Greg Miller and Andrea Rene handwave Notch and PewDiePie racist, transphobic and anti-semitic behaviour (UP: GM and AR respond; see threadmarks)

[LookAtMeGo]

You can see people as "big ole douchebags" when you read their comments seemingly attacking your character, but thats exactly how those people will feel about you when you seemingly go to bat for people who actively attack others just for existing.

But I do really appreciate Gregs comment about fucking up and learning from it. I'm a walking fuck up and have made enough mistakes in my life. Just gota learn from them and better yourself. That was a solid response.

 

[Haribo]

One day y'all gonna have to come to terms with how many miscreants are lurking in the gaming community and how many public figures in this industry have no idea how to deal with them as their colleagues, associates and friends.

 

[Deleted member 36578]

Stating that she despises her community is nonsense. Saying that the only reason she apologized is because Greg forced her to us nonsense.

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How do you know that? I really don't want to go fishing for examples in various vids but she's expressed her distaste not only for people who watch Kinda Funny but for anyone who refutes her about anything at all on any form of media. Especially when the criticism is in regards to something she's either involved with or in disagreement with. It honestly comes off as quite toxic and the way she really belittles people just sucks. I'll give her the benefit of the doubt that she truly says fuck bigots , however I'm still certain she would've rather glossed over this entire ordeal rather than confront it.

I just wanted to add I really do appreciate her speaking up at all. I wasn't expecting it in the least. Hopefully she and Greg spoke at length and she came out learning from this just as much as he has.

 

[Bufbaf]

Andreas apology goes above and beyond what some (including me) were expecting, including a direct point againgst PDP and Notch. Well done and thank you, to the both of you.

 

[GTAce]

Andrea isn't sincere whatsoever. She despises the community unless they're singing her praises and giving her money. I've followed Kinda Funny for a long time and I'm positive she'd rather put every single person who bothers her on mute and never interact with a single person who confronts her. Numerous times she's gloated about blocking people on Twitter and has asked if Kinda Funny can just disable the YouTube comments. One would think she's been conditioned to avoid all discourse due to the true pieces of crap who want to hate her for no apparent reason, but the truth of the matter is she can't admit when she's wrong. I guarantee Greg had to strongly convince her to write an apology. She would've never done that if not for him.

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Yeah I agree.

 

[massoluk]

I'm not exactly personally invested in this conversation at all, as I know none of the people involved and all I know I've learned from reading this thread, but since we're all about posting comments from reddit here, here's the one that's immediately under the posted apology:





Seems kind of shitty, but make of it what you will.

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Sigh, I thought we're fine here, good will given and all and we got a post like this from her. I certainly don't want this to be a dogpiling, but it almost seems inevitable.

 

[jviggy43]

Stating that she despises her community is nonsense. Saying that the only reason she apologized is because Greg forced her to is nonsense.

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How is it anymore nonsense then you assuming the opposite? Like whats the criteria here for what makes a valid opinion from a nonsense one? Because both of you just made statements without actually knowing whats motivating her to do so, the only problem is you think that because their conclusions are different than yours this somehow makes it nonsense. I'm not sure why.

 

[Batatina]

For me this the issue stems with the tone of the show (and most of these gaming shows that are so afraid of politics), where bringing "positivity" means you brush aside real problems. But as Greg said this comes from privilege, because those affected can't afford to ignore their predicaments for the sake of entertainment. This isn't fictional programing or escapism, these podcasts are about the real world and if presenters hold views that are supportive of the margins, they are in an incredible position to speak up for those views clearly and help those whose voice is already being silenced and brushed aside everywhere (some are driven to the point of anger for it, which you can see in this very forum).

There is just no way that these shows can stay apolitical, because not doing anything is enabling those more powerful to make advances. No one should be burned at the stake, but things have to be raised and PDP and Notch and other people who support platforms for bigotry have to be held accountable. It does not do a disservice to entertainment if you are contributing to a fairer society, and if your viewers feel safer in the environment you are trying to create.

With this whole post I just mean to say I appreciate Greg's statements, but I didn't particularly doubt his views - for me the problem is the apolitical approach if the show in general. Andrea's statements were a little bit more frustrating, because she still is holding to that privilege and does not understand why this forum is so angry. People are tired of the world reverting to the past as they see alt-right movements take control. They are choosing to fight, and not all people can be calm and collected about it. This place isn't evil or aggressive, it's just one of the only places that is moderated to make people feel heard.

 

[digitalrelic]

How is it anymore nonsense then you assuming the opposite? Like whats the criteria here for what makes a valid opinion from a nonsense one? Because both of you just made statements without actually knowing whats motivating her to do so, the only problem is you think that because their conclusions are different than yours this somehow makes it nonsense. I'm not sure why.

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You are making bad-faith, baseless arguments stated as fact. You literally stated that you "guarantee" that Greg made her apologize, and then whine about people calling you out on it.

The burden of proof is on you, because you're the one making claims and "guaranteeing" things that you can't possibly know to be true.

 

[Quad Lasers]

I'm not exactly personally invested in this conversation at all, as I know none of the people involved and all I know I've learned from reading this thread, but since we're all about posting comments from reddit here, here's the one that's immediately under the posted apology:

Seems kind of shitty, but make of it what you will.

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Can't believe people were big assholes to me over my

*check notes*

indifference and sympathy to white supremacists.

 

[jviggy43]

You are making bad-faith, baseless arguments stated as fact. You literally stated that you "guarantee" that Greg made her apologize, and then whine about people calling you out on it.

The burden of proof is on you, because you're the one making claims and "guaranteeing" things that you can't possibly know to be true.

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Check who youre quoting, because I didn't say that. Like at all. I'm actually pretty positive you legitimately are confusing me with someone else.

Second if thats how someone feels you still have yet to actually articulate why thats a disgusting assumption to make and if the argument is, its without evidence, how is your position any different? Its not.

And further, Andrea talking to the subreddit about how shes doing this for them and not for THIS community, is part of the problem. Shes drawing a line in the sand for people of the KF community who post here and who post there, as if the KF best friends on ERA are somehow not apart of the real kinda funny best friends, but D bags merely because some posters made some shitty posts (a phenomenon that no message board is insulated from mind you, especially the one she chooses to post on IE reddot) and because were not willing to overlook the sad defense she gave of two white supremacists on monday. Like if anything her follow up comments are only aiding that poster's opinion of her-that any dissenting part of the KF community she writes off and shuts down. Acting like shes in a dammed if she does or doesn't scenario is ridiculous when all but 1-2 posts here following her apology were thanking her and ready to move on. And honestly those 1-2 posts that doubted her sincerity are starting to appear validated given her post apology comments of labeling this place a bunch of D bags and saying she isn't doing this for the people she upset in this community, many of which are also apart of the KF community. So yeah, thats a pretty fucking apparent disregard to the very thing she just got done saying she was sorry for. Shes says shes going to reflect, right before reverting back to saying she isn't going to do so for people who were hurt by her comments HERE.

Like she only has her self to blame for that kind of perception.

 

[Kyle Cross]

Greg seems sincere, good on him. I believe people can change for the better, and he seems committed to doing that.

Andrea's comments on reddit however calls her entire apology into question.

 

[Budi]

Andrea Rene has replied to some comments on the kindafunny reddit.




She is replying to a comment, you can read the comment she is replying to and other comments she made here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/kindafunny...andrea_are_currently_getting_dragged/emd9p4j/

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Ooof, not a good look. Not that ResetEra wouldn't have it's fair share of douchebags, this thread included. But when you're responding to legitimate criticism and apologizing. Don't then just right after turn yourself into victim, it really takes away from your apology a lot. It makes it seem you clarified and apologized just because you felt forced to, not because you sincerely understood your mistake and felt bad because of it. She could had atleast sucked it up for the sake of Greg and Kinda Funny and not get so defensive in front of people who already are saying she had nothing to apologize. Seems to be much easier for her to call people here as douchebags than Notch and PDP in the original discussion, come on now.

 

[tommy7154]

I'm a white dude so with that in mind, I think Greg's response nailed it with the talk about privilege. We (white people) can take all kinds of shit for granted to the point we barely, if ever, even think about it.

It is 2019 though and it is well past time that we do. Though I think it's hard, if not impossible, to completely understand and feel what many minorities have to deal with every single day of their lives, we can empathize as much as possible and listen to their plight in order to help each other turn this ship around and make things right. There's zero doubt in my mind that that's exactly what we'll do.

Things may look pretty bleak right now but for every action there will be an overwhelming and opposite reaction.

 

[Deleted member 888]

Ooof, not a good look. Not that ResetEra wouldn't have it's fair share of douchebags, this thread included. But when you're responding to legitimate criticism and apologizing. Don't then just right after turn yourself into victim, it really takes away from your apology a lot. It makes it seem you clarified and apologized just because you felt forced to, not because you sincerely understood your mistake and felt bad because of it. She could had atleast played along for the sake of Greg and Kinda Funny. Seems to be much easier for her to call people here as douchebags than Notch and PDP in the original discussion, come on now.

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While Greg has totally avoided doing so it's possible to be a little emotional, even when you're in the wrong, when you browse 40+ pages of men basically saying you're a piece of shit, Nazi adjacent and from a few posts ago apparently someone was saying the person you are in a relationship with deserves better. I mean jesus fucking Christ there's pointing out where someone has gone wrong and then there is degrees of character assassination to appease your own bloodlust.

If there is one thing I genuinely don't like about pockets of this community at times it's those who walk around like they are literally perfect, never lash out, never get over emotional and are also capable of taking criticism and mockery on the chin at all times. There's people around here who lose the fucking plot if you say their plastic console of choice or favourite developer has flaws. So maybe some self-reflection is needed for some in this topic too, about what they say on the internet just because they're an anonymous avatar. You can condemn someone or even mock their points without being so God damn hyperbolic and sometimes genuinely mean yourself.

Honestly, some men especially in this topic need to realize it can be a bit emotional at times reading hundreds of posts of people calling you a piece of shit and implying they know everything about your life, partner and what goes in your head. Even if you have made a mistake/need to listen and learn.

 

[Deleted member 13101]

May I ask you why you think that's nonsense?

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I can answer this. Your own post above is largely conspiracy theory-level. You have no personal insight into Greg's or Andrea's timeline how they got from the gamescast to here and now. Yet that didn't stop you, or others, from crafting such narratives.

Did you know that when I signed up for the Kinda Funny forums, when Kinda Funny first started, the first thing I saw on the forum from the community manager was "If you don't agree with Greg and Colin, you can GTFO"? And I still remember the on-stream "we don't need you if you don't agree with us" generalizations from the two original hosts that were made seemingly daily. As a new community member, I didn't think that was very welcoming at all. I thought to myself "why was THIS so important to be one of the principal tenets of Kinda Funny?" That was the first and last time I signed into that forum, and didn't circle back to Kinda Funny until well after someone had departed.

I think most would agree that Kinda Funny has come a long way since those days. And if they were able to change and come far since that time, it's possible for them to go even farther. As fans of Kinda Funny, and Era members, we're asking them to on this issue.

But this is what concerns me about some of the contents of threads like this: I wonder how many more people have left this forum for good just this week, never to return, because of the way some chose to address the issue here.

This thread was intended to highlight a conversation full of uninformed insensitivity, and make a plea for better judgement. It certainly was not intended to be the "Andrea is completely terrible" thread. Yet there were enough terrible posts about Andrea in this thread to make her, or anyone, not want to come to this forum ever again. How people think that the focus should be moved away from the issue (and the concerns raised by your fellow Era members), and onto YOUR own theories of who they are and how they got here, or onto gross personal attacks just because YOU happen to know who works in the industry that is related to her, is beyond me. A few posts up from this one even suggests that a woman fake her response for a man's sake. Do you know how terrible that reads?

So yes, Andrea described some contributions to this thread as being from "big ole douchebags". You think she's wrong? Don't continue to post things that have nothing to do with the issue at hand, and/or serve to prove her right. Understand from my initial experience with Kinda Funny, and let's hope that others catch on to see that it doesn't take very much to turn people away for good.

 

[JasonV]

I mean jesus fucking Christ there's pointing out where someone has gone wrong and then there is degrees of character assassination to appease your own bloodlust.

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Oh stop with this pearl clutching tone policing nonsense.

People got called out on their bullshit. Thats it.

 

[janoGX]

Oh stop with this pearl clutching tone policing nonsense.

People got called out on their bullshit. Thats it.

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There's the "they haven't informed themselves well", "they shouldn't have done that", "they fucked up", "it was a conversation full of uninformed insensitivity, have better judgement" call out which many did and correctly and Greg and Andrea corrected, and then there's the "they're white nationalists/supremasists" that many here have done.

There's a whole world of difference when you criticize someone, and when you basically crucify them because they make a mistake.

 

[digitalrelic]

I can answer this. Your own post above is largely conspiracy theory-level. You have no personal insight into Greg's or Andrea's timeline how they got from the gamescast to here and now. Yet that didn't stop you, or others, from crafting such narratives.

Did you know that when I signed up for the Kinda Funny forums, when Kinda Funny first started, the first thing I saw on the forum from the community manager was "If you don't agree with Greg and Colin, you can GTFO"? And I still remember the on-stream "we don't need you if you don't agree with us" generalizations from the two original hosts that were made seemingly daily. As a new community member, I didn't think that was very welcoming at all. I thought to myself "why was THIS so important to be one of the principal tenets of Kinda Funny?" That was the first and last time I signed into that forum, and didn't circle back to Kinda Funny until well after someone had departed.

I think most would agree that Kinda Funny has come a long way since those days. And if they were able to change and come far since that time, it's possible for them to go even farther. As fans of Kinda Funny, and Era members, we're asking them to on this issue.

But this is what concerns me about some of the contents of threads like this: I wonder how many more people have left this forum for good just this week, never to return, because of the way some chose to address the issue here.

This thread was intended to highlight a conversation full of uninformed insensitivity, and make a plea for better judgement. It certainly was not intended to be the "Andrea is completely terrible" thread. Yet there were enough terrible posts about Andrea in this thread to make her, or anyone, not want to come to this forum ever again. How people think that the focus should be moved away from the issue (and the concerns raised by your fellow Era members), and onto YOUR own theories of who they are and how they got here, or onto gross personal attacks just because YOU happen to know who works in the industry that is related to her, is beyond me. A few posts up from this one even suggests that a woman fake her response for a man's sake. Do you know how terrible that reads?

So yes, Andrea described some contributions to this thread as being from "big ole douchebags". You think she's wrong? Don't continue to post things that have nothing to do with the issue at hand, and/or serve to prove her right. Understand from my initial experience with Kinda Funny, and let's hope that others catch on to see that it doesn't take very much to turn people away for good.

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Bingo. Said it better than I could. Thank you for this.

 

[Deleted member 888]

Oh stop with this pearl clutching tone policing nonsense.

People got called out on their bullshit. Thats it.

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So stating that someone's partner deserves better, calling someone subhuman, throwing around Nazi flippantly, saying you are a fraud who hates your own community and just drains money from them, "Andrea isn't sincere whatsoever. She despises the community unless they're singing her praises and giving her money.", acting like you are telepathic and can read someone's mind and so on is "Just calling out bullshit"? Not to mention implying Greg is somehow the master of Andrea and coerced her into responding?

No, I'm not backing down here. They were both in the wrong and time is needed to read, listen and yes, apologize. But some of the behaviour in this topic treated this like some sort of public "execution" in the square. A public display of shouting everything you could muster up to shame, denigrate and tar someone. A very manly display I guess, almost like the sport of hunting or something.

I can assure you, irrespective of Andrea and Greg being in the wrong, other people read this topic and feel the same way even if they don't speak up. And you wonder sometimes why devs, industry insiders and others just treat this forum as a PR/marketing tool and not somewhere where they want to either sign up or engage outwith 100% business related posts? Some have even left this community.

Hey there - you're not wrong that a ton of that thread was gross and bad and straight up nonsense. Greg asked if I wanted help making an account to post there and I said, "no thanks." However, I still felt the need to take responsibility for my lack of knowledge on the situation as a whole,

I hope my statement didn't come off as fake because it wasn't. I put a lot of time into making sure I conveyed my thoughts and feelings appropriately. Did I want to just write: OF COURSE I DON'T SUPPORT PEOPLE BEING SHITTY!! You bet I did. But my statement wasn't for the people being assholes in that thread.

It was for long time supporters of KF and WGG that expressed concerns about our conversation in a polite and constructive way. I consulted with several people I respect about the conversation, and about what I can do better and how to be a better ally. For that, I won't apologize.

I hope this helps clarify why I decided to write what I did.

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I mean yeah, some of Andrea's reddit responses are just not going to help herself. Be a Greg. Ignore the drama. But you know what, some people struggle to do that. They let their emotions get the better of them when they read some real bullshit about themselves. So if some men around here are going to act like they are squeaky clean and perfect 24/7, and can hold their emotions in like masculinity tells you to, you better be putting up. You better never be leaking those emotions out when strangers say you are a piece of shit, your family/significant other could do better, etc, etc.

And some of you actually thought Andrea would want to sign up here? Self-reflection time, do you blame her for saying "no thanks"?

"But this community IS perfect, and we never need to do some self-reflection as a community!" Yeah, I can assure you that is not fucking true. Some individuals in this topic, a minority, really do need to consider their ways of speaking and behaviour on the internet too.

And what, some of you would call me out/report me for tone-policing? I'm incredibly sorry, but I'm simply saying what a small majority are probably thinking reading some of this 40+ page public dragging. Irrespective of there being genuinely good and well thought out posts for Greg and Andrea to read, digest and think about.

 

[Stop It]

Hey, everyone--

Sorry for not making it back yesterday. This is the first time I've sat at a computer since posting Tuesday night.

Someone pointed out above that the discussion is anchored to Era, so I could probably just leave and never come back. That's not my way. All I have is my authenticity. I don't mind talking and learning.

Thank you for continuing the conversation here. There are a lot of posts here that really help me out, and I think shine a light on what went wrong Monday because, believe it or not, we agree: fuck bigots and racists.

Where we got off track Monday on the show comes down to "privilege." Many of you have echoed the same thought on here that's basically "How the fuck can Greg NOT know all this shit about PDP/Notch." The answer is pretty simple: when you say dumb shit on the Internet and you're just on the peripheral of my world (another influencer/some retired dev), I go "Well, you're dumb" and ignore you.

That's privilege.

I haven't had to fight for my rights, my identity, or my life. I identify my job as keeping Kinda Funny going, critiquing games, and keeping up with gaming news when it comes to titles/developers/etc. As such, it's easy to not click on Julia Alexander's headlines about YouTube personalities fucking up and keep looking for info on Game Pass.

That's privilege, and frankly, it's not one I've had to think about until this week.

If you watch Kinda Funny, you know that I preach "be better to each other," but beyond my one on one interactions, I'm still trying to figure out what that means. 2018 saw me acknowledge that I have a platform and that I need to be better about using it. I brought on smaller creators and tried to highlight minority voices.

To me, everything we're talking about is another aspect of that, and it's one that I need to learn. Monday saw me try to get a handle on two stories that intersected with *my* gaming world and the world I've seen headlines about but haven't focused on. That's not OK. My responsibilities are greater than that.

I gotta go record the Gamescast, but after that, I'll pop back in to respond to some more comments.
Greg

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That's the burden of privilege.

Just because something doesn't affect you, doesn't mean it doesn't matter.

I'm glad you realise this, and I hope you can think of those who are hurt by hate, before dismissing it as "dumb shit" to ignore.

We should never ignore hate. We need to fight hate. Please understand that dismissal of hate as not worth your attention does a grave disservice for those it does affect.

 

[Gundam]

The insinuation that Andrea only responded because of Greg comes off as misogynistic conspiracy.

I don't care for her apology or bits of her online persona that much, but come on, people.

 

[Gundam]

Tagging gameovergreggy to hopefully get a response on what I tagged him in earlier.

 

[mescalineeyes]

"Era sure is bad and gross" says person posting on reddit.

 

[Moosichu]

NOTE: this post flip flops in opinion a bit as I find it really hard to reconcile a world where calm discourse is more effective then reactionary behaviour, yet the reality of the matter is that many people don't have the time or privilege to do that for issues that affect all of us so deeply.

You can highlight issues without being an asshole. The sheer nature of the Internet means that there inevitably will be some assholes. On any side of any issue. All you can do as a person is look for the people trying reach out, and reflect on why it is something that so emotionally charges others.

But yeah, if you have been aggressive towards Andrea and Greg for their poor remarks, and they have now reflected on that. If the community you are a part of gets called out on its own poor actions, maybe do the courtious thing and reflect on your own behavior as well.

There has been some great content in here. Greg and Andrea have also used it to learn and grow. Don't make this situation personal just because someone is naturally upset about the personal attacks they have endured.

However, saying "I didn't do it for them" (in relation to the more aggressive people) probably isn't a good thing either. Because you don't know the journeys people have been through. If someone makes a good point through aggressive conduct, try and listen to that point and understand their emotions. People have experienced very real pain from the behaviour of bigots and white supremacists, not just in words but in actions. In the fucking president of the United States. There is a reason why they are frustrated and don't have the patience to explain everything in a calm way.

 

[JasonV]

So stating that someone's partner deserves better, calling someone subhuman, throwing around Nazi flippantly, saying you are a fraud who hates your own community and just drains money from them, "Andrea isn't sincere whatsoever", acting like you are telepathic and can read someone's mind and so on is "Just calling out bullshit"?

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You are cherry picking and mis-characterising- there are some very nuanced and thoughtful posts in this thread.

No, I'm not backing down here. They were both in the wrong and time is needed to read, listen and yes, apologize. But some of the behaviour in this topic treated like this some sort of public "execution" in the square. A public display of shouting everything you could muster up to shame, denigrate and tar someone. A very manly display I guess, almost like the sport of hunting or something.

Click to shrink...

Calling out the downplaying of racism = public execution. Amazing

I can assure you, irrespective of Andrea and Greg being in the wrong, other people read this topic and feel the same way even if they don't speak up. And you wonder sometimes why devs, industry insiders and others just treat this forum as a PR/marketing tool and not somewhere where they want to either sign up or engage outwith 100% business related posts? Some have even left this community.

Click to shrink...

Now who can read minds.

I mean yeah, some of Andrea's reddit responses are just not going to help herself. Be a Greg. Ignore the drama.

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Yes a conversation about the industry wide phenomena of downplaying racism and bigotry is just "drama"

So if some men around here are going to act like they are squeaky clean and perfect 24/7, and can hold their emotions in like masculinity tells you to, you better be putting up. You better never be leaking those emotions out when strangers say you are a piece of shit, your family/significant other could do better, etc, etc.

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WTF are you talking about?

And some of you actually thought Andrea would want to sign up here? Self-reflection time, do you blame her for saying "no thanks"?

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Yes Reddit is much more civilised.

"But this community IS perfect, and we never need to do some self-reflection as a community!" Yeah, I can assure you that is not fucking true.

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Who has ever said this community is perfect?

And what, some of you would call me out/report me for tone-policing? I'm incredibly sorry, but I'm simply saying what a small majority are probably thinking reading some of this 40+ page public dragging. Irrespective of there being genuinely good and well thought out posts for Greg and Andrea to read, digest and think about.

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Still mind reading?

You are never, ever going to get a sanitised discussion of racism on the Internet. Equating this thread to a public execution is some spectacular tone policing gibberish.

 

[Tezza]

As people we make discussion, and sometimes act in ways others will not see as acceptable. I do believe people are able to change their views and even apologise and mean it.

I find it disappointing that people on here can't take the apology for what it is, and instead want to still attack and drag their name through the dirt. Don't use this incident to fuel whatever dislike you have against them prior to these awful comments. If Greg and Andrea have history or continue to act in this way, then yes your continuous negative reaction I feel will be valid.

I am a black man of African descent from the UK, and I have experienced and witness racism and discrimination in every aspect of life, especially gaming culture, and I was very disappointed in the comments made on KF by gameovergreggy and Andrea, but you can't fight hate with hate.

I also believe that Era is slowly turning into Gaf, I read replies and comments and it's clear this forum is no better then what came before it.

Anyway just my thoughts on the matter, you can continue to post and reply like you're all Gandhi and Mother Theresa, and have never made a mistake, and genuinely said sorry and meant it.

 

[Deleted member 888]

You are cherry picking and mis-characterising- there are some very nuanced and thoughtful posts in this thread.



Calling out the downplaying of racism = public execution. Amazing


Now who can read minds.



Yes a conversation about the industry wide phenomena of downplaying racism and bigotry is just "drama"


WTF are you talking about?


Yes Reddit is much more civilised.



Who has ever said this community is perfect?



Still mind reading?

You are never, ever going to get a sanitised discussion of racism on the Internet. Equating this thread to a public execution is some spectacular tone policing gibberish.

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And if you want to continue nuanced and thoughtful posts, how about you correctly align my points with what they are targetting? The bad stuff. But sure, what I was really saying was "calling out the downplaying of racism = public execution". Just like some who can read Andrea's mind, you sure do know my real thoughts.

Also, I don't particularly care that you think Reddit is worse than Era, you know what, you're probably right. But what does that tell you someone would rather address their mistakes on Reddit in this instance, than sign up to Era? Were there posts on Reddit saying Andrea's partner could do better or she's a fake just draining money from her fans?

In your race to accuse me of tone policing, you are ironically suggesting that this community shouldn't call out itself? Or at least it seems that way. So in a topic that exists to call out other people, it's what, off-limits to ask some in this community to consider their behaviour too? That's the kind of arrogance on-lookers don't appreciate, that perception that "we are perfect". You don't need to have the people explicitly state "we are perfect", you just have to act or appear like it at times. Who needs a sanitized discussion? Some harsh language or mockery is fine, I said as much above. It's the comments that go past that.

I'm not going to continue to say much more, I said what I felt was worthwhile saying, and ironically, I can't be arsed being emotional and potentially getting myself banned for leaking out my thoughts. Take them or leave them.

 

[massoluk]

Gandhi and Mother Theresa,

Click to shrink...

Well, Ghandhi was a creepy old man and Theresa was straight up a fraud

 

[Afro_Ninja]

I understand coming to Era to apologise and recognise you can do better, and that's the first step.

Now, are these apologies coming in a video as well? Because all KF followed watched 2 creators Kinda giving a pass to racism and bigotry.

Until people apologising don't start using the same platform, reach and power they used to say something bad, but for the apology, I don't much value on this apology.

 

[Deleted member 2172]

I can answer this. Your own post above is largely conspiracy theory-level. You have no personal insight into Greg's or Andrea's timeline how they got from the gamescast to here and now. Yet that didn't stop you, or others, from crafting such narratives.

Did you know that when I signed up for the Kinda Funny forums, when Kinda Funny first started, the first thing I saw on the forum from the community manager was "If you don't agree with Greg and Colin, you can GTFO"? And I still remember the on-stream "we don't need you if you don't agree with us" generalizations from the two original hosts that were made seemingly daily. As a new community member, I didn't think that was very welcoming at all. I thought to myself "why was THIS so important to be one of the principal tenets of Kinda Funny?" That was the first and last time I signed into that forum, and didn't circle back to Kinda Funny until well after someone had departed.

I think most would agree that Kinda Funny has come a long way since those days. And if they were able to change and come far since that time, it's possible for them to go even farther. As fans of Kinda Funny, and Era members, we're asking them to on this issue.

But this is what concerns me about some of the contents of threads like this: I wonder how many more people have left this forum for good just this week, never to return, because of the way some chose to address the issue here.

This thread was intended to highlight a conversation full of uninformed insensitivity, and make a plea for better judgement. It certainly was not intended to be the "Andrea is completely terrible" thread. Yet there were enough terrible posts about Andrea in this thread to make her, or anyone, not want to come to this forum ever again. How people think that the focus should be moved away from the issue (and the concerns raised by your fellow Era members), and onto YOUR own theories of who they are and how they got here, or onto gross personal attacks just because YOU happen to know who works in the industry that is related to her, is beyond me. A few posts up from this one even suggests that a woman fake her response for a man's sake. Do you know how terrible that reads?

So yes, Andrea described some contributions to this thread as being from "big ole douchebags". You think she's wrong? Don't continue to post things that have nothing to do with the issue at hand, and/or serve to prove her right. Understand from my initial experience with Kinda Funny, and let's hope that others catch on to see that it doesn't take very much to turn people away for good.

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So stating that someone's partner deserves better, calling someone subhuman, throwing around Nazi flippantly, saying you are a fraud who hates your own community and just drains money from them, "Andrea isn't sincere whatsoever. She despises the community unless they're singing her praises and giving her money.", acting like you are telepathic and can read someone's mind and so on is "Just calling out bullshit"? Not to mention implying Greg is somehow the master of Andrea and coerced her into responding?

No, I'm not backing down here. They were both in the wrong and time is needed to read, listen and yes, apologize. But some of the behaviour in this topic treated this like some sort of public "execution" in the square. A public display of shouting everything you could muster up to shame, denigrate and tar someone. A very manly display I guess, almost like the sport of hunting or something.

I can assure you, irrespective of Andrea and Greg being in the wrong, other people read this topic and feel the same way even if they don't speak up. And you wonder sometimes why devs, industry insiders and others just treat this forum as a PR/marketing tool and not somewhere where they want to either sign up or engage outwith 100% business related posts? Some have even left this community.



I mean yeah, some of Andrea's reddit responses are just not going to help herself. Be a Greg. Ignore the drama. But you know what, some people struggle to do that. They let their emotions get the better of them when they read some real bullshit about themselves. So if some men around here are going to act like they are squeaky clean and perfect 24/7, and can hold their emotions in like masculinity tells you to, you better be putting up. You better never be leaking those emotions out when strangers say you are a piece of shit, your family/significant other could do better, etc, etc.

And some of you actually thought Andrea would want to sign up here? Self-reflection time, do you blame her for saying "no thanks"?

"But this community IS perfect, and we never need to do some self-reflection as a community!" Yeah, I can assure you that is not fucking true. Some individuals in this topic, a minority, really do need to consider their ways of speaking and behaviour on the internet too.

And what, some of you would call me out/report me for tone-policing? I'm incredibly sorry, but I'm simply saying what a small majority are probably thinking reading some of this 40+ page public dragging. Irrespective of there being genuinely good and well thought out posts for Greg and Andrea to read, digest and think about.

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Bless these posts. I feel the exact same way.

 

[TheWatchGuard]

The insinuation that Andrea only responded because of Greg comes off as misogynistic conspiracy.

I don't care for her apology or bits of her online persona that much, but come on, people.

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She does have a history of refusing to apologize or admit being wrong. I'm sure Greg did ask her to make some sort of apology in order to keep this issue from getting to Colin levels.(she mentioned in a reddit post how he offered to set her up on era to do the apology)

 

[AztecComplex]

I understand coming to Era to apologise and recognise you can do better, and that's the first step.

Now, are these apologies coming in a video as well? Because all KF followed watched 2 creators Kinda giving a pass to racism and bigotry.

Until people apologising don't start using the same platform, reach and power they used to say something bad, but for the apology, I don't much value on this apology.

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Nothing will ever be enough for you.

Quick! Someone go through Greg's highschool yearbook, he might've been friends with a homophobe at one time and he should apologize to us repeatedly in written and video form for that transgression.

In all seriousness Greg went above and beyond when it came to addressing this debacle and handled it as best as it could've been handled given the circumstances. I don't know what else you want.

 

[AztecComplex]

The insinuation that Andrea only responded because of Greg comes off as misogynistic conspiracy.

I don't care for her apology or bits of her online persona that much, but come on, people.

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Finally we can agree on something....

I'm sure Greg did ask her to make some sort of apology in order to keep this issue from getting to Colin levels.(she mentioned in a reddit post how he offered to set her up on era to do the apology)

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For the love of God, stop.

 

[Deleted member 15227]

So stating that someone's partner deserves better, calling someone subhuman, throwing around Nazi flippantly, saying you are a fraud who hates your own community and just drains money from them, "Andrea isn't sincere whatsoever. She despises the community unless they're singing her praises and giving her money.", acting like you are telepathic and can read someone's mind and so on is "Just calling out bullshit"? Not to mention implying Greg is somehow the master of Andrea and coerced her into responding?

No, I'm not backing down here. They were both in the wrong and time is needed to read, listen and yes, apologize. But some of the behaviour in this topic treated this like some sort of public "execution" in the square. A public display of shouting everything you could muster up to shame, denigrate and tar someone. A very manly display I guess, almost like the sport of hunting or something.

I can assure you, irrespective of Andrea and Greg being in the wrong, other people read this topic and feel the same way even if they don't speak up. And you wonder sometimes why devs, industry insiders and others just treat this forum as a PR/marketing tool and not somewhere where they want to either sign up or engage outwith 100% business related posts? Some have even left this community.



I mean yeah, some of Andrea's reddit responses are just not going to help herself. Be a Greg. Ignore the drama. But you know what, some people struggle to do that. They let their emotions get the better of them when they read some real bullshit about themselves. So if some men around here are going to act like they are squeaky clean and perfect 24/7, and can hold their emotions in like masculinity tells you to, you better be putting up. You better never be leaking those emotions out when strangers say you are a piece of shit, your family/significant other could do better, etc, etc.

And some of you actually thought Andrea would want to sign up here? Self-reflection time, do you blame her for saying "no thanks"?

"But this community IS perfect, and we never need to do some self-reflection as a community!" Yeah, I can assure you that is not fucking true. Some individuals in this topic, a minority, really do need to consider their ways of speaking and behaviour on the internet too.

And what, some of you would call me out/report me for tone-policing? I'm incredibly sorry, but I'm simply saying what a small majority are probably thinking reading some of this 40+ page public dragging. Irrespective of there being genuinely good and well thought out posts for Greg and Andrea to read, digest and think about.

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A small correction if I may to an otherwise solid post. Greg didn't ignore the drama, he embraced it and took full responsibility and didn't hide from any of it. Takes some courage to do that and it's appreciated.

Andrea's Reddit comments risked undermining her own apology and fuelling the drama further. It's just unnecessarily combative and unprofessional regardless of the 'douchebags' in this thread.

 

[Tezza]

Well, Ghandhi was a creepy old man and Theresa was straight up a fraud

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Well that indeed best sums up some people on Era

 

[Deleted member 888]

A small correction if I may to an otherwise solid post. Greg didn't ignore the drama, he embraced it and took full responsibility and didn't hide from any of it. Takes some courage to do that and it's appreciated.

Andrea's Reddit comments risked undermining her own apology and fuelling the drama further. It's just unnecessarily combative and unprofessional regardless of the 'douchebags' in this thread.

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I meant Greg ignored unsavoury comments. That kind of drama. That doesn't mean he didn't read them and/or feel emotional about them. It means he handled them in an external way that doesn't "feed the trolls". The best action, but something ordinary people can struggle with when it seems there is hundreds of them.

Because in moderated communities one of the main ways you can trip yourself up is getting emotional about comments that are arguably unfair. Not the harsh the criticism you should be listening to, if you push back at that people will respond negatively to you for justified reasons. The bad stuff. If you emotionally cannot handle it, it can end up causing drama which undermines your own apology.

But that's the internet for you. Not every actor online is acting in good faith. Some people aren't looking for you to try and be better or listen and learn. They just want to say horrible shit wherever they can.

 

[Deleted member 15227]

meant Greg ignored unsavoury comments. That kind of drama. That doesn't mean he didn't read them and/or feel emotional about them. It means he handled them in an external way that doesn't "feed the trolls". The best action, but something ordinary people can struggle with when it seems there is hundreds of them.

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Ah right, I get what you're trying to say now.

 

[kiaaa]

A small correction if I may to an otherwise solid post. Greg didn't ignore the drama, he embraced it and took full responsibility and didn't hide from any of it. Takes some courage to do that and it's appreciated.

Andrea's Reddit comments risked undermining her own apology and fuelling the drama further. It's just unnecessarily combative and unprofessional regardless of the 'douchebags' in this thread.

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Yeah someone on reddit made a good point. If she can call out the people being shitty in this thread so easily, why couldnt'/can't she just call out PDP/Notch for the shit they've said.

 

[Deleted member 888]

Yeah someone on reddit made a good point. If she can call out the people being shitty in this thread so easily, why couldnt'/can't she just call out PDP/Notch for the shit they've said.

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A valid point yes, but if you think about it, easily answerable. Because it became personal to her directly. People calling her partner into the equation, her integrity as an actor/host (implying a fraud who only cares about money) and so on. When things become personal, the average person gets far more invested and/or responsive. Especially if there is some sort of feeling of injustice or people lying about you/your family/your loved ones.

Now is this privilege? Yeah, it probably is. But as I've said in a few posts above, think about yourself and mistakes you've made. Your own ignorance or privileges in life might show your ass when not responding appropriately to other people's behaviour and how you may have handwaved them or just not said anything. You're not responsible for anyone else's behaviour, but if and when you talk about their behaviour, you have to do so honestly and with condemnation if it's deserved.

But the second someone calls your mum fat, says your partner should dump you because you're a waster, or directly states you are a lying piece of shit who simply abuses your fans trust, you probably jump out of bed in the morning to take that shit on.

It's human nature to a degree, and a fault we all have with our own egos that we need to reflect on at times. When and where we might be too lackadaisical to calling out others, versus being more consumed with defending and or handling our own personal affairs. People saying horrible shit about you isn't nice to read, especially if some of it truly is false/nonsense, news at 11.

 

[Budi]

While Greg has totally avoided doing so it's possible to be a little emotional, even when you're in the wrong, when you browse 40+ pages of men basically saying you're a piece of shit, Nazi adjacent and from a few posts ago apparently someone was saying the person you are in a relationship with deserves better. I mean jesus fucking Christ there's pointing out where someone has gone wrong and then there is degrees of character assassination to appease your own bloodlust.

If there is one thing I genuinely don't like about pockets of this community at times it's those who walk around like they are literally perfect, never lash out, never get over emotional and are also capable of taking criticism and mockery on the chin at all times. There's people around here who lose the fucking plot if you say their plastic console of choice or favourite developer has flaws. So maybe some self-reflection is needed for some in this topic too, about what they say on the internet just because they're an anonymous avatar. You can condemn someone or even mock their points without being so God damn hyperbolic and sometimes genuinely mean yourself.

Honestly, some men especially in this topic need to realize it can be a bit emotional at times reading hundreds of posts of people calling you a piece of shit and implying they know everything about your life, partner and what goes in your head. Even if you have made a mistake/need to listen and learn.

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Oh definitely, I wouldn't blame Greg or Andrea feeling that they're also being unfairly or maybe too harshly attacked in this thread by some. It's just that the issue seemed to be solving quite nicely, then she posts that on Reddit. It's disappointing, especially as she tagged Greg in the post too instead of just talking for herself. So it feels unfair for him too. But yeah, this place has quite a few people who think their shit don't stink. And some going through an apology or a statement with a microscope, to see if something could had been worded better in their opinion. Instead than processing the message on it's whole, seems really petty and just like Andrea said "damned if you do and damned if you don't". Also the dumb shit bringing up Anthem etc. on this discussion, to me it kinda shows where the priorities of those people lie. They probably aren't here calling out Greg and Andrea for the PDP/Notch discussion, they are here because they have an unrelated axe to grind so they jump on the opportunity. Don't remember who it was, but someone working on film joined the #metoo discussion when the Weinstein rape allegations came out "Yeah he's a monster, he bought and recut already great films!". Makes it seem like those people themselves don't really understand the severity and seriousness of the PDP/Notch situation, it's really not about games and Anthem or Andrea's & Greg's opinions/comments on it has fuck all to do with it.

I can answer this. Your own post above is largely conspiracy theory-level. You have no personal insight into Greg's or Andrea's timeline how they got from the gamescast to here and now. Yet that didn't stop you, or others, from crafting such narratives.

Did you know that when I signed up for the Kinda Funny forums, when Kinda Funny first started, the first thing I saw on the forum from the community manager was "If you don't agree with Greg and Colin, you can GTFO"? And I still remember the on-stream "we don't need you if you don't agree with us" generalizations from the two original hosts that were made seemingly daily. As a new community member, I didn't think that was very welcoming at all. I thought to myself "why was THIS so important to be one of the principal tenets of Kinda Funny?" That was the first and last time I signed into that forum, and didn't circle back to Kinda Funny until well after someone had departed.

I think most would agree that Kinda Funny has come a long way since those days. And if they were able to change and come far since that time, it's possible for them to go even farther. As fans of Kinda Funny, and Era members, we're asking them to on this issue.

But this is what concerns me about some of the contents of threads like this: I wonder how many more people have left this forum for good just this week, never to return, because of the way some chose to address the issue here.

This thread was intended to highlight a conversation full of uninformed insensitivity, and make a plea for better judgement. It certainly was not intended to be the "Andrea is completely terrible" thread. Yet there were enough terrible posts about Andrea in this thread to make her, or anyone, not want to come to this forum ever again. How people think that the focus should be moved away from the issue (and the concerns raised by your fellow Era members), and onto YOUR own theories of who they are and how they got here, or onto gross personal attacks just because YOU happen to know who works in the industry that is related to her, is beyond me. A few posts up from this one even suggests that a woman fake her response for a man's sake. Do you know how terrible that reads?

So yes, Andrea described some contributions to this thread as being from "big ole douchebags". You think she's wrong? Don't continue to post things that have nothing to do with the issue at hand, and/or serve to prove her right. Understand from my initial experience with Kinda Funny, and let's hope that others catch on to see that it doesn't take very much to turn people away for good.

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Thanks for this post.

 

[Era of not Yakuza]

Hey, y'all--

Andrea doesn't have an Era account and just posted this over on our subreddit. I just got to a computer this afternoon and was able to respond, she just got to hers:

Hi everyone! I apologize for the delay in responding to these comments, but it's been a hectic week to say the least. I've had time to reflect and I'd like to put forth this statement:

Earlier this week, Greg and I had a discussion on KFGD about recent news stories around Minecraft creator Notch and Youtube Content Creator PewdiePie. Some of you have expressed concern about statements we made, or didn't make, during that discussion and I think it's pertinent to follow-up with those concerns.

I've rewatched the show, and I understand the criticisms people had about our conversations. I regret that our discussion of this topic included unfounded or under-informed moments from me that sounded like they were condoning statements or posts that are hateful, racist, transphobic, anti-Semitic or bigoted.

I can see how my comments seem dismissive of a serious topic upon reflection, and I apologize. I vehemently reject any type of bigotry and those who invoke it. No amount of context explains away or justifies that behavior, and I'm sorry for implying it could. Of course it can't.

I support people of all backgrounds, genders, sexualities, races, religions - and I reject those who seek to disparage, dismiss, or discriminate against their fellow humans, that includes Notch and Pewdiepie. Greg and I appreciate the constructive criticism from those who took the time out to show us where we fell short, and we commit to demonstrating through both our words and our actions going forward that we have no sympathy for and will not make excuses for those that bring bigotry into the world through their statements, actions, or incitements.

Sincerely, Andrea Rene

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go, and from now on sin no more.
John 8:11

 

[BlackJace]

It's still kind of disappointing that we get people cherry-picking the few nuclear-hot takes and then characterizing the entire thread as "well maybe we were too mean".

I hope we're not heading towards missing the point entirely, but alas...

 

[Deleted member 1849]

What Andrea thinks of this thread:

"Yeah, a lot of them were big ole douchebags. Some people just want to watch the world burn. Like I've always said: Damned if you, damned if you don't. There is no winning sometimes. HOWEVER, Greg and I are aligned that regardless of those d-bags, we still want to engage with our communities because your voices matter to us. So we'll wade through the mud to get to the those voices because it's important to us."

And while I might somewhat agree with her that there were some awful comments in this thread, particularly early on, they were the significant minority and the fact that she feels the need to throw that in directly after her apology just kills any chance of me taking it as sincere.

Greg on the other hand, I have been massively impressed by.

 

[Tidus]

It's still kind of disappointing that we get people cherry-picking the few nuclear-hot takes and then characterizing the entire thread as "well maybe we were too mean".

I hope we're not heading towards missing the point entirely, but alas...

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I mean the two of them made a "nuclear-hot take" and everyone proceeded to call them trash and subhuman before they could even make a clarification. I mean this forum also has to be critical of itself in order to do better.

 

[Deleted member 888]

Oh definitely, I wouldn't blame Greg or Andrea feeling that they're also being unfairly or maybe too harshly attacked in this thread by some. It's just that the issue seemed to be solving quite nicely, then she posts that on Twitter. It's disappointing, especially as she tagged Greg in the post too instead of just talking for herself. So it feels unfair for him too. But yeah, this place has quite a few people who think their shit don't stink. And some going through an apology or a statement with a microscope, to see if something could had been worded better in their opinion. Instead than processing the message on it's whole, seems really petty and just like Andrea said "damned if you do and damned if you don't". Also the dumb shit bringing up Anthem etc. on this discussion, to me it kinda shows where the priorities of those people lie. They probably aren't here calling out Greg and Andrea for the PDP/Notch discussion, they are here because they have an unrelated axe to grind so they jump on the opportunity. Don't remember who it was, but someone working on film joined the #metoo discussion when the Weinstein rape allegations came out "Yeah he's a monster, he bought and recut already great films!". Makes it seem like those people themselves don't really understand the severity and seriousness of the PDP/Notch situation, it's more than just about games.

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I've got no issues in stating she's made a mistake not ignoring the drama/trolling, and I probably would even say as a personal achievement, she should have signed up here if only to walk into the lion's den and overcome it by proving to the doubters she is sorry/will listen.

But I've also got no issues saying I recognize the fragility of human beings, especially how emotional someone can get, justified or not, if multiple people are saying things about you that cut to the bone. Need I remind you again, this topic is 40+ pages. The vast majority, angry men. Not always a welcoming environment for any woman, whether they're in the wrong or not.

Also, the mistakes she's made might take just a little bit of time to seep through the brain and reflection process. Let's not forget just because someone can have a few days to read criticism and formulate a reply, doesn't mean, bam, brand new person. New clothes. New hairdo. New attitude. 24 hours later.

It can take a bit of time to truly rewire your own ego, mistakes, attitude issues and so on. A redemption arc for someone rarely begins and ends in a matter of hours. We are talking about big-name internet personalities in the gaming industry, people who probably do have bigger egos than your average person. Give anyone fame and money, and their ego tends to inflate. Not everyone, but many people. I'm not saying that to handwave or downplay the actions of a "famous person", just reminding people that being human is a hell of a drug. We all fuck up and we all battle our own egos to varying degrees.

What matters is how people reflect and progress going forward, whilst being given a reasonable fucking chance to change. And yeah, maybe Andrea is going to continue to let people down, it's up to her how she acts. Her behaviour and actions "isn't my problem" to an extent, it's her legacy and history to be in control of. But all of that being said, the words that come out of your mouth when responding to someone else is your legacy and your history. If you act like an unreasonable asshole to someone who has been an asshole themselves.... then that makes TWO assholes. It doesn't just make the person you are responding to an asshole.

Harsh criticism and condemnation aren't being an asshole, nor is some forms of satire/mockery. I'm not speaking to any Era posters who expressed some general anger, disappointment or gave long anecdotes about how PDP/Notch hurt them. I'm calling out those who need to watch how far they stray down the path of being assholes themselves, because if people truly care about wanting to see others redeem themselves, then you need to somewhat show that in how you try to get them to change.

 

[BlackJace]

I mean the two of them made a "nuclear-hot take" and everyone proceeded to call them trash and subhuman before they could even make a clarification. I mean this forum also has to be critical of itself in order to do better.

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"Everyone" did not call them subhuman trash, that's simply not true and you know that.

 

[LuisGarcia]

Greg just seems like such a decent guy and it takes so little for some in this thread to turn on him and call him a piece of shit etc . It's such a toxic and unhelpful attitude.

Obviously this is a minority but it's still uncalled for.

 

[Tidus]

"Everyone" did not call them subhuman trash, that's simply not true and you know that.

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You know what I mean, stop trying to cherry pick and understand the greater point. Okay, would it be fine if I said some people.

 

[Lukar]

What Andrea thinks of this thread:

"Yeah, a lot of them were big ole douchebags. Some people just want to watch the world burn. Like I've always said: Damned if you, damned if you don't. There is no winning sometimes. HOWEVER, Greg and I are aligned that regardless of those d-bags, we still want to engage with our communities because your voices matter to us. So we'll wade through the mud to get to the those voices because it's important to us."

And while I might somewhat agree with her that there were some awful comments in this thread, particularly early on, they were the significant minority and the fact that she feels the need to throw that in directly after her apology just kills any chance of me taking it as sincere.

Greg on the other hand, I have been massively impressed by.

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Needlessly offensive posts often stick out more than genuine ones in any given scenario; social media has proven that plenty. I agree that the former were fewer than the latter, but I also can't blame her for letting them get to her.