female part, which I think is still pretty important when talking about this issue. Toxic masculinity is a gender relations problem that bite it's own tail, I think the ad should have focus on everyone's responsibility and need to be better. And yeah I get that Gillette is predominantly a men brand but the message it wanted to portray is an important one and I think it needed to be more inclusive and complete.
Yeah! Women are toxic and bully people too!

"all lives matter"
 

Gotdatmoney

Member
Oct 28, 2017
14,500
Blaming the ad for not featuring women's role in perpetuating toxic masculinity ignores

1) Men are by far the primary, secondary tertiary etc reason the attitudes are wide spread as we held and still do hold the majority of the influencing power to spread or diminish social issues

2) It's not like dudes as a whole even listen to women when they are talking. If all it took was women saying "I don't like that shit" to stop it, we wouldn't even be having this discussion
 

Surfinn

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,590
USA
Blaming the ad for not featuring women's role in perpetuating toxic masculinity ignores

1) Men are by far the primary, secondary tertiary etc reason the attitudes are wide spread as we held and still do hold the majority of the influencing power to spread or diminish social issues

2) It's not like dudes as a whole even listen to women when they are talking. If all it took was women saying "I don't like that shit" to stop it, we wouldn't even be having this discussion
People are working really hard to ignore this core component. Like fucking overtime
 

Wackamole

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,935
And the BBC crafted an article around him and a few others with no followers.

This is how a lot of media sites work now they just mine twitter.

That Millennials Can't Watch Friends because it's homophobic thing that set off a ton of people here in rage about the death of free speech? That article was crafted from two random twitter users who basically said yeah re-watched Friends... some of it is kinda homophobic.... That was it but the narrative became Millennials are Cancelling Friends!!!!

It's all bullshit.
Haha... the profession of journalism sure has taken a hit.
 

Surfinn

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,590
USA
One time, in high school.. a girl objectified me. Yet I don't see women being addressed in this ad.

Accountability?!
 

DemonCarnotaur

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,229
NYC
I don't understand how an ad basically saying be respectful and not an ass, and hold your peers to that became offense to conservatives

like, what the fuck?

this is the least political ad ever - how fucking broken, insecure, and bitter of a person do you have to be to have an issue with this ad?
 

LookAtMeGo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,136
a parallel universe
Not being able to take any criticism without getting worked up about it and having to pass of blame somewhere else is not a very masculine thing to do. Or maybe it is. I don't know anymore.