So it doesn't count and isn't worth noting if it's less than 51%. Got it.
Fine, I'll sit out with my little attitude Dad.
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Greg Miller and Andrea Rene handwave Notch and PewDiePie racist, transphobic and anti-semitic behaviour (UP: GM and AR respond; see threadmarks)
- Thread starter LebGuns
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Is this what the kids call fake outrage?
You people need to start reading better. Point to where in my post do i talk about 'the right'.
If you are truly on the side of the people you have aggrieved, then them telling you that you're wrong wouldn't push you away, it would tell you that what you said is wrong.
Are you this forum's ombudsman or something? Because you are not really doing anything besides saying the thread is wrong instead of engaging with posters you think are wrong. Almost thread whining, one could say.
No worries. We all get heated or sometimes misread things.
Probably why I used terms like "hyperbolic" and "exaggerating" to describe what I meant. Context clearly isn't your strong suit, so I'll leave you to your implications about how everyone is being awful because a random poster called Greg a scumbag. I'm sure saying it a couple of more times will make it true.
This is what I can't understand....it's not that hard, there's no nuance or conversation to be had here.
They are fucking scumbags...period, end of story.
This is my problem. To make this point you're ignoring 80% of what that poster said. It's not a matter of "be nice to him when you tell him he's wrong or else he'll go to the other side". But this just went criticism of the brand to something personal and ugly and downright insulting on a level that was not needed.
For some reason it doesn't matter how Era delivers the message, but as long as he gets the message that he's wrong, that's fine.
That's just weird to me.
I'd apologize to those hurt, but after what's been said, buddy owes nothing to this community as far as I'm concerned.
And my argument was that I never exaggerated anything.
And you're now downplaying the thing I took issue with. Because why would I be here if one person was called a scumbag on a forum.
It's what I get for trying to talk on a forum while also multitasking on other things. Didn't give people's posts enough thought before responding to them, and thus showed my ass.
Greg Miller is not going to turn to the right because one website has a problem with him. The most he will do is not mention this site anymore. That's it. He can always go to Reddit for his news stories.
I actually think I responded to the wrong post, or I just wasn't paying any attention to what I responded to. Either way, I agree with this.
I don't know what I expected but this was somehow even worse.
With Greg not scheduled to be on KFGD today or tomorrow, I doubt we'll hear any more from him about this until next week. He could post on here again, but I feel like at this point, he may just do it on the show instead.
As for Andrea, I would be really surprised if she owned up to her mistakes publicly, but I hope she does. If they have a show together next week, I really hope Greg makes sure that this is brought up even if she doesn't agree with him on it.
We should know what next week's KFGD host lineup is tomorrow, so I guess we'll see.
As for Andrea, I would be really surprised if she owned up to her mistakes publicly, but I hope she does. If they have a show together next week, I really hope Greg makes sure that this is brought up even if she doesn't agree with him on it.
We should know what next week's KFGD host lineup is tomorrow, so I guess we'll see.
Biggest problem I saw was with Andrea. She complained about PewDiePie being "crucified" every time he makes a mistake. As if saying racist things, showing racist/anti-Semitic images, linking to white supremecist websites, and having his self created meme linked to vandalism and mass murder are just youthful indiscretions.
Her responses over Notch were odd too, somehow flipping it into being anti-Microsoft. Notch is essentially an unabashed white supremecist at this point.
Greg I thought was mostly ok, but he's so non-confrontational about everything talking to her, he got roped into the same wishy washy bullshit. And he sarcastic "pick a side, left or right" was a bit messed up. I know he was trying to make a somewhat lighthearted joke, but it was just dumb. When talking about these two in particular, you really should pick a side!
There's no reasonable middle ground to stand on here where you aren't minimizing something awful. Trying to make any kind of "both sides" comment/joke, or deflection (intentional or otherwise) to another party just undermines anything else said about these people being shit.
What was the point of telling people to tag him if he wasn't going to respond here?
How is that bad? He brought something up she did. Yeah, it might be immature on the grand scheme of things but you are comparing racism to this is terrible. If you show me something from his past that is actually racist, I'll agree but this is a huge reach
Self-made content creators who become platform-holders and personalities are an interesting phenomenon. They rise in popularity and influence because people like their content. This content is typically little more than their opinions or views on enthusiast subjects. This isn't to reduce the significance of succeeding in this venue, but I think it's fair to say a lot of enthusiast personalities become famous just for being themselves. People watch and listen to this content because they find their perspective on shared interests meaningful.
The problem with being a personality who became famous for their opinions it that now your opinions about everything carry more weight. Despite not being an authority, you become one for thousands of people. A casual conversation between you and your friends becomes published and broadcasted material that has actual stakes and consequences. When you put this content out there, you are sharing it with potentially thousands of people who value your point of view. Now you are accountable for everything you say and everything you believe. If you don't hold yourself accountable, your audience and critics will.
Distributed media, however casual or off-the-cuff it was in recording, is now a publication that carries a message. Some people are going to hear people they respect downplaying hate speech and the risk of incitement as everyday internet drama and are going to think, wow, they're right, I don't know what the big deal is. Others will probably be very disappointed that somebody they trusted would spread this idea with such little discretion. Both of these responses should be taken seriously.
The entire tone of this recorded conversation is upsetting. I find the disaffected minimizing of the issues really off-putting and I think there are clear misplaced priorities at play. If this was about video games this wouldn't matter. But it's not just about video games. It's about rhetoric that actively hurts people and makes their lives worse. That sucks.
I think there's a lot of irony in having a conversation about Microsoft denouncing Notch and framing them as opportunistic and disingenuous while taking such a weak position yourself. Especially when the conversation began without a strong understanding of what Notch has said, or what Microsoft said, or how people feel about it. This wasn't a conversation about "Minecraft Drama" — this was a reaction to people's reactions. This is really shallow conversation starter to have and feels really dismissive to all the people affected by comment people like Notch have made. This isn't the kind of content I expect from Kinda Funny.
I don't think you should publish a point of view about something you weren't prepared to speak about. I think the lesson here is not to treat issues that threaten people's humanity like weekly curiosities, especially if you have a platform with thousands of people who trust you.
I think there is a misunderstanding some onlookers have when something like this happens. There is this automatic assumption that people want to "cancel" the offender. They act like everybody upset is out for blood. But I really, really do not think most people feel this way. When people feel let down by something like this, they don't want the offenders to disappear — they want them to be better. It is always preferable to see somebody improve their position on the offending issue than it is to hope they go away forever.
I think the folks at Kinda Funny try to be better than other self-made personalities in our industry and I believe they have a vested interest in addressing this problem with clarity and sincerity. I hope they will.
The problem with being a personality who became famous for their opinions it that now your opinions about everything carry more weight. Despite not being an authority, you become one for thousands of people. A casual conversation between you and your friends becomes published and broadcasted material that has actual stakes and consequences. When you put this content out there, you are sharing it with potentially thousands of people who value your point of view. Now you are accountable for everything you say and everything you believe. If you don't hold yourself accountable, your audience and critics will.
Distributed media, however casual or off-the-cuff it was in recording, is now a publication that carries a message. Some people are going to hear people they respect downplaying hate speech and the risk of incitement as everyday internet drama and are going to think, wow, they're right, I don't know what the big deal is. Others will probably be very disappointed that somebody they trusted would spread this idea with such little discretion. Both of these responses should be taken seriously.
The entire tone of this recorded conversation is upsetting. I find the disaffected minimizing of the issues really off-putting and I think there are clear misplaced priorities at play. If this was about video games this wouldn't matter. But it's not just about video games. It's about rhetoric that actively hurts people and makes their lives worse. That sucks.
I think there's a lot of irony in having a conversation about Microsoft denouncing Notch and framing them as opportunistic and disingenuous while taking such a weak position yourself. Especially when the conversation began without a strong understanding of what Notch has said, or what Microsoft said, or how people feel about it. This wasn't a conversation about "Minecraft Drama" — this was a reaction to people's reactions. This is really shallow conversation starter to have and feels really dismissive to all the people affected by comment people like Notch have made. This isn't the kind of content I expect from Kinda Funny.
I don't think you should publish a point of view about something you weren't prepared to speak about. I think the lesson here is not to treat issues that threaten people's humanity like weekly curiosities, especially if you have a platform with thousands of people who trust you.
I think there is a misunderstanding some onlookers have when something like this happens. There is this automatic assumption that people want to "cancel" the offender. They act like everybody upset is out for blood. But I really, really do not think most people feel this way. When people feel let down by something like this, they don't want the offenders to disappear — they want them to be better. It is always preferable to see somebody improve their position on the offending issue than it is to hope they go away forever.
I think the folks at Kinda Funny try to be better than other self-made personalities in our industry and I believe they have a vested interest in addressing this problem with clarity and sincerity. I hope they will.
True. The bit about KFGD was just an assumption on my part based on how big the situation has become and how Greg hasn't said anything since then. If he were to address it on the show rather than on here, he'd probably at least take the posts he was tagged in and address the things they were talking about. He could do that here as well though obviously, so I dunno.
I asked him on Twitter if he plans to address the situation again soon. Not sure if he'll respond, but hopefully he does.
TIL "Hey everybody, let me be really smug while telling you all to look at pictures of a woman's naked body while she asks me to not do it also use that as way of prepping my channel up" is not bad.
That is a fucking fantastic, measured and nuanced response. Thank you. I hope you can add it to the first post or something, because I feel Greg should read this.
This message is what we as a community should send, not "I always knew he was terrible".
I don't think it's a disingenuous or particularly weak position-- they just support PDP and Notch.
I didn't get that impression myself and I truly hope this is not the case.
If you think a great number of the people in this thread are posting angry takes not because they actually feel strongly about this issue, but to appear woke in a performative fashion, that's a problem.
If you can't parse the members that go overboard with their outrage vs those that are making earnest critiques of Greg & co, then maybe don't lump the rest of Era in with bad apples when you levy your metacriticism.
Nuance goes a long way in these convos, but none of us should spare a minute of our time to hear how nuanced the Nazis or their sympathizers feel. Bigotry in all its forms should be condemned outright, out of hand. People that won't condemn bigotry deserve to be criticized. Maybe calling them Nazis is too much, and maybe it devalues the word for identifying "actual" neonazis, but they are at least Nazi sympathizers or ignorant of the story they featured on their show. Either way, criticism is fair game here.
This needs to be in the OP or Thhreadmarked.
The bit about people assuming this is about cancel culture is spot on. I don't think I saw anyone lobbying for that, but I did see a lot of posts of people saying things similar to "Oh great, now they are out for Greg Miller's head of all people!".
I think there's a difference between the usual "I don't want to talk about it" or even "it was bad and people should get along" without really diving into the details and "this is a conspiracy to silence a wacky asshole".
This is what effort and nuance looks like. This something people can learn from, that I've definitely learned from, that is critical of KF.
Define support.
Great post
Basically the point of this thread is if you're not going to be informed, take a hard stance against bigotry and racism, then stick to the video game commentary.
Coming weak on such topics downplay their severity and that's damaging to an audience that views you as an authority
That you're using incorrectly which is why I want your definition of it.
I'm really curious if they bring this topic up on their show or not. I can't imagine a world where Andrea Rene admits she was wrong. Miller might, and I hope he does.
You should probably reflect why it is in a thread about defending and handwaving two nazis that your contribution in total has been on thread whinning and defending greg and co while making wildly inaccurate statements about the content of this thread. Because its not a good look for you.
I don't think anyone here has claimed that this is "performative". I totally understand why people are angry. But displaying all your anger isn't always the most constructive thing to do. Especially if you can still reach out to the person.
You are 100% absolutely correct! KF definitely deserves some shit and criticism for this, but it needs to be a measured response.
If we use the same attacks on ignorant/right-wing leaning people as we do on nazis, then our callouts effectively lose all meaning.
We don't have to lump them in with nazis yet, it can still be changed.
Its a bunch of people on a forum with varying personalities. They're going to respond the way they want to respond and it's clear that most people haven't lumped them in with nazis. If someone of greg's experience in influencing can't parse out the good advice from the bad, then that's not a failure on any specific person or the forum in general.
Lemme entertain you then:
Person X says "I am being silenced by jews" and "If you do not support an Heterossexual Pride Day should be shot"
Person Y says "X statements are being taken out of context" and does not elaborate further.
Person Z says the n-word multiple times.
Person Y says that's ok because person Z, being from Sweden, is not aware of the meaning of the word. Even though that is easily proven false, as done multiple times in this thread. And also ignores how long Z is not living on Sweden.
Person Y is normalizing and legitimizing X's statements.
That's support. Indirect, maybe, but still support.
Person Y is also excusing Z's behavior with misinformation.
That is blatant support.
I never defended Greg or Andrea. Unless saying they're not Nazis counts. Then that'll be the first time I defended them here. Edit- I read your post wrong, but that first sentence still stands.
My statements about the thread reflected the content in the thread. You just chose not to focus on it, but to say it's not there or reduce it to "just a few instances" is an outright lie. I never made up or exaggerated anything I criticized.
I had nothing new to add that wasn't already said better. Like I said, piling on would've been disingenuous of me.
Who is calling them nazis and if people arent calling them that why are you feeling the need to say they aren't unless youre trying to recontextualize whats happening in here IE blowing up how frequent the bad posts actually are.
I mean do we need to comb through the thread and get a ratio for you to stop this idea that the majority of thread has fallen into the context youre trying to paint it as? Because I will and I'm almost positive it wont even make up 1/4 of the posts in here.
I made an edit to my post stating that I read part of your wrong. My bad for that part.
Dang, Bobo Dakes , you really put me in your ignore list after I said you maybe were thread whining or you're just cherry picking posts to reply that much so you don't have to actually elaborate on how bad their stances are can just call out people's tones instead?
Maybe they're still doing the math on your post.
There was a lot of math.
If I'm thread whining, then this is just a derail, and practically picking a fight,because what is one thing you said that the poster I'm responding didn't say better? If you want response, read what was said to the other poster.
For many, the issue is rarely the behavior being criticized, but the criticism itself. It's a poor outlook.
The thing is, it's not an either or thing for me. And don't misconstrue that to be me saying both sides are wrong. The behavior was covered. I had nothing new to add to that and already gave an opinion on it. I went over this already.
As far as i'm aware, you're not threadwhining. But you are tone policing. In fact, you have done nothing in this thread but tone policing. It's no wonder people are questioning your motives. If i went into a thread where some douchenozzle said the n word and did nothing but chastize people for their reactions, i would be deservedly pissed on and probably banned tbh.
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