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GOTY 2018 Wrap-Up & Future Planning

Oct 25, 2017
13,109
I just wanted to simply vote for my 2018 GOTY, but I never did it in the end because I couldn't be bothered doing 10 entries and/or write-ups.

But that's just me, so I just ignored it.

Also, if something releases in the year, it can be voted for. I don't think it's really that deep. So what if a port comes at a later date? It'll be the first release for many on that platform.

Unless you segregate to PC/PS/Xbox/Nintendo. But, I just don't think it's worth the effort. Big free for all GOTY vote, done. Easy.
 
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Hecht

Stuck in the Thanus 🔨
Administrator
Oct 24, 2017
4,423
I’m not going to get the answer that people are looking for so I will drop it.

But I am rooting for things to get straightened out, on top of using that dumb ass logic from last year, it was a lot of work that I appreciate people putting in effort for, it can’t be easy. Of course if you want to use that logic from last year I won’t mind as long as RE2 gets ranked and Link’s Awakening doesn’t. In the spirit of fairness and all that.
Great idea! We should make a thread about figuring out how to best tackle it for 2019.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,755
Keep it simple, if a game was released anywhere for any platform in that year it's eligible. The community will decide if a game is worthy of consideration.

Ordered votes are key too. 5/4/3/2/1 or 5/3/1 or whatever. But not 10 votes please, that's way too many.

Best Voice Acting should be Best Performance, and that's a welcome addition to the awards too.
 
Oct 25, 2017
11,294
People do realize you don't have to vote for 10 games, right.

I'm in favor of simply not having any categories at all. I also think remasters and ports should simply not be eligible. I don't want to see a game over and over again. I understand that sometimes games get a second life as a port to a more desirable console, but this is just a forum GOTY. It doesn't actually matter.

I understand I'm biased on this point, but I highly, highly, HIGHLY disagree with having a Best Music category. I think there's a dedicated video game music fanbase that gives that subject it's due in it's own thread, and having a GOTY version would mean a lot of great stuff getting buried.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,564
The more complicated the process is, the less participation there will be. I don't think any kind of wrangling is likely to make the category prizes useful, and under the current proposal, I simply wouldn't partake in that stage of the process.

Right now the voting process is fairly straightforward and the tabulation is easy to understand. The parts that need fixing have nothing to do with voter behaviour and everything to do with the presentation of the data (e.g. whether remasters and late ports make the final rank, what's tagged for what category, and so on). You don't need to overthink it or draw it out; changes should be under the hood in a way that doesn't affect what voters are already doing to fashion their ballots.

As for requests:

  • I would prefer it if the entire process were bumped back by a month. The board is painfully slow here in January anyway, and under the current process there isn't a lot of time for anyone to digest December releases, as so many big releases tend to cluster around November.
  • One technical fix that you desperately need for the parser: right now, the BBCode is case-sensitive (it only reads uppercase tags, which are the ones generated by the rich text editor). This means that even properly formatted posts don't get parsed if they don't meet this hidden requirement.
  • Affinity is the main social feature that is missed from the other board. It's always nice to have more reasons to read other people's ballots instead of just fussing about the ranks and numbers.

I'm in favor of simply not having any categories at all. I also think remasters and ports should simply not be eligible. I don't want to see a game over and over again. I understand that sometimes games get a second life as a port to a more desirable console, but this is just a forum GOTY. It doesn't actually matter.
I strongly agree with dispensing with categories outright. The sample sizes are statistically too small for them to do their ideal job of drawing attention to titles that might get lost in the main vote. Strategy games are so underrepresented in the demographics of the forum, for instance, that realistically what would happen, no matter what you do, is that all the votes would cluster around the one game with a big presence among console players who normally don't touch the genre, while everything else is swung by statistical noise.

Platform-specific ranks might be useful to leave in place as long as there is a way of handling weird cases like how Assassin's Creed: Odyssey was tagged for Switch because it was streamable in Japan. But again, like every problem here, this is a data representation problem, not a voting/tallying problem.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
3,201
If you want your vote to matter, you should care about making sure that the thing you vote for is actually being considered and won’t have some bullshit explanation for why it doesn’t count after the voting ends.
They've already acknowledged the mistake and they're looking not to repeat, your repeated dogging for more answers isn't going to change whats already happened, and what will happen in the future. You should let it go and focus on the new efforts for 2019 since you're so passionate.
 
Hello community,

Thank you to everyone for another thrilling Games of the Year event here at ResetEra! Now that the votes have been counted and the results published, we on the GOTY team would like to take the opportunity to talk about what went well and what could go better next time. With this now being the second year that the team has handled this event, we've identified several recurring issues that I am going to highlight and address in this thread.

The Issues

Vote Formatting & Spelling
Although we've added tools to alleviate this issue, such as VoteBot and volunteers who alert voters to incorrect ballots, many posters are still formatting their votes incorrectly. Format mistakes make things harder for everyone involved! On a similar note, we've seen a lot of typos and spelling issues such as forgetting a colon in a game's name, leaving a letter off the end, forgetting a "the" at the start of a game name, and so on. This can result in votes not counting, and it creates additional work for vote tabulation to ensure that we've consolidated the votes for every misspelling and permutation of a game's name. This is something we want to try and reduce as much as possible going forward.
Nothing can stop random formating jaunts. It is its own reward, its own destination. To fight it is madness.

Remasters/Remakes
Remakes and remasters have been a common point of confusion. We received a lot of questions why a game such as Hollow Knight and Shadow of the Colossus was not eligible for Game of the Year voting while Let's Go, for example, was. While we've tried to be clear about what criteria is used to define the remake/remaster category, the results are still generating a lot of confusion.
If people wanna drop a Switch port as their GOTY, despite it coming out on like eleventy-billion systems 2017, like the above, I dont think they can be stopped. I like new games or new localizations getting more of a due, but even with the Xenoblade 1 Effect kicking in, I don't have that much to stop the masses' will. We'll call it Resident Evil 2: 20th Anniversary Remake Rule or something.

Categories
There have been some issues with how categories are handled for GOTY voting. Because GOTY voting is a single ballot for Game of the Year, there is no individual voting for specific categories such as best RPG and such. Instead, we use meta tags to handle category placement and results. For example, God of War had the following meta tags: Playstation 4 and Action-Adventure. This means that the game was only eligible for those categories, and the votes for the game in those categories are the same as the votes for the overall GOTY list.

This can create strange scenarios where a game, for example, has a bad port on one system but still receives a high result for that platform's results because the game was fine on another system. Another strange scenario: In 2018 voting, Assassin's Creed Odyssey placed on the Best Switch Game list because of the release of the game in Japan which resulted in the meta tag for Switch being added to the game. It is clear team that meta tags for category placement are not producing satisfactory results.

Proposed Changes

With the issues outlined above in mind, we're looking at making the following changes to the GOTY voting process for 2019:

Category Nomination Round
The first major change would be changing the way the voting process works by adding an additional round of voting. Currently, voting is done in a single round with GOTY + categories done at the same time using the same list. For 2019, we'd like to add a round of voting before the GOTY voting which would likely be called "Category Nominations."

Category Nominations would be a round of voting where voters nominate games for consideration for certain categories (excluding GOTY). Ideally, voters would be able to nominate 3 games for each category. Once Category Nomination is over, the top 5 results from each category would be the nominees for that category and eligible for voting in the final round.

The final round of voting would look much like the current system with a general Top Ten GOTY list for the GOTY category. In addition, voters would be able to vote for one game for each category. The end result would be the standard top twenty list and category results that are not based on meta tags.

Here's a simplified breakdown of it:

Category Nomination round
  • Nominate up to three games for each category
  • Nominations are un-ordered (order does not matter, each nomination is one point)
Normal round
  • Top 5 from each category are eligible for voting for that category in the final round (choose one)
  • Standard GOTY vote like previous years
We believe this will allow for more accurate categories as category winners will not simply be determined off of the GOTY vote list. It will hopefully give opportunity for other games to shine and help drive discussion about aspects of games that haven't been covered in previous years. As part of this round voting, we would look at expanding the categories currently offered. Because meta tags wouldn't be used for determining category eligibility, there could be categories introduced that we weren't previously able to offer such as Best Story or Best Music.

Below are some of the categories that the team would like to see added. Do note that this list is no where near finalized. This is simply a rough draft of categories that we could include if we changed to a two round voting system.
  • All Existing Platform Categories
  • All Existing Genre Categories
  • Best Narrative/Story
  • Best Voice Acting
  • Best Graphics
  • Best Ongoing Game
  • Best Artistic Direction
  • Best Music
  • Best Indie Game
  • Best Sound Design
  • Best Level Design
  • Game We Can't Stop Playing
  • Most Fun with Friends
  • Most "Badass" Game
  • Cutest Game
  • Craziest Game
  • Best Competitive Multiplayer
  • Best Guilty Pleasure Game
  • Best Character Designs/Best Characters
  • Best Niche Game/Best Underrated
  • Best Experimental Game
I've never liked this kind of thing, as it would inevitably reignite the WUT R JONREH arguments that obscure rather than illuminate the issues at hand and just feels like extra work in the light of it being something that could be calved off into its own unofficial theads since some of these ideas are very discussion and elucidated-heavy anyways.

That, and we already have an annual Best Music thread since like 2010.

Vote Formatting
In order to address formatting issues, we're looking at tech solutions to streamline the voting process. Rest assured, we know that people like to the format and create their own lists to look back on later, so even if there is a tech solution found, we would not remove the GOTY voting thread. Instead, the GOTY voting thread might simply become a thread for you to show others how you voted, formatting your list however you want.
Hard, hard no.

This would kill discussion as not everyone would go to the effort to repost so why bother to come in and read, plus some of us put in work on both our text and purty pictures (again, less eyeballs), and again, people who throw whatever formatting that pops into their head thing willfully ignoring a forum rule in the process again.

Remake/Remasters Eligibility
Going forward, we'd like to either clarify the rules regarding what is considered a remake/remaster and what isn't. Resident Evil 2, for instance, is a substantial overhaul from the original and thus should be eligible for GOTY. This was the case with Pokemon Let’s Go. Shadow of the Colossus, however, was simply a graphical upgrade, and in theory should not be eligible. That said, we could always have a “Best Remake” category. Simply put, if a game remake/remaster is MORE than just a graphics overhaul, then it would be eligible for GOTY.

The alternate approach could be that, if voters feel that the category system ensures remakes/remasters will not overwhelm the system, that such games are eligible for GOTY and categories. Another alternative could be that the games are eligible for GOTY and not categories or even categories and not GOTY. There's a variety of different options and approaches we could take, and it largely depends on what you all want.
RESIDENT EVIL 2: THE REDEADENING

Yeah, best not invalidate this badboy. :P

Conclusion
We are seeking your feedback regarding the proposed changes to the 2019 GOTY process. While we cannot respond to every post in this thread, we'll try to respond where and when we can. Our intention is to foster this discussion in the community and collect feedback. Either late this month or early next month, we will provide a breakdown of the received feedback and finalize what changes, if any, we'll be making to 2019 GOTY voting. Thanks for your continued support, and we look forward to your thoughts!
*whispers* how about recommended, affinity, and hipster lists coming back for a much better use of tech

That basically means if your a niche game or your not a console game need not apply.
That's what it already was! Hence my GOTY rundown:

2011: 26th
2012: 12th
2013: 70th
2014: 57th
2015: 4th
2016: 74th
2017: 42nd
2018: 100th

That's another Inevitable: battles of the titans for 1st rather than showing your hand as it were. Can't stop it, won't stop it.
 
Jun 29, 2018
1,321
They've already acknowledged the mistake and they're looking not to repeat, your repeated dogging for more answers isn't going to change whats already happened, and what will happen in the future. You should let it go and focus on the new efforts for 2019 since you're so passionate.
Fair enough. Here’s my proposal: RE2 should count and Link’s Awakening should not in the goty voting to make up for last year’s “mistake”
 
Oct 28, 2017
562
I would prefer it if the entire process were bumped back by a month. The board is painfully slow here in January anyway, and under the current process there isn't a lot of time for anyone to digest December releases, as so many big releases tend to cluster around November
Seconding this proposal -- there's not particular reason to force a tight deadline on this
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,913
I don't have a problem with ANY 2019 release being counted, remaster or no. I also don't think the category-specific voting is compelling enough to bother with. But to be honest, I'm coming at this with the following perspective: sometimes I like reading people's lists; I liked the analysis that showed you who on the forums voted most like you/has similar tastes to you; it's fun to see the final list because hey lists are fun; everything else basically doesn't matter to me. I'm perfectly fine leaving the current system in place, plus any technical improvements to eliminate dupes/missed entries/misspellings/etc.
 

Hecht

Stuck in the Thanus 🔨
Administrator
Oct 24, 2017
4,423
I don't have a problem with ANY 2019 release being counted, remaster or no. I also don't think the category-specific voting is compelling enough to bother with. But to be honest, I'm coming at this with the following perspective: sometimes I like reading people's lists; I liked the analysis that showed you who on the forums voted most like you/has similar tastes to you; it's fun to see the final list because hey lists are fun; everything else basically doesn't matter to me. I'm perfectly fine leaving the current system in place, plus any technical improvements to eliminate dupes/missed entries/misspellings/etc.
I'll say that regardless of the system we end up with, our goal is still to be able to see everyone's lists/rationale. I'm hoping there's a way we can make that whole process easier, though.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,208
This is very case by case and I don't really know how one would deal with it, but I do feel December games, expecially long RPGs, get the short end of the stick.

In reality a GotY should almost be held a year after the year to let the dust settle and allow a reasonable amond of people to catch up as not everyone is a day one player, but I know that's completely unrealistic.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,913
I'll say that regardless of the system we end up with, our goal is still to be able to see everyone's lists/rationale. I'm hoping there's a way we can make that whole process easier, though.
Oh, for sure, I didn't mean to say that I expected that to disappear. I mean more that the current system suffices for my needs and that I don't think the category proposals move the needle a whole lot for me. The remaster thing I'd just side with "allow all releases from that year" and not worry so much about whether something falls in the spirit of the voting or not. Let the crowd decide that, I think people will be pretty good about coming to a consensus. The technical improvements would be super keen (maybe let us write the lists as-is, but then run a check to see if games are recognized or not and report back to the user? Not the easiest thing to program for sure, but potentially doable if Xenforo is as extendable as I think it is.)

Actually, the best suggestion I've seen so far is just to move voting back a month, to give more breathing room between the end of the year and the final tally.
 
Dec 7, 2017
1,082
I feel you guys are complicated a process that should be as simple as possible so that more people participate.

Allow any game released in the year.

Keep the meta-data system and just curate it. The "assassin's Creed became switch best game" is a non-issue, just don't include it in the end?
Honestly, just do console exclusives when it comes to "best Xbox/PlayStation/Switch game" lists and then do the categories through the meta-data.
 
Oct 25, 2017
486
Another vote for the "collective wisdom" option about remakes/remasters. That approach to the essential RPGs thread solves a complicated discussion within the genre without heavily changing the results, and even if that was the case, that means that a particular title is a great upgrade and as such should be considered in the voting.

I'd say any game released in the calendar year should count, even old ports. The example someone made with the original Fire Emblem is pretty good; almost nobody will vote for it, but by including it you gain a lot in regards to simplification of the process, which is certainly linked to participation. If you were to make platform rankings out of the voting thread, though, you should include that old port only in the rankings of the platform that saw it release that year.
 
Oct 26, 2017
6,248
You guys really should have a simple web form for the voting process. It shouldn't be hard to implement. Expecting people to format everything properly is just asking for trouble.

A form would allow you to have a dropdown list of all the eligible games. Add a text description field next to it, then multiply by 10. Submit button. That's it. Not sure how hard it would be to integrate with the forum's authentication but at worst it could be an autogenerated unique link or something.

That system could also be used for other voting events.
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,588
USA
I'm all for simplicity. Include any and all releases in the calendar year and let folks vote. I don't get much out of category/platform lists since there's a lot of multiplat overlap and the way games are categorized don't make sense a lot of the time. There's too much gray area with what's valid and what isn't. I think it'll all pan out in the end the simpler it is.

I would also like a list that includes the previous year since so many of us are late to the party. I think including all years is too much, but if there was another list that included 2018 as well as 2019, that could be interesting (but not the focus).
 

Josh5890

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
922
I would throw this out as a rule suggestion. Maybe have a rule where the same game cannot be eligible 1-3 years in a row? That way straight ports don't qualify two years in a row but remakes/remasters do qualify.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,363
I agree with dumping categories and making it a free for all. The other community threads like PC ERA etc usually hold their own game awards. Maybe mention them in the results if you want subcategories?

Keep it simple. Include ports, remakes, whatever. If it released in 2019 somewhere, it counts.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
6,232
North Jackson High
Should adopt an official database of game names. Maybe not actually spend money on the API, but at least prompt voters to refer to https://www.igdb.com when choosing the names, that way you guarantee accuracy in the case of odd edge cases (like let's say somebody votes for Punch-Out Wii versus Punch Out).
 

ryseing

Bought courtside tickets just to read a book.
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,288
North Carolina
Fair enough. Here’s my proposal: RE2 should count and Link’s Awakening should not in the goty voting to make up for last year’s “mistake”
What an asinine comment, especially when we have no idea presently about the extent to which LA is being remade. The staff admitted they screwed up. LA shouldn't be "punished" for that mistake.

I'm on board with Aeana's proposal. If it is playable content that comes out in the year, it's eligible.
 
I think there will never be any clarity as long as remakes are eligible just based on a "smell test" or someone's subjective judgement about how big of an overhaul it is. I think that any remake-level release should be eligible, while ports and straight re-releases can be ineligible. That will provide more clarity and help address people's complaints about the process. For example, last year Pokemon Let's Go and Shadow of the Colossus would count, but Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze wouldn't.
 
what console war? Nintendo got the benefit of the doubt in a remaster during the vote and a third party publisher did not. It’s a direct rectification.
Viewing the whole issue through the lens of “this company got an advantage last year, so they should have to get a disadvantage now to ‘even the playing field' ” is absolutely a console war mindset. As if you are doing cumulative score-keeping for each publisher. Why should it matter at all which company published the games in question?
 
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Jun 29, 2018
1,321
Viewing the whole issue through the lens of “this company got an advantage last year, so they should have to get a disadvantage now to ‘even the playing field' ” is absolutely a console war mindset. As if you are doing cumulative score-keeping for each publisher. Why should it matter at all which company published the games in question?
It’s not a disadvantage. It’s more like a reparation.
 
Oct 29, 2017
277
I agree with the sentiment that if it's a game that came out in 2019, it's eligible. I don't care if it's a remaster, a remake, early access, etc... It's bad enough to do the formatting and not be able to just have a list without going into details about the game, you have to check whether it's eligible? This isn't the Academy Awards. To find out that something like Slay the Spire wasn't eligible for 2018 with it being my favorite game of the year just makes the whole thing kind of meh. People arguing whether PUBG should be eligible in 2017 too, like WTF. Why make this so hard? If it came out in some manner, it should be eligible for GOTY. Period.
 

werezompire

Zeboyd Games
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
1,917
Ditch the categories, allow any game released in the year to be valid even if it's a remake, remaster, or port, and don't require write-ups to vote. Maximum participation.
 
Oct 26, 2017
2,229
I know it's been brought up over and over and Hecht said they got it wrong but man, excluding remakes like Kiwami 2 after everyone had already voted last year was such a mindbogglingly awful decision. And while you can say this thread is to avoid further issues like that, I don't think it does because the problem wasn't the rules, it was the decision making that led to it.

I'm not a fan of the suggested new format, mainly because it seems like a lot of hassle over something that really isn't that important. The only time I ever really pay attention to the category awards is when something glaringly ridiculous is in them, which is something I think could be fixed with better regulation of the categories. It may take more time but I'm sure you could find some volunteers to help sort out the tags or just do it at the backend and remove games that don't fit from the lists, like AC Odyssey in the Switch list. I don't think many people would complain about that because unlike the overall GOTY list, category definitions are fairly arbitrary anyway. Or hey, just get rid of categories entirely.

Anyway, my suggestions:
1. Let remakes, remasters and ports count.
2. Bring back all the extra data we used to get on the old site. The new team has made an attempt but the graphs they've created for it are nothing compared to what we used to get, particularly the User Affinity lists which were always really popular.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,401
Ditch the categories, allow any game released in the year to be valid even if it's a remake, remaster, or port, and don't require write-ups to vote. Maximum participation.
having done these threads before - i recommend this option the most. now i didn't go all the way with it back then, as re-releases from the 90s onto virtual console, psn, and xbox live were pretty new ideas, but in 2019 - if it's donkey kong country 3 getting a vote because someone's playing it on switch, and it's the first year the game appeared on switch, then what's the difference between that and a late port of doom in 2017?

chances are might be someone who didn't grow up during the 90s and would have played that game for the first time as an adult. and if people are given that option, then some may exercise their ability to do that fairly, and some may cheese the system a bit, but i don't think it'll interfere with the final results in a major way. for the most part, exclusive games drive participation, and people will still vote for the newer games that were originally released in 2019.
 
Feb 15, 2018
506
I think you guys REALLY fucked up with the "What is a remake/remaster" stuff.
The only stuff that should be excluded are clear "HD Remasters" the likes of which we saw a ton of early in the generation- Last of Us PS4, Dishonored, God of War 3, etc. Switch ports, like Skyrim, Doom, Saints Row 3 etc should also be excluded. Otherwise, it's all eligible. It's fucking absurd that new games like Shadow of the Colossus, Yakuza Kiwami 2, etc were excluded from last years awards.
Yup
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,819
Nothing should be kept out- remakes, remasters, ports, none of it.

Hollow Knight was the best thing I played last year, and was my game of the year by a wide margin. The idea that I can't express that simply drives me away from participating, period.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,537
Regarding remasters/remakes. The truth of the matter is that, like the RPG Essentials thread, voters self-select their own standards for fulfilling some arbitrary requirement (in that case, "is the game an RPG?"; in this case, "is the game a remaster/remake that should be excluded?"). I think it would be best to stop the Sisyphean task of determining what remakes/remasters are or aren't eligible and just leave it up to the voters' crowdsourced wisdom to decide. A lot of people, including me, wouldn't vote for a remaster for GOTY, but in a scenario like RE2 or Let's Go where I feel there was a meaningful and distinctive remake, I would definitely include them. If more people feel the same then we'll end up with results that accurately reflect the community's thoughts and standards rather than an arbitrary blanket rule that can struggle when it comes to certain games.

In short: I think all remasters/remakes should be eligible and the community will just decide organically based on trends in the voting.
My view as well. Let wisdom of the crowd do the sorting, don't worry too much about it. If a remake or a port wins, it must have been for a bloody good reason enough
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,307
I think you guys REALLY fucked up with the "What is a remake/remaster" stuff.
The only stuff that should be excluded are clear "HD Remasters" the likes of which we saw a ton of early in the generation- Last of Us PS4, Dishonored, God of War 3, etc. Switch ports, like Skyrim, Doom, Saints Row 3 etc should also be excluded. Otherwise, it's all eligible. It's fucking absurd that new games like Shadow of the Colossus, Yakuza Kiwami 2, etc were excluded from last years awards.
This is pretty simple and obvious. Should be the way going forward.
 

Morrigan

Armoring
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
8,956
Since this is the feedback thread, well... at the time I repeatedly asked for two games to be included in the Excel list of Eligible Games and they never got added :( The games were Vampyr and Death's Gambit. Not a big deal, but still.... also, Vampyr should have been included under the Horror category, I have no idea why it wasn't.

Regarding what's been posted so far:

- I agree with the general sentiment of "allow anything that came out in year XXXX";

- Also agree that remake/remasters category should just be ditched and allow everything, a simple port is unlikely to win anwyay;

- But I don't agree with "remove the comments requirements". I think that should be kept in.

IIRC the comment requirement is very light too, you need to write a few lines to explain your votes. If you're that goddamn lazy I'm OK with you not participating. :P At the very least, if we allow comment-less list, they should be worth half the points or something.

- The categories... not sure how I feel about them. I like seeing some games that get otherwise little representation in the main top X, but you do get weird results sometimes. For platforms this can be mitigated by focusing on exclusives. For genres, the issue is that a lot of games are hybrids. God of War being Action, Action/adventure, Action/RPG. Vampyr being Action, Adventure, RPG, Horror. Recent Deus Ex would be First-person shooter, Action/Adventure, RPG. Etc. Maybe allow games to be in 2 or even 3 genres categories. I dunno.

what console war? Nintendo got the benefit of the doubt in a remaster during the vote and a third party publisher did not. It’s a direct rectification.
It’s not a disadvantage. It’s more like a reparation.
....You can't be serious
 

Miletius

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
739
Berkeley, CA
I agree overall that simple is better. Don't wade into the remake versus remaster war anymore, anything that requires subjective judgment is better left to the users. If a game is good enough to chart despite it being one of the above, it must have been really good because people naturally gravitate towards new experiences in gaming.

In terms of solving the underrepresentation of smaller communities, implementing some characteristics of other websites should be sufficient. In particular, having both a general GOTY award as well as awards for games that are ranked exclusively well among people's lists might circumvent the 'abundance over substance' problem that drowns out the smaller communities. Replacing categories with this sort of automated system will also decrease complexity.

I think the key takeaway is that simplicity should be the goal, as other posters have echoed. If you make voting difficult, then fewer people will vote. While having substantive write-ups would be nice, it's not necessary. How many people actually read those things in their entirety? My bet would be very few, probably less than 5 percent if I had to offer a guess. Instead it might be better to invite people to write on their favorite game and select a few quotes to be featured in GOTY, all optional, so that people who want to one and done can do so but people who want to do a small write up that may be featured in the GOTY can also get their say in.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,399
My only thing is I think the "require everyone to write a throwaway sentence for a vote to count" is ridiculous.

The entire point here is to get the aggregate GOTY from ResetEra members. Not just ResetEra members who want to write a little paragraph. It's silly. The data is all that matters.
I have to agree really. I have a feeling that mor people would vote if they didnt have to think of something to say for 10+ games
Edit: I think if anything at least just require the person to write about their number 1 game to promote some discussion and not have to write up for all the games on the list
 
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Oct 25, 2017
12,326
I didn’t participate in GOTY because I never got around to dealing with the descriptions on top of having to think through a list, so you are free to discount my take, but some quick thoughts:

1. I think the categories are kinda silly to begin with. I also strongly agree with the earlier suggestion that having the nominations unordered is just going to make the final 5 game ballot extremely bland, and I think it’s going to make less people want to participate. Like, when it comes to a narrative/writing/story category, I don’t want to sound elitist but - if given a list of categories to nominate for, a lot of people are just going to nominate any AAA game that made them feel the slightest thing that year. Any smaller indie game with amazing writing is probably going to be completely drowned out by the biggest 5 games that had a story. And that’s assuming that all the people who liked that game even got around to participating in the nomination thread; if they missed that, there’s 0 chance of their GOTY being rewarded for the thing it excels at. Honestly, this problem continues into the GOTY category voting itself but at least the single vote might split things enough to let something shine through later on the list...

2. The port/remake thing is completely unnecessary. Hollow Knight was indeed one of the best things I played last year (and this year so far, I guess) and I think it’s weird that I would not be able to acknowledge that. Just let any game that’s out this year somewhere count? The rules just kinda lead to weird PC/console/whatever arguing that’s already present in this thread and I wish we’d discourage that stuff. Actually, might as well get rid of some of the platform awards entirely.
 

Aigis

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
5,773
Personally to me, it sounds way too complicated.

Its like the steam awards where you really dont know what to put in every category because everyone has different ideas about what certain things qualify. Usually you just end up stuffing your favorite game into every category so people dont spread out the vote among categories to the point it doesnt make it in the top 5. That doesnt even account for dupes either.

Voting should be easy, this seems like way too much work.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,580
Going forward, we'd like to either clarify the rules regarding what is considered a remake/remaster and what isn't. Resident Evil 2, for instance, is a substantial overhaul from the original and thus should be eligible for GOTY. This was the case with Pokemon Let’s Go. Shadow of the Colossus, however, was simply a graphical upgrade, and in theory should not be eligible. That said, we could always have a “Best Remake” category. Simply put, if a game remake/remaster is MORE than just a graphics overhaul, then it would be eligible for GOTY.
I personally find it hard to call something like SHADOW OF THE COLOSSUS (2018), or Crash N. Sane Trilogy, "just a graphics overhaul". These games were remade from the ground-up, and although they try to be as 1:1 as possible in everything other than graphics and sound, they are made of new code and include things like new content and new physics (see: people's complaints about the hitboxes in the Crash 1 remake).

SOTC 2018 is a distinct entity from its predecessor and was near the top of the list on my 2018 Games of the Year. So, I personally think remakes of this nature should continue to be included. Simple ports (like Hollow Knight on Switch) or true "remasters" that are just running the original code with enhancements (like Turok on Switch/PC/XB1) can continue to be excluded.
 
Oct 29, 2017
5,060
Could the voting not simply take place with a polling system, where you have many of the top games via a poll that users can vote on for each category and then have a "write" in ballot if they wish to nominate a game that isn't available in the poll?

Then all you would need to do is scrape the write ins and tally those up, it'd probably be a lot less work for the people handling it.
 
Oct 28, 2017
2,796
For formatting errors, how exactly are votes tabulated anyway? Whatever system surely can parse out punctuation right? Basically everything can remove characters, so for example, a system that removes punctuation, spaces, "the[space]" and "a[space]" from the beginning of titles would convert "The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening" to "legendofzeldalinksawakening" which should standardize most of the submissions?
 
Oct 27, 2017
8,027
My opinion, for GOTY:

- Anything that comes out during a calendar year should be eligible
- Keep with the ordered list requirement
- To avoid name matching issues, consider making/providing a list of codes that people can paste/link to their comments
- Comments must be provided, but only one game required to have a long comment (not sure how to enforce this, but it's a nice-to-have)
- administrated by top-level site admins/community managers only

My opinion, for Technical Awards:

- Let the community own and process a separate thread for each (graphics, music, sound, gaming platforms)
- There are already voting threads for soundtrack awards and PC awards, as well as the all-time RPG ranking, so this model already works
- Perhaps an opportunity to "train" other community members to handle awards threads and share the workload
- would get more members involved in each tech/platform community

My opinion, for Genre Awards:

- Let the community own and process a separate thread for the major ones (RPG, fighting, shooter, ongoing, etc.)
- Allow a few exceptions for granularity if the community wants it (JRPG, WRPG, multiplayer RPG, rather than host yet another debate on "what is an RPG?")
- Perhaps an opportunity to "train" other community members to handle awards threads and share the workload
- allows a small increase in chances for dark-horse candidates to win something, which promotes greater interest in the awards/voting

My opinion, for the rest of the Awards proposed:

- make some of the proposed ones into an essay contest with a prize
- voters get to vote for one candidate for each category (badass, cutest, can't stop playing, whatever), but tell why in a paragraph
- community/staff can collaborate to judge the winner
- could also offer a "random" 2nd prize "just for entering" to promote more entries
- voters could use these short essays as their major comment in the GOTY voting thread

Good luck with the future plans!
 
Oct 30, 2017
683
I didn't vote because the mandatory description put me off, it's too much work.

I am totally against the idea of "anything released" goes. The idea that if Sega releases some ancient Master System game on Steam that should qualify is quite simply ridiculous. Just announce the decision guidelines (e.g. significant gameplay changes were made), make a decision amongst the mods/admins, STICK WITH SAID DECISION and stand by it. There's going to be a handful of sore fanboys, but that is always going to be case regardless of what you do.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,537
I didn't vote because the mandatory description put me off, it's too much work.

I am totally against the idea of "anything released" goes. The idea that if Sega releases some ancient Master System game on Steam that should qualify is quite simply ridiculous. Just announce the decision guidelines (e.g. significant gameplay changes were made), make a decision amongst the mods/admins, STICK WITH SAID DECISION and stand by it. There's going to be a handful of sore fanboys, but that is always going to be case regardless of what you do.
Why does it matter if, say, like 5 persons voted for a HD Remaster of Altered Beast on the Xbox One? If it's a lazy port, it's not going to chart any where near top. If it does chart to the top ten, they must have done something right with the port to warrant it