GOTY 2018 Wrap-Up & Future Planning

Grigorig

Member
Oct 30, 2017
688
Why does it matter if, say, like 5 persons voted for a HD Remaster of Altered Beast on the Xbox One? If it's a lazy port, it's not going to chart any where near top. If it does chart to the top ten, they must have done something right with the port to warrant it
It depends on the nature of the re-release, is it just an upres or were significant changes made? In 99% of cases this is completely clear cut.
 

massoluk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,724
It depends on the nature of the re-release, is it just an upres or were significant changes made? In 99% of cases this is completely clear cut.
Not really my point, man. Prohibiting remakes/ports are actions that served no purpose other than disqualifying games that distinguish themselves rightfully from prior releases or causing unnecessary ill will/confusion. Let the people vote for Altered Beast 2019 port, it's not going to get high enough votes to matter. On the other spectrum, Let the people vote for RE2 remake, it's different enough for people to acknowledge it as GOTY
 
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Dwebble

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
3,176
Ports are, short of something totally astonishing, not going to trouble the higher levels of the list, so why not let people vote for them if they feel that strongly? I fail to see how the integrity of the list is damaged by, I dunno, someone voting for Cuphead this year because that's when the Switch version came out.

You want as high a level of participation as possible for this sort of thing, and you don't get that by making games that people are passionate about ineligible.
 

Lunar15

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,096
1. Make it simple.
2. Anything goes - if it released in the year, it can be voted on.
3. Keep it simple.

At the end of the day, it's a forum's GOTY. I don't think people *actually* care all that much about the results, they just want validation. I just... wouldn't overthink it. If we get a situation where a port wins, I think that says something meaningful, just as meaningful as any other game winning that year.
 

StuBurns

Self Requested Ban
Banned
Nov 12, 2017
7,273
I don't know why it has to be so complicated.

If a game (or even a DLC, it shouldn't matter) releases on any platform, in any region, at any day on the calendar year, allow it. Anything else is pointlessly convoluted nonsense.
 

Jucksalbe

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
739
If the categories lead to so much trouble, drop them. If eligibility causes too much confusion, allow everything (and if Boaty McBoatFace wins, then it just does). If spelling causes too much problems....well, don't use some external form or something, look at that other forum, that GOTY thread is a total wasteland. Basically, why make a simple thing so complicated?
Also, if you have to have all those categories, having a special vote on "Best Music" wouldn't be needed, since there's already a special thread dedicated to just that (unless that isn't supposed to be a thing again this year?).
 

StarCreator

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,316
Fully agree with minimizing the barriers to participation. Everything released in a year, remake or not, should be eligible, and commentary should not be a requirement.
 

HueyFreeman

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,665
Why does there need to be so much lawyering about whether something is enough of an upgrade to count or not? Why can't something that released in the given period be eligible, period?
I would be in favor of this tbh. I was disappointed that SOTC was not eligible, as it clearly required a huge amount of effort and optimization, particularly to get it to 60fps. I can understand games that were just a resolution bump but that's not what it was.

I suppose it's a slippery slope, but just didn't sit right with me.
 

Harlequin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,226
I think my biggest barrier to participating in these is simply that I tend to not play games immediately after release. A lot of the time, I'll only play a game a year or more later when the GOTY poll for its respective release year has long been closed and the votes counted and compiled. I know that that's not really something that you guys can fix in the GOTY poll itself but maybe there could be separate straggler polls at some point where we revisit earlier years? (Not to replace the original results but simply for fun to compare how things have changed or not changed.) If you really do end up building some sort of infrastructure to facilitate easier voting/counting, this hopefully shouldn't be too much extra work to set up. And it could be like an off-season thing in the summer to spice things up between the proper GOTY polls (so, for example, in the summer of 2019, we could have a straggler vote for 2017, in the summer of 2020 a straggler vote for 2018 and so on).
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,556
New York City
Keep it as simple as possible, IMO.

But you know what would be pretty cool? You know how you can start typing something like @Swe and you'll see auto-popups with ResetEra usernames like @SweetNicole? If that can be used for writing game names, I'm sure it would be beneficial not just in Game of the Year tallying, but also other things as well. I know it's not a super easy thing to implement, but I think it would be a great addition to ResetEra if it were implemented.
 

Megatron

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,434
1. Make it simple.
2. Anything goes - if it released in the year, it can be voted on.
3. Keep it simple.

At the end of the day, it's a forum's GOTY. I don't think people *actually* care all that much about the results, they just want validation. I just... wouldn't overthink it. If we get a situation where a port wins, I think that says something meaningful, just as meaningful as any other game winning that year.
I agree with all of this, everything should count that was released this year, let people vote for it. The really old stuff isn’t going to get significant votes, but sometimes a newer game will find more success on another platform after word of mouth had a chance to spread (See Hollow Knight).



I can’t imagine not being able to vote for Resident Evil 2 this year, and I’m expecting to vote for Dragon Quest 11S this year with all that new content. Who is it hurting to let people vote for these games?



I guess you can put in an addendum allowing votes to be disqualified if deliberate vote manipulation is observed. If Square Enix fans get together and decide to try to get Final Fantasy 7 voted into the top 10 of this year’s voting (And good luck getting them to all agree to vote for 7 instead of 9, 10 and 12) then sure, you can throw those out if needed. But it’s probably not going to be a major issue.
 

btkadams

Member
Oct 25, 2017
595
It definitely needs to be simple. If a game released this year on a platform, people should be allowed to vote for it. It's worked well in the past.
 

Heropon.

Member
Oct 31, 2017
175
Ports are, short of something totally astonishing, not going to trouble the higher levels of the list, so why not let people vote for them if they feel that strongly? I fail to see how the integrity of the list is damaged by, I dunno, someone voting for Cuphead this year because that's when the Switch version came out.

You want as high a level of participation as possible for this sort of thing, and you don't get that by making games that people are passionate about ineligible.
Exactly my opinion. Just let people vote for whatever they want. Cuphead is a great example as many players will have the opportunity to play this game for the first time in 2019 and even if they fall in love with the game they won't be able to vote for it. What happened with Hollow Knight really was the biggest issue last year IMO.

For me the issue will be with CrossCode this year which is one of my most wanted games.
 
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Chronospherics

Games User Researcher at Player Research
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
1,963
Brighton
Wouldn't many of the tabulation issues be resolved by not tracking votes via a forum post? Why not simply distribute a survey instead? The thread could always simply ask posters to post their votes in text too, but the actual votes wouldn't be contingent on those posts being tallied.
 

Eolz

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,599
FR
Not sure if you're still accepting feedback over it but:
  • Allow remakes to be eligible for GOTYs and awards. Your criterias need some serious rethinking though (SOTC was a remake for example). A remaster is not a remake, and vice-versa. Remaster is basically just an HD port, it's not particularly complex (SOTC PS3 was a remaster, PS4 a remake).
  • Allow ports and remasters to be eligible and to be shown in the final list, but don't give them awards. Also, ports aren't remasters (Hollow Knight being a remaster in your list made no sense at all).
  • The categories stuff was indeed a weird issue. Just re-reading before posting (ACO on Switch...) should be enough imo.
  • I think separating the GOTY votes instead of the classic standard vote makes no sense at all, is a massive headache for everyone and will just lead to even less people actually bothering to vote (properly and at all) in the end. It seems like a big mistake to me and trying to fix a problem that doesn't exist by creating more issues elsewhere.
  • Those new categories (I know those are just examples and propositions at this point) are quite frankly ridiculous and a bit laughable. Stuff like "Game we can't stop playing" and "best guilty pleasure" (chosen amongst more that could be there) sound like you just want to be a MTV kids awards show and/or the Spike era Game Awards. Please reconsider that and stay with the regular genres if needed, as there would be no editorial choice or bias if that was going to be a possibility, and won't make those GOTY votes results a laughing stock.
  • The vote formatting felt great this year, so I don't really see a need to improve it, but I don't really see anything bad announced for the future either.

Another piece of feedback, not really related to the OP, but related to the GOTY related votes anyway:

Please actually pin the threads when they're up, and not weeks later when you think it might bring a few more voters. That has always been a big issue for the "OST of the year" thread in particular, which usually has a weak turnout, and get visibility only when it gets pinned one week before the vote is over. Take all those threads seriously, not just the ones pushed by some mods/admins, especially if you want to show you're taking the community seriously.

If needed, you could even pin just a thread announcement (no replies allowed, not sure how you call it) linking to all the different votes happening (GOTY vote, OST vote, fail of the year, etc), so you could have votes for your various categories, separate from the main GOTY vote thread that should stay clean from the categories proposed in the OP (as said above, please don't make it a GAMES AWARDS show with ridiculous forced categories that nobody actually want). So on top of the usual threads, you could have your "best character" thread if you want, that wouldn't have an impact on choices and motivation of more classical voters, as it's already the case with tons of people not voting in the "fail of the year" thread for example.

edit:
1. Make it simple.
2. Anything goes - if it released in the year, it can be voted on.
3. Keep it simple.

At the end of the day, it's a forum's GOTY. I don't think people *actually* care all that much about the results, they just want validation. I just... wouldn't overthink it. If we get a situation where a port wins, I think that says something meaningful, just as meaningful as any other game winning that year.
also this.
 
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SweetBellic

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,191
As someone who misses out on the vote each year, my biggest problem with the GOTY process is the timing. Having the vote in January makes meaningful participation for players with time constraints (and/or those who fancy longer games) nigh impossible. This isn't like Oscars season where you can knock out all the best picture nominees over a couple weekends; consuming games, even shorter linear ones, takes much more time. Voting shouldn't occur until the spring or even summer of the following year to give people time to actually play more of (and ruminate on) the games that come out in the typically stacked holiday season each year.
 

FaceHugger

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,603
Regarding the game of the year vote itself

  1. Index all games released that year. Even if it's a remaster or re release or an ongoing GaaS that received a significant content update or expansion. If someone wants to waste their vote on some Nintendo Switch Online re release, let them
  2. We vote against that index - and everyone gets only one vote (it's our "game of the year", after all, not "games")
  3. Lengthen the voting period by a week to give us more time to consider
Regarding categories, the fewer the better IMO, as games often stray into multiple genres anyway. I think this list would probably cover most everything while allowing enough differentiation to prevent a hybrid from winning twice - like a Zelda winning both best Action & Adventure as well as best RPG:

  • Action & Adventure (the two really often go hand in hand these days)
  • Card & Board
  • Fighting
  • GaaS (I really think recognizing good GaaS products should be something we do, as they're only going to increase in number in the coming years and cover more genres)
  • MOBA
  • Point and Click Adventure (to recognize the numerous adventure games that are point and click and not action)
  • Puzzle
  • Racing/Driving
  • RPG
  • Simulation
  • Sports
  • Strategy
  • VR
 

broony

Member
Oct 27, 2017
229
I was put off voting by the complexity and effort required to vote last time. If people want to put justification for their vote, let them. But don’t make it obligatory.

Was surprised when the results were published how few votes there were. Make it simple to vote.
 

McNum

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,125
Denmark
As for categories, I'd like to see some that are essentially just data driven.

Which game got most #1s?
Which game appeared on most ballots?
Which game has the highest average score per ballot it was on?
Which game is most popular by publisher?
What's the lowest ranking game that got a #1?
What's the highest ranking game that did not get a #1?

You know, things like that. Genres are nebulous these days, and multiplatform games makes it hard to do a best of platforms especially if one got a horrible port of it. So instead, pull from the data itself.

Also have VoteBot PM us the afficity lists that the old place had.
 

gogosox82

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,413
With the remakes/remasters/ports issue just let it be eligible if it came out in the calendar year. That is the easiest way to handle it.

Don't like the idea of categories with so many games crossing genres. I think its interesting from a meta data pov but having people actually vote on categories would I think create too many issues and having one game win like four or five categories.

Keep the lists with people have to make comments. It makes for good discussion. Maybe shorten it to 5? I don't know about other people but I haven't made it to 10 games I would actually nominate in the last 5 years so. Most I've gotten to is 7. I think 5 wouldn't be so hard to get to and then you can have more people participating.

Something that just popped into my head while I was writing this. What if you just made special thread for the categories and let the community run them. Like the rpg community could pick the best rpg, fighting game community pick the best fighting game, etc. It would get a little weird on stuff like best fps or best action game but I think that would be an intertesting way of having those categories represented.
 

Jawmuncher

Man Mega
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
10,980
Ibis Island
Remasters/Remakes
Remakes and remasters have been a common point of confusion. We received a lot of questions why a game such as Hollow Knight and Shadow of the Colossus was not eligible for Game of the Year voting while Let's Go, for example, was. While we've tried to be clear about what criteria is used to define the remake/remaster category, the results are still generating a lot of confusion.
Personally, I think this labeling should just be dropped. It's hard to make rules around this stuff and should just be at the communities discretion what gets GOTY. If the community wants to vote for Borderlands Remastered as their GOTY 2019, let them.
 

Magnus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,432
I've always wondered why we use a system that asks users to type out game names themselves rather than choose from a list. Manual input from users is going to be massively error prone, never mind the formatting concern. Why don't we simply use something like Survey monkey?