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Budi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,883
Finland
If you listen to that entire conversation and your takeaway is somehow that Greg or Andrea is supportive of those bigot assholes (Notch, PDP)....then you really need to work on your listening comprehension skills. Its an absurd notion. Greg is the last person in the world who would hold and express thoughts like that. Andreas "out of context" remark was a bit silly, but she's quite prone to being opinionated about things she doesnt fully understand. Greg here I think was just trying to not fight with a co-worker, and always expressed that he doesnt know the full extent of the comments/tweets/etc. Either way, they clearly dont condone or support these people, which is obvious to anyone who has watched Kinda Funny for 5 minutes.
While I agree that they probably aren't bigots themselves or intending to condone bigoted behaviour (though I have barely watched KF just that 5 minutes), the discussion they have about Notch and PDP leaves a lot to be desired. I mentioned Tim Schafer earlier in this thead and what he said at GDC, I think it's good to highlight.

"I hope this isn't controversial, but fuck white supremacists. I think it's sad that racists and other hate peddlers feel safe in any space that's remotely connected to videogames, and I think we all have an opportunity in our work, in our daily lives, and in our platforms big and small, to make it absolutely clear that we do not tolerate any of that crap."

This really didn't properly come through in the discussion. Now I don't say they need to start their every podcast with condemning bigotry and hate. But when you are talking about people like Notch and Pewdiepie, atleast know exactly what you are talking about so it doesn't come off as downplaying the issue. Since they talked exactly about the problematic issues around these two fools, but failed to convey that the shit ain't right in any context. Greg already did take some responsibility, but hopefully also adresses it again to his audience and not just here to us.

It's not just about condoning the behaviour of those two inviduals because it's the right thing to do, but also sending a message to the audience of KF.
 
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DrMario

Member
Oct 27, 2017
242
Hi!

Thanks for joining the thread with your uninformed hot take.

If you'd like to catch up on the many reasons why what they said (and more to the point, didn't say) was problematic and it doesn't matter that you personally want to stan for Greg and co, or that the "out of context" remark is more than a bit silly considering it's dismissing remarks such as "there clearly is an agenda against white men", or that ignorance isn't an excuse anymore after years of this being a thing (and technically decades of this being a "thing", on top of it being centuries of this being "a thing"), feel free to read the thread and then come back.
I've read plenty of the thread, thanks. If YOU would like to catch up on years and years of listening to Greg promote positivity and preaching to not be assholes, feel free. Perhaps remember back to the time that era's favorite whipping boy CM left the company because they wouldn't even show him an ounce of support over his "day without a woman" tweet because that's not how they wanted to be as a company.

I agree that if they aren't going to research a topic sufficiently, it shouldn't be talked about on-air. Sure. Still doesn't seem worth the 1400 post Internet personality assassination you guys just love so much.
 

DrMario

Member
Oct 27, 2017
242
The level of care they showed reporting this story speaks volumes.
The only "volumes" it speaks is that they do a cursory glance at the news before they go live and don't know everything about everything. they've called PDP and notch assholes many times in the past.


But your implication by "speaks volumes" that they somehow aren't against bigoted racist assholes is crazy.
 

Kurdel

Member
Nov 7, 2017
12,157
The only "volumes" it speaks is that they do a cursory glance at the news before they go live and don't know everything about everything. they've called PDP and notch assholes many times in the past.


But your implication by "speaks volumes" that they somehow aren't against bigoted racist assholes is crazy.

If being super unprofessional and calling white supremacist tweets "wacky" is their schtick, more power to them.

I don't follow either of them, so forgive me if I doubt their antifa bonifides based on this thread.
 

VaporSnake

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,603
It's pretty sad how quickly you guys start devouring one of your own. Greg might not have navigated that linguistic minefield in the optimal path or the way you would have liked him to, but he is indisputably still an ally/ the kind of person we need more of in the gaming community, not less.
 

Luckydog

Attempting to circumvent a ban with an alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
636
USA
I've read plenty of the thread, thanks. If YOU would like to catch up on years and years of listening to Greg promote positivity and preaching to not be assholes, feel free. Perhaps remember back to the time that era's favorite whipping boy CM left the company because they wouldn't even show him an ounce of support over his "day without a woman" tweet because that's not how they wanted to be as a company.

I agree that if they aren't going to research a topic sufficiently, it shouldn't be talked about on-air. Sure. Still doesn't seem worth the 1400 post Internet personality assassination you guys just love so much.

Greg didn't care one ounce about what CM said at any time until it started affecting the bottom line of KF......
 

NoKisum

Member
Nov 11, 2017
4,913
DMV Area, USA
I feel like if you watch the whole video and have watched Andrea and Greg's other content you know they weren't trying to defend their behavior. I swear some of ya'll see blood in the water and love to try to attack people. Greg is always honest and tries to do as best as he can. Sometimes things don't come out right or are misinterpreted. And the times when he has screwed up, he has learned from it and owned it. I NEVER took from that discussion that either of them were defending Pewdiepie or Notch, I feel like if anyone thinks that, they are just trying to stir up crap. You can look at how he has always talked about similar issues like this and know his stance. Don't just take a few lines out of context and crucify him for it.
If you listen to that entire conversation and your takeaway is somehow that Greg or Andrea is supportive of those bigot assholes (Notch, PDP)....then you really need to work on your listening comprehension skills. Its an absurd notion. Greg is the last person in the world who would hold and express thoughts like that. Andreas "out of context" remark was a bit silly, but she's quite prone to being opinionated about things she doesnt fully understand. Greg here I think was just trying to not fight with a co-worker, and always expressed that he doesnt know the full extent of the comments/tweets/etc. Either way, they clearly dont condone or support these people, which is obvious to anyone who has watched Kinda Funny for 5 minutes.
In today's culture, nuance is dead. Either you're actively for or against racist/homophobic/transphobic/anti-semitic/etc behavior. Neither Greg nor Andrea openly said "Fuck Notch/PDP" when talking about the topic, so that means...
 

Maneil99

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
5,252
In today's culture, nuance is dead. Either you're actively for or against racist/homophobic/transphobic/anti-semitic/etc behavior. Neither Greg nor Andrea openly said "Fuck Notch/PDP" when talking about the topic, so that means...
Makes excuses or downplaying the actions of racists normalizes their behavior
 

ody

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
16,116
People still defending them smh

"Uninformed"
They've been in the industry long enough to know about these human trashcans

There's no excuse for the "wacky" or "out of context" comments
 

Kurdel

Member
Nov 7, 2017
12,157
It's pretty sad how quickly you guys start devouring one of your own. Greg might not have navigated that linguistic minefield in the optimal path or the way you would have liked him to, but he is indisputably still an ally/ the kind of person we need more of in the gaming community, not less.

I don't follow him, but seeing how long he kept Colin around, I would rather have better allies than Greg fucking Miller.
 

Apathy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,992
It's pretty sad how quickly you guys start devouring one of your own. Greg might not have navigated that linguistic minefield in the optimal path or the way you would have liked him to, but he is indisputably still an ally/ the kind of person we need more of in the gaming community, not less.

There is no minefield to navigate. It's simple. Racists/bigots are bad. Notch and PDP are fucking shit. See how easy that was? You shouldn't have ties to people like that that you're scared of severing regardless of what you do.
 

Icemonk191

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,814
It's pretty sad how quickly you guys start devouring one of your own. Greg might not have navigated that linguistic minefield in the optimal path or the way you would have liked him to, but he is indisputably still an ally/ the kind of person we need more of in the gaming community, not less.
If he's a ally who need enemys.
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
56,969
It's pretty sad how quickly you guys start devouring one of your own. Greg might not have navigated that linguistic minefield in the optimal path or the way you would have liked him to, but he is indisputably still an ally/ the kind of person we need more of in the gaming community, not less.
No, what's pretty sad is people, like yourself, who don't understand the harm that lack of outright condemnation does.

Gregg was avoiding putting a pin in it, for whatever reason, which helps support and perpetuate.

Nothing but outright stances against hate will work Gregg's behaviour this is not being an ally... to me it's saying the least you can to appear to care without alienating a portion of your audience.

Is he a demon that should be shunned for this? To me, no. I can understand people who are tired of this kind of non-committal to calling out hate, though. I think he should take an active stance as he has a platform, I think he should avoid ANY ambiguity (which is not hard to do) if he truly cares.
 

Deleted member 21709

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
23,310
The only "volumes" it speaks is that they do a cursory glance at the news before they go live and don't know everything about everything. they've called PDP and notch assholes many times in the past.


But your implication by "speaks volumes" that they somehow aren't against bigoted racist assholes is crazy.

Andrea isn't. She hand waved it. She said that Notch's tweets were taken out of context.

Greg is seemingly cool with it, 'ol Pewds just didn't go to college and is a victim of his success!
 

DrMario

Member
Oct 27, 2017
242
astro

Using his platform to call out hate is what Greg's been doing for 4 years. Shockingly, y'all know nothing about that (or willingly ignore it) because this one time he didn't condemn things strongly enough and have decided to deride him for 1400 messages.

And i just don't agree that he wasn't "clear".
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
56,969
So to bring things f



Using his platform to call out hate is what Greg's been doing for 4 years. Shockingly, y'all know nothing about that (or willingly ignore it) because this one time he didn't condemn things strongly enough and have decided to deride him for 1400 messages.
His past behaviour has nothing to do with this instance where he failed to be clear about it.

And people are upset for a good reason, don't hand wave the thread. People have a right to be upset when peopel in his position are not clear about condeming hate. And he would have had first time viewers in that audience, on topics like this he should always be 100% clear where he stands imo.
 

kiaaa

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,849
astro

Using his platform to call out hate is what Greg's been doing for 4 years. Shockingly, y'all know nothing about that (or willingly ignore it) because this one time he didn't condemn things strongly enough and have decided to deride him for 1400 messages.

And i just don't agree that he wasn't "clear".

Greg drops platitudes here and there but I wouldn't say what he does is calling out hate.

This was just a really bad look for KF.
 

saenima

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,892
It's Greg we're talking about.

What does this even mean? Is Greg supposed to be the magic word that guarantees this particular human being is without fault or shortcomings? I don't know the dude. You don't know the dude. I'm 100% sure the only person in this entire thread who knows what's going on inside Greg's head is Greg himself. So can you knock it off with this Jesus Greg nonsense? Everyone is capable of being the best person and the worst person. Everyone.
 

Kurdel

Member
Nov 7, 2017
12,157
Greg Miller is a cynical coward who sacrificed me to his 1.6 million followers when I publicly criticized his toxic (and now fully excommunicated) co-host. Cool guy! https://twitter.com/GameOverGreggy/status/828402999844339713

Wow I didn't know about this, what a dick

Kinda Funny is gonna be just fine!

Sure, people/websites who don't want to call out racists too hard in case they burn bridges usually do financially just fine.
 

Alex840

Member
Oct 31, 2017
5,120
Finally got around to watching the segments in full.

Have to say, I don't really have anything bad to say about Greg, it seems like it was almost all Andrea. She seemed to be downplaying everything to a staggering degree, from outright ignoring the Microsoft statement by saying it was 'just PR speak' to saying the PDP situation was fine because 'he apologised for it, he knows it was wrong, he's not going to do it again'. Except he has done it again. And again. And again.

I think Greg needs to read up more if he's going to engage in these topics, but Andrea really should have done better.

Edit: By Andrea not wanting to ruffle any feathers and offend anyone that may give her work in the future, she may end up ostracising herself from certain situations if she doesn't take basic stances on these types of issues.
 
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DrMario

Member
Oct 27, 2017
242
Greg Miller is a cynical coward who sacrificed me to his 1.6 million followers when I publicly criticized his toxic (and now fully excommunicated) co-host. Cool guy! https://twitter.com/GameOverGreggy/status/828402999844339713


Good to know bobs still playing the victim card. I find it so interesting how bothered you were about Greg calling you out, when you go out of your way to search out and screenshot Colin's tweets (even after he blocked you) just to get the publicity. You have no right to mockingly call someone else a "cool guy. "

So Greg isn't allowed to do to you exactly what you do to others, just because he has a bigger twitter following? And of course your ignore the part of his tweet where he's being critical of the hateful internet mob.
 

DoubleTake

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,529
The problem is when left as basic and blunt as this is puts equal responsibility on the side of victims to be 'better' to bigots.

Talking about bigots, racists and transphobic people before pushing the "better to each other" message is simply flawed. You're taking a situation where one side is projecting abuse and intolerance at the other, standing between the two and saying "why can't we get along".

We understand you don't ask a bullied child to be nicer to their bully and hope it goes away, I'm not sure why this is more complicated when applied to adults, racists and bigots. The onus on improvement and betterment is on the abuser.

You may be trying to say 'why can't we all just get along' meaning humans as a whole but it falls flat in the face of the above and is a somewhat redundant and frankly childlike statement to make. When used directly in relation to someone using hateful and hurtful language to demean and suppress others and entire races it's entirely misplaced. "Why can't we all get along?" - ask the people that persist in ensuring we can't. Not pose the question of how we can 'be better' to victims and people who aren't bigots.
SHe comes off as defending. You don't say notch made "wacky" comments after the shit he's said.

Andrea says she wants to "support" PDP because he's the heart of youtube. That tells me she'll brush off anything he says unless it's bad enough.

Also if they aren't knowledgeable. Then don't fucking talk about shit and offer opinions. It's incredibly irresponsible to cover these topics among their viewers and be ignorant about them. They are about to attract a dangerous fucking crowd because they were too short sighted about this.

They better come out tomorrow and apologize and and condemn All the comments made by Notch and PDP.

Just gonna quote these again in case you missed em. gameovergreggy
 

saenima

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,892
astro

Using his platform to call out hate is what Greg's been doing for 4 years. Shockingly, y'all know nothing about that (or willingly ignore it) because this one time he didn't condemn things strongly enough and have decided to deride him for 1400 messages.

And i just don't agree that he wasn't "clear".

Doing good things on one day does not give you a free pass to do shitty things on the next day without criticism.

This is not complicated.
 

Nairume

SaGa Sage
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,940
Good to know bobs still playing the victim card. I find it so interesting how bothered you were about Greg calling you out, when you go out of your way to search out and screenshot Colin's tweets (even after he blocked you) just to get the publicity. You have no right to mockingly call someone else a "cool guy. "

So Greg isn't allowed to do to you exactly what you do to others, just because he has a bigger twitter following? And of course your ignore the part of his tweet where he's being critical of the hateful internet mob.
Colin is the one who pays people to keep track of what other people tweet about him. A little dunking on precious snek boy is hardly unwarranted.
 

Mezoly

Jimbo Replacement
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,401
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