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Google entering the Home Console race is not a good thing for the Consumers, the Developers, or the Industry and Art of Video Games (ethical issues)

Oct 27, 2017
333
I'm 99% sure I won't buy it, but I'm still interested to see what they're going to do. It might shake shit up and influence Sony and MS in some positive way, (eg controller design, online features and services, etc). I'm not saying it's likely to play out positively, but it's a possible outcome and it should be interesting either way.

Probably my best scenario is they come out with some cool exclusives before abandoning the console, and then I pick one up on clearance. I have a thing for oddball abadonware hw.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,780
Unethical or not (which company is ?) I think the console market needs a good shakeup to moveup things a little bit (online paywalls, no refunds and such).

But I understand the worries that when this company is Google.
 
Oct 25, 2017
267
I feel this article is relevant for the discussion if it hasn't been brought up.

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy...poses-breaking-up-amazon-google-and-facebook/

Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) today proposed breaking up Amazon, Google, and Facebook as part of a plan to regulate tech platforms as utilities.
In pitching her plan, Warren compared it to the federal government's antitrust case against Microsoft, which resulted in a 2001 settlement.

The antitrust case against Microsoft "helped clear a path for Internet companies like Google and Facebook to emerge," Warren wrote.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,257
I agree, I really dislike google as a company there products always feel incomplete and there not transparent, they make changes without informing and leave no other options than closing a door.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,535
I mean, I can understand the joke. Lot of people claiming anti-consumer practices were necessary for competition to happen and suddenly we're seeing a change of tune here.
Nuance.
Sony doesn’t have a monopoly. Nintendo and Ms historically sell about as much which keeps them on their toes. While other launchers exist, none have valve considering changes.
Epic isn’t perfect but they’re taking it seriously for now.
New console would be $300, launcher is free.

I get what they’re trying to go for, but it doesn’t work
 
Oct 25, 2017
25,377
You don't use Google Search, Maps, Chrome, YouTube, Gmail, or Android OS? Sounds tough.
Let’s see...
  • Search, still using for now, no immediate intention to move away
  • Maps, mostly using Apple Maps now
  • Chrome, currently researching alternative browsers to use, may switch to Firefox or Safari
  • Gmail, use
  • YouTube, use
  • Android, absolutely not
  • Google Assistant, no
  • Google login, no
  • Google Drive, minimally on accounts specifically made for them
I’ve done a pretty good job extricating myself from google. Still not fully done yet, but I’m attempting to go through further of course.
 
Mar 2, 2018
1,027
This entire thread is a stretch! None of your points makes it clear for anything you think might happen. Ergo, Google joining is fine to me...
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,163
Google's pushing of microtransactional skinnerbox garbage for their precious store cut when they were supposedly trying to increase visibility of quality mobile experiences (which chased away the vast majority of good mobile-first devs because of the direness of the whole situation) led us to this point, with TRRRIPEL-AY GAMES wanting more of our time and every possible dollar from our wallet instead of an upfront cost, even altering game design norms to get said dollars from us. They are quite literally one of the last companies we should want to try to establish itself in the gaming space. Jade Raymond had better be fucking making EXISTENTIAL BRAIN ORGASM FOREVER the game because short of an actual transcendental interactive experience that changes my life and alters the very nature of truth, I'm not going near any Google console nor supporting any developer that they moneyhat.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
3,971
Nuance.
Sony doesn’t have a monopoly. Nintendo and Ms historically sell about as much which keeps them on their toes. While other launchers exist, none have valve considering changes.
Epic isn’t perfect but they’re taking it seriously for now.
New console would be $300, launcher is free.

I get what they’re trying to go for, but it doesn’t work
It does, because Steam isn't a monopoly. How do you know the price already, by the way?
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,780
Nuance.
Sony doesn’t have a monopoly. Nintendo and Ms historically sell about as much which keeps them on their toes. While other launchers exist, none have valve considering changes.
Epic isn’t perfect but they’re taking it seriously for now.
New console would be $300, launcher is free.

I get what they’re trying to go for, but it doesn’t work

Yeah sure, as I said, it's only a change of tune when you might potentially be impacted. How do you know the new console would be 300 dollars ? Maybe they're planning a streaming service only ? Maybe it'll be the first push to the first full online console ? Maybe you can even play it on your web browser but with a membership fee ?
As I said, people clamoring for competition are now calling out possible anti-consumer behaviors. Oh the irony.
 
Oct 25, 2017
25,377
The alternatives are generally Microsoft or Apple, hence the hypocrisy
The day Apple farms my data and sells it relentlessly I will be up in arms against them.
The day Apple refuses to make a stand on important issues like Google does, I will be up in arms against them.
The day Apple tries to sweep known employee complaints regarding racial or sexual harassment under the rug, I will stand against them.

I’m totally happy not saving $400 on my iPhone in exchange for not selling my soul away, thanks.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,328
The day Apple farms my data and sells it relentlessly I will be up in arms against them.
The day Apple refuses to make a stand on important issues like Google does, I will be up in arms against them.
The day Apple tries to sweep known employee complaints regarding racial or sexual harassment under the rug, I will stand against them.

I’m totally happy not saving $400 on my iPhone in exchange for not selling my soul away, thanks.
Lol. I remember when Apple made a stand and broke their contract with Foxconn and their suicidal factories.
 
Oct 28, 2017
2,478
The day Apple farms my data and sells it relentlessly I will be up in arms against them.
The day Apple refuses to make a stand on important issues like Google does, I will be up in arms against them.
The day Apple tries to sweep known employee complaints regarding racial or sexual harassment under the rug, I will stand against them.

I’m totally happy not saving $400 on my iPhone in exchange for not selling my soul away, thanks.
Your iPhone is made by poorly paid employees in high-stress and low-compassion factories.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,526
The day Apple farms my data and sells it relentlessly I will be up in arms against them.
The day Apple refuses to make a stand on important issues like Google does, I will be up in arms against them.
The day Apple tries to sweep known employee complaints regarding racial or sexual harassment under the rug, I will stand against them.

I’m totally happy not saving $400 on my iPhone in exchange for not selling my soul away, thanks.
Apple is absolutely not a paragon of virtue.

They track everywhere you go with your iPhone.
They manufacture at Foxconn in conditions so poor the company had to put up suicide nets.
They sell and maintain a censored app store in China under the auspices of the Communist Party.

Seems really hypocritical to say "I don't use Google, but instead I use this company that is also highly morally stained." By your own metrics, you are very much "selling your soul away" when you purchase and use iPhone.
 
Oct 25, 2017
23,068
The day Apple farms my data and sells it relentlessly I will be up in arms against them.
The day Apple refuses to make a stand on important issues like Google does, I will be up in arms against them.
The day Apple tries to sweep known employee complaints regarding racial or sexual harassment under the rug, I will stand against them.

I’m totally happy not saving $400 on my iPhone in exchange for not selling my soul away, thanks.
Bloody hell, Google are bad but trying to paint Apple as somehow superior is a stretch.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,971
The day Apple farms my data and sells it relentlessly I will be up in arms against them.
The day Apple refuses to make a stand on important issues like Google does, I will be up in arms against them.
The day Apple tries to sweep known employee complaints regarding racial or sexual harassment under the rug, I will stand against them.

I’m totally happy not saving $400 on my iPhone in exchange for not selling my soul away, thanks.
You mean the same Apple that's cozying it up with Donald Trump?

They manufacture at Foxconn.
They have nets now, so it's cool.
 
Oct 25, 2017
25,377
Your iPhone is made by poorly paid employees in high-stress and low-compassion factories.
Apple is absolutely not a paragon of virtue.

They track everywhere you go with your iPhone.
They manufacture at Foxconn.
They sell and maintain a censored app store in China under the auspices of the Communist Party.

Seems really hypocritical to say "I don't use Google, but instead I use this company that is also highly morally stained."
Bloody hell, Google are bad but trying to paint Apple as somehow superior is a stretch.
Okay, so all companies use Foxconn.
Some companies use Foxconn and additionally do more.
Which one do I support?
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,424
Italy
Chrome, currently researching alternative browsers to use, may switch to Firefox or Safari
If you like Chrome but hate Google I suggest you try Vivaldi or Brave (the first puts emphasis on user customization, the second on privacy), both run on Chromium (which is open source) so you'd keep most of the things you like about Chrome without the bad things. Brave is also available on mobile.
 
Oct 25, 2017
882
The day Apple farms my data and sells it relentlessly I will be up in arms against them.
The day Apple refuses to make a stand on important issues like Google does, I will be up in arms against them.
The day Apple tries to sweep known employee complaints regarding racial or sexual harassment under the rug, I will stand against them.

I’m totally happy not saving $400 on my iPhone in exchange for not selling my soul away, thanks.
Selective arguments as if Apple has not committed unethical behavior. Foxconn is an easy example with a human life cost

They are all unethical, I don't have tunnel vision about it
 
Oct 27, 2017
562
RSA
Google is soon to be like a trillion dollar business, why be ’ok’ with them coming into the gaming space as well? It’s not like they’ll end up being some minor indie dev studio or up and coming publisher like Devolver.

They’ll fuck shit up and again, they aren’t starving for money.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,328
Okay, so all companies use Foxconn.
Some companies use Foxconn and additionally do more.
Which one do I support?
Yes, that was exactly the point. That you're a hypocrite. You're condemning one company and supporting the other company based on your personal preference but you pretend to do it because you're better.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,048
I'm happy to see them come in, competition is always good. I'm sure they will fuck up a lot, the real problem is that they tend to give up super easy when there is no champion inside Google who has a lot of seniority. I think most of the people they are hiring are new hires and may not have the juice to push forward daring or weird ideas or recover if the gaming division stumbles, repeatedly. That almost killed the xbox division under Mattrick.

I don't buy this idea at all that they are so big they will make things worse because of Youtube or their relationship with China or whatever. End of the day people play what they want, if they continuously deliver stuff nobody wants they will self correct.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,526
Foxconn is not the only issue here though.

Apple collaborates with authoritarian governments.
Apple tracks and uses your data without your permission.
Apple engages in a combination of lacking curation and arbitrary censorship.

Aren't those the reasons you don't like Google?
 
Oct 25, 2017
25,377
Selective arguments as if Apple has not committed unethical behavior. Foxconn is an easy example with a human life cost

They are all unethical, I don't have tunnel vision about it
They’re all unethical, because by definition capitalism means there can be no unethical consumption.
That doesn’t mean that I go ahead and cozy it up with the worst of the worst. As far as I am concerned, Google is flat out the worst corporation. I’m not comfortable with using their products and services to the extent possible.
 
Nov 6, 2017
710
Argentina
I mostly agree with the OP. The problem with Google seems to be double:
1) The amount of power they are amassing is unprecedented...
2) ...as is the gap between the potentially unethical use of that power and the generally positive brand image they have.

They are dominating too many crucial areas and the reactions against this have been few and far between, perhaps because this is a new stage of capitalism; we simply don´t have many textbooks to warn us about the possible consequences. Back in the nineties, when old evil Microsoft was at the peak of its powers, there were criticisms and resistances everywhere. Google grew by offering usually good products and services while the regulators were busy limiting Microsoft´s once unfathomable influence. They are just unstoppable, and most of their defeats seem to have come because of their own mistakes, and not because of plain competition.

That said, I ultimately hope that if they do reach success, this at least serves to incentivize innovation. Watching them and Microsoft go all-out will be interesting as a consumer.
 

Sec0nd

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
443


What reading this thread feels like.

The facts about Googld stated here aren't false. But most of them wouldn't even come close to linking to a potential gaming department of Google. Plus I bet you claim similar issues regarding Sony or Microsoft as a whole and try to link them to the PS4 and Xbone.
 
Oct 25, 2017
25,377
Foxconn is not the only issue here though.

Apple collaborates with authoritarian governments.
Apple tracks and uses your data without your permission.
Apple engages in a combination of lacking curation and arbitrary censorship.

Aren't those the reasons you don't like Google?
For a), Apple’s curated App Store (and moral policing on the App Store, for that matter) pisses me off; as far as the latter goes, however, it’s their store, and it’s not like I can’t consume content they don’t deem fit on their devices anyway.
Apple’s tracking and usage of data is nowhere close to Google’s. If you live in Europe, request a copy of all your data from Google and Apple, and look at the difference between what Apple is tracking and what Google is tracking. It’s not even a false equivalence, it’s no equivalence.
 
Aug 22, 2018
873


What reading this thread feels like.

The facts about Googld stated here aren't false. But most of them wouldn't even come close to linking to a potential gaming department of Google. Plus I bet you claim similar issues regarding Sony or Microsoft as a whole and try to link them to the PS4 and Xbone.

Wh do pages 2 to 17 look like?
 
Oct 25, 2017
25,377
This post is an attempt at some kind of parody right?
They’re all unethical, because by definition capitalism means there can be no unethical consumption.
That doesn’t mean that I go ahead and cozy it up with the worst of the worst. As far as I am concerned, Google is flat out the worst corporation. I’m not comfortable with using their products and services to the extent possible.
 
Oct 27, 2017
898
If you like Chrome but hate Google I suggest you try Vivaldi or Brave (the first puts emphasis on user customization, the second on privacy), both run on Chromium (which is open source) so you'd keep most of the things you like about Chrome without the bad things. Brave is also available on mobile.
Do Chrome extensions still work with those browsers?
 
Oct 25, 2017
882
They’re all unethical, because by definition capitalism means there can be no unethical consumption.
That doesn’t mean that I go ahead and cozy it up with the worst of the worst. As far as I am concerned, Google is flat out the worst corporation. I’m not comfortable with using their products and services to the extent possible.
Which is fine, but the illusion that Apple has the moral high ground is the same "console war" bullshit