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Greg Miller and Andrea Rene handwave Notch and PewDiePie racist, transphobic and anti-semitic behaviour (UP: GM and AR respond; see threadmarks)

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Oct 25, 2017
4,882
The fact that her apology is quickly attracting KiA level shitheads to back her up and that doesn't appear to be alarming anyone should say a lot too.

There were at least 3 posts saying her husband should dump her because he can do so much better. We cannot excuse such comments, and especially use the same “out of context” excuse we criticized Andrea for using.
And those idiots should be banned.
 
Oct 28, 2017
11,736
I can answer this. Your own post above is largely conspiracy theory-level. You have no personal insight into Greg's or Andrea's timeline how they got from the gamescast to here and now. Yet that didn't stop you, or others, from crafting such narratives.

Did you know that when I signed up for the Kinda Funny forums, when Kinda Funny first started, the first thing I saw on the forum from the community manager was "If you don't agree with Greg and Colin, you can GTFO"? And I still remember the on-stream "we don't need you if you don't agree with us" generalizations from the two original hosts that were made seemingly daily. As a new community member, I didn't think that was very welcoming at all. I thought to myself "why was THIS so important to be one of the principal tenets of Kinda Funny?" That was the first and last time I signed into that forum, and didn't circle back to Kinda Funny until well after someone had departed.

I think most would agree that Kinda Funny has come a long way since those days. And if they were able to change and come far since that time, it's possible for them to go even farther. As fans of Kinda Funny, and Era members, we're asking them to on this issue.

But this is what concerns me about some of the contents of threads like this: I wonder how many more people have left this forum for good just this week, never to return, because of the way some chose to address the issue here.

This thread was intended to highlight a conversation full of uninformed insensitivity, and make a plea for better judgement. It certainly was not intended to be the "Andrea is completely terrible" thread. Yet there were enough terrible posts about Andrea in this thread to make her, or anyone, not want to come to this forum ever again. How people think that the focus should be moved away from the issue (and the concerns raised by your fellow Era members), and onto YOUR own theories of who they are and how they got here, or onto gross personal attacks just because YOU happen to know who works in the industry that is related to her, is beyond me. A few posts up from this one even suggests that a woman fake her response for a man's sake. Do you know how terrible that reads?

So yes, Andrea described some contributions to this thread as being from "big ole douchebags". You think she's wrong? Don't continue to post things that have nothing to do with the issue at hand, and/or serve to prove her right. Understand from my initial experience with Kinda Funny, and let's hope that others catch on to see that it doesn't take very much to turn people away for good.
My problem with your initial impression on KF and the one here is that Andrea is not innocent to the discussion. Shes not coming to this community with warning signs saying shes unwelcome or if she disagrees with us she can get out.

In fact if andrea were a new member here and said the things she did in that segment she would be banned. Unquestionably. Which is why I'm not sure I agree with you, in terms of this situation at least, that its the discussion thats keeping Andrea from coming here. Her comments about this community prior to this incident held a lot of the same disdain she is discussing in that reddit thread before this all blew up. Now maybe its because she saw other threads similar to this one and thought, I wont bother. But as others have stated, by and large the really unnecessary comments have been a rather large outlier to the productive conversation at large and no forum is insulated from those types of comments, even here where we heavily moderate shitty behavior (which is a good thing mind you).

With regards to people doubting the seriousness of her apology, I think my previous post sums up why that perception is entirely a product of her own behavior (and I hope no one is expressing this for misogynistic reasons).

And Andrea didn't say some posts were made by D bags, she was classifying them as a large part of the majority were unfair towards. Which is bullshit. I agree with her that shitty comments were made in this thread, but after an apology turning around and blaming a lot of the community here for unfairly criticizing her doesn't feel like she understands the matter at hand. Especially when she went back to the "its all drama and the internet hate mob" approach by suggesting she was dammned if she does or dammed if she doesnt. Its the same rhetoric by her that posits that the issue isn't with her comments but the actions taken by people who are speaking out against the defense of white supremacists. Again we can acknowledge shitty posts in here while also not mischaracterizing the nature of this thread as being a primarily shitty one. And further as others have stated those who are most vulnerable to the rhetoric of PDP and notch and who hear KF hand wave and defend them on their segments are going to be just as understandably upset about this as she is that a few, outlier posts were made unfairly about her. The only difference is these posters are at the brunt of that toxic rhetoric while shes free to be paid to handwave it away.

And honestly if its going to turn people away who are that dismissive of people that they hurt, because of a handful of outlier shitty posts and a lot of criticism about her ignominious behavior, I'm not sure thats not for the best to be honest.
 
Oct 25, 2017
9,160
Saenima, if you want to cut back on the rhetoric and accusations in this topic that are ungrounded, then it doesn't really help your point to imply a moderator only gives a shit about "Era losing business" before posting your "get out of jail" card which amounts to little more than "just joking".

You do realize that is precisely the issue with the posters who say shit like "Your partner can do better" then maybe try and follow up with "But I was just joking cause I'm angry".

"Minding your manners" doesn't mean refraining from expressing your emotions, it should mean not posting nonsense that does little more than to put you in a position of unjustifiable hurting someone else.

Wonderment's post was actually pretty reasonable, so I'm not entirely sure how it's going to help your disapproval of parts of that post to engage in the kinds of unhelpful rhetoric that have pages of arguing currently going on.
Most of the unhelpful rhetoric has been against the people who were rightfully appalled at the handwaving of white supremacy. This thread is chock full of tone policing, of which you have been one of the largest instigators as of late. Look at where we are after 2300 posts. This whole conversation is now on whether the minorities are being too mean to the white lady who follows and defends white supremacists. We always end up here.
 
Dec 21, 2017
7,791
I can answer this. Your own post above is largely conspiracy theory-level. You have no personal insight into Greg's or Andrea's timeline how they got from the gamescast to here and now. Yet that didn't stop you, or others, from crafting such narratives.

Did you know that when I signed up for the Kinda Funny forums, when Kinda Funny first started, the first thing I saw on the forum from the community manager was "If you don't agree with Greg and Colin, you can GTFO"? And I still remember the on-stream "we don't need you if you don't agree with us" generalizations from the two original hosts that were made seemingly daily. As a new community member, I didn't think that was very welcoming at all. I thought to myself "why was THIS so important to be one of the principal tenets of Kinda Funny?" That was the first and last time I signed into that forum, and didn't circle back to Kinda Funny until well after someone had departed.

I think most would agree that Kinda Funny has come a long way since those days. And if they were able to change and come far since that time, it's possible for them to go even farther. As fans of Kinda Funny, and Era members, we're asking them to on this issue.

But this is what concerns me about some of the contents of threads like this: I wonder how many more people have left this forum for good just this week, never to return, because of the way some chose to address the issue here.

This thread was intended to highlight a conversation full of uninformed insensitivity, and make a plea for better judgement. It certainly was not intended to be the "Andrea is completely terrible" thread. Yet there were enough terrible posts about Andrea in this thread to make her, or anyone, not want to come to this forum ever again. How people think that the focus should be moved away from the issue (and the concerns raised by your fellow Era members), and onto YOUR own theories of who they are and how they got here, or onto gross personal attacks just because YOU happen to know who works in the industry that is related to her, is beyond me. A few posts up from this one even suggests that a woman fake her response for a man's sake. Do you know how terrible that reads?

So yes, Andrea described some contributions to this thread as being from "big ole douchebags". You think she's wrong? Don't continue to post things that have nothing to do with the issue at hand, and/or serve to prove her right. Understand from my initial experience with Kinda Funny, and let's hope that others catch on to see that it doesn't take very much to turn people away for good.
I completely agree it's a terrible thing to make her , and anyone else, feel like they aren't welcome here. And she's definitely not wrong about some people being douche bags to her. If I could go back and rephrase everything I would. I wrote what I did to share my feelings and not to come off as a conspiracy theorist due to assumptions. Hopefully in the end, this entire thread just ends up doing some good as opposed to souring anything further. We got Greg and Andrea to respond to and confront what they said on Monday. That's the positive outcome that everyone wanted in the first place.
 
Oct 25, 2017
13,719
She can bash the forum all she wants. The forum is imperfect, at times uncivil, and not any one person. We should take no offense at that.
Her doing right after she apologizes just makes her seem disingenuous as fuck, though.
It's like she's trying to write this whole thing off as just some thread being toxic, and there being no real issue, other than a slight misunderstanding of whether or not she supports people being shitty.

I've been a backer since it started, and only once before did I consider stopping (a week before Colin left he was saying some ignorant ass shit on the PS show and Greg didnt say anything), and now I am again.



Yeah, those folks suck.
Her apology at the very least explicitly names PewDiePie and Notch



What comes next after that is undoubtedly pretty "petty" squabbling at Resetera, which is definitely bad timing. Greg handled not being outwardly emotional and confrontational to shitty posts on here. But without re-treading 10 or so pages of the same shit, I honestly just think some leeway can be understood why some on this community have taken a little heat.

Andrea needs to put those words above into action next, but some dudes around here also need to stop acting like some mildly defensive comments aimed at this community are some personal slight against them. You are not Resetera. You're a poster on it.

Most of the unhelpful rhetoric has been against the people who were rightfully appalled at the handwaving of white supremacy. This thread is chock full of tone policing, of which you have been one of the largest instigators as of late. Look at where we are after 2300 posts. This whole conversation is now on whether the minorities are being too mean to the white lady who follows and defends white supremacists. We always end up here.
What do you mean look where we are? We've received multiple apologies and statements which show a path to redemption seems to be getting attempted. We're now also discussing some of the fallout from all of this on our community.

But please, continue to just say everyone is tone policing and water everything down to "being mean to white lady". It looks like you are the one ignoring some of the good to come out of this.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,455
There were at least 3 posts saying her husband should dump her because he can do so much better. We cannot excuse such comments, and especially use the same “out of context” excuse we criticized Andrea for using.
What’s actually being done? Did we needed 30 posts for every one of those three behaving as if that was the general sentiment?
Most of the unhelpful rhetoric has been against the people who were rightfully appalled at the handwaving of white supremacy. This thread is chock full of tone policing, of which you have been one of the largest instigators as of late. Look at where we are after 2300 posts. This whole conversation is now on whether the minorities are being too mean to the white lady who follows and defends white supremacists. We always end up here.
Very well put. Agree with all of this.
 
Oct 28, 2017
11,736
Most of the unhelpful rhetoric has been against the people who were rightfully appalled at the handwaving of white supremacy. This thread is chock full of tone policing, of which you have been one of the largest instigators as of late. Look at where we are after 2300 posts. This whole conversation is now on whether the minorities are being too mean to the white lady who follows and defends white supremacists. We always end up here.
Thank you
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,882
What do you mean with KiA?
KiA is Kotaku in Action. A GG board on Reddit.

A lot of the replies to her apology either come from straight up KiA posters, or accounts spreading the exact same rhetoric. The kinds of comments I am referring to are things like:

To see this post, and especially Greg's slimey Resetera responses, is disheartening to say the least. Why be so fake for the sake of a small minority?....

You were both right the first time around. You didn't do or say anything wrong whatsoever.
Which 1 - completely undermines Greg's really good posts in this thread, and 2 - Defends the statements in the original video, which were fucking awful and I hope everyone here at least agrees with that much.

The above comment also went on to a soft defense of Boogie. Other comments which talk about this website and claims that Andrea and Greg are "bowing down" to people when they apologize and try and listen:

Bowing down to these people, who want nothing but an object for their melodramatic, fake hatred?
To which Andrea says "I bow to NO ONE."

Another:

I don’t blame her. Resetera is weaponized autism.
Famously banned Era member (for defending THQ posting on 8chan and posting alt-right BS), Falconbox is even in there contributing.

This kind of rhetoric is now dominating her apology on Reddit. I would ask Greg if this is the kind of community he is happy fostering, but I highly doubt it is.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
3,455
Her apology at the very least explicitly names PewDiePie and Notch



What comes next after that is undoubtedly pretty "petty" squabbling at Resetera, which is definitely bad timing. Greg handled not being outwardly emotional and confrontational to shitty posts on here. But without re-treading 10 or so pages of the same shit, I honestly just think some leeway can be understood why some on this community have taken a little heat.

Andrea needs to put those words above into action next, but some dudes around here also need to stop acting like some mildly defensive comments aimed at this community are some personal slight against them. You are not Resetera. You're a poster on it.



What do you mean look where we are? We've received multiple apologies and statements which show a path to redemption seems to be getting attempted. We're now also discussing some of the fallout from all of this on our community.

But please, continue to just say everyone is tone policing and water everything down to "being mean to white lady".
It’s not mildly offensive. When each and every topic turns into let’s bash era when three people agree on something, it’s trash and leads to an atmosphere where criticism is handwaved away with “era being era.” It should be called out. Honestly, take your own advice. Since you’re just a poster on era and not Andrea or Greg, I’m sure we won’t be getting any more pseudo-psychology about their personal motivations though.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,744
Limburg
This is kind of my thought. They have both apologized, in a acceptable way. I'm not sure what some of the people on this forum think needs to happen to appease them.

In the real world I expect people to apologize and grow from the mistakes they make, I don't know why the internet thinks it needs to hold people to a different standard.
Appease? What do you mean, to stop being critical? Why does it bother you so much that some people are critical of some other person? If you’re satisfied then leave it alone and everyone else will come around or not in their own time.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,475
On yesterday's episode of KindaFunny Games Daily, Greg Miller and Andrea Rene discuss the "Minecraft Drama", which is centered on Microsoft announcing that they were not inviting Notch to the 10 year Minecraft anniversary because of his comments and opinions. They also discussed PewDiePie shutting down his subscription campaign. What proceeded from this conversation is thorough handwaving, downplaying, and giving benefit of the doubt to two of the most well-known racists, transphobes and anti-Semites in the gaming industry:
  • Greg points out that Notch has ostracized himself with his twitter comments that included transphobic statements, heterosexual pride day, and “It’s ok to be white”.
  • Andrea suggests that Notch is willfully choosing not to partake; he doesn’t want to be there because he doesn’t do public events, not because MS axed him due to his comments. Greg points out that indeed in the press statement, MS announced they cut him and re--reads the statement. Andrea tells Greg that it’s not a fair extrapolation to make from that statement. Andrea adds that to her it would be disappointing on MS part if Notch expressed interest in wanting to be involved and MS said no thanks. She adds that MS saying “his comments and opinions do not reflect those of MS” is a disclaimer made for everyone that speaks on behalf of MS, unless they are part of the MS team.
  • Andrea refers to the transphobic and racist things notch mentions on twitter as “wacky”, and it’s really Notch putting a line in the sand saying he doesn’t want to be involved in Minecraft, and it’s just MS making themselves look good by saying “yeah, we don’t want to be involved with him anymore” and that it’s all drama.
  • Greg said he googled “why do people hate notch” and got the top bullet in this OP, and went “what, I don’t understand enough, can you give me more”. Andrea said Notch’s tweets were taken completely out of context and we don’t need to analyze his tweets right now.
On the topic of PewDiePie:
  • Greg also mentions that some of the things has done like PDP paying 2 men to hold up a sign that said “death to all jews” and using the N word on a stream is beyond his comprehension, but PDP did apologize. This was followed up with “Why does the internet got to be so complicated when people get successful?” Andrea responds “Because everyone wants to be part of the zeitgeist”, and added she’s glad PDP apologized. She then removes blame from PDP for all the racist, hateful and anti-Semitic antics he encourages and places it on his community of followers and a few degenerates.
  • Greg says because he doesn’t know notch or PDP personally, he doesn’t know what their real motivations are, but says that PDP should have closed the subscribe movement since his name is associated with it. And he’s glad he was silent on the shooting so he didn’t make the shooting about himself, absolving him of any blame.
  • Andrea says PDP gets crucified for his mistakes, his missteps, and an internet lynch mob forgetting we are all humans and make mistakes and that PDP has been a target. She said he does a lot of great work like raising money for charity and a lot of good things.
  • Greg said he’s leading with these two stories but he doesn’t know everything about the stories and histories but not that hes trying to be ignorant but because it doesn’t pertain to his normal every day life, but wants to have a convo about wtf is going on, and why this would happen, and he thinks it differences how we were all raised, not in parenting but how they come up in their careers
  • Andrea said she wants to support PDP because he’s the heart of youtube and where youtube came from. “corporations for the win I guess” (in reference to T-Series getting more subscribers than him)
  • KF subscriber describes the N word incident “on stream when someone kills him on stream by accident”. Greg wonders if that means PDP does use it. Andrea said some people were adding context on why PDP used it was that because he was Swedish and doesn’t understand the connotation of that word; She added she had heard from a lot of Europeans that they use that word - both her and greg shout “that’s bad, that’s not cool that’s not cool, you should stop that!”. She said PDP apologized for it, and he’s not gonna do it again so its ok now.
More in the video below.


As a person of color, and a very vulnerable minority (Arab American), I cannot support anyone that stands idly by and downplay the hatred Notch and PewDiePie seed into the gaming media. How do you not come down hard on people that say “it’s ok to be white” or make transphobic comments or pay 2 people to hold a sign that says death to all Jews? How? I don’t understand the train of thinking. I can no longer support Kindafunny. It’s utterly saddening to see Greg Miller not take a stand on this.

Not surprised in the least.
 
Oct 25, 2017
13,719
It’s not mildly offensive. When each and every topic turns into let’s bash era when three people agree on something, it’s trash and leads to an atmosphere where criticism is handwaved away with “era being era.” It should be called out. Honestly, your advice applies in your situation. Since you’re just a poster on era and not Andrea or Greg, I’m sure we won’t be getting any more pseudo-psychology about their personal motivations though.
I'm not waving away criticism as "era being era". You and others perceive that at times because you simply don't appear to want ANY self-reflection done on Era other than "Hey, just let the mods know". Sometimes a community likes to get together and try and hash things out as members, not just appeal to authority to handle everything by banning. I'm not saying bans aren't necessary, I'm suggesting I don't know why some people think if you're an active poster on Era and not a troll, you might be concerned at times with the image of the forum you enjoy posting on.

But I will give you the honour of your last remark, I'm treading old ground and it's probably best just to stop and wait to see what comes next.
 
OP
OP
LebGuns
Oct 25, 2017
832
What’s actually being done? Did we needed 30 posts for every one of those three behaving as if that was the general sentiment?

Very well put. Agree with all of this.
It was my understand from Andrea’s responses that she specified some were behaving like douchebags (accurate statement) not all. If she didn’t understand that the general sentiment had a real issue on hand, she wouldn’t have apologized and addressed her shortcomings.
 
Oct 30, 2017
535
Most of the unhelpful rhetoric has been against the people who were rightfully appalled at the handwaving of white supremacy. This thread is chock full of tone policing, of which you have been one of the largest instigators as of late. Look at where we are after 2300 posts. This whole conversation is now on whether the minorities are being too mean to the white lady who follows and defends white supremacists. We always end up here.

preach.
 
Oct 25, 2017
27,436
It was my understand from Andrea’s responses that she specified some were behaving like douchebags (accurate statement) not all. If she didn’t understand that the general sentiment had a real issue on hand, she wouldn’t have apologized and addressed her shortcomings.
(she didn't)
 

10k

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,824
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
So for those who aren't satisfied with the apology, what do you want Greg and Andrea to do exactly? What would stop all the vitriol in the thread? I'm just curious cause I feel like some people just want reasons to be angry at these two and won't ever be satisfied. Like being angry for the sake of being angry.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,744
Limburg
Andrea said:
I bow to NO ONE
Lol here she is framing accepting criticism as “bowing”. These are pretty much straight up the same language I hear on T_D when anyone criticises Trump rightly for hand waving neonazis. Criticism isn’t dominance or subjugation. Many of the people on here are patreon supporters of KF and pay her fucking bills. So she can drop the indignance if she wants anyone to take her apology seriously. Has anyone at this point not bumped into the occasion shitty person on forums or in a comment section? You’re a public figure with a damn internet show, grow some thicker skin.
 
Oct 25, 2017
27,436
So for those who aren't satisfied with the apology, what do you want Greg and Andrea to do exactly? What would stop all the vitriol in the thread? I'm just curious cause I feel like some people just want reasons to be angry at these two and won't ever be satisfied. Like being angry for the sake of being angry.
I'm happy with Greg. I think Andrea shouldn't be given a platform while she's still undermining her own apology and supporting white supremacists.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,455
I'm not waving away criticism as "era being era". You and others perceive that at times because you simply don't appear to want ANY self-reflection done on Era other than "Hey, just let the mods know". Sometimes a community likes to get together and try and hash things out as members, not just appeal to authority to handle everything by banning. I'm not saying bans aren't necessary, I'm suggesting I don't know why some people think if you're an active poster on Era and not a troll, you might be concerned at times with the image of the forum you enjoy posting on.

But I will give you the honour of your last remark, I'm treading old ground and it's probably best just to stop and wait to see what comes next.
Can we only self-reflect on things you consider problematic? If not, then I’m not sure what I’m doing wrong.
 
Oct 25, 2017
9,160
But please, continue to just say everyone is tone policing and water everything down to "being mean to white lady". It looks like you are the one ignoring some of the good to come out of this.
I didn't say everyone. I called you out in particular. Because that's literally all you've been doing.

When Greg made his second post, i literally said that i was happy to be proven wrong. His post shows honest reflection and willingness to learn and do better. That is a good thing that came out of this. Andrea's posts show nothing of the sort and as such will not get the same praise.

I'm sorry that you don't seem to see or understand the difference.
 

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,843
So, there's more to expand on the subject than I can just type out off the cuff, but I think evaluating this forum carries out its "cancel culture" is a complex situation that may merit discussion. I was thinking post of posting a thread on it and haven't finished writing it out.

Since the discussion is already happening here, I'll jot down some of my thoughts in no particular order to lend to it.

- Anyone from 4chan can wander onto Era and make an account. There is little that is fundamentally different between the userbases of internet forums except as defined by the forum's main topic. Things like strong moderation are necessary to steer the community in a particular direction.​
- Criticism of individuals for harmful behaviour can lose sight of its purpose and become a toxic source of entertainment, such as a freak show​
- The political axis is not a scale of good versus evil; if "our side" or any other loses sight of its values, it simply collapses into dynasticism wherein its main goal is to maintain its power by any means necessary​
- The conversation is muddled by bad actors; people who don't care about any issue or support bigotry and simply want to shut down discussions on important topics. See: low post count drivebys​
- The presence of bad actors confuses individuals into viewing any criticism as coming from a bad actor​
- Far right rhetoric often relies on spreading stereotypes of the left to the whole spectrum; for example, the term "SJW" was apparently originally meant for people who didn't care about real social justice issues and latches onto topics that affect no one, but the term has been stretched as a catch-all for anyone who speaks about any social justice issue to demean the entire effort​
- The presence of distorted criticism confuses individuals into viewing all criticism as invalid​
- Racism, homophobia, transphobia, and other forms of bigotry can demand that affected individuals, out of self-preservation, to be aggressive against those that might perpetuate those issues in​
- "Cancel culture" develops in part out of necessity and can be a valid tool; for example, #MeToo arose because the legal system has been historically weak and prosecuting sex crimes, so women benefit from a means outside the legal system with which to seek justice​
- The perpetrator is also a stakeholder in the incident, and ideally, should be able to grow from it. This isn't necessarily going to happen, and isn't even necessarily likely to happen, but the possibility should exist and be encouraged. Bigotry doesn't necessarily mean that you're black-hearted monster, and that should be kept in mind in both the defensive and the offensive. It can be something that is passively absorbed from an environment where bigoted ideas are common, it can arise out of apathy or insensitivity towards others, or it can arise out of the hostility. While hostility is what comes to mind when people think of a "racist" or "bigot", it's only one possible motivation.​

I'm sure there's more to say on it, but without going into paragraphs, that's what I've got.

EDIT: Actually, added a little bit more.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
3,407
Because people cant move on. They've both apologized but some people just want to drag them through the mud for the lulz. It's kinda sad really.
Speak for yourself, thanks.

Most of the unhelpful rhetoric has been against the people who were rightfully appalled at the handwaving of white supremacy. This thread is chock full of tone policing, of which you have been one of the largest instigators as of late. Look at where we are after 2300 posts. This whole conversation is now on whether the minorities are being too mean to the white lady who follows and defends white supremacists. We always end up here.
Make no mistake, these tone policing posters know exactly what they are doing. It's not a coincidence that every thread on these subjects ends up as a meta-discussion that leads nowhere. It's a diversion tactic and a very effective one at that.


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I think in the case of Andrea the death of her career would be sufficient. But you've hit the nail on the head. This board has become very toxic, the moderation is too lax and if not for the ignore function, this would be a very bad place.
Case in point.
 
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LebGuns
Oct 25, 2017
832
Hey, y'all--

Andrea doesn't have an Era account and just posted this over on our subreddit. I just got to a computer this afternoon and was able to respond, she just got to hers:

Hi everyone! I apologize for the delay in responding to these comments, but it’s been a hectic week to say the least. I’ve had time to reflect and I’d like to put forth this statement:

Earlier this week, Greg and I had a discussion on KFGD about recent news stories around Minecraft creator Notch and Youtube Content Creator PewdiePie. Some of you have expressed concern about statements we made, or didn’t make, during that discussion and I think it’s pertinent to follow-up with those concerns.

I’ve rewatched the show, and I understand the criticisms people had about our conversations. I regret that our discussion of this topic included unfounded or under-informed moments from me that sounded like they were condoning statements or posts that are hateful, racist, transphobic, anti-Semitic or bigoted.

I can see how my comments seem dismissive of a serious topic upon reflection, and I apologize. I vehemently reject any type of bigotry and those who invoke it. No amount of context explains away or justifies that behavior, and I’m sorry for implying it could. Of course it can’t.

I support people of all backgrounds, genders, sexualities, races, religions - and I reject those who seek to disparage, dismiss, or discriminate against their fellow humans, that includes Notch and Pewdiepie. Greg and I appreciate the constructive criticism from those who took the time out to show us where we fell short, and we commit to demonstrating through both our words and our actions going forward that we have no sympathy for and will not make excuses for those that bring bigotry into the world through their statements, actions, or incitements.

Sincerely, Andrea Rene
Sure sounds like she did, even if her follow up comments she criticized the people who were awful in the thread.
 
Oct 25, 2017
404
Most of the unhelpful rhetoric has been against the people who were rightfully appalled at the handwaving of white supremacy. This thread is chock full of tone policing, of which you have been one of the largest instigators as of late. Look at where we are after 2300 posts. This whole conversation is now on whether the minorities are being too mean to the white lady who follows and defends white supremacists. We always end up here.
100%

Honestly, my biggest take away from this is video games needs way more minority driven content. Privilege is trash and is no excuse to be uneducated when this is literally your job.
Agree.
 
Nov 3, 2017
119
User Banned (1 Week): Trolling, backseat modding, and misrepresenting other members over a series of posts
So for those who aren't satisfied with the apology, what do you want Greg and Andrea to do exactly? What would stop all the vitriol in the thread? I'm just curious cause I feel like some people just want reasons to be angry at these two and won't ever be satisfied. Like being angry for the sake of being angry.
I think in the case of Andrea the death of her career would be sufficient. But you've hit the nail on the head. This board has become very toxic, the moderation is too lax and if not for the ignore function, this would be a very bad place.
 
Oct 30, 2017
535
"Poor persecuted white person... All they did was handwave away transphobia, homophobia and white supremacy. She even apologized that YOU got offended without even showing that it humbled her. That means she is strong." *Insert leave Brittany alone gif*
 
Oct 25, 2017
11,691
Long Island
I think in the case of Andrea the death of her career would be sufficient. But you've hit the nail on the head. This board has become very toxic, the moderation is too lax and if not for the ignore function, this would be a very bad place.
At first I thought that was your opinion and I was like holy shit lol. But no you're probably right, some people want that. But that's definitely unreasonable expectations for those people.
 

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,843
For the discussion of how good Andrea's apology itself was, I don't think it was particular great, and I tried to explain why in earlier posts. I'll also tag gameovergreggy if he hasn't read them and thinks they might be valuable.

So, first off, I do hope Andrea learned from this and she doesn't hve to run into this problem again. But I'm wondering if this statement could be stronger.

Take a moment to consider the infamous phrase "I'm not a racist, but". Why is that phrase used? For one, it's because being a racist is a terrible look, and even racists are aware of it. They're perfect fine with being racist, but they don't want to receive the label because there might be negative consequences to that. Secondly, it's incredibly easy to say that you aren't a racist, or you don't condone racism, or that you don't support racism. It's so easy to say that you can say it immediately before you do the things you just said you don't do. There's no real force behind the statement.

Andrea's statement isn't exactly bad, but a lot of it is that sort of general, easy statement. If you want to avoid having a weak position on things like this, there are a few ways you can go.


One, specificity. There's a certain amount here; it's noted that there are hateful, transphobic, and anti-Semitic messages in Notch and PewDiePie's statements. But you could go into detail about what those messages are, why they are wrong, and how you had misrepresented them. The more your statement is clearly about this incident and not any other, the more you showcase that you've actually been thinking about it, those serve to showcase that there's a genuine desire to improve and correct the issue. It serves to demonstrate that the statement is there to communicate something of substance and not just there to shield you from potential fallout.

Two, provide something tangible. If you say you support a group, how? Based on this incident, is there something you're going to try to do differently to avoid the problem happening again? Is there something you're going to try to be more aware and mindful of? By stating goals and actions that are clearly realizable and not just general ideals, by showcasing that you have or are trying to develop some kind of plan, you're showing that your statement of support is not just an empty statement.


Again, I hope Andrea's sincere in having learned about this, and this statement is also sincere. But if you want to demonstrate that in a clearer way, you can build it up along those lines.
This point is worth isolating:

Did I want to just write: OF COURSE I DON’T SUPPORT PEOPLE BEING SHITTY!! You bet I did.
I know that this isn't her response but just her saying how she kind of wanted to respond, but this is never the appropriate way to go about this kind of problem.

There's no "of course" about this. It may seem obvious to you that you don't do this because you're in your own head and are free to look at your intent, but you're the only one who can do that. Other people have to look at how you act and the things you say to see who you are and what you're about.

Maybe you have good intentions and simply messed up in what you did or said. Or maybe your intentions aren't as good as you think they are, and you haven't engaged in the introspection to see what values your actions and statements actually reflect. You may have unconsciously absorbed harmful ideas or biases from your environment. We don't know what's going on, so you have to demonstrate that.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,368
So for those who aren't satisfied with the apology, what do you want Greg and Andrea to do exactly? What would stop all the vitriol in the thread? I'm just curious cause I feel like some people just want reasons to be angry at these two and won't ever be satisfied. Like being angry for the sake of being angry.
Greg's apology is fine. Andrea's apology feels fake because in the apology she says she is going to work on being better but no less than 5 minutes later she's going back on that apology in comments on reddit trying to paint herself as the victim when this wouldn't even have been an issue if she didn't try to handwave away racism and bigotry. Just a total lack of self awareness on her part. In her apology she said was going to work on being better about that stuff in the future but to do that you need to listen more and talk less. She doesn't seem interested in that so her whole apology is in question as far as I'm concerned.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,882
I’m confused - her response is threadmarked and it says “I apologize.” Have I missed something or are you feeling the apology is not genuine?
The threadmark is Greg reposting her Reddit apology. https://www.reddit.com/r/kindafunny...andrea_are_currently_getting_dragged/emd9p4j/

Most of the posters who aren't convinced, feel that way because of her other comments in there, and particularly the kinds of posts she is coddling up with. They conflict with her original (and good) apology.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,205
they both have not, only greg
This is incorrect. Andrea did apologize. Her being upset with some of the comments in this thread doesn’t invalidate her apology. Why is it so hard for people to understand that women don’t like it when people on the internet call them the c-word (among other personal insults)? It’s one thing to hold her accountable for her words, it’s another to go there. Just because Greg took his personal insults “better” doesn’t change that.
 
Oct 25, 2017
27,436
I’m confused - her response is threadmarked and it says “I apologize.” Have I missed something or are you feeling the apology is not genuine?
If English isn't your first language than I apologize for assuming it was, but simply saying "I'm sorry" isn't enough. Especially when you contradict yourself in following statements.
 
Dec 10, 2018
2,163
I’m confused - her response is threadmarked and it says “I apologize.” Have I missed something or are you feeling the apology is not genuine?
Greg's apology is fine. Andrea's apology feels fake because in the apology she says she is going to work on being better but no less than 5 minutes later she's going back on that apology in comments on reddit trying to paint herself as the victim when this wouldn't even have been an issue if she didn't try to handwave away racism and bigotry. Just a total lack of self awareness on her part. In her apology she said was going to work on being better about that stuff in the future but to do that you need to listen more and talk less. She doesn't seem interested in that so her whole apology is in question as far as I'm concerned.
Gogosux82 says it better than i could. Her apology did not seem genuine at all after her reddit posts.
 
Oct 25, 2017
27,436
This is incorrect. Andrea did apologize. Her being upset with some of the comments in this thread doesn’t invalidate her apology. Why is it so hard for people to understand that women don’t like it when people on the internet call them the c-word (among other personal insults)? It’s one thing to hold her accountable for her words, it’s another to go there. Just because Greg took his personal insults “better” doesn’t change that.
I don't consider it an apology when it places more blame on us for allegedly misrepresenting her words and then contradicts herself later on a different website.

It's three things:
1. She was actively spouting conspiracy theories to support white supremacists and transphobes unprompted. This isn't a simple "I was trying not to dive into politics and said something a little problematic".
2. Her apology is not sincere and doesn't address the actual problem. It's a textbook non-apology.
3. She contradicted her own apology on reddit.

#3 can be explained by her being upset about the dog pile. #1 and #2 cannot. #1 happened before it!

So excuse me for not pretending it's a sincere apology, or for thinking she doesn't deserve to have a platform at this point.
 
Dec 7, 2017
806
Because people cant move on. They've both apologized but some people just want to drag them through the mud for the lulz. It's kinda sad really.
Well the thread will obviously keep going if one apologize is bullshit and is clearly undermined by the apologizer’s comments on reddit.

I don’t understand why people have difficulty understanding this.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,455
Especially when after Greg's follow up most people were like "thank you, I hope that's true"
Those little goons that follow resetera around just to talk shit about it on reddit are something else. I’ve had times where I’ve had enough of era, I just take a couple of days off. Some really hold on.
 
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