Greg Miller and Andrea Rene handwave Notch and PewDiePie racist, transphobic and anti-semitic behaviour (UP: GM and AR respond; see threadmarks)
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I feel like we're in a much better place here at the (current) end of the thread, but I saw this video pop up in the conversation a way back and I didn't want it to be forgotten.
I saw someone respond to the video with "...yikes, that was bad." That bit isn't bad; that bit is horrendous.
When Polygon did that piece on me last year, a commenter brought it up, and my responses are as true now as they were then:
When asked about decisions I regret in my career, this is one I bring up. It was a stupid, juvenile way to start an interview, and I’m lucky that Camilla rolled with it rather than tell me how gross that was. I’ve been lucky enough to interview her and host her panels a few times since then, and I’ve never been able to get a moment alone to apologize as profusely as I’d like. When the interview wrapped, I thanked her for playing along, but I didn’t truly understand how horrible I was until years later.
It was a shitty, lazy bit that added no value to the interview. It was good for a cheap laugh, but it also boiled someone most of the audience didn’t know down to just being naked, which served no purpose for the discussion at hand about her (excellent) take on Lara. It was low-hanging fruit.
I know a lot of people here don't watch my content or know much about me. If there's one thing I'd like you to take away, it's that I'm all about the journey to being a better person.
As this week has shown, it's on-going and never-ending. On my podcasts, I try to lead by example. When someone calls something "gay" in a letter, I stop the show and we talk about it. Rather than rage, I tell the story of my first gay friend and how he pulled me aside when he heard me say it one day during freshman year. When we talk about being sensitive to disabilities, I tell the story of when AbleGamers' Steve Spohn called me on the phone to talk about a line I accidentally crossed at PAX.
I've fucked up a lot, but I learn from the fuck ups, and it's made me the person I am today, and I like that guy.
This Camilla story is another example of all that. I'm not proud when I talk about it; I'm ashamed of it and wish it had never happened. It's influenced choices I make on camera to this day, and hopefully me talking about what a stupid, insensitive choice it was stops someone else from making a similar stupid, insensitive choice.
(EDITED: Expanded on an "it's" so you understood what "it" is.)
So, first off, I do hope Andrea learned from this and she doesn't hve to run into this problem again. But I'm wondering if this statement could be stronger.
Take a moment to consider the infamous phrase "I'm not a racist, but". Why is that phrase used? For one, it's because being a racist is a terrible look, and even racists are aware of it. They're perfect fine with being racist, but they don't want to receive the label because there might be negative consequences to that. Secondly, it's incredibly easy to say that you aren't a racist, or you don't condone racism, or that you don't support racism. It's so easy to say that you can say it immediately before you do the things you just said you don't do. There's no real force behind the statement.
Andrea's statement isn't exactly bad, but a lot of it is that sort of general, easy statement. If you want to avoid having a weak position on things like this, there are a few ways you can go.
One, specificity. There's a certain amount here; it's noted that there are hateful, transphobic, and anti-Semitic messages in Notch and PewDiePie's statements. But you could go into detail about what those messages are, why they are wrong, and how you had misrepresented them. The more your statement is clearly about this incident and not any other, the more you showcase that you've actually been thinking about it, those serve to showcase that there's a genuine desire to improve and correct the issue. It serves to demonstrate that the statement is there to communicate something of substance and not just there to shield you from potential fallout.
Two, provide something tangible. If you say you support a group, how? Based on this incident, is there something you're going to try to do differently to avoid the problem happening again? Is there something you're going to try to be more aware and mindful of? By stating goals and actions that are clearly realizable and not just general ideals, by showcasing that you have or are trying to develop some kind of plan, you're showing that your statement of support is not just an empty statement.
Again, I hope Andrea's sincere in having learned about this, and this statement is also sincere. But if you want to demonstrate that in a clearer way, you can build it up along those lines.
Thank you for your permission.
gameovergreggy
I don’t know if you’ve been reading any of the Boogie discourse, but I would just like to bring direct attention to it.
I feel like being chummy over public social media with someone that has enabled, downplayed, and emboldened bigotry is beyond poor form, and it kind of hurts.
Perhaps Boogie is not on the same level of outward offenses as Notch, but he has a visible trend of unsavory behavior, such as equating white supremacy to some fashion trend, and promoting the idea that good things came from the Holocaust.
As recent as a few days ago, you responded to a tweet from him in joking fashion, kind of sending the message that “this person and their values are both normal and fine.”
Perhaps it was out of courtesy, or perhaps you are close friends. I don’t know. I believe you’re being genuine with your posts in the thread, and what your intentions are, but the interactions with Boogie make it incredibly difficult to not see this incident as potentially an underlying trend, and it reinforces the impression that standing up for what is right is less important than maintaining the peace via the fence-sitting “lets all be better to each other” mentality that you’ve recently touched on.
Thanks for this post. This is what I've been waiting on a response from Greg about.
I get that you're bothered by them interacting online, but I don't understanding painting a response to a joke on Twitter as if they're best friends that have lunch and stay up on the phone talking all night. This is a severe overestimation of Twitter relationships.
it's not often in the GAF/ERA community you see a gaming industry member with a big enough name get a thread like this and they not only stick around, but attempt to make amends. I won't say it's a first out of memory, but I don't recall many. If at all.
I think the press sneak fuck might be the only other one.
I had a little bit of a snarky response earlier in this thread about anyone at Kinda Funny coming in and providing constructive discourse in this thread, but I have to apologize for that because you, Greg and Andrea, have done a great job responding to some of the harder criticisms in here. I really appreciate it.
Hey Greg, I want you to know I'm not some random ERA poster hell bent on tearing you down. I listened to Podcast Beyond weekly starting shortly after episode 50. I followed Kinda Funny in the early days and watched a lot of Colin and Greg Live's on my lunch breaks. In fact I was in a Gregway episode, if you even remember that segment. But I watched that Up At Noon when it was new and that comment you made bothered me then and as the years passed seeing you never address it made it feel even more gross to me, to the point where it became one of the reasons I stopped listening to your stuff. (I missed the Polygon mention of it due to my longstanding tradition of not reading Polygon). In hindsight I should have commented/e-mailed/tweeted at the time and explained why that felt so wrong to me. Yesterday, it felt like the right time to post that clip, obviously some agreed with me and others didn't.
It's an unfortunate comment and it's even more unfortunate that it wasn't something you immediately regretted. But your response seems genuine and I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt that you're a better person today. We all have stuff we're ashamed of, let's move on.
Hey gameovergreggy, you’ve always came across as a decent dude over the years and a close friend of mine met you at the Borderlands event and echoed those same thoughts. So that’s why I was super disappointed to read all about this stuff, but I’m glad you took the time to type out pretty thoughtful responses to this whole thing. Same thing with Andrea. Thanks to both of you.
Sweet Jesus. Someone in the greater gaming community actually responding postively to well-founded criticism? Did I just suffer a stroke?!
I think this has overall been a pretty productive experience for both Greg and Andrea. I've liked both of them on the past (I remember listening to Andrea on weekend confirmed like 10 years ago now) and it always stings whenever someone I've followed for a long time fucks up on something as important as this.
Im glad they have both seemed to not only understand but hopefully be able to grow from this and reexamine the place of privlage they speak from. Good on you both because Lord knows there have been others who pull a "fuck you" and lean hard into the "anti sjw" lane afterward.
Im glad they have both seemed to not only understand but hopefully be able to grow from this and reexamine the place of privlage they speak from. Good on you both because Lord knows there have been others who pull a "fuck you" and lean hard into the "anti sjw" lane afterward.
This really has turned into an incredibly positive outcome and its so refreshing that it turned out this way. Cant be said enough how awesome it is that both came out and gave some serious apologies and statements about being better moving forward. And for everyone who was claiming this community is only out for blood and wanted to crucify them, almost everyone has shown theyre happy to forgive so long as those in question show a serious attempt at reconciling and trying to be better (which I think they both did). It nice to have something good happen for once in the gaming milieu
Andrea Rene has replied to some comments on the kindafunny reddit.
She is replying to a comment, you can read the comment she is replying to and other comments she made here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/kindafunny...andrea_are_currently_getting_dragged/emd9p4j/
She is replying to a comment, you can read the comment she is replying to and other comments she made here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/kindafunny...andrea_are_currently_getting_dragged/emd9p4j/
Totally agree with both of these posts.
Fan-fucking-tastic response. There is nothing more I can add to this. We all make mistakes but only some of us aren’t brave enough to face the fire and make amends when one does just that. I thank you for that.
As far as I’m concerned this case’s closed.
This point is worth isolating:
I know that this isn't her response but just her saying how she kind of wanted to respond, but this is never the appropriate way to go about this kind of problem.
There's no "of course" about this. It may seem obvious to you that you don't do this because you're in your own head and are free to look at your intent, but you're the only one who can do that. Other people have to look at how you act and the things you say to see who you are and what you're about.
Maybe you have good intentions and simply messed up in what you did or said. Or maybe your intentions aren't as good as you think they are, and you haven't engaged in the introspection to see what values your actions and statements actually reflect. You may have unconsciously absorbed harmful ideas or biases from your environment. We don't know what's going on, so you have to demonstrate that.
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gameovergreggy could have easily left this place behind and never bothered to post here again but it's encouraging to see him take the criticism in stride, apologize and hopefully learn from this experience. Kudos both to him and Andrea Rene for what feel to me like genuine apologies. You don't seem to get a lot of those nowadays.
I don't like Greg Miller as a 'personality' mainly from his drunken appearances on the Giant Bomb E3 shows. I've never watched any KF and probably never will. I say that not to dunk on him but because despite that I do appreciate his efforts to listen to the justified criticisms. No matter what results from it, its the best possible step forward.
Yeah, it shouldn't be something you say a few times a year and expect viewers/listeners to remember for the rest of time whether they heard you say it each time or not, but something you say every time so that people don't misconstrue your views. Don't let the shitty people think you're cool with them even once.
I appreciate both of their responses. Hopefully they'll be able do better with how they communicate, to look back at this video and say, "I'm glad we're doing better than that"
Ugh, Of course she would categorize the thread as being nonsense to go along with the apology.
The big question is, does this count for Meltdown May even though it aired on the last day of april? 
To be fair there's a lot of fucking nonsense in this thread mixed in with the legitimate concerns.
Not anywhere near the amount to label it a ton. In fact Idk how many pages you would have to go back to find any posts that are gross or straight up nonsense like she suggests. And honestly given the topic and how shes at the center of it she didn't need to say that. The complaints about the bad posts in this thread are honestly way over blown.
One post said John Drake should dumb her and he deserves better. If I was her reading this thread, that post alone will turn me off from reading the rest of the thread even if the majority of people were reasonable. The negative and personal attacks even if they are outlier stings and linger more than the majority of constructive posts.
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'Please stay in your lane and complain in the manner i deem appropriate.'
It's what these people mean.
Some people sure like to micromanage minorities' emotions and reactions.
I'm glad Greg came back and engaged with and seemingly has listened to the issues people have with their commentary.
With Andrea, if people want to accept her apology that's fine but there's a lot of things she's saying in those Reddit posts that's very suspect.
Everybody wants to put a nice little bow on it but I seriously doubt her sincerity but I hope I'm wrong. Having said that, there's nothing really left for me to add to this particular discussion.
With Andrea, if people want to accept her apology that's fine but there's a lot of things she's saying in those Reddit posts that's very suspect.
Everybody wants to put a nice little bow on it but I seriously doubt her sincerity but I hope I'm wrong. Having said that, there's nothing really left for me to add to this particular discussion.
Andrea isn't sincere whatsoever. She despises the community unless they're singing her praises and giving her money. I've followed Kinda Funny for a long time and I'm positive she'd rather put every single person who bothers her on mute and never interact with a single person who confronts her. Numerous times she's gloated about blocking people on Twitter and has asked if Kinda Funny can just disable the YouTube comments. One would think she's been conditioned to avoid all discourse due to the true pieces of crap who want to hate her for no apparent reason, but the truth of the matter is she can't admit when she's wrong. I guarantee Greg had to strongly convince her to write an apology. She would've never done that if not for him.
Of course and we absolutely should rebuke those types of responses. But they aren't the vast majority of posts in here and I think that matters. I mean shes posting on reddit where there are easily responses like that there as well. I have no issue with calling out shitty posts but a lot of people here and on reddit have tried misconstruing the actual content of this thread into something its not. And Andrea really shouldnt be harping on about a few outlier posts when she just got done defending a bunch of white supremacists. Let the mods here deal with that, theyre pretty damn good at it.
Yeah I mean there are absolutely posts here that are shitty but just doesn't really feel like a great time to be attempting to suggest thats what a ton of the conversation was like here, especially given her position in all of this.
Four posts later:
This thread is chocked full of nonsense like this.
I'm not exactly personally invested in this conversation at all, as I know none of the people involved and all I know I've learned from reading this thread, but since we're all about posting comments from reddit here, here's the one that's immediately under the posted apology:
TheKingPriam said:
Seems kind of shitty, but make of it what you will.andrea_rene said:
Someone expressing their opinion of her is somehow now gross or straight up nonsense? Shes a public figure, one who just got done arguing for pdp and notch. Some people are likely to have stronger feelings about her than others but almost everyone, even in the subreddit and in the hangouts here, acknowledges that same sentiment, that andrea is nearly incapable of admitting when shes wrong about something and when she does she usually prefaces it with some sort of asterisk to add to it-here that being decrying this thread as having a ton of gross comments.
What is it that you find particularly gross ( or rather why its nonsense) about that person's post?
This is exactly the kind of thing people are talking about with her. Just apologize and be done with the whole situation. Labeling an entire thread and community as largely d bags because theyre calling you out on your bullshit isn't a good look after it seemed you made a pretty convincing and compelling apology that almost everyone here was ready to forgive you for and move on.
Stating that she despises her community is nonsense. Saying that the only reason she apologized is because Greg forced her to is nonsense.
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