• To celebrate the release of Halo: The Master Chief Collection on Steam, Xbox Games Studios has provided 5 Steam copies of the game and 5 Xbox One copies of the game! We will be giving these away in the Gaming Giveaways |OT|. Some Steam copies will also be given away to the PC Gaming Era community.
  • An old favorite feature returns: Q&ERA is back! This time we'll be collecting questions for Remedy Entertainment, makers of Max Payne, Alan Wake, Quantum Break, and Control. Members can submit questions for the next 3 days, 8 hours, 29 minutes, 20 seconds. Submissions will close on Dec 12, 2019 at 12:00 AM.

Google Stadia Pro (4K/60, 5.1 surround) $9.99 a month. Stadia Base (1080/60) requires no subscription.

Status
Not open for further replies.

Dreamwriter

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,850
I guess perhaps you're referring to the idea that Stadia games, unencumbered by windows will have some performance improvement? Graphically that shouldn't matter since you're not running the game anyway, the service is and it should be a certain quality, so latency perhaps?

I assume the biggest difference is the scalability of Stadia for games specifically designed for Stadia, which could create games now possible for current day PC's, which is very interesting but are there many benefits beyond that? Most games that are going to be available for the coming years are likely to be cross-platform and given the current offering on Stadia probably close to the PC versions of the games anyway.
The biggest advantage to not being a PC and just running PC ports is the same advantage to any game console: you have a very strict set of specifications you can write your game for. The game doesn't have to be written to be playable on low-end hardware, it doesn't have to have support for various GPUs, CPUs, memory configurations, storage speeds, etc., so it can take full advantage of the actual hardware in the console. The developer can push the console as far as they can and know that every player will get the same results. This is how 3D game consoles have managed to have good graphics even when they launch with 2-year-old video hardware. If the Stadia just ran the PC version of a game, that would likely be the generic version of the game designed to run on mediocre hardware but with higher resolutions and better post-processing effects on higher-end systems, but since with Stadia the developer has to take time and effort to port the game to the new hardware, it's likely to go beyond just that, getting more particle effects, more polygons, higher-resolution textures, ray tracing, etc.
 

Pheace

Member
Aug 23, 2018
805
The biggest advantage to not being a PC and just running PC ports is the same advantage to any game console: you have a very strict set of specifications you can write your game for. The game doesn't have to be written to be playable on low-end hardware, it doesn't have to have support for various GPUs, CPUs, memory configurations, storage speeds, etc., so it can take full advantage of the actual hardware in the console. The developer can push the console as far as they can and know that every player will get the same results. This is how 3D game consoles have managed to have good graphics even when they launch with 2-year-old video hardware. If the Stadia just ran the PC version of a game, that would likely be the generic version of the game designed to run on mediocre hardware but with higher resolutions and better post-processing effects on higher-end systems, but since with Stadia the developer has to take time and effort to port the game to the new hardware, it's likely to go beyond just that, getting more particle effects, more polygons, higher-resolution textures, ray tracing, etc.
But then, you're not talking about the bulk of games, since those won't be designed for Stadia. Even the port will be a port from a non-Stadia platform, merely to get it to work on Stadia, most games will not be reworking their games for Stadia. I get the potential for games with specific Stadia builds but in several years I imagine 90%+ will still not be using that. Most will simply be the same, performance wise as what's out there. And since performance, for us, is irrelevant, because Stadia runs it, not our devices those kind of improvements don't really help the consumer, as long as they're staying true to the tin, that you get 4k60fps performance.

Heck, on the idea that they might put out some 'improved' version of the game on Stadia, there's been cases in the past where games have been purposely 'limited/downgraded' so as to not be too different from the lesser quality versions available on the consoles. As long as a game is multiplatform there's not likely to be a huge will to make the Stadia version a somehow improved version compared to the rest of them unless there's something in it for the developers (ie, Google pays them).
 

III-V

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,953
But then, you're not talking about the bulk of games, since those won't be designed for Stadia. Even the port will be a port from a non-Stadia platform, merely to get it to work on Stadia, most games will not be reworking their games for Stadia. I get the potential for games with specific Stadia builds but in several years I imagine 90%+ will still not be using that. Most will simply be the same, performance wise as what's out there. And since performance, for us, is irrelevant, because Stadia runs it, not our devices those kind of improvements don't really help the consumer, as long as they're staying true to the tin, that you get 4k60fps performance.

Heck, on the idea that they might put out some 'improved' version of the game on Stadia, there's been cases in the past where games have been purposely 'limited/downgraded' so as to not be too different from the lesser quality versions available on the consoles. As long as a game is multiplatform there's not likely to be a huge will to make the Stadia version a somehow improved version compared to the rest of them unless there's something in it for the developers (ie, Google pays them).
We are going from a 1.23 TF baseline to 10.7 TF. The multi-platform games should be looking best on Stadia. There is even striations within the consoles themselves - PS4 Pro looks better than PS4, etc. I don't see any need for this turning into a forced-parity AC4 situation.
 

Pheace

Member
Aug 23, 2018
805
We are going from a 1.23 TF baseline to 10.7 TF. The multi-platform games should be looking best on Stadia. There is even striations within the consoles themselves - PS4 Pro looks better than PS4, etc. I don't see any need for this turning into a forced-parity AC4 situation.
My point is, it's irrelevant whether that's on a Stadia specific build or a PC specific build if both are going to run the same 'Ultra' settings of a game. It doesn't matter if the windows version has worse performance if the streaming service themselves are the ones who put up the machine because as long as they guarantee 4k60fps it doesn't matter to me that they need better hardware to deal with the Windows version of that game vs Stadia's less costly (I assume) stadia version. It would make Stadia more cost effective. On the other hand, developers don't have to deal with creating a separate version of their game for one platform if they'd run the windows version.

Of course, there's a different benefit if the Stadia platform also means you're getting games from say Playstation or Nintendo because that might be possible Stadia platform (I have no idea) but if it's largely going to be Windows games anyway the need for a different version is often seen as an encumbrance, both for developing it and supporting it (See the issues GOG versions of games have had for instance)

Ie, the benefits of a Stadia specific version are at their best if that version has things unique to Stadia, which most often will mean it will have to have been designed for it. Whether that's worth doing for devs will depend on Stadia's success.
 

III-V

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,953
Ie, the benefits of a Stadia specific version are at their best if that version has things unique to Stadia, which most often will mean it will have to have been designed for it.
Thats the idea that they are very much working with. Stadia wants the dev to take advantage of the service in this way.
 

Pheace

Member
Aug 23, 2018
805
Thats the idea that they are very much working with. Stadia wants the dev to take advantage of the service in this way.
And my point is that in most cases the games will simply be multiplatform ports, not particularly enhanced for Stadia. Of course Stadia would love it if they take advantage of more but until/unless Stadia grows to become big enough to warrant that extra investment that's not likely to happen unless they get enticed (by Google) to do so.

For instance, we could easily say there are many, many console ports which could have been vastly enhanced/improved upon when they came to PC, yet many of those haven't. They're more often than not, the exact same game, but with unlocked graphics options.
 

riotous

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,327
Seattle
The biggest advantage to not being a PC and just running PC ports is the same advantage to any game console: you have a very strict set of specifications you can write your game for. The game doesn't have to be written to be playable on low-end hardware, it doesn't have to have support for various GPUs, CPUs, memory configurations, storage speeds, etc., so it can take full advantage of the actual hardware in the console.
This isn't really true at all; if Stadia was Windows based it would still have 1 specific hardware set for devs to target, and you'd get very similar advantages and nothing would stop the developer from heavily customizing the game for that hardware set. If there is a performance advantage it's with google's finite control over the OS and subsystems / drivers that can theoretically be optimized more. But we've been told the same with Linux gaming and it hasn't really been proven as MS has improved the ability for software to not be held back by legacy subsystems on modern Windows.

There is a cost advantage to Google not having to pay for Windows licenses though.
 

Dreamwriter

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,850
This isn't really true at all; if Stadia was Windows based it would still have 1 specific hardware set for devs to target, and you'd get very similar advantages and nothing would stop the developer from heavily customizing the game for that hardware set.
If the Stadia is just running the PC ports of games, then no, they wouldn't be customized whatsoever for Stadia. They would be what we have now, which are games generally made for as low power PCs as the developer can get away with so they can maximize their audience, with options to just improve resolutions and add some post processing effects if your PC is more powerful. There's a reason modders can make PC games look so much better, because the developer can't target the most powerful PCs as their primary development target.

Since the Stadia is more like a game console, we don't have that situation. We have what usually happens with high budget multiplatform console games - a developer makes a game for the most powerful console and has teams specialized for each platform to tweak it and push their game to look best on that platform. So in theory once developers can develop a game with the Stadia as a platform through the entire development cycle, multiplatform Stadia games should look better than PC ports of the game would have, unless the PC was powerful enough to just brute force better graphics.
 

riotous

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,327
Seattle
Again, not true... you are making no sense. Like you are just saying "it would be this way" when it makes no sense.

Dreamwriter said:
There's a reason modders can make PC games look so much better, because the developer can't target the most powerful PCs as their primary development target.
Dude.. why wouldn't a Stadia dev be able to do.. exactly what modders do, for the Stadia version of a game if it ran on Windows?

Like.. come on man, think for a second lol

If Stadia was 10.1TF on Windows devs could modify a PC version of their game to fit that 10.1 TF machine and wouldn't have to worry about "low end hardware" for the Stadia version of a game.
 

Dreamwriter

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,850
Again, not true... you are making no sense. Like you are just saying "it would be this way" when it makes no sense.



Dude.. why wouldn't a Stadia dev be able to do.. exactly what modders do, for the Stadia version of a game if it ran on Windows?

Like.. come on man, think for a second lol

If Stadia was 10.1TF on Windows devs could modify a PC version of their game to fit that 10.1 TF machine and wouldn't have to worry about "low end hardware" for the Stadia version of a game.
I've never said anything about running Windows. I've been talking about if Stadia just ran PC ports. If it did so there would be zero chance a single developer would do anything special for Stadia at all, except for the rare developer that wanted to actually take full advantage of the backend capabilities, multiplatform-be-damned. They would just wait for their PC port to be done, turn on ultra settings, and release it on Stadia. But because Stadia is developed exactly as if it were another game console, complete with a hardware development kit, chances are next-gen multiplatform games will be developed with Stadia features in mind, and will push that version to the limits of what it could do, similar to how multiplatform games work now with PS4, PS4 Pro, Xbox One, Xbox One X.

You are right that if it ran Windows but did NOT just run straight PC ports, developers could take full advantage of the hardware; modern Windows vs Linux isn't that different in the end once your app is running, aside from having good driver support, where Linux is often behind.
 
Last edited:

riotous

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,327
Seattle
I've never said anything about running Windows. I've been talking about if Stadia just ran PC ports. If it did so there would be zero chance a single developer would do anything special for Stadia at all, except for the rare developer that wanted to actually take full advantage of the backend capabilities, multiplatform-be-damned. They would just wait for their PC port to be done, turn on ultra settings, and release it on Stadia.
Windows is the only difference; like.. it's implied we are talking about Windows, that's what a "PC Version" of a game is. Stadia is running on hardware that they could install Windows on, instead they have their custom Linux based OS.

And why does Stadia being non-Windows motivate developers to do something special with the game? That also makes no sense.

Probably gonna drop this because you are hurting my brain; nothing you are saying leads me to believe you understand what is going on.

If you want to discuss "PC" more generically than Windows; Stadia is basically a PC. There isn't any super fancy custom hardware reportedly; hell modern consoles are essentially PCs too then.

The advantage is a static set of hardware, not whether that hardware is considered a PC or not. Devs can target that static hardware no matter what OS it's running and have advantages over general PC gaming.
 
Last edited:

Dreamwriter

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,850
Windows is the only difference; like.. it's implied we are talking about Windows, that's what a "PC Version" of a game is. Stadia is running on hardware that they could install Windows on, instead they have their custom Linux based OS.

And why does Stadia being non-Windows motivate developers to do something special with the game? That also makes no sense.

Gonna drop this because you are hurting my brain; nothing you are saying leads me to believe you understand what is going on.
My point is that PC versions of games are NOT the same as console games at all, which is why they often take months or over a year sometimes to get ported to PC. And the way PC games are usually developed by the bigger companies, they target the low end hardware rather than high end hardware. If Stadia was just a web-based PC, there is no chance at all that any developer ever would create new assets for it, would create new graphical effects for it, would do anything other than give Stadia the same build of the game they already are selling on PC, aside from maybe a special API for cloud saves or something. They would never develop for Stadia alongside the other platforms when developing a game, because it would be more economical to just wait until the eventual PC port and call it a day. But as a game console, Stadia would be developed WITH the other ports, and as such the games would be designed from the start to take advantage of its full power.

In the end Stadia isn't different from another Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo game console, except for how users access the "console" and its games.

(also, I believe Stadia isn't running on hardware that they could just install Windows on without doing anything special like creating new drivers; it's more like a console than a PC, with custom GPUs, memory interfaces, etc).
 

riotous

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,327
Seattle
It's like you are discussing console vs. PC 15 years ago and not today.

And I would bet money Stadia hardware can install Windows w/ existing drivers; "custom" for Stadia (and today's consoles) when it comes to GPUS/CPUS are just custom configurations of existing hardware, often LESS POWERFUL than the versions released in PC graphic cards. They are customized to hit low-power requirements / cost. They are just different configurations of the same hardware sold on PC.

Doom was ported from it's Linux (PC) version in 2 weeks by 2 guys to Stadia (which they could do because they already had Vulkan support). There is nothing dramatically custom w/ Stadia.

What you are saying is fundamentally flawed man I don't know what to tell you; whether Stadia is a "PC" or not is not some advantage or disadvantage. The real advantage is devs knowing exactly how many TF's they have available so they can fine tune the settings (they've already built into their engines, because that's how you do it regardless of needing to support low-end PCs) for that hardware. That's pretty much it.

And consoles are pretty much the same too; the codebase between PC and console versions of games is largely shared. They dial in the settings for the console versions for performance, down to at times even adjusting those settings for specific levels/areas of games (dynamic resolution, draw distance.)
 
Last edited:

riotous

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,327
Seattle
And do you even PC game?

Do you realize the PC versions of current games support graphics options well beyond what consoles can do? Even entire technologies not supported by current day consoles.

That's despite the fact those PC versions also target lower end hardware.

You seem to get that Stadia being single-spec is an advantage, the rest of what you are saying about PC/console is just kinda wrong, or at best outdated.
 

III-V

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,953
I heard that Stadia codename was Yeti. I wonder if that was the "monster" MS talked about.
 

BlueManifest

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,582
So I just got death stranding for PS4 and after doing the system update, installing death stranding(this took the longest), and doing the day 1 patch im almost at a 1 hr wait time to start playing

just remembering I don’t have to deal with this in the cloud
 

Dunlop

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,082
So I just got death stranding for PS4 and after doing the system update, installing death stranding(this took the longest), and doing the day 1 patch im almost at a 1 hr wait time to start playing

just remembering I don’t have to deal with this in the cloud
Except you can't play death standing on it ; )
 

ElMexiMerican

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,032
So I just got death stranding for PS4 and after doing the system update, installing death stranding(this took the longest), and doing the day 1 patch im almost at a 1 hr wait time to start playing

just remembering I don’t have to deal with this in the cloud
This is what excites me about cloud gaming.

I doubt this could happen, but I'd love it if in the future on PS and Xbox when youre downloading a game and it's patches that it will give you the option to play a low quality stream version of the game while you wait.
 
Last edited:

Dave.

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,600
So I just got death stranding for PS4 and after doing the system update, installing death stranding(this took the longest), and doing the day 1 patch im almost at a 1 hr wait time to start playing

just remembering I don’t have to deal with this in the cloud
I didn't have to do any of this to play Death Stranding on PS4. I turned on the console at midnight, clicked on the icon and was straight in to the game.
 

cakely

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,114
Chicago
So I just got death stranding for PS4 and after doing the system update, installing death stranding(this took the longest), and doing the day 1 patch im almost at a 1 hr wait time to start playing

just remembering I don’t have to deal with this in the cloud
An hour to patch? You should really look into upgrading your broadband service.
 

KaiPow

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,137
An hour to patch? You should really look into upgrading your broadband service.
It's less the bandwidth and moreso the state of gaming on PS4 after a while. OP should Rebuild Database in the safe menu options to get this issue resolved.

I'm on gigabit and also have very long patch times due to the Copying.... stage
 

Dreamwriter

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,850
I didn't have to do any of this to play Death Stranding on PS4. I turned on the console at midnight, clicked on the icon and was straight in to the game.
Sounds like you had preinstalled the game before launch, and had already had to wait for your PS4 to update earlier, while Blue Manifest bought it retail so had to install and then patch, and hadn’t been playing PS4 recently so had to wait for one of their frequent system updates. So you still had to wait for those things, you just did your waiting earlier (and some while you weren’t around). With Stadia, it‘s Google doing all that for you - the game will be preinstalled for everybody, with all relevant patches, and system updates, and the game probably already launched and ready to go.
 
Last edited:

Pheace

Member
Aug 23, 2018
805
Sounds like you had preinstalled the game before launch, and had already had to wait for your PS4 to update earlier, while Blue Manifest bought it retail so had to install and then patch, and hadn’t been playing PS4 recently so had to wait for one of their frequent system updates. So you still had to wait for those things, you just did your waiting earlier (and some while you weren’t around). With Stadia, it‘s Google doing all that for you - the game will be preinstalled for everybody, with all relevant patches, and system updates, and the game probably already launched and ready to go.
Glad I'm on PC using Steam in that sense. Everything that's installed just updates itself whenever and it's practically always updated before I even get to it xD

Granted I can see how it's nice that Stadia would do it for you. Though there's still a wait before the update is released since Stadia will obviously have to update itself as well (granted, they'll have likely done it before you get to it).

I'd honestly be more worried how fast updates arrive on the Stadia platform, given they'll often be ports of a version created for another platform. We see this tons with Steam and GOG. Since games are developed for Steam in most cases they always get the updates right away but the updates for GOG (which is different because DRM-Free) sometimes take a weekend or longer or, infamously, in some cases arrive very late or even never at all (which has caused at least several games to have been removed from the service).
 

James

Member
Oct 25, 2017
191
US
I saw some people in this thread discussing that their Stadia pre-order cards had expired/been cancelled and the Google Store would not let them change their payment method. I was in the same boat, until I saw this thread on Reddit.


If you are running into that issue, or if you just want to update your payment method, you can change via Google Pay. Either use the app or the website, find the Google Store Stadia order, and change the associated card.
 

deadfolk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,707
I saw some people in this thread discussing that their Stadia pre-order cards had expired/been cancelled and the Google Store would not let them change their payment method. I was in the same boat, until I saw this thread on Reddit.


If you are running into that issue, or if you just want to update your payment method, you can change via Google Pay. Either use the app or the website, find the Google Store Stadia order, and change the associated card.
Yeah, I had to do this a little while back. When I ordered I knew my card was going to expire before November, but there was no other way. Then I got the new card, and it took me ages to figure out how to change the order.
 

snacknuts

The Fallen
Nov 1, 2017
3,045
GRID is going to have a 40 car mode on Stadia that's "just not possible on other hardware"


How was your experience with Google Stadia? What would you say are the main differences compared to developing for a console or PC?
Development on any new hardware is always equal parts exciting and interesting. Perhaps the area with the biggest difference was the streaming, but also the ability of Stadia to talk to other Stadia so quickly transforms some ideas around multiplayer – for example developing a whole new mode for GRID Stadia which has 40 cars on track at the same time, something that just isn’t possible with other hardware.

What's the biggest surprise you had during the whole process?
Probably that Google were able to deliver on what they promised – I mean racing games are particularly sensitive to controller lag and yet I can’t feel any when playing on Stadia, the experience is fantastic.
 

Zelus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
652
So, I just read an article that stated that the games on Stadia will run on Linux and not Windows. Is that accurate?
 

Bladelaw

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,065
Anyone get the founder's email to claim a Stadia name? It's getting pretty close to launch and I haven't heard a peep from Google since I ordered back in June about anything.
 

Dunlop

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,082

riotous

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,327
Seattle
Someone sell me their buddy pass for $30.

K, thanks

Will ask again next week :)

edit: Someone bit! Thanks :)
 
Last edited:

Tmespe

Member
Oct 27, 2017
416
The buddy pass is designed to give people access to Stadia before the service goes live to consumers to otherwise buy.

So if it's not near launch I don't know what the point is lol

But yeah, no guarantee they are day one of course.
It's a 3 month trial for Stadia premium basically. With they way the communication and the pre launch has been going so far, I would not expect it to be available before next year.
 

riotous

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,327
Seattle
It's a 3 month trial for Stadia premium basically. With they way the communication and the pre launch has been going so far, I would not expect it to be available before next year.
They have been pretty mysterious about everything; a while back they removed verbiage about the Buddy Pass claiming you'd receive it "within 6 months." But like I said, they removed that.

In my opinion it only makes sense if the buddy passes are shipped out before the initial 3 month launch window is over; because after 3 months they'll need to start being able to sell Founder's pro subscriptions and at that point I imagine they'll be available to the general public. Aside from just being a way to give or sell someone a 3 month trial I don't see the point once it's all available to the public.

But obviously could be wrong.
 

riotous

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,327
Seattle
Look at this for instance:

I mean twitter account person could be wrong, but this all implies buddy passes are meant for the launch window.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.