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Greg Miller and Andrea Rene handwave Notch and PewDiePie racist, transphobic and anti-semitic behaviour (UP: GM and AR respond; see threadmarks)
- Thread starter LebGuns
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Does anyone here really expect Greg, after reading a thread calling him a scumbag and asshole, to suddenly think that he'll listen more to era ? He will probably instead be welcomed and be more friendly with the right.
What part of that is an improvement exactly?
When you have the chance for a dialogue with someone who made a mistake, you shouldn't be verbally berating them if you want them to learn.
Of course I can't blame any individual poster here, but the fact that staff here didn't step in and try to calm people down is a huge disappointment personally. Do they really feel that they followed their own rules here?
What part of that is an improvement exactly?
When you have the chance for a dialogue with someone who made a mistake, you shouldn't be verbally berating them if you want them to learn.
Of course I can't blame any individual poster here, but the fact that staff here didn't step in and try to calm people down is a huge disappointment personally. Do they really feel that they followed their own rules here?
"Context." Just straight up pathetic denial. Straight up ridiculous. PDP might be loud an annoying and an asshole but he's not a dumb guy in the slightest. It goes without saying, He knows, he knows alright.
Fuck me what an embarrassing excuse.
.so will you criticize the middle of the road stance and make it a teaching moment?
Or are you the white girl in the middle with your arms folded and you're better than all of this?
Criticizing the thread is one thing, but not even adding your opinion to the matter at hand and just leaving it at that makes your post just as pointless as the other noise and extreme takes in here.
Good people don't turn bad because other supposedly good people turn on them. They simply turn their attention to other good people or make an effort to address the complaints of the people who have an issue with them. Greg tried that here somewhat. If this makes him lean to the right, he was always a piece of shit.
Yeah and your still wrong and continue not to know what your talking about
*rolleyes
If all you need to become a nazi is hearing some truthbombs and a couple of insults you were probably a nazi already.
Are we seriously calling Greg a Nazi now?
This is pathetic.
EDIT: I realize I misinterpreted the post, and I apologize for it.
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If a bunch of people on my side started piling on me telling me I was doing something harmful, I would take a breath and look at what I had done. There is a very high chance that, even if many of the people telling me off were taking it a bit far, that at the core there was something I needed to address fast.
That's where we are right now.
People are harmed by the shit Notch and PDP peddle and support, to frightening degrees. They are hurt by the lack of commitment here, not just because its another ally saying "I support you" and then idling while someone they know hand waves hate, but because the lack of outright condemnation actively perpetuates the idea that certain levels of bigotry are acceptable.
The wishy washy "be good to each other" is ambiguous "both sides" in its effect, it WILL embolden the bigots and those in the center viewing the left as crazy SJWs, much like you're doing now. And I don't say that last remark in a hostile way, but you need to understand that REAL LASTING HARM is done to people when we don't take a 100% stand against hate, and people are sick and fucking tired of it. Some people have spent their entire existence being drowned in bigotry, and their anger and disappointment is righteous.
Bigotry and hate NEEDS to be outright condemned EVERY time it raises its shrieking head.
No we are not. But you are free to keep misreading everything as you've been doing since the beginning.
Edit: actually, scratch that. You 're not misreading, you're just being dishonest in your reply. I don't believe you truly read my post that way.
You're just coming in to ignorantly take things out of context while implying others are pathetic.
That poster didn't call him a nazi. Maybe read the comments before coming in with your disapproval. It's like you were literally waiting to see the word nazi pop up.
No, the original post was arguing that we need to tone police and be nicer to Greg otherwise he lurches to the right. saenima is saying if Greg does become radicalised and becomes a Nazi, harsh truthbombs or insults aren't the cause, he already had some of that in him.
It's just laughable to me that someone would even connect "Greg Miller" and "Nazi" together even in that way.
You really do need to work on your reading comprehension. This shit is dangerous.
Man how hard is it to just denounce folks like PDP and Notch and just call them out for the scumbags they are. The answer to "Your thoughts on PDP or Notch?" should always be "They're shit". Simple. It's frustrating to see folks try to have some debate over this just for the sake of discussion when there really isn't anything to discuss. It's not rocket science. There mountains of evidence that shows how shit they are, ergo there isn't anything to discuss.
So the big controversy was Notch didn't get invited to the Minecraft anniversary? He didn't get invited because he's a jackass. That's why. Look at his twitter and all the garbage he's spewed on there. He is SHIT. End of discussion. I'm just so tired of seeing arguments for just the sake of it. "Controversy" my ass.
I've always liked your content Greg, and I still will, but you're above this crap man.
So the big controversy was Notch didn't get invited to the Minecraft anniversary? He didn't get invited because he's a jackass. That's why. Look at his twitter and all the garbage he's spewed on there. He is SHIT. End of discussion. I'm just so tired of seeing arguments for just the sake of it. "Controversy" my ass.
I've always liked your content Greg, and I still will, but you're above this crap man.
In what way?
It was just explained to you that it didn't mean what you suggested it didn't, clearly, and yet you're doubling down?
Amazing.
You can grandstand about "good" and "bad" people all you want, the reality is that a large influencer turning to the right after being spurned here is a failure for everyone involved.
I'm talking about basic psychology here. You don't teach people by insulting them. And of course they will feel alienated by it. How much would you learn if your teachers/parents verbally berated you for every mistake you made and called you stupid? Perhaps you would feel slighted and look for advise somewhere else?
The problem is that by trying to condemn everything you're condeming nothing. Notch and PDP are dumb fucking nazis yes, but now you're condeming KF for not speaking out hard enough. Surely you can see that these are not remotely the same level of bad? What happens next? Will you condemn every single media outlet for not calling out KF? You are embarking on a slippery slope where you're risking alienating every single potential ally.
They didn't say that. You said that. This pearl clutching is what is pathetic.
To be fair what he said still doesn't make sense. He implied that anyone on the right is a nazi which is complete rubbish.
If Greg becomes a Nazi, I'm not gonna claim ownership of that. That's a personal choice.
That's fair.
This is a yikes take for me, m'dude
They weren't implying Greg was a Nazi, but yes if someone does something bad and gets criticized for it, and their response is to double down and hang out with worse people then....yeah
Are you implying that Nazis are funny to you?
Twisting posts is fun.
Ignore my reply to you if you wish, but it breaks down why your responses here have no weight.
Sorry, but the critiscm and anger are fully justified.
Quit this mealy mouth shit.
You just ignored everything said to you and doubled down on your though process.
Imagine this, if the slightest wind of criticism sends you running to the right wing then fuck off. You were never going to stand up for the cause. You were never going to stand up for the downtrodden.
People can educate themselves if you actually give a fuck. You have to actually give a fuck to go research issues and inform yourself on things instead of expecting others to do it for you.
That's the only great filter necessary for the supporters required. STRONG supporters mind you, not limpdick tissue paper you describe.
If what you say is 100% true, I should expect you to go vote Red and start your playlist of Shapiro vids now, since Im giving you shit and all.
Now why are you bringing the word nazi into this? I never said that. I said right, AKA right-wing.
Pretty sure I didn't ignore your reply but okay.
they're fucking trash
doing everything they can to avoid calling them white supremacists
oh and "people we respect... boogie"
If being criticized on a forum was the push that he need to embrace the alt=right, then homeboy wasn't far off in the end.
lmao, it's all the same with people like you. "B-b-but now you've been so mean to him he has no choice to go to the alt-right!" Get the hell out of here.
Many associate right-wing with Nazi now. It was a mistake on my part. I know plenty of people on the right who aren't Nazis. But the point still stands - if you're a liberal and a small group of other liberals taking issue with you is enough of an impetus to switch parties, were you ever really a liberal?
Read the page before one before the gif I posted and tell me that wasn't an accurate the description of what was going on. Tell me that with a straight face.
I've made many threads criticizing the gaming communities bullshit and often times met with defensiveness and or "well sports fans do it to, why are you criticizing us".
I don't feel that strongly about this, to ape what you guys are doing would be disingenuous on my part.
My opinion on this is in the post where I stated would this thread could've been.
Referring to what is literally in the thread is not exaggerating. Did I make anything up? Did I refer to anything that's not been done here by many poster? No.
Don't wave off a completely fair criticism of the thread because you see it as a distraction.
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But isn't this exactly the point I'm trying to make? Whether he practices journalism or not now, he IS a trained journalist. He SHOULD know better...he SHOULD have taken control of the situation better, he SHOULD have been clearer. He is well into adulthood, he's worked for almost half his life in media and on camera, he is a trained journalist (whether he uses it or not), and has made it a point REPEATEDLY to say how he grew up out of touch but learned to respect people in college due to his college experience. The people in here just giving him a pass are wrong in my opinion. He had a lot of tools and experience to handle this better and he chose not to.
You didn't reply to it, and it explains why your posts don't carry the weight you think they do.
And please don't take that as an attack... if we do not 100% stand against hate we allow it to continue to harm.
If we use ambiguous language to not fully commit like "be good to each other", it can be taken by those opposing as validation.
People are hurt by hate, every day, horrifically, the anger is coming from a righteous place.
If you are truly an ally, if you really care, you would take harsh criticism as something that you need to pay attention to.
If this pushes a person to the right... they were never, ever an ally to begin with.
This. People who meet self reflection with indignation and resentment aren't worth pandering to.
I think in 1000+ post thread, I'm going to see various opinions, which I have. Behaving as if the bulk of the thread is outraged and being that nasty is bullshit and absolutely not relevant, especially when that's all you've really had to offer to the discussion to begin with.
"What you guys are doing"
Hey, check my post history and see what I've posted in the thread before you assume I'm part of the little group you have a problem with.
Your little attitude adds nothing currently. You making threads has 0 to do with this one. It's a new thread and new topic, people are only going to go by what you post atm.
You may not be "performative woke" but your "holier than thou" is just as much bullshit Bobo.
Spoilers: nobody is far from the right or left. People are malleable. The Nazis managed to get 40% of the population with them and not every single one those was a rabid anti-semite who wanted to kill all jews. These were regular human beings manipulated into hatred, it can and will happen again. If we could've prevented some of those 40% from reaching the stage where they voted for nazis, would that not still be a good thing?
Try reading my post next time, thanks.
Ah, as you can see it didn't quote me correctly, but you're quite right that's fully on me for not reading the full thing. Apologies. I'll respond to that post now.Spoilers: nobody is far from the right or left. People are malleable. The Nazis managed to get 40% of the population with them and not every single one those was a rabid anti-semite who wanted to kill all jews. These were regular human beings manipulated into hatred, it can and will happen again. If we could've prevented some of those 40% from reaching the stage where they voted for nazis, would that not still be a good thing?
Try reading my post next time, thanks.
The discussion about this being news or not is interesting. I hardly think the few journos that would report this ever watch/listen to KF, which would make them aware of the situation only if brought to their attention, but probably ERA is the only place where this blowing up, unfortunately.
It's purely a personality based show/group with no compromise towards research or taking a stance over anything.
Not only that, but when you fail to notice you are enabling harmful shit towards the existence of people who listen to you, yeah, some of them are going to react very passionately. There is no obligation to always be calm and rational when calling out shit.
Not to say your point isn't valid (because it obviously is) or to badmouth KF content at all (it's a valid choice), but neither of their gaming podcasts practice anything close to journalism. They spit out news at lightning speed and throw a couple of uninformed personal takes if they if feel like it.
It's purely a personality based show/group with no compromise towards research or taking a stance over anything.
The thread is not a singular entity. I am sure his patreons also offer conflicting feedback and he probably is able to parse them fine.
Not only that, but when you fail to notice you are enabling harmful shit towards the existence of people who listen to you, yeah, some of them are going to react very passionately. There is no obligation to always be calm and rational when calling out shit.
"The problem is that by trying to condemn everything you're condeming nothing. "
This is a fallacy.
My post reasoned the reply to this already:
If we do not 100% stand against hate, hate is allowed to fester. That's a fact.
Using language like "be cool to each other" in place of "bigotry can NOT be tolerated", is noncommittal to the point it gives validation to those peddling the hate. It frames it as "both sides need to come together", when it should be "NO MORE HATE!", full-stop.
This kind of lack of commitment helps normalize hate, it allows those peddling hate to feel justified because their "opinions should be heard equally", and that the onus is also on those of us standing against hate to "be reasonable with bigots".
Surely YOU can understand how, while this isn't as bad as being an outright nazi, it ENABLES outright nazis and the structures supporting them when we should be stand up and saying "NO MORE, NOT EVEN ONE MORE INCH".
This absolutely needs to be said to people who profess to be allies who don't fully commit. They're part of the harm in the ways listed above.
If this kind of critique pushes a person to the right, they were never an ally to begin with.
Spoilers: nobody is far from the right or left. People are malleable. The Nazis managed to get 40% of the population with them and not every single one those was a rabid anti-semite who wanted to kill all jews. These were regular human beings manipulated into hatred, it can and will happen again. If we could've prevented some of those 40% from reaching the stage where they voted for nazis, would that not still be a good thing?
Try reading my post next time, thanks.
Repeat after me: It's not my job to educate grown-ass people about why it's PROBABLY not idea to:
- Use racial slurs
- Wear blackface
- Use transphobic/homophobic slurs
- Enable anyone who does the above
I'm sorry, this might be getting a bit heated here. Apologies for the snarky replies. We all understand the importance of stopping hate. I only believe that people are never inherently good or bad, it's what happens to them in society that decides how someone acts. Some of those people, without intervention or teaching, will turn to bigotry. If we can turn someone away from that path, it's still a good thing and something I think is worth doing.
I think most of us at one point or another have been somewhere on this. If left unchecked, any one of us could have gone higher. But somehow somewhere we managed to steer away. Some people might still be on this pyramid, but don't write them off simply because they might eventually reach the highest point, we can and have the ability to help people get away from it. That's why I think it's extremely important to have a dialogue with people who might still be unsure.
I think most of us at one point or another have been somewhere on this. If left unchecked, any one of us could have gone higher. But somehow somewhere we managed to steer away. Some people might still be on this pyramid, but don't write them off simply because they might eventually reach the highest point, we can and have the ability to help people get away from it. That's why I think it's extremely important to have a dialogue with people who might still be unsure.
Saying Notch's tweets are being taken out of context is not being unsure, come the fuck on.
I fucked up in my reading of your post, so I'm sorry for that. There was no dishonesty on my part, but rather, a large misunderstanding of what you were saying. Doesn't matter how or why I messed up though; I fucked up, period, so apologies.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Totally fair. I apologize.
It was less concern trolling, and more me being a dumbass who had trouble understanding the post. I fucked up, but there was no ill-intent behind my response, I promise that.
Funnily enough, you just described my childhood. Yeah it was shit. Maybe i was just lucky and had a good head on my shoulders, but not once did i considered that being a bigot was an acceptable way to face the world because of it. And i was surrounded by it, it would've been easier to just go with the flow.
The threats of "accept bullshit or they might turn into real bigots" is way beyond tired. Folks need to stop using that as a bludgeon. Like if "Damn dude you kinda of fucked up" pushes you in the arms of David Duke, dog you were already there to begin with.
I'm sorry, this might be getting a bit heated here. Apologies for the snarky replies. We all understand the importance of stopping hate. I only believe that people are never inherently good or bad, it's what happens to them in society that decides how someone acts. Some of those people, without intervention or teaching, will turn to bigotry. If we can turn someone away from that path, it's still a good thing and something I think is worth doing.
I think most of us at one point or another have been somewhere on this. If left unchecked, any one of us could have gone higher. But somehow somewhere we managed to steer away. Some people might still be on this pyramid, but don't write them off simply because they might eventually reach the highest point, we can and have the ability to help people get away from it. That's why I think it's extremely important to have a dialogue with people who might still be unsure.
Again, this is for those who are suited for it. Not everyone is suited for going out and trying to turn people down the right path and many probably have other immediate concerns. It's a great goal if it works for you and society does shape people, yes. But it's extremely difficult to change a lifetime of learned behaviors and attitudes, especially when these attitudes are ingrained within the foundation of American culture. No one should have to be apologetic because they're not interested in dedicating their lives to such a pie in the sky endeavor.
Its one thing to try to straighten out a pal or family member, but I remember speaking to an incel once about his beliefs and while I have schooling in psychology and sociology, I'm not a psychologist and it was clearly beyond my means. I don't have the time nor the training to work through whatever he had going on and I doubt most of us do. In either case, I doubt Greg is a dude on the ledge of joining the alt-right if some random guy calls him a scumbag.
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