Greg Miller and Andrea Rene handwave Notch and PewDiePie racist, transphobic and anti-semitic behaviour (UP: GM and AR respond; see threadmarks)

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DrMario

Member
Oct 27, 2017
232
Fucking knew you were a Colin fan by your previous shitposts but this just confirmed it.

Snek boi still has shooters out here, wild.
Colin fan? Give me a break. I don’t give a crap about his current venture and don’t follow him. I tolerated him when he was a part of KF because he had good gaming insight despite my distaste for his politics. I definitely wasn’t interested in paying him for half assed history lessons and certainly don’t care to see what he’s up to these days.

I’m actually a fan of BOB’s content, which is how/why i noticed his behavior on twitter. I think bob does fantastic work with retronauts and it’s an awesome retro gaming podcast. I’ve stopped listening as frequently due to his twitter behavior, which included attacking his own fans and saying he didn’t want their fandom when they dared to voice displeasure with how he was acting.


Obviously we’re far off topic. I just think if people are going to use a twitter interaction between Bob and Greg as “evidence” that Greg isn’t a nice guy, they should be aware that Bob is clearly an instigator.
 

Kurdel

Member
Nov 7, 2017
8,627
Just watched the video linked in the OP. Maybe I'm missing something, but Greg condemns Notch in the video, doesn't he?

"He says weird-ass, horrible, mean shit on Twitter all the time." -Greg Miller on Notch, timestamped.

Shortly after, Miller points out that transphobic speech has ramifications.
Reminds me of when Dennis and Dee have a podcast.

Andrea: "I don't see why we have to talk about this!"
Greg: "This is the Internet now! Everyone wants us to pick sides! This story is getting clicks we have totalk about it!"
Andrea: "lol I don't care"
 

Ingueferroque

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
10,737
Just watched the video linked in the OP. Maybe I'm missing something, but Greg condemns Notch in the video, doesn't he?

"He says weird-ass, horrible, mean shit on Twitter all the time." -Greg Miller on Notch, timestamped.

Shortly after, Miller points out that transphobic speech has ramifications.
Keep watching. The issue is with Andrea hand waving Notch's specific comments and completely misrepresenting the issues, and Greg standing up for Pewdiepie.

It's one video. Why can't everyone commenting at least watch it all?
 

D i Z

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,307
Where X marks the spot.
This oozes white privilege.
Its easy to see these as people, Notch and PDP, as nice guys who just sometimes happened to say something that the internet took the wrong way, thats easy if you have never experienced racism and discrimination as a minority and never even once considered that your own perspective might not be suited to get an accurate view on every topic.
100% this.
 

Budi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,995
Finland
Just watched the video linked in the OP. Maybe I'm missing something, but Greg condemns Notch in the video, doesn't he?

"He says weird-ass, horrible, mean shit on Twitter all the time." -Greg Miller on Notch, timestamped.

Shortly after, Miller points out that transphobic speech has ramifications.
Yeah he does. The problem was more with Andrea and also with Greg not challenging and putting his foot down more. I do think Greg seemed bit nervous, playing with his ring and all. Though I don't know if that's something he commonly does, because I don't follow him.
 

MultiMoo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,568
Silicon Valley
Just watched the video linked in the OP. Maybe I'm missing something, but Greg condemns Notch in the video, doesn't he?

"He says weird-ass, horrible, mean shit on Twitter all the time." -Greg Miller on Notch, timestamped.

Shortly after, Miller points out that transphobic speech has ramifications.
I've met Greg on several occasions and know he doesn't stand for this kind of stuff. However, that doesn't change the fact that he didn't push further when asking for "more" and Andrea handwaved the tweets as "out of context".

I get that he was trying to avoid arguing with his co-host on the show, but it came off kind of weird. He did in fact condemn it, and has always stood against that kind of behavior, but instead of immediately hating on people (not talking about Notch and PDP here) he has always been about being better towards each other, and trying to educate people on topics. This seems to have not come to fruition this time.

Also want to point out that he took time to respond here, and will likely respond to this in the future, but RIGHT NOW he has been celebrating his wedding anniversary. That means he took time to respond to this, and openly invited folks to communicate with him about it during a time where he is with his wife. Let's not throw people under the bus with hatred, and engage them on this topic. It's serious, and should be properly processed. People should learn from this.

This includes Andrea, who is busy with Borderlands 3 but is the one who was very much hand waving all of this stuff and I think it's important to stress that its not okay. If they are going to talk about this stuff a little more research into it will go a long way, and not condone that kind of behavior. PDP and Notch have a history of racism, bigotry, etc. and KFG should absolutely not dismiss that.
 

truly101

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,192
I don't know enough about Notch to comment on him, but PDP has done more than enough at this point to show that he is unquestionably a piece of shit. I used to feel bad for Andrea when she was a guest on Weekend Confirmed because she got a lot of shit thrown her way, from being a corporate shill to the typical misogyny that would be thrown her way. I'm only familiar with GM from his PS I I love You podcast that i could only listen to a few times because honestly he and colin were insufferable. Still, pretty disappointing takes.
 

IanGrag

Member
May 1, 2018
305
I can't believe this is still going. Hopefully tomorrow or Friday when Greg's back on KFGD he'll be able to talk about it with the audience. As I said last night, Greg is no bigot, and that podcast clearly shows this. He could have stood up more to Andrea, and I wish he did, but he probably could see that she was sticking to her guns and saw no point. Their audience knows that they are not supporters of PDP or Notch.

Let it go guys. Save this energy for true bigots.
 

Primethius

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,469
It's pretty sad how quickly you guys start devouring one of your own. Greg might not have navigated that linguistic minefield in the optimal path or the way you would have liked him to, but he is indisputably still an ally/ the kind of person we need more of in the gaming community, not less.
"He's an ally, he's an ally"

...they all yell for the white dude who rolled over and let his cohost say some really dumb shit.

You wanna know who else, once upon a time, claimed to be an ally? Colin Moriarty. Folks defended him too at one point.

Folks need to stop stupidly assigning the label of "ally" just because a white dude hasn't blatantly said racist shit.
 

Hzsn724

Member
Nov 10, 2017
489
Not really sure why they try to talk about real world issues when they obviously don't understand how it effects real world people.

These "journalists" need to stick to fake world problems like loot boxes and the Sonic the Hedgehog movie...... they just aren't equipped to handle real world issues because they don't read enough about them or talk to enough people that are actually effected negatively by this rhetoric.
 

Dirtyshubb

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,765
I can't believe this is still going. Hopefully tomorrow or Friday when Greg's back on KFGD he'll be able to talk about it with the audience. As I said last night, Greg is no bigot, and that podcast clearly shows this. He could have stood up more to Andrea, and I wish he did, but he probably could see that she was sticking to her guns and saw no point. Their audience knows that they are not supporters of PDP or Notch.

Let it go guys. Save this energy for true bigots.
Or maybe we need to hold influential people in the industry to higher standards and complain when they don't do the bare minimum of research on a sensitive subject and do a really shitty job of discussing the subject and at least in Andrea's case, defend known bigots.
 
Oct 25, 2017
725
Canada
Wait is there really 16 pages over this? When I listened to the episode yesterday none of what Greg said made me believe he supports anything PDP or Notch have done.
 

IanGrag

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May 1, 2018
305
User banned (3 days): Inflammatory posting, dismissing concerns surrounding intolerant rhetoric
Or maybe we need to hold influential people in the industry to higher standards and complain when they don't do the bare minimum of research on a sensitive subject and do a really shitty job of discussing the subject and at least in Andrea's case, defend known bigots.
That point was made at least 25 pages ago. At this point people are just curbstomping him while he's already down. And this site doesn't just do it for social justice (which I'm not complaining about, call out bigots), but remember when Daemon Hatfield made a mistake reviewing Resident Evil 2? People were treating him like he personally murdered their family in cold blood.

I think this site has a mob mentality and likes to bully people. It's become more clear to me that that is the case.
 

kiaaa

Member
Oct 27, 2017
201
That point was made at least 25 pages ago. At this point people are just curbstomping him while he's already down. And this site doesn't just do it for social justice (which I'm not complaining about, call out bigots), but remember when Daemon Hatfield made a mistake reviewing Resident Evil 2? People were treating him like he personally murdered their family in cold blood.

I think this site has a mob mentality and likes to bully people. It's become more clear to me that that is the case.
Think you're out of your depth.
 

i-Lo

Avenger
Oct 31, 2017
10,076
Not America
I can't believe this is still going. Hopefully tomorrow or Friday when Greg's back on KFGD he'll be able to talk about it with the audience. As I said last night, Greg is no bigot, and that podcast clearly shows this. He could have stood up more to Andrea, and I wish he did, but he probably could see that she was sticking to her guns and saw no point. Their audience knows that they are not supporters of PDP or Notch.

Let it go guys. Save this energy for true bigots.
This here is the one of the biggest sore spots and why people are calling him out. This is aside from the fact that he should have done more research about PDP.

Point is most people here have assigned "stubbornness" as a aspect of Andrea's character with cited examples. In essence this signifies regardless of what ought to be right and even when Gregg knows it, he refrains from arguing with Andrea because it may drive a wedge between them publicly on the show (and given examples citing Andrea for doubling down on incorrect statements or simply ignoring corrections, perhaps the relationship in private is no different).

Thus, it seems that maintaining amicable relationship and maintaining peace with Andrea is paramount whilst placating the disappointed people with platitudes.

Seems very par for the course for a corporate entity that deals in the gaming business.

PS: I know Greg is not a bigot and he could better to not fold to opinions that perpetuate normalizing of such behaviour.
 

jviggy43

Member
Oct 28, 2017
13,465
Just watched the video linked in the OP. Maybe I'm missing something, but Greg condemns Notch in the video, doesn't he?

"He says weird-ass, horrible, mean shit on Twitter all the time." -Greg Miller on Notch, timestamped.

Shortly after, Miller points out that transphobic speech has ramifications.
Which he then goes on to agree with Andrea that its just drama, re contextualizing why this was an issue for the first place and instead places blame on those calling out notch for his discriminatory behavior. They absoltuely turn the tables back on those who would take issue with him being there which is nothing short of gas lighting whats happening here, with greg doing a sarcastic voice decrying the internet always needs to take sides and fight someone, as if taking a stand against discrimination is just looking to pick fights with pitchforks. Its honestly pathetic and while Greg certainly didn't come off as bad as Andrea (who outright when to bat for these people), its still incredibly fucking disappointing that this was a position coming from a so called ally.
 

stupei

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,700
That point was made at least 25 pages ago. At this point people are just curbstomping him while he's already down. And this site doesn't just do it for social justice (which I'm not complaining about, call out bigots), but remember when Daemon Hatfield made a mistake reviewing Resident Evil 2? People were treating him like he personally murdered their family in cold blood.

I think this site has a mob mentality and likes to bully people. It's become more clear to me that that is the case.
I just don't know if the two people who co-hosted a major game reveal today will ever recover from this brutal curbstomping, it's so true.
 

Luckydog

Attempting to circumvent a ban with an alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
636
USA
Not really sure why they try to talk about real world issues when they obviously don't understand how it effects real world people.

These "journalists" need to stick to fake world problems like loot boxes and the Sonic the Hedgehog movie...... they just aren't equipped to handle real world issues because they don't read enough about them or talk to enough people that are actually effected negatively by this rhetoric.
But that’s the point Greg is a fucking trained journalist. He should know better. He’s not just a guy who started writing game reviews at 14 and got lucky. He went to J school.
 

Bobo Dakes

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
21,493
What are you implying with this?
This thread is a mess. What could've of been an easy opportunity to express disappointment and fairly criticize KF's middle of the road stance, maybe even be a teaching experience, got waaay too charged and it is now a shit show of personal biases from personal insults, they've always sucked, to shit about Colin who has nothing to do with this, to Bob whatever to people actually asking unironically if Greg will step down. Doing waaay too much.

What else would it mean?
 

jviggy43

Member
Oct 28, 2017
13,465
I can't believe this is still going. Hopefully tomorrow or Friday when Greg's back on KFGD he'll be able to talk about it with the audience. As I said last night, Greg is no bigot, and that podcast clearly shows this. He could have stood up more to Andrea, and I wish he did, but he probably could see that she was sticking to her guns and saw no point. Their audience knows that they are not supporters of PDP or Notch.

Let it go guys. Save this energy for true bigots.
This is such a BS response to this. They themselves may not be bigots but they were mounting a defense of bigots with Andrea straight up gaslighting what notch had done and turning the blame back on anyone who was upset about this as looking for drama. All bigotry should be called out and criticized, regardless of who it comes from. No one gets a pass because theyve said nice things in the past or operate under the guise of being an ally before saying said bigotry. Reap what you sow and they wanted to do a segment where they defended and gaslighted what these problems were, and now theyre rightfully getting called for it.

This doesn't mean we need to crucify them or wish they'd lose their jobs (something the grand majority of people in this thread aren't doing btw). However until they make it right by acknowledging they were wrong and walking back their statement there is 0 reason to be suggesting we just let it go. Telling others to save energy for real bigots while overlooking bigotry from those who are supposedly allies is a bunch of BS. There should be no discrimination when it comes to calling out bigotry.
 

jviggy43

Member
Oct 28, 2017
13,465
This thread is a mess. What could've of been an easy opportunity to express disappointment and fairly criticize KF's middle of the road stance, maybe even be a teaching experience, got waaay too charged and it is now a shit show of personal biases from personal insults, they've always sucked, to shit about Colin who has nothing to do with this, to Bob whatever to people actually asking unironically if Greg will step down. Doing waaay too much.

What else would it mean?
The grand majority of this thread is doing exactly what it is youre saying is a good opportunity. Some people are getting too emotionally charged yes. But by and large that is not the overarching discussion in this thread. Unfortunately the conversation would be going much smoother if people stopped trying to sugar coat what they did and giving them a pass so we could actually maybe get them to retract a lot of the shitty takes they gave on their episode. Which really shouldn't be a big deal to expect since all its asking is to repudiate two bigots
 

ultima786

Member
Oct 28, 2017
530
Sad to see this thread. KF offered a nuanced yet critical take on the mistakes of famous youtubers, acknowledging their flaws and terrible errors, denounced them, and showed appreciation for their (his?) apology and attempt to fix their mistakes.... and we call that handwaiving?

We can recognize the internet’s lynch mob mentality for what it is, while also fully recognizing the evils of racism and ethnocentrism. I believe that is what Greg did in this podcast.

I’m likely the same ethnic background as OP, btw, and also a proud practicing religious Muslim (a minority on two fronts) . Both sources of tension yet meaning in my life living in America. So need to check my privilege or handwave away my nuance as covert racism or a minority complex.
 

RPGam3r

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,821
This looks like people fighting their allies more than their enemies. He's good but not good enough kinda shit.

Threads like this always make me have mental images of sharks having a feeding frenzy.
 

jviggy43

Member
Oct 28, 2017
13,465
Sad to see this thread. KF offered a nuanced yet critical take on the mistakes of famous youtubers, acknowledging their flaws and terrible errors, denounced them, and showed appreciation for their (his?) apology and attempt to fix their mistakes.... and we call that handwaiving?

We can recognize the internet’s lunch mob mentality for what it is, while also fully recognizing the evils of racism and ethnocentrism. I believe that is what Greg did in this podcast.

I’m likely the same ethnic background as OP, btw, and also a proud practicing religious Muslim (a minority on two fronts) . Both sources of tension yet meaning in my life living in America. So need to check my privilege or handwave away my nuance as covert racism or a minority complex.
This is fucking bullshit. A nuanced discussion where they literally didn't even read the tweets or comments either of these individuals made which got them into trouble in the first place? Of which they stated we didn't need to get into. Are you fucking trolling with this?
 

Bobo Dakes

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
21,493
The grand majority of this thread is doing exactly what it is youre saying is a good opportunity. Some people are getting too emotionally charged yes. But by and large that is not the overarching discussion in this thread. Unfortunately the conversation would be going much smoother if people stopped trying to sugar coat what they did and giving them a pass so we could actually maybe get them to retract a lot of the shitty takes they gave on their episode. Which really shouldn't be a big deal to expect since all its asking is to repudiate two bigots
We read different threads.
 

Nanashrew

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,021
Wait is there really 16 pages over this? When I listened to the episode yesterday none of what Greg said made me believe he supports anything PDP or Notch have done.
Greg and Andrea don't have to endorse it. They simply handwaved it with milquetoast takes. Plenty can say they do not stand for these things, but actions and a strong clear stance must accompany that.
Sad to see this thread. KF offered a nuanced yet critical take on the mistakes of famous youtubers, acknowledging their flaws and terrible errors, denounced them, and showed appreciation for their (his?) apology and attempt to fix their mistakes.... and we call that handwaiving?

We can recognize the internet’s lynch mob mentality for what it is, while also fully recognizing the evils of racism and ethnocentrism. I believe that is what Greg did in this podcast.

I’m likely the same ethnic background as OP, btw, and also a proud practicing religious Muslim (a minority on two fronts) . Both sources of tension yet meaning in my life living in America. So need to check my privilege or handwave away my nuance as covert racism or a minority complex.
LOL

Pewdiepie has not earned any respect or any benefit of the doubt because of how often they have to apologize for their own terrible behavior and constantly repeating them. PDP can put up or shut up, because at this point, he has earned nothing. Period.
 

kiaaa

Member
Oct 27, 2017
201
Sad to see this thread. KF offered a nuanced yet critical take on the mistakes of famous youtubers, acknowledging their flaws and terrible errors, denounced them, and showed appreciation for their (his?) apology and attempt to fix their mistakes.... and we call that handwaiving?
Did you miss the Notch part? Or the fact that PDP repeated his racist shit multiple times? Calling them "mistakes" is handwaving the issue and that's before Andrea upped the ante and started defending them.
 

Majora's Mask

Member
Oct 26, 2017
586
This thread is a mess. What could've of been an easy opportunity to express disappointment and fairly criticize KF's middle of the road stance, maybe even be a teaching experience, got waaay too charged and it is now a shit show of personal biases from personal insults, they've always sucked, to shit about Colin who has nothing to do with this, to Bob whatever to people actually asking unironically if Greg will step down. Doing waaay too much.

What else would it mean?
I wholheartedly agree. There is nothing worth getting out of this thread.
 

DrMario

Member
Oct 27, 2017
232
This looks like people fighting their allies more than their enemies. He's good but not good enough kinda shit.

Threads like this always make me have mental images of sharks having a feeding frenzy.
Yup pretty much. I’ve been following Greg for the better part of a decade, and he’s always made it quite clear how much he abhors bigots and hate and all that nonsense.

Then he has one podcast where he doesn’t fight his co-host strongly enough (despite again discussing how comments were unacceptable) and it gets a thread like this. It’s madness.

And of course Greg will clarify all this and again condemn hate speech because he’s done that for years. But this time the era crowd will claim victory— like they coaxed it out of him — when all of his fans already know how he feels.
 

Schaft0620

Member
Oct 25, 2017
728
User banned (3 days): Inflammatory posting, dismissing concerns surrounding intolerant rhetoric
Just watched the video linked in the OP. Maybe I'm missing something, but Greg condemns Notch in the video, doesn't he?

"He says weird-ass, horrible, mean shit on Twitter all the time." -Greg Miller on Notch, timestamped.

Shortly after, Miller points out that transphobic speech has ramifications.
Sssshhhhh that doesn't fit the angry mob mentality right now. Nobody wants your context and explanations. We want outrage at headlines before reading the body. We don't have time to actually watch the video, this is 2019. We got our tweets drafted already and we want to know where the bodies are buried at KF. Even if that means spending our entire day looking up old tweets of Greg Miller defending his best friend.
 

DarkConfidant

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,178
Detroit, MI
I haven’t listened in a few months just because of shifting interests and how I spend my time has been chaotic at the moment, but that makes me really sad.

White Folks don’t accidentally use the N word.
The most subscribed to and most popular YouTuber isn’t being attacked by lynch mobs. His critics are.

Notch is obviously cray cray and there should be no mistake whether he’s just saying weird stuff or whether he believes in them enough to destroy business opportunities. Even Microsoft doesn’t want anyone to be confused as to why hes not there. Same folks confuse people all the time with their damn operating systems, but no, they’re pretty clear about this asshole.

I’m glad Greg cleated things up, though. Hopefully things are more clear in the future.
 
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DigitalOp

Member
Nov 16, 2017
7,452
This oozes white privilege.
Its easy to see these as people, Notch and PDP, as nice guys who just sometimes happened to say something that the internet took the wrong way, thats easy if you have never experienced racism and discrimination as a minority and never even once considered that your own perspective might not be suited to get an accurate view on every topic.
You said it best
 

Gundam

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,160
Sssshhhhh that doesn't fit the angry mob mentality right now. Nobody wants your context and explanations. We want outrage at headlines before reading the body. We don't have time to actually watch the video, this is 2019. We got our tweets drafted already and we want to know where the bodies are buried at KF. Even if that means spending our entire day looking up old tweets of Greg Miller defending his best friend.
Did you even read his milquetoast response or why it’s an issue or is funny youtube man just too precious
 

Nairume

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,260
Then he has one podcast where he doesn’t fight his co-host strongly enough (despite again discussing how comments were unacceptable) and it gets a thread like this. It’s madness.
If you only look at the one podcast and not the years of giving a platform to his awful former co-host and cozying up to people like Boogie, then sure its just one time.
 

Nerokis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,713
Sssshhhhh that doesn't fit the angry mob mentality right now. Nobody wants your context and explanations. We want outrage at headlines before reading the body. We don't have time to actually watch the video, this is 2019. We got our tweets drafted already and we want to know where the bodies are buried at KF. Even if that means spending our entire day looking up old tweets of Greg Miller defending his best friend.
Ironically, you're deliberately ignoring the context for 90% of the discussion in this thread.

Not a lot of people think Greg defended Notch's actions. People think Andrea painted Notch in far too generous a light, and Greg was too accommodating.

It doesn't require an "angry mob mentality" to believe that two influential industry figures releasing content that equivocated on someone like Notch being a piece of shit warrants discussion, scrutiny, and criticism.
 

JakeNoseIt

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,235
I wholheartedly agree. There is nothing worth getting out of this thread.
This is disgustingly insulting to the posters that have identified themselves as part of oppressed groups and feel hurt by what transpired.

Kotaku put out a piece today in which the author confessed frustration at others not leading the conversation and calling out NetherRealm Studios' decision to use Ronda Rousey in their game. The author identifies themselves as part of a group of which Rousey has used her platform to oppress.

Dismissals like yours are why people don't speak up. Ugh.
 
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