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thecowboypoet

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
2,012
I never said you were digging to find bad stuff. But whenever people criticize Greg, I always wait for someone to post that video as "proof" that he's some kind of monster.

I also have no idea what "semi-scandal" you're referring to after KFL1 (which I attended).

Ah, you're right, sorry, I see what you're saying now. Yeah, I remember at the time being surprised no one said anything about it and I've never seen it get brought up since.
The scandal was when Greg helped a KF fan lie to a girl to trick her into thinking he was a member of Kinda Funny so he could sleep with her, which he did and then wrote into the twitch show to brag about it. Some people were irked that it was "rape by deception". I'm a little foggy on the exact details it's been awhile but I believe that's the gist. Anyways, sorry if I'm getting things off topic!

That is from 2012. You can pull up shit front ANYONE's pst and find something awful. Let's grow up here. Judge him on this video? Sure. Something from 7 years ago? That's stupid childish shit



People are allowed to grow, even as adults. Is this a serious stance you're trying to take?

What benefit does discussing this have to the current issue?

That's why you'll see I labeled it as history.
 

Kurdel

Member
Nov 7, 2017
12,157
That is from 2012. You can pull up shit front ANYONE's pst and find something awful. Let's grow up here. Judge him on this video? Sure. Something from 7 years ago? That's stupid childish shit

He was 29 seven years ago, why on earth would you give him a pass for that? Or imply his record is not fair game and "childish"?
 

Hailinel

Shamed a mod for a tag
Member
Oct 27, 2017
35,527
Was he not an adult 7 years ago? Why did he think that was appropriate to do?

We are allowed to discuss this. If he has learned from back then, good. Doesn't change the fact that its gross.
Seven years is still a long enough time for people to learn from mistakes they've made. Digging up anyone's bad mistakes from seven years ago to call them out for the person they are now is a sketchy move.

If there was a repeated chain of actions and behaviors over the past seven years that particular episode were a part of, that's one thing, but as an isolated moment, it doesn't necessarily reflect the present.
 

Megasoum

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,568
That is from 2012. You can pull up shit front ANYONE's pst and find something awful. Let's grow up here. Judge him on this video? Sure. Something from 7 years ago? That's stupid childish shit
I can safely say that I have never said anything like that in my life... No need to be some kind of saint or superhuman to never have been a shitbag...
 

Teamocil

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,133
I've literally never said that. I'm not a fan of pulling up stuff from YEARS ago in an attempt to prove a point. It doesn't prove anything other than the fact that you can use Google.

Judging him on recent stuff is 100% fair game. Something from 7 years ago is straight up wrong.
 

Kurdel

Member
Nov 7, 2017
12,157
I can safely say that I have never said anything like that in my life... No need to be some kind of saint or superhuman to never have been a shitbag...

"But he was a young and naive 29 year old, he didn't know better!" is a hilarious excuse

Judging him on recent stuff is 100% fair game. Something from 7 years ago is straight up wrong.

He said that on camera too, can't imagine how shit he must have been off camera.
 

Teamocil

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,133
I can safely say that I have never said anything like that in my life... No need to be some kind of saint or superhuman to never have been a shitbag...

Good for you. I can't relate. I've said some dumb shit in the past and have grown to be a better person from it. If someone were to reference something I said years ago to attack my character it's a bullshit unfair move to who I am today
 

Nairume

SaGa Sage
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,940
I've literally never said that. I'm not a fan of pulling up stuff from YEARS ago in an attempt to prove a point. It doesn't prove anything other than the fact that you can use Google.

Judging him on recent stuff is 100% fair game. Something from 7 years ago is straight up wrong.
What happened 7 years ago was more than him just saying something dumb. He said it over the very vocal protesting of the guest he was embarrassing. That kind of behavior doesn't just get handwaved away.
 

stupei

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,801
Good for you. I can't relate. I've said some dumb shit in the past and have grown to be a better person from it. If someone were to reference something I said years ago to attack my character it's a bullshit unfair move to who I am today

It's not, though.

Part of learning you were a fuck up is accepting that the shit you did was not okay and wanting to be a better person to actually be better, not so that everyone else can never acknowledge the shit you now know wasn't okay to do. That's not actually wanting to be better, it's wanting to be free of negative feedback or consequence.
 

Hey Please

Avenger
Oct 31, 2017
22,824
Not America
Was he not an adult 7 years ago? Why did he think that was appropriate to do?

We are allowed to discuss this.

Oh, he absolutely was an adult and he should have known much better. The question is whether his current conduct is informed by the beliefs he has held since then. As in has he changed as a person since the video was made? And if so for the better? Given what I have seen in general from KFG (I see their content from time to time) he has become a more respectable person since then. Which is why it irked me to see him fold pertaining to Andrea's take on Notch's tweets.

Then again, as mentioned in my earlier post, he is part of a corporate world with greater responsibility this time around and people ought treat some of what he says as empty platitudes.

You don't see a difference here? That video is fucking terrible. Greg has repeatedly told the story about how he learned to be "woke" about gay issues after being exposed to homosexuals in college. So he learned to treat people with respect in college......unless you can make a terrible google search request......in front of tons of people..... and the actress herself?

If you see my previous posts, you will know exactly where I come down on the overall current issue. As for Gregg's conduct in the video, it's absolutely cringeworthy, wrong, wrong, wrong and utterly humiliating to the actress and does absolute disservice to his profession. It takes a special kind of shamelessness to pull off what he did in public. There is no excusing it at all. I sincerely hope he apologized to all parties concerned.

Just to be clear, I was optimistically hoping, given his general conduct on KFG, that he has learned a thing or two over the last 7 years for the better.
 

Teamocil

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,133
"But he was a young and naive 29 year old, he didn't know better!" is a hilarious excuse
This is an unfair defense. How do you expect anyone to progress if you consistently bring up shit they did years ago? It's like your boss antagonizing you for a mistake you made years ago—it's not fair to you, and it doesn't reflect who you are now.
 

Hailinel

Shamed a mod for a tag
Member
Oct 27, 2017
35,527
I can safely say that I have never said anything like that in my life... No need to be some kind of saint or superhuman to never have been a shitbag...
Seven years ago, I was thirty-one. I can promise you that I've learned a lot since then, and there are certain things that I've stopped doing because I've learned.

Judging a person's present character based on who they were seven years ago without examining the time in between isn't a good look.
 

HockeyBird

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,591
If Greg was doing shitty stuff 7 years ago and is still doing shitty stuff now, then he hasn't grown in the past 7 years and one can infer that he unlikely to grow and mature from this.
 

Kurdel

Member
Nov 7, 2017
12,157
This is an unfair defense. How do you expect anyone to progress if you consistently bring up shit they did years ago? It's like your boss antagonizing you for a mistake you made years ago—it's not fair to you, and it doesn't reflect who you are now.

"a mistake" lol

Seven years ago, I was thirty-one. I can promise you that I've learned a lot since then, and there are certain things that I've stopped doing because I've learned.

Judging a person's present character based on who they were seven years ago without examining the time in between isn't a good look.

It shows an incredible lack of judgement on his part, I do hope he got better because even in 2012 standards that was trash tier behaviour.
 

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
50,044
I don't think there's an expiry date on awful behaviour, but people can change, so it's more worth looking for the pattern of behaviour to me. If they keep acting the same way that they did seven years ago then we can see that there's no change and that action is just one part of the pattern. I have basically no knowledge of Greg Miller, so just having seen that video, was that a one-off thing?
 

Deleted member 179

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,548
His general action around the different models and other women on his shows leads me to believe he doesn't act like that anymore.
 

usagi704

Member
Oct 27, 2017
224
The irony is that this thread is 90% people having a go and some podcasters who are essentially well meaning but failed to caveat everything with "BUT THESE PEOPLE ARE ASSHOLES HASHTAG CANCELLED".

It's s classic "internet angry person" play. The whole "fuck these people for not condemning things I don't like" nonsense of those who can't bear to acknowledge people think differently from them when it states them in the face.
Jedeye Sniv #CANCELLED
 

Lukar

Unshakable Resolve - Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 27, 2017
23,410
I see we're at the point where we dig up material from many years ago showing behavior that Greg has very clearly improved upon since. But since he made a mistake, he's awful for life and incapable of being a better person. That's just how it is now.
 

Teamocil

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,133
It's not, though.

Part of learning you were a fuck up is accepting that the shit you did was not okay and wanting to be a better person to actually be better, not so that everyone else can never acknowledge the shit you now know wasn't okay to do. That's not actually wanting to be better, it's wanting to be free of negative feedback or consequence.

You can acknowledge shit you did in the past (as Greg has done numerous times before) and how it was wrong AND not have people trying to attack your character for shit you did before. If you've recently fucked up, reference that and provide feedback on that, not shit from literal years ago
 

Nairume

SaGa Sage
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,940
I see we're at the point where we dig up material from many years ago showing behavior that Greg has very clearly improved upon since.
Has he though? Seems like part of the reason this thread even exists is because he hasn't learned his lesson about keeping good company with his cohosts. Is it really that much of a stretch that the grown man who did that before and hasn't grown in one big way wouldnt have grown in that regard too?
 

Luckydog

Attempting to circumvent a ban with an alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
636
USA
This is an unfair defense. How do you expect anyone to progress if you consistently bring up shit they did years ago? It's like your boss antagonizing you for a mistake you made years ago—it's not fair to you, and it doesn't reflect who you are now.
Every human can grow at any time. But there are a few issues here... he has repeatedly told the story about how he learned to be more respectful of people after gaining a wider range of experiences in college. He was BFFs for years with Colin and never said a word about him until it affected his revenue stream. He is almost 30 years old in that video, NOT a dumb kid. And he is in a PROFESSIONAL SETTING! Where most people are on their best behavior.
 

Hailinel

Shamed a mod for a tag
Member
Oct 27, 2017
35,527
"a mistake" lol



It shows an incredible lack of judgement on his part, I do hope he got better because even in 2012 standards that was trash tier behaviour.
Yes, but 2012 Greg isn't the person that was on that podcast yesterday. Suddenly we have people in this thread that want to rake him over the coals for shit he very well may have learned from a long time ago.

There's an online fascination with digging up ancient dirt on people to use as ammunition against those same people regardless of the relevance these days.
 

Teamocil

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,133
Every human can grow at any time. But there are a few issues here... he has repeatedly told the story about how he learned to be more respectful of people after gaining a wider range of experiences in college. He was BFFs for years with Colin and never said a word about him until it affected his revenue stream. He is almost 30 years old in that video, NOT a dumb kid. And he is in a PROFESSIONAL SETTING! Where most people are on their best behavior.
Oh believe me, I'm not condoning his behavior in that video AT ALL. It's not okay. But I'm not going to condone people bringing up shit from way back in people's past as an attack—that's unfair
 

Deleted member 4783

Oct 25, 2017
4,531
Saw this on Reddit

p1075nd13kv21.jpg
You mean GamingCircleJerk, the best sub ever!
 

stupei

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,801
You can acknowledge shit you did in the past (as Greg has done numerous times before) and how it was wrong AND not have people trying to attack your character for shit you did before. If you've recently fucked up, reference that and provide feedback on that, not shit from literal years ago

The thing is, if you realize you did bad things in the past you should want to change and be a better person, but the barometer for that isn't how others now feel about your past actions. If someone feels a certain way about things you now fully admit were wrong, if they trust or like you less knowing that, it's not really fair to be like, "no, only I get to decide how you can feel about my past mistakes."

People not being cool with what you were doesn't have to negate anyone's progress; it just means that individual doesn't want to be a part of it.
 

Nairume

SaGa Sage
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,940
Yes, but 2012 Greg isn't the person that was on that podcast yesterday. Suddenly we have people in this thread that want to rake him over the coals for shit he very well may have learned from a long time ago.

There's an online fascination with digging up ancient dirt on people to use as ammunition against those same people regardless of the relevance these days.
It matters when people try to use his past to try and say that he's a nice good guy who would never stand for shitty things.
 

Luckydog

Attempting to circumvent a ban with an alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
636
USA
Oh believe me, I'm not condoning his behavior in that video AT ALL. It's not okay. But I'm not going to condone people bringing up shit from way back in people's past as an attack—that's unfair
Ok but 2 years ago he was BFFs with Colin and never had a bad thing to say until he thought he would lose Patreon people. And now there is this incident. A huge chunk of this thread is people being upset at hand waving away bad behavior, yet this is what we are trying to do with Greg because he is loud and stupid and funny. I've said it before in this thread, I honestly do not think he is a bigot, but he has a pattern of shitty behavior that we shouldn't handwave away. Especially when he builds that good guy persona on stories about "growing in college"and learning to respect people.
 

Budi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,883
Finland
I don't think there's an expiry date on awful behaviour, but people can change, so it's more worth looking for the pattern of behaviour to me. If they keep acting the same way that they did seven years ago then we can see that there's no change and that action is just one part of the pattern. I have basically no knowledge of Greg Miller, so just having seen that video, was that a one-off thing?
Kindafunny had former adult entertainment actor Mia Khalifa as a quest, I think that could be something to look from how he behaves. I don't remember watching it myself, so can't comment. Just remember that she's been a guest.
 
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Hailinel

Shamed a mod for a tag
Member
Oct 27, 2017
35,527
It matters when people try to use his past to try and say that he's a nice good guy who would never stand for shitty things.
But would he stand for the shitty thing he did in 2012 today? Yes, that was garbage of him then, but again, there's a difference between "He's done this particular shitty thing in the past" and "He has engaged in a shitty pattern of behavior for the past seven years." There's a distinct difference between referencing an event as part of a larger behavioral pattern that remains relevant today, and dumpster diving for some past event to show he's not perfect, no matter how far back you have to reach. Did he apologize for what he did? Did he learn from it? Did his behavior change at all for the better?

Seven years isn't a blink of an eye. A lot can happen. Gamergate sparked in what, 2014? How many people looked in the mirror when that erupted, recognized they needed to change, and actually changed? Would you still bring up events from before then to demonstrate that a person that made strides to improve themselves is still a scumbag because they said or did something in 2012 that they now regret?
 

Dogenzaka

Alt Account
Banned
Apr 20, 2019
803
Kindafunny had former adult entertainment actor Mia Khalifa as a quest, I think that could be something to look from how he behaves. I don't remember watching it myself, so can't comment. Just remember that she's been a quest.
Am I weird for not understanding this? What does 'quest' mean in this context?
 

Budi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,883
Finland
Am I weird for not understanding this? What does 'quest' mean in this context?
No you're not weird, it's just a typo. Thanks for pointing it out, should had been guest! =P It's 5 AM so I should be sleeping.
Greg Miller encouraging viewers to google search his guest to see her naked isn't a "mistake".

Can you imagine anyone doing that at their media job, and keeping it?
I could. Not that it's a behaviour I would encourage, but definitely could imagine that. I've probably seen that too, or atleast many similar things. I've seen a lot of interviews that are straight up unnecessarily rude to the guest, without anyone losing their job. Though maybe it's more of a European thing.
 
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sabrina

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,174
newport beach, CA
Kindafunny had former adult entertainment actor Mia Khalifa as a quest, I think that could be something to look from how he behaves. I don't remember watching it myself, so can't comment. Just remember that she's been a guest.
Why would you insist on referring to her as that when she's famous for other things now, and has repeatedly asked people to stop referring to her as that?

They didn't get her on the show because Greg is some louse who wanted porn stars on his show. They got her on because she briefly had a job at Rooster Teeth, the media company that produces Kinda Funny, and KF frequently has guests from RT on their show.
 

thecowboypoet

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
2,012
"It's not fair to bring up Greg's past shitty behaviour, he's different now!" they say in a thread about Greg's recent shitty behaviour...
It's a video with 170000 views. It's hardly internet sleuthing some obscure video from Greg's youth.
 

Teamocil

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,133
The thing is, if you realize you did bad things in the past you should want to change and be a better person, but the barometer for that isn't how others now feel about your past actions. If someone feels a certain way about things you now fully admit were wrong, if they trust or like you less knowing that, it's not really fair to be like, "no, only I get to decide how you can feel about my past mistakes."

People not being cool with what you were doesn't have to negate anyone's progress; it just means that individual doesn't want to be a part of it.
That's a fair and valid point—thanks for bringing that up.
 

Budi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,883
Finland
Why would you insist on referring to her as that when she's famous for other things now, and has repeatedly asked people to stop referring to her as that?

They didn't get her on the show because Greg is some louse who wanted porn stars on his show. They got her on because she briefly had a job at Rooster Teeth, the media company that produces Kinda Funny, and KF frequently has guests from RT on their show.
Yeah I know she has. I don't insist referring to her as a former adult entertainer I don't think that should define her (not that it's anything shameful either), but I thought it was meaningful in this context. Because usually people who have worked on the field get treated even worse, like there wouldn't be the same limits that shouldn't be crossed because they've posed nude or had sex on camera. Hence her appearance especially would be a good "test" to see how Greg handles himself and treats the guest. It's also why I mentioned her specifically, even though I'm sure there's been plenty of other women in the show too.
 

sabrina

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,174
newport beach, CA
Yeah I know she has. I don't insist referring to her as a former adult entertainer I don't think that should define her (not that it's anything shameful either), but I thought it was meaningful in this context. Because usually people who have worked on the field get treated even worse, like there wouldn't be the same limits that shouldn't be crossed because they've posed nude or had sex on camera. Hence her appearance especially would be a good "test" to see how Greg handles himself and treats the guest. It's also why I mentioned her specifically, even though I'm sure there's been plenty of other women in the show too.
I understand now. Thank you for clarifying!
 

X-Peaceman-X

Banned
Nov 11, 2017
303
The problem is when left as basic and blunt as this is puts equal responsibility on the side of victims to be 'better' to bigots.

Talking about bigots, racists and transphobic people before pushing the "better to each other" message is simply flawed. You're taking a situation where one side is projecting abuse and intolerance at the other, standing between the two and saying "why can't we get along".

We understand you don't ask a bullied child to be nicer to their bully and hope it goes away, I'm not sure why this is more complicated when applied to adults, racists and bigots. The onus on improvement and betterment is on the abuser.

You may be trying to say 'why can't we all just get along' meaning humans as a whole but it falls flat in the face of the above and is a somewhat redundant and frankly childlike statement to make. When used directly in relation to someone using hateful and hurtful language to demean and suppress others and entire races it's entirely misplaced. "Why can't we all get along?" - ask the people that persist in ensuring we can't. Not pose the question of how we can 'be better' to victims and people who aren't bigots.
I see what your saying but I dont necessarily agree. You absolutely can be better to each other in context of victim being better to a bigot or bully or any situation. The saying kill them.with kindness actually works a lot of the time. Showing them compassion even if they are an asshole shows that you aren't likewise an asshole. Stand up to bigotry 100% but dont jeopardize your character by doing so. Only get nasty with it when its escalated to a point where that's unavoidable.
 

Gundam

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
12,801
I see what your saying but I dont necessarily agree. You absolutely can be better to each other in context of victim being better to a bigot or bully or any situation. The saying kill them.with kindness actually works a lot of the time. Showing them compassion even if they are an asshole shows that you aren't likewise an asshole. Stand up to bigotry 100% but dont jeopardize your character by doing so. Only get nasty with it when its escalated to a point where that's unavoidable.

So in other words, stand up to bigotry, but only in ways that will appease bigots.

Nah. Fuck that tone policing bullshit.
 

labx

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,326
Medellín, Colombia
Greg has his own history of troublesome behaviour but Colin was just such a shitstorm for so long that I think Greg went unnoticed.


A dork a douche, s tool an a creep? Oh boy. Gaming Circle Jerk at its finest. And people trying to normalize and defend this dude because he isn't capable of getting an stand on something objectively wrong. He said he has grown, but, in a convenient way it seems.
 

Nerokis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,567
"Guys stop being mean to Greg, if you look at his past you'll see what kind of person he is!"

"No wait stop looking at his past!"

Bringing up past instances of being shitty without regard to the passage of time and without establishing concrete relevance can frequently be counterproductive. Like, obviously we can all judge it was an incredibly inappropriate thing to do, but how do we apply that here? Does it represent a pattern? Does it somehow give useful context for understanding something like this more recent case? Would working toward holding him accountable for that action be useful to the person he made uncomfortable, pressure him to change, or whatever else?

Without that kind of framework for maneuvering around the past, sometimes it just isn't constructive to go there. "Hey, here's some shitty things x has done, have at it!" isn't the most productive practice whether it implicates Greg Miller or James Gunn.

Now, that doesn't mean it's invalid to say you aren't a fan of Greg's because of that instance of inappropriate behavior. But this thread is about a specific thing, and it seems useful to push back against the urge to turn it into an excuse to criticize him (or whoever else) in a general fashion for behavior spanning almost a decade.
 

Budi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,883
Finland
I understand now. Thank you for clarifying!
No problem, I did take a pause while writing the post and if I should explicitly mention it or not. Because I've heard/read her getting pretty angry to an interviewer for introducing her through her former profession. It was also something I went to check from Youtube if Greg did it, but didn't seem like he did. No idea if they brought it up in the podcast later though. Apparently not, is what I gather from your earlier post.
 

NoKisum

Member
Nov 11, 2017
4,913
DMV Area, USA
I see we're at the point where we dig up material from many years ago showing behavior that Greg has very clearly improved upon since. But since he made a mistake, he's awful for life and incapable of being a better person. That's just how it is now.
Character development is for fiction. Either you're a good person and not say shitty things, or the opposite.
 

@dedmunk

Banned
Oct 11, 2018
3,088
I'm guilty of saying stupid shit when I was younger and less well educated on the issues of today. I don't think Greg is a bad guy at all. I think the discussion on the gamescast video was handled terribly and that people shouldn't really discuss these things on a show with a wide reaching audience if they are not prepared to do the hard work and research beforehand.
 
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