Greg Miller and Andrea Rene handwave Notch and PewDiePie racist, transphobic and anti-semitic behaviour (UP: GM and AR respond; see threadmarks)

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TaySan

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Dec 10, 2018
7,931
I’m confused - her response is threadmarked and it says “I apologize.” Have I missed something or are you feeling the apology is not genuine?
Greg's apology is fine. Andrea's apology feels fake because in the apology she says she is going to work on being better but no less than 5 minutes later she's going back on that apology in comments on reddit trying to paint herself as the victim when this wouldn't even have been an issue if she didn't try to handwave away racism and bigotry. Just a total lack of self awareness on her part. In her apology she said was going to work on being better about that stuff in the future but to do that you need to listen more and talk less. She doesn't seem interested in that so her whole apology is in question as far as I'm concerned.
Gogosux82 says it better than i could. Her apology did not seem genuine at all after her reddit posts.
 

Brock Reiher

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
36,784
This is incorrect. Andrea did apologize. Her being upset with some of the comments in this thread doesn’t invalidate her apology. Why is it so hard for people to understand that women don’t like it when people on the internet call them the c-word (among other personal insults)? It’s one thing to hold her accountable for her words, it’s another to go there. Just because Greg took his personal insults “better” doesn’t change that.
I don't consider it an apology when it places more blame on us for allegedly misrepresenting her words and then contradicts herself later on a different website.

It's three things:
1. She was actively spouting conspiracy theories to support white supremacists and transphobes unprompted. This isn't a simple "I was trying not to dive into politics and said something a little problematic".
2. Her apology is not sincere and doesn't address the actual problem. It's a textbook non-apology.
3. She contradicted her own apology on reddit.

#3 can be explained by her being upset about the dog pile. #1 and #2 cannot. #1 happened before it!

So excuse me for not pretending it's a sincere apology, or for thinking she doesn't deserve to have a platform at this point.
 
Dec 7, 2017
1,175
Because people cant move on. They've both apologized but some people just want to drag them through the mud for the lulz. It's kinda sad really.
Well the thread will obviously keep going if one apologize is bullshit and is clearly undermined by the apologizer’s comments on reddit.

I don’t understand why people have difficulty understanding this.
 

Bartalome

Banned
Nov 3, 2017
144
"Poor persecuted white person... All they did was handwave away transphobia, homophobia and white supremacy. She even apologized that YOU got offended without even showing that it humbled her. That means she is strong." *Insert leave Brittany alone gif*
I dont't know...who says that?? You don't have to love the woman. I sure don't (she always seemed a bit too superficial for my taste) but this topic just seems to be...over?

She made some uniformed remarks, got found out and apologized. What is there to still be angry about? Because the tone of her apology does not meet your lofty standards? Do you realize just how extreme this is? Do we really have to absolutely obliberate everyone who is not completly morally perfect?

Why are you all so damn angry? And why waste all this energy and time on insignifiant people like this?
 

klastical

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,029
Well the thread will obviously keep going if one apologize is bullshit and is clearly undermined by the apologizer’s comments on reddit.

I don’t understand why people have difficulty understanding this.
I read her comments, what did she say that undermines her apology in your opinion? Cause shes completely right, this thread has been nothing but a hate filled circlejerk for 95% of the posts. Would you want to interact with people who are calling you a cunt? Would you want to interact with people saying you should lose your job? I doubt it.
 

Brock Reiher

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
36,784
I read her comments, what did she say that undermines her apology in your opinion? Cause shes completely right, this thread has been nothing but a hate filled circlejerk for 95% of the posts. Would you want to interact with people who are calling you a cunt? Would you want to interact with people saying you should lose your job? I doubt it.
The whole situation doesn't exist in a vacuum and she just happens to be behaving in the same way. pewdiepie does when people call him out for saying the N word or "death to all Jews".

I'm sure this is different tho.
 

Brock Reiher

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
36,784
Not enough for you maybe but let her appearances going forward be a indicator of how sorry she is.
Both the apology and the original conspiracy theories are bad enough that I'm not willing to give her the benefit of the doubt. If she changes on her own then we can start talking, but considering she went back on her non-apology quicker than Rosanne I kind of doubt it personally.
 

LuckyLinus

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Jun 1, 2018
1,280
I read her comments, what did she say that undermines her apology in your opinion? Cause shes completely right, this thread has been nothing but a hate filled circlejerk for 95% of the posts. Would you want to interact with people who are calling you a cunt? Would you want to interact with people saying you should lose your job? I doubt it.
95% of the posts being hatefull personal attacks? What?
 

Clefargle

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Oct 25, 2017
9,074
Limburg
I read her comments, what did she say that undermines her apology in your opinion? Cause shes completely right, this thread has been nothing but a hate filled circlejerk for 95% of the posts. Would you want to interact with people who are calling you a cunt? Would you want to interact with people saying you should lose your job? I doubt it.
You sure you want to throw around numbers like that? Maybe dial it back a bit because this thread has had plenty of reasoned calm critiques in the mix. 95%? Let’s not be hyperbolic m8. So some people in the thread were rude, ok, that’s wrong. But it certainly wasn’t 95% of the thread or ERA HIVEMIND(tm).
 

Renna Hazel

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,870
I'm glad to see both of them apologized because I REALLY wasn't expecting it from either of them. I'm so used to the gaming community being defensive when called out on this kind of thing. Good on them, maybe I'll check out their show since I know I wont be supporting terrible people.
 

TheGhost

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,671
Long Island
Both the apology and the original conspiracy theories are bad enough that I'm not willing to give her the benefit of the doubt. If she changes on her own then we can start talking, but considering she went back on her non-apology quicker than Rosanne I kind of doubt it personally.
Because she called out people who were acting like jerks? There was plenty of valid criticism in this thread. The people that acted, frankly like idiots will never be satisfied.
 

saenima

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,776
Make no mistake, these tone policing posters know exactly what they are doing. It's not a coincidence that every thread on these subjects ends up as a meta-discussion that leads nowhere. It's a diversion tactic and a very effective one at that.
Exactly. And after a while we can even guess which posters will come in a thread to do it before they even arrive. It's all transparent as fuck.
 

L Thammy

Spacenoid
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Oct 25, 2017
17,384
The whole situation doesn't exist in a vacuum and she just happens to be behaving in the same way. pewdiepie does when people call him out for saying the N word or "death to all Jews".

I'm sure this is different tho.
I think this is an important point as well. Andrea talked about how PewDiePie is crucified for anything he does. PewDiePie paid people to hold up a sign saying "Death to Jews" on a stream, and posted an apology video that quickly swerved from an apology to an attack against his critics where he flipped off the camera. He said his apology and then immediately shifted blame to his critics and demonstrated how he didn't actually view himself as responsible for the situation. Andrea, after sharing that same narrative, posted an apology followed by attacks against her critics.

I do think there's stuff to be criticized in this thread, but it's an easy parallel to see.
 

Bartalome

Banned
Nov 3, 2017
144
Exactly. And after a while we can even guess which posters will come in a thread to do it before they even arrive. It's all transparent as fuck.
Yeah, this is a totally normal thought process....

My god! People, I get that your country is in a bad place and I feel for you. But not everyone who is disagreeing with you is an agent of the far right scum, that is ruining your country.
 

AztecComplex

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,371
We’re still going, huh? Some of her Reddit posts are unfortunate but I thought her apology, and especially Greg’s, were very good and felt satisfied.

Did any of this was mentioned in today’s Kinda Funny Games Daily or the Gamescast?
 

Ramjag

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,418
Yeah, this is a totally normal thought process....

My god! People, I get that your country is in a bad place and I feel for you. But not everyone who is disagreeing with you is an agent of the far right scum, that is ruining your country.
You made quite a leap between what he said and what you came up with.
 

saenima

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,776
Yeah, this is a totally normal thought process....

My god! People, I get that your country is in a bad place and I feel for you. But not everyone who is disagreeing with you is an agent of the far right scum, that is ruining your country.
What is my country?

I'll give you a hint. It has a socialist government.
 

LukarWuff

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,318
We’re still going, huh? Some of her Reddit posts are unfortunate but I thought her apology, and especially Greg’s, were very good and felt satisfied.

Did any of this was mentioned in today’s Kinda Funny Games Daily or the Gamescast?
Not sure about Gamescast (it was recorded before most of Greg's posts last night), but KFGD isn't being filmed / aired for another 22 minutes from now. Greg and Tim will be on it, so it may be brought up.
 

Brock Reiher

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Oct 25, 2017
36,784
I think this is an important point as well. Andrea talked about how PewDiePie is crucified for anything he does. PewDiePie paid people to hold up a sign saying "Death to Jews" on a stream, and posted an apology video that quickly swerved from an apology to an attack against his critics where he flipped off the camera. He said his apology and then immediately shifted blame to his critics and demonstrated how he didn't actually view himself as responsible for the situation. Andrea, after sharing that same narrative, posted an apology followed by attacks against her critics.

I do think there's stuff to be criticized in this thread, but it's an easy parallel to see.
Also when Rosanne apologized and then attacked a journalist with a racist meme within the hour

I don't even think there's that much overreaction going on here honestly. Like I was harsher on Greg before he made his apology, but that was before the apology. I don't think harsh criticisms of Andrea are undeserved, outside of a few ridiculous posts. A few ridiculous posts that I haven't even seen but I assume exist because people won't stop talking about.
 

AztecComplex

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,371
I read her comments, what did she say that undermines her apology in your opinion? Cause shes completely right, this thread has been nothing but a hate filled circlejerk for 95% of the posts. Would you want to interact with people who are calling you a cunt? Would you want to interact with people saying you should lose your job? I doubt it.
So you think those assholes should just be allowed to be assholes? Strike 3 because of that? She didn't paint the whole forum as bad, that's just the way you decided to interpret it. She made it very clear it was worth it to wade through the mud to reach out to the community. She apologized, it's over unless she fucks up again in the future.
Agreed. She apologized (she even called out Notch and PDP specifically) and that’s what counts. She doesn’t have to like “us” for that apology to count.
 

TheGhost

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,671
Long Island
I believe the apology itself is insufficient in the first place. The reddit stuff is strike 3.
So you think those assholes should just be allowed to be assholes? Strike 3 because of that? She didn't paint the whole forum as bad, that's just the way you decided to interpret it. She made it very clear it was worth it to wade through the mud to reach out to the community. She apologized, it's over unless she fucks up again in the future.
 

saenima

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,776
A few ridiculous posts that I haven't even seen but I assume exist because people won't stop talking about.
After reading this i went looking for instances of the word c*** being said. These were the first two:

Man, that racist cunt and his nazi cuntery is really wacky, huh
Here's one takeaway from this to think about. Andrea has been called a cunt in this topic quite a number of times.
Need i say more?
 

Brock Reiher

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
36,784
So you think those assholes should just be allowed to be assholes? Strike 3 because of that? She didn't paint the whole forum as bad, that's just the way you decided to interpret it. She made it very clear it was worth it to wade through the mud to reach out to the community. She apologized, it's over unless she fucks up again in the future.
I don't really care about those people. It seems like a deflection tactic to focus on it so much honestly.

And again I don't think she apologized.
 

jviggy43

Member
Oct 28, 2017
17,179
I read her comments, what did she say that undermines her apology in your opinion? Cause shes completely right, this thread has been nothing but a hate filled circlejerk for 95% of the posts. Would you want to interact with people who are calling you a cunt? Would you want to interact with people saying you should lose your job? I doubt it.
This is the type of distortion that needs to be called out and its incredibly fucked up that anyone would come in here and say this thread is 95% of a hate filled circle jerk. 95% of posts are not calling her a cunt, 95% of posts are not calling for her job. Stop trying to undermine the conversation being had by turning it into something its not.
 

Strider0457

Member
Dec 27, 2017
1,702
Honestly, my biggest take away from this is video games needs way more minority driven content. Privilege is trash and is no excuse to be uneducated when this is literally your job.
Absolutely.

Most of the unhelpful rhetoric has been against the people who were rightfully appalled at the handwaving of white supremacy. This thread is chock full of tone policing, of which you have been one of the largest instigators as of late. Look at where we are after 2300 posts. This whole conversation is now on whether the minorities are being too mean to the white lady who follows and defends white supremacists. We always end up here.
Too accurate, unfortunately.
 

Deleted member 888

User requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
14,361
After reading this i went looking for instances of the word c*** being said. These were the first two:

Need i say more?
I was going off what someone else said, but fair enough if you've gone through every page and people weren't using multiple uses of the C word I'll retract that statement and apologise. I still think the overall post was an okay exchange with someone highlighting how I admit I see a difference between angry people expressing themselves and when that tips into personalized insults/abuse.

There are still other examples of people being out of line, specifically the comments on her partner.

I'm giving you this response to apologise for stating the C-word had been used, but I'm not carrying on anymore tit for tat with you. As I said I'll simply wait now and see what comes next, as in, giving both of them some time to put their apologies into action.
 

Nauren

Member
Oct 30, 2017
718
Why are you all so damn angry? And why waste all this energy and time on insignifiant people like this?
So says the person responding in a forum to everyone he/she disagrees with.

As to why I'm angry? I grew up in an area that is not too friendly to any of the minority groups she handwaved and I've seen first hand what handwaving actually does.

As for what apology I'd accept. That's simple. A real one. Don't be disingenuous equating a humble apology to bowing down. Apologize to everyone, not just people who didn't ridicule you (which I'm willing to be consisted of the people affected by this banter).
 

Peter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,721
I don't consider it an apology when it places more blame on us for allegedly misrepresenting her words and then contradicts herself later on a different website.

It's three things:
1. She was actively spouting conspiracy theories to support white supremacists and transphobes unprompted. This isn't a simple "I was trying not to dive into politics and said something a little problematic".
2. Her apology is not sincere and doesn't address the actual problem. It's a textbook non-apology.
3. She contradicted her own apology on reddit.

#3 can be explained by her being upset about the dog pile. #1 and #2 cannot. #1 happened before it!

So excuse me for not pretending it's a sincere apology, or for thinking she doesn't deserve to have a platform at this point.
Can you point out where she contradicted her own apology? Because saying “I didn’t make this statement for the assholes in that thread” and calling some of the people in this thread douche bags doesn’t contradict her apology. She made it clear that she still wanted to apologize regardless of that. Making comments about how some people here were assholes doesn’t make her apology invalid. The PR person in me says it would be better left unsaid, but they don't contradict each other.

#1 is a weird thing to bring up as something that invalidates her apology because isn’t that the whole point of the apology? To apologize for coming across that way after reflecting on what she said?

At the end of the day BOTH Andrea and Greg apologized, and BOTH of them denounced hate and bigotry. I'm not really into the internet politics of whether or not an apology is good enough so this will probably be my last comment in this thread. I have spent far too much time arguing about something I don't really care about. The only thing people are really debating anymore is whether or not it was ok to say some pretty mean things about Andrea and whether or not she should just suck it up and take it with a smile.

It's good that they were held accountable and it's good that they both addressed the situation.
 
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TheGhost

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,671
Long Island
I don't really care about those people. It seems like a deflection tactic to focus on it so much honestly.

And again I don't think she apologized.
You care enough about them that AR's comments about them gave her a third strike from you.

Yes....a deflection tactic because now after the dust has settled and looking back, some people's behavior was straight up embarrassing. It's not deflection it's more like "hey can we not do that in the future" talk. That 25% needs to see how the remaining 75% are voicing their concerns with out sounding like jerks.
 

Arcade55

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,625
Appease? What do you mean, to stop being critical? Why does it bother you so much that some people are critical of some other person? If you’re satisfied then leave it alone and everyone else will come around or not in their own time.
I'm not bothered that people are critical of them. What they said during the KFG broadcast was definitely in need of criticism. What I mean by appease is at what do these two need to do in order to make amends for what they said? They have apologized. They have promised to do better going forward (to early to tell if they actually do this part). Do you want them fired from their jobs? I just don't get what more people expect from them at this point. All the people still attacking them, what is the end game there? What is your goal beyond what has already occurred?

Do we hold a grudge forever? At what point is it time to accept the apology and allow them to prove their intent with action...
 

Brock Reiher

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
36,784
You care enough about them that AR's comments about them gave her a third strike from you.

Yes....a deflection tactic because now after the dust has settled and looking back, some people's behavior was straight up embarrassing. It's not deflection it's more like "hey can we not do that in the future" talk.
I don't think the dust has settled. I've seen a lot of fake apologies in my days and that is one of them.

So it feels like a deflection to me because it's premature and some people are insisting we only talk about that. Whenever you mention how insincere her apology was people say "but what about the hypothetical people who were unfairly rude to her? do you condemn them as well?"

I'm so tired
 

jviggy43

Member
Oct 28, 2017
17,179
I'm not bothered that people are critical of them. What they said during the KFG broadcast was definitely in need of criticism. What I mean by appease is at what do these two need to do in order to make amends for what they said? They have apologized. They have promised to do better going forward (to early to tell if they actually do this part). Do you want them fired from their jobs? I just don't get what more people expect from them at this point. All the people still attacking them, what is the end game there? What is your goal beyond what has already occurred?

Do we hold a grudge forever? At what point is it time to accept the apology and allow them to prove their intent with action...
I havent seen a single person take issue with Greg after acknowledging his apology. And before we were aware of the reddit posts almost everyone was cool with andrea as well. People acting like others are being unreasonable or will never be happy are fundamentally distorting the discussion here
 

TheGhost

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,671
Long Island
I don't think the dust has settled. I've seen a lot of fake apologies in my days and that is one of them.

So it feels like a deflection to me because it's premature and some people are insisting we only talk about that. Whenever you mention how insincere her apology was people say "but what about the hypothetical people who were unfairly rude to her? do you condemn them as well?"

I'm so tired
Fair enough, I think we are just looking at this differently but I respect your opinion.
 
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