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Google formally unveils the "Stadia" launching in 2019

Oct 27, 2017
12,198
A lot of these comments are too constrained on "now" and the limitations of "now." By releasing and going public with a service like this, Google is essentially hoping for a future that is centered around higher standardized internet speeds and is relying heavily on moving towards a streaming-based service. Yes there are trade-offs like modding, but there's a niche market for that which Google is clearly not targeting. Not everyone uses mods.
Now is now. Not some magical future where everyone has incredible internet speeds without data caps is not now, nor in the near future.
 
Oct 27, 2017
471
At least from what I've played of Nvidia's solution, you can still tweak you in-game settings like normal (since you're playing a steam game).
I wasn't talking about in-game settings. I was talking about editing .ini or other files to tune/fix/change stuff that cannot be changed in-game otherwise.
I assume that games made for this would remove graphical options since it'd be running off of Google's servers so they'd be always at the highest graphical settings.
 
Jun 9, 2018
595
Yes just like the music and movie future of today where you can't buy movies and music and can only stream through netflix and hulu
Interactive mediums are inherently different.

When you stream a movie or a video, the playback is still happening on your local device. The only difference is that the data file itself is sent to you from someplace else over the internet. When you stream a videogame your local machine isn't doing any of the rendering or running any of the game logic. You can record a Netflix movie and keep it forever, but you cannot "record" a local copy of a streaming-only game. Assuming that this streaming thing takes off and is widely adopted, why would companies ever want to offer a localized, piratable version of their product that requires them to do a lot more work?

I think it's guaranteed to happen eventually.
 
Oct 26, 2017
7,856
I trust the ID guy saying it only a took a few weeks to port it over, so that's not bad.
I don't think the time to port would be the problem, it'd be the money involved or potential loss of money. Why we don't get anything close to day 1 PSNow games and it's pretty much just MS who do it for Gamepass.
Why the complete lack of pricing is a worry, sub based and there's about a 0% chance it'll be getting consistent day 1 releases, if it's just pay full price to stream, there's a pretty good chance it's DoA and if it's free to play, well I'm sure we'd hear the execs laughing when they get told.
 
Oct 25, 2017
26,575
This will be massive, Google has turned YouTube and every other service they provide into a game store. Just imagine the Buy or play now button under every YouTube video to get the game you're watching. That must be something that causes Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo to reevaluate their plans.
is it a game store? we don't know. they didn't talk about that.

but I guess that's just consumer stuff, why would developers care
 
Oct 29, 2017
1,531
Seattle
Encoding is much different since it needs to be done (nearly) real time by the server...
Yes. And we have cloud computing for that, not your desktop under the desk. And not just any hardware either, vastly improved architecture specifically designed for this specific problem and optimized for scale and performance out the ass. This is a non-issue
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,147
For a lot of people this could be quite convenient and good to play games on. To me those people are more the casual players and that seems to be Google's audience. For others it will just be another way to play games.

I will never give up my PC but I'll definitely use it from time to time.
There was a dude playing it in a bathtub full of cheesy poofs. This ain't for casuals
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,211
Seems pretty dumb to use on-stage demos to dismiss the technology. Google Stream worked pretty well by most accounts. I'll wait to hear about people playing this in their own homes... all tests coming out of the conference aren't super useful either way.
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,541
is it a game store? we don't know. they didn't talk about that.

but I guess that's just consumer stuff, why would developers care
They did show you can be watching a Youtube video about a game and a "Buy" option pops up after the video is finished.

That is quite significant and could be a game changer.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,075
Phoenix
The only appeal for streaming to me is being able to shut my xbox or playstation or PC off, and continue my game on a phone or tablet for on the go gaming. I'm not really interested in a service that is just dedicated to streaming only. I want it to be an extension, or an added feature, to my already established home console or PC. I want to still own physical or digital copies of my games that run on local hardware, but just have the option to play on the go. I think XCloud will probably be what I am looking for, and I am sure Playstation has plans to fully flesh out PSNOW as well.

I will reserve judgement for stadia because I want to see what happens at launch.
 
Oct 27, 2017
918
I'm 99% sure the numbers DF had in that slide are all for streaming modes, i.e. the Xbox entry is you streaming your Xbone locally to PC. The PC entries are local streaming by steam link. The numbers make no sense otherwise. They should have been more specific.
"Stadia is actually on par with the Xbox One X being played locally"- Richard Leadbetter, literally there in the video. Maybe actually view the link before replying to the post next time?

-No mods.
-No config tweaking.
-No reshade or any other graphical changes.
-No way to bypass bugs, you'll be forced to wait until developers fix them. If they ever do...
-No communities keeping games alive years after release by creating content for them.
-No using cheat engine to counter ugly balances in some single player games.
-No way to check/analize how games are made.
-No way to find secrets or things left on the files.
-No game conservation as we don't know if every game will be always available.
-No enough speed in most countries for this kind of streaming to work.
-No control whatsoever over any part of the games.
And no reason to expect the PC scene is ever going to die because of streaming. This will (eventually) replace consoles, not the hobbyist PC scene.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,354
I'll try it, I imagine they'll hand our free trials and if you can hook up a MS, PS, or Nintendo controller it really is hassle-free trial.

I think they will hook a lot of people this way, not everyone plays FPS games and are worried about the input lag.
 
Nov 7, 2017
7,502
I don't think the time to port would be the problem, it'd be the money involved or potential loss of money. Why we don't get anything close to day 1 PSNow games.
Why the complete lack of pricing is a worry, sub based and there's about a 0% chance it'll be getting consistent day 1 releases, if it's just pay full price to stream, there's a pretty good chance it's DoA and if it's free to play, well I'm sure we'd hear the execs laughing when they get told.
People spend up to 1500$ on graphics cards to get the best versions of multiplatform games.

A streaming service that promises 60 fps Ultra for every game on the service is something that will excite tens of milliosn of people, even if it launches with Ass Creed Odysee, and a handfull of other games.
 
Oct 28, 2017
1,113
I agree with you, I think that all we need to do is look to other mediums of entertainment to understand what is most likely to happen. Yes, you can use Spotify, but you can also still buy CDs and hell even vinyls. People for some reason think it's always all or nothing. Their is no such thing as only one teir that covers everything. It's why you have multiple tries of smartphones. It's why every car company doesn't just make on type or level of car. You can buy a VW Jetta, a VW GTI, and a Lamborghini (owned by vw) all from the same company. All three of those products exist in the same space but are wildly different in teir as far as want, need. Income level etc. You can buy a c class Mercedes for the same price as a topline Honda Odyssey. Those same priced vehicles are to completely different people. People will bring up with me the barrier to entry with console v. Streaming. Again, the arguement could be made, why doesn't everyone just buy an $8000 Nissan Micra if you need a small car, why make different cars? That's a lower price entry than other small cars that bring four people. Again, people want different things
Yeah, angry gamers here really don't have nuiance and think every new innovation is a 0 sum game and eventually will take away their precious "traditional gaming" that they have had since the 70s. For next gen I am going more into VR so I will have a Quest for portable, a PSVR2 for my beefy VR, and this I will use for streaming 3rd party games depending on the price. Like you said, although digital/streaming has massively changed the music and movie industries you can still buy fucking vinyls if you want to and even vinyls of modern music.
 
I wasn't talking about in-game settings. I was talking about editing .ini or other files to tune/fix/change stuff that cannot be changed in-game otherwise.
I assume that games made for this would remove graphical options since it'd be running off of Google's servers so they'd be always at the highest graphical settings.
Oh. Then yeah, likely no .ini changes
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,177
For the people dismissing the AC jump gif, go look at the demo before that where he's using a mouse. Whats your excuse there?

All I can say is that if game streaming becomes the norm I'm glad I still have the FGC to fall back on. Those dudes wont ever stands for that type of latency.
 
Oct 27, 2017
559
The only positive I took from this was that Google are requiring devs to support Vulkan and Linux if they want their games to run on Stadia.

Hopefully this sees an uptick in support for games on Linux, especially on day one support of AAA games.
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,541
At least you got their marketing speech/push memorized.

Let’s ignore the obvious like data caps and reliable internet speeds in big parts of what I’m thinking would be one of their major markets in the US. Not to mention people’s unwillingness to pay more for better internet.

I digress. More likely I’m still meh on the idea or as of right now don’t care much for the idea.
It's not a marketing speech when it's reality.

I mean the business of traditional gaming hardware is honestly somewhat insane. If you told movie studios every 5-6 years their movies couldn't shown in any existing projector and they had to sit around and wait 2-3 years for a new projector tech to become the norm to get to a reasonably wide audience, every movie studio would throw a fit.

If I'm a publisher and I don't have to wait 3 years into every console cycle for a game to have access to a real mass market, that's a huge win.
 
Oct 28, 2017
1,113
Interactive mediums are inherently different.

When you stream a movie or a video, the playback is still happening on your local device. The only difference is that the data file itself is sent to you from someplace else over the internet. When you stream a videogame your local machine isn't doing any of the rendering or running any of the game logic. You can record a Netflix movie and keep it forever, but you cannot "record" a local copy of a streaming-only game. Assuming that this streaming thing takes off and is widely adopted, why would companies ever want to offer a localized, piratable version of their product that requires them to do a lot more work?

I think it's guaranteed to happen eventually.
Because they will still have a revenue stream from all the salty people in this thread. And is that how you watch netflix, you record it for later or do you just stream it? If you just stream it like the vast majority of netflix users then functionally it is the same.
 
Nov 6, 2017
260
It could be a fantastinc thing but there are many issues which were talked in this thread. But I wonder what's the reception on developer's side? I don't know if it will bring good things for them or if it does not change anything.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,711
I've read hundreds of comments over the three or four threads, and after using Google's Power of the Cloud (TM) to crunch the numbers, I've determined that if you have an anime avatar, this potential new product is probably not for you.
 

Replicant

Banned
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,561
MN
An xbox One X using a 21ms delayed display against a display with very little display lag. so when you use it on the same display it'll be even worse.
It won’t be noticeable on 99% of games. Let’s not pretend that every single game is a fighting game or requires crazy low input lag. No one will be doing pro competition on the platform.
 

Wollan

Mostly Positive
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,923
Norway but living in France
DF just released a video testing the latency and with it was on par with an Xbox one x at 1080p 60fps.
Just to clarify: Stadia under optimal conditions (Google fiber connection) had the same latency (and slightly worse with 'only' 15MBps) with game running at 60fps compared to the same game running at 30fps on Xbox.

It will be fine for several genres but MP shooters, fighters, Sekiro etc. will be hampered.

The laws of physics is a bitch.
 
Oct 26, 2017
2,435
Yes. And we have cloud computing for that, not your desktop under the desk. And not just any hardware either, vastly improved architecture specifically designed for this specific problem and optimized for scale and performance out the ass. This is a non-issue
And the cloud will help here exactly how? Is all about the data. For a youtube video, you can compress the video using data from multiple frames, therefore obtaining a much better image quality with fewer data requirements and the compression algorithm can use all the time in the world to find the optimum compression. Upload a 4k youtube video and see how long it takes to process.

On game streaming, every frame you use for the compression is added lag, since they need to synchronize with the user inputs. Stop selling the cloud like if its magic technology. If they have developer real time algorithms that are so much better than what they are using on youtube, why not use them to improve youtube too then!? They are leaving millions on the table!
 
Jan 9, 2018
810
Something i just thought about is install base and how google can pitch it to devs as a non existent factor considering how technically everyone can use it.. more devs will support if no hardware is needed.
 

BronsonLee

it me
Member
Oct 24, 2017
13,287


*cries in data cap*

EDIT: I'm trying to verify this now, but this is likely being misinterpreted/was me getting bamboozled. Apologies, please disregard.
 
Last edited:
Oct 28, 2017
2,513
they went out of the way to say it wasn't during the presentation. apparently it's struggling in demos too
Someone bent the truth during a presentation? No way! Come on, folks.

And are you referring to the single tweet that has been posted here? Yeah, I think I'll wait for more in-depth impressions. Feel free to jump on that train though.
 
Oct 26, 2017
1,747
It's about the same latency as a local Xbox One X or PS4 Pro, according to the DF video. Slower than native PC, though. It's about ~40ms faster than the Project Stream beta, which I was very impressed by, especially for a beta.
I thought in the beta they recorded latency 'in the wild' of 179ms - 166ms on Google's connection would be a 13ms improvement.

In any case, it's masking things a little to compare to the (very laggy) input on the console versions of those games. Not every console game will offer such a flattering comparison. In terms of added latency over the PC version, it's still an added 54ms - in Google's environment. If we were to take it as indicative of in-the-wild performance, it's better than we've seen from services before, but not leaps and bounds better. In other games that kind of gap will make for less favourable comparisons with local games that don't have wonky input latency.

What this does say to other providers though is - fix your input latency. If MS puts the X1 version of AC on their streaming service, it's gonna be an even poorer comparison. Obviously google is going to make sure all their games have as low (local) input latency as they possibly can, so MS and Sony should be doing likewise for the sake of their own streaming services. But I feel like AC might be an outlier point of comparison.
 
Oct 26, 2017
7,856
People spend up to 1500$ on graphics cards to get the best versions of multiplatform games.

A streaming service that promises 60 fps Ultra for every game on the service is something that will excite tens of milliosn of people, even if it launches with Ass Creed Odysee, and a handfull of other games.
It won't for long if it doesn't have the games the masses play every year. Software is the king at the end of the day, people will only care for so long if it's constantly missing the big releases and has no worthwhile exclusives to make up for it, their 1st party announcement was pretty much nothing, so pretty unlikely they'd do much before the PS5/XB2.
 
Oct 27, 2017
936
They don't think that pricing, monetization, and the obvious and potentially critical failing point are worth addressing? These are questions that every potential dev and every potential customer will immediately have. If you aren't addressing the key concerns of developers or customers in your hour long presentation, why have an hour long presentation?
I think that they will start to tell us more now that the cat is officially out of the bag. I couldn't give a crap about pricing right now because there's nothing to buy yet and they didn't ask me to pre-purchase anything and I'm sure that info will be provided in due time. In the meantime, we could *potentially* start to have a meaningful conversation about just what a service like this might be worth paying for, which could in turn be valuable feedback to Google. I am absolutely sure that there's plenty of conversation going on about monetization and all the possible downsides of this service between Google and devs, or did you think they just grabbed a copy of AC:O to dump on the datacenters and let thousands of gamers freeload the experience, without discussing it with Ubisoft or sharing any feedback?

so this is why you're up in here trying to excuse this presentation so bad lol
IF you have a legitimate concern about my posting, feel free to bring it up with a Mod and I will be happy to discuss. Otherwise, this is just lazy passive-aggressive ad hominem that should be below Era posting standards.
 
Nov 17, 2018
17
Steam is already enough of a DRM bother, I don't want to never own any game I play.
I already have to go through much more of a process than I'd like to strip DRM from my ebooks so I can actually own them.
Only reason I'm able to rationalize streaming music is my financial inability to buy all the music I listen to, but I don't have time to play more games than I can afford.
GOG is still the only (modern digital) gaming platform that doesn't make me hurl.
The only silver lining I'm seeing thus far is the push for cross platform, but even then it seems the only time crossplat has happened is either when a company is large enough to force it (Fortnite/Epic Games) or if you're paying for their servers (MMOs like FFXIV).
 
Oct 25, 2017
26,575
Someone bent the truth during a presentation? No way! Come on, folks.

And are you referring to the single tweet that has been posted here? Yeah, I think I'll wait for more in-depth impressions. Feel free to jump on that train though.
if they bent the truth in the presentation around the defining aspect of their service... that is not encouraging.
 

ket

Member
Jul 27, 2018
1,723
Offline play would be simple to incorporate - follow Netflix's strategy for offline movies. Download the ones you want to play offline (minimum hardware requirements have to be met in order to play), stream the ones you want to play online.
Stadia won't have game installs so no offline play presumably.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,711
They never actually covered internet requirements?
It's not yet a consumer product, so no, but I'd expect pretty good, 60 mbps or so, to get good results, though obviously the hgiher the better. Project Stream worked well at 60mbps or so, so I'd expect the final product to probably be a bit better than that. The dev kit currently has a "15mbps low bandwidth" setting, which more or less seems to be for developers to test out gaming scenarios at low bandwidth.