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Greg Miller responds
  • gameovergreggy

    Verified
    Oct 25, 2017
    136
    San Francisco, CA
    As a person of color, and a very vulnerable minority (Arab American), I cannot support anyone that stands idly by and downplay the hatred Notch and PewDiePie seed into the gaming media. How do you not come down hard on people that say "it's ok to be white" or make transphobic comments or pay 2 people to hold a sign that says death to all Jews? How? I don't understand the train of thinking. I can no longer support Kindafunny. It's utterly saddening to see Greg Miller not take a stand on this.
    Hey, LebGuns--

    I'm sorry that you walked away from this episode thinking that I didn't take a stand on this. I'd hope that my past efforts on all of these issues would speak to my stance on them, but if they haven't, let me be clear: fuck being a bigot.

    In the episode, I say never say the N-word, I say that Notch seems like an asshole, and I echo the message I've said on so many shows of "be better to each other." If that wasn't clear, I missed the mark and failed at being the man I want to be. End of story.

    The conversation I was trying to have Monday wasn't "Why does the internet got to be so complicated when people get successful?" in regards to people who use the n-word. Fuck that. That's simple. It was more "How is this a lesson people have to learn in 2019?"

    But again, that didn't ring true to you. I'm sorry.

    I hope you know how much your comments mean to me. That goes for everyone here. Please, don't hesitate to tag me in posts about my content or ask me questions online. Talking to you is what my career is based on -- it's why I used You're Wrong (the live submission section of Kinda Funny Games Daily) in this episode to get the input from viewers about the side of the story I was missing.

    I don't know it all. I try not to act like I know it all, but I don't mean for that to come off as if I don't care about or shrug at bigotry.
    Greg
     
    Transcription of the Notch conversation (first part)
  • jviggy43

    Banned
    Oct 28, 2017
    18,184
    So i transcribed the first part of the conversation about notch. Its late so I'll do the second half tomorrow but I really dont want people trying to act like this wasnt a soft defense for notch here.

    5:23

    G"number one on the report, Notch is not invited to the Minecraft anniversary. This is from Brian Chris Shantay over at variety who writes "Minecraft creator Markus notch"-is that a person that's a person right? –"who sold the title to Microsoft for 2.5 billions dollars in 2014 wont be part 0f the 10 year anniversary plans for the game because of his quote "comments and opinions" Microsoft tell variety. Quote "his comments and opinions do not reflect those of Microsoft or mo yang and are not representative of Minecraft" a Microsoft spokesperson told variety. A spokesperson also noted that knotch hasn't been involved with Minecraft since he sold the studio and rights to the game in 2014.

    Notch, once an involved member of the video game development community has increasingly ostracized himself with his Twitter comments including transphobic statements and comments about heterosexual pride day and that quote "its ok to be white". Notch has about 3.7 million followers on Twitter. Uhhmmm Andrea how do you feel about this?

    A: This is not shocking at all

    G: No

    A: quite frankly I don't know why its news. He hasn't been involved in Minecraft since he sold it right?

    G Well this is because theyre doing this anniversary thing right? This anniversary celebration right? That is some event that's gonna have, talk about the past present and future of Minecraft. I think THAT'S where it comes down to maybe uh and that's something that maybe everyones missed out on, everyones reporting on this now it was Christian at variety had an exclusive to being with. I think that that's where it stems from the fact that, cool, so the creator of it isn't involved with this 10 year celebration right and is that ok? Is that the way it should be and how does that go? And obviously youre Microsoft you own it, how do you want the brand to be recognized?

    A: its certainly not the way it should be, it should be that notch was continuing to stay invested in his community and the thing that built his wealth to what it is and that he would appreciate the amazing support that players all over the world have given support to the thing that he created with you know the team at muang but that's just not the way he has been.

    G: Sure

    A: and so I think its not surprising that this is the way it is, its just disappointing and a little bit sad and what in one sense but should he be involved or like does he need to be? Absolutely not cur I think that individual creators and players of Minecraft, the millions of millions of people around the world have been paying for a decade or whatever

    G: yeah

    A: Have really embodied what Minecraft is and its not just on notch. Obviously he will always forever hold a place in minecrafts history but

    G: yeah he shouldn't ever be erased from the record books right?

    A: no of course not, never. I'm not suggesting that at all

    G:oh no I wasn't saying that you were

    A: but I'm just saying you can have a ten year anniversary celebration without him if he is willfully choosing to not partake. Its just a bummer you know?

    G: Sure. And so you say hes willfully-hes participating not to or hes choosing not to be apart of it because of the way hes acting online

    A: I imagine that he just doesn't want to be, he just doesn't want to be there-

    G: well no this is

    A: he doesn't do public speaking engagements, he doesn't do like autograph sessions, he doesn't do con appearances or panels or literally anything he stays out of the public spotlight

    G: sure but I think the story here is Microsfots not letting, wont even have him. That's whats happening right? Is that, my

    A: hmm

    G: let me reread it right? But uh "notch wont be part of the 10 year Minecraft anniversary celebration plans for the game because-

    A: is that what youre getting from that statement?

    G: yeah because of his comments and opinions quote "his comments and opinions do not reflect those of Microsoft and moyang and are not representative of Minecraft.

    A: so you think the story here is theyre actively saying

    G: the story here is saying Minecraft is saying youre not allowed, were not inviting him hes not part of this

    A: hmm I don't know

    G: similar to how they made headlines a couple weeks ago maybe a couple months ago but now where one of the loading screens got updated to take out a reference to him because they always have the funny little things when you load up Minecraft

    A: I don't know if that's a fair extrapolation to make

    G: really?

    A; I don't because MS is a gigantic global corporation it in their legal interests to say that they don't, their individual creators comments opinions don't reflect that of the company at large

    G: sure

    A: I don't know if that is equal to them saying we don't want you here

    G: hmm I would I-

    A; I would honestly be pretty surprised if notch had expressed an interest in wanting to be involved and MS said no thanks. That to me would be disappointing on Microsofts part.

    G: ok. Because yeah what im getting from this is is, the lead from, Brendan Sinclair over at games industry dot biz, MS is continuing to distance themselves from notch the minecrafter creator who sold the franchise yadda yadda-variety has received confirmation from MS that it wont involve at a moyang event in May intended to mark the game's 10th anniversary. So if Im reverse engineering this correctly, the way I see it is the thing got announced the 10th anniversary, Brian reached out to them and was like I didn't see notch on this and theyre like were not working with notch, we wont- his comments and opinions do not reflect Microsoft of Minecraft

    A; Its pr speak I wish they would just

    G: well sure it says hes a loose cannon who says all this crazy fucking shit

    A: I wish they would just come out and say we will no longer be working with notch instead of this pr speak of "his comments and opinions do not reflect those of MS. Obviously they don't they make that disclaimer for anyone that speaks on behalf of MS (laughs)

    G: sure

    A: unless theyre intentionally a representative of MS from the communications team right?

    G: right well I think they go out of their in the Cresente piece to say that again right? " the spokesperson also said that notch hasn't been involved with Minecraft since he sold the studio and the right to the game in 2014.

    A: yeah that's true

    G; I think that's what it is just coming back to is that it, MS is very clear Notch is not part of this and in this point its doing that as well. Its just weird this time around that because it is hey it's the 10th anniversary youre doing this event celebrating the past of it

    A: mhmm

    G: are you going to have their creator there? No were not because he says weird ass horrible mean shit on twitter all the time

    A:its yeah lets just take it back not to say that that's not true cause he does say some really wacky stuff. I think that it still comes down to notch putting, drawing the line in the sane a long time ago, years ago, saying I just don't want to be involved with them anymore. Hes said as much publicly that hes like Im done with Minecraft, so.

    G: sure. Interesting

    A: I guess that it makes MS look good if theyre like "yeah we don't want to be involved with him anymore"

    G: sure

    A: its like the whole thing just feels like drama

    G: well I feel like just because he got approached right?

    A: insert my drama gif here laughs

    G: well im sure MS would prefer not to have any reason-

    A: yeah

    G: to talk about this. Im sure cresescentin looking at this and going " wait 10th anniversary is notch gonna be there?

    A: and well and now were talking about it (laughs)

    G: and well that's the thing though right that's how the video game news right yeah exactly. Don't get me wrong-

    A: we don't get enough hot gossip Greg

    G: MS was definitely prepared for this question and

    A: of course they are

    G: and here they are taking a stance-his comments and opinion do not reflect those in-I mean that is them saying his transphobic homophobic bullshit that he said before itsnt going to be tolerated for us

    A: good

    G: and that is starting the conversation again tho of and-I haven't even seen this take but Im sure this take exists which is that right, like how does that work and I think that is the company MS is trying to build for the gaming community, most of us are trying to build, that makes sense. That yeah you know freedom of speech whatever youre allowed to go say whatever fucking

    A: true

    G: horrible shit you wanna say on the internet but theres gonna be ramifications and that's not how youre protected if that's how it happens right?

    A; yeah you know Im with you 100% there, there should be ramifications for sure, I just don't think there are here because notch doesn't give a fuck (laughs)

    G: sure that's what, yeah I know right? But

    A: its like oh cool youre not inviting the guy who didn't want to go (laughs)

    G: I wanna check if he actually said anything yet since these stories started popping

    A; yeah worth looking it up for sure

    G: nah doesn't look like it

    A: but this is like yeah, sure, ok.

    (both laugh)

    G: youre just like yeah sure whatever?

    A: MS is not inviting notch because he doesn't want to go and they don't want him there looks like everyones happy

    G: Sure but I think its gonna be interesting is, yeah youre right whatever, everyones happy on it it I guess but

    A: except for Brian Crescente, whose really upset (laughs)

    G: Well you kidding me hes in love with this? Crescente right now, everyone talking about his article? That's what you want when you write these pieces. And when you get this thing that now everyone has to pick up and everyone has to come to him because they have to source and pay for it. Its just the question of, yeah, now that-youre right lets say that, you've said, notch doesn't like doing this shit to begin with you who fucking cares, but now that theyre like now were not inviting notch because hes a dick on twitter for all its, lets read between the lines right? Hes says horrible things

    A: this is MS just trying to look good I guess? Idk? Take a stand? I think its important that large companies vocalize their tolerance or lack of tolerance for certain behaviors of people that are associated with their brand because

    G: Sure

    A: because theres not enough brands I think that take a stand because theyre afraid-

    G: everyone wants to be wishy washy-everyone wants to try and be as mainstream as possible and not take stands

    A: yeah they don't want to rock the boat or upset business as the bottom line right?

    G: right

    A: but I don't think that their statements are particularly controversial, like oh cool youre not inviting notch. Alright?

    G: but but its controversial

    A; no greg Im not letting (inaudible)

    G: (sarcastically) don't you understand how the internet works now? Us vs them, right vs left, sjws vs, bad people? I don't know what the other of that one is

    A: alt right

    G: oh yeah alt right but that's how its gotta be everybodys gotta be mad about something andrea

    A: ok Im not gonna get mad today tho greg

    Ramble on game of thrones
     
    The key issue
  • Razorrin

    Member
    Nov 7, 2017
    5,236
    the HELP Menu.
    While I understand that for a lot of you, these people don't deserve some of the scorn they are receiving in this thread, The fact is, this is Bigger then just Videogames.

    You can be upset at how aggressive the rhetoric towards them is, just as much as Others can be upset about how little they care about normalizing dangerous people.

    If you really are fans of their content, and fans of them as people, you owe it to yourselves and to them to Stop defending their Ambivalent behaviour, and hold them to a higher standard. People in their position set a Dangerous Precedent treating people enabling shootings like PewDiePie with kids gloves, and they should be politely and consistently held responsible until they are aware of the Responsibility they hold in their position.

    Also, recognize why people get so mad they stop being polite when talking about this issue as For many people now, Especially after the things these two have said or done, this is much more then two videogame entertainers being uncritical about newsworthy individuals in their industry. Most people, Hell, ALL PEOPLE have a lot to lose letting these kinds of hateful people off the hook, and most are treating this the right way, as Unacceptable.

    Please be more critical of people you enjoy watching or listening to on the internet. If you truly love and respect them as people, Be willing to Recognize when they've done wrong, and be supportive of them for trying to correct it. Playing Defense for internet celebrities isn't going to convince anybody that doesn't care about them, and it's sure as shit isn't going to help them improve and recognize their mistakes.

    If they Double Down, and are unwilling to see their behaviour as unacceptable, You only owe it to yourself for providing a tiny piece of the shield that lets them think that way. If they have nothing to lose being uncritical of Massive Issues, they will Continue to be uncritical of Massive Issues, Period. Nobody should be thought to be above this kind of deflection, because for all intents and purposes, the most powerful or influential people never have to.

    If you care about Kinda Funny, Please let them know responsibly how this isn't okay. And try not to get too bent out of shape when people are understandably Angry about downplaying some of the most influential people in Games being Massively Problematic.
     
    Further response from Greg Miller
  • gameovergreggy

    Verified
    Oct 25, 2017
    136
    San Francisco, CA
    Hey, everyone--

    Sorry for not making it back yesterday. This is the first time I've sat at a computer since posting Tuesday night.

    Someone pointed out above that the discussion is anchored to Era, so I could probably just leave and never come back. That's not my way. All I have is my authenticity. I don't mind talking and learning.

    Thank you for continuing the conversation here. There are a lot of posts here that really help me out, and I think shine a light on what went wrong Monday because, believe it or not, we agree: fuck bigots and racists.

    Where we got off track Monday on the show comes down to "privilege." Many of you have echoed the same thought on here that's basically "How the fuck can Greg NOT know all this shit about PDP/Notch." The answer is pretty simple: when you say dumb shit on the Internet and you're just on the peripheral of my world (another influencer/some retired dev), I go "Well, you're dumb" and ignore you.

    That's privilege.

    I haven't had to fight for my rights, my identity, or my life. I identify my job as keeping Kinda Funny going, critiquing games, and keeping up with gaming news when it comes to titles/developers/etc. As such, it's easy to not click on Julia Alexander's headlines about YouTube personalities fucking up and keep looking for info on Game Pass.

    That's privilege, and frankly, it's not one I've had to think about until this week.

    If you watch Kinda Funny, you know that I preach "be better to each other," but beyond my one on one interactions, I'm still trying to figure out what that means. 2018 saw me acknowledge that I have a platform and that I need to be better about using it. I brought on smaller creators and tried to highlight minority voices.

    To me, everything we're talking about is another aspect of that, and it's one that I need to learn. Monday saw me try to get a handle on two stories that intersected with *my* gaming world and the world I've seen headlines about but haven't focused on. That's not OK. My responsibilities are greater than that.

    I gotta go record the Gamescast, but after that, I'll pop back in to respond to some more comments.
    Greg
     
    Andrea’s response
  • gameovergreggy

    Verified
    Oct 25, 2017
    136
    San Francisco, CA
    Hey, y'all--

    Andrea doesn't have an Era account and just posted this over on our subreddit. I just got to a computer this afternoon and was able to respond, she just got to hers:

    Hi everyone! I apologize for the delay in responding to these comments, but it's been a hectic week to say the least. I've had time to reflect and I'd like to put forth this statement:

    Earlier this week, Greg and I had a discussion on KFGD about recent news stories around Minecraft creator Notch and Youtube Content Creator PewdiePie. Some of you have expressed concern about statements we made, or didn't make, during that discussion and I think it's pertinent to follow-up with those concerns.

    I've rewatched the show, and I understand the criticisms people had about our conversations. I regret that our discussion of this topic included unfounded or under-informed moments from me that sounded like they were condoning statements or posts that are hateful, racist, transphobic, anti-Semitic or bigoted.

    I can see how my comments seem dismissive of a serious topic upon reflection, and I apologize. I vehemently reject any type of bigotry and those who invoke it. No amount of context explains away or justifies that behavior, and I'm sorry for implying it could. Of course it can't.

    I support people of all backgrounds, genders, sexualities, races, religions - and I reject those who seek to disparage, dismiss, or discriminate against their fellow humans, that includes Notch and Pewdiepie. Greg and I appreciate the constructive criticism from those who took the time out to show us where we fell short, and we commit to demonstrating through both our words and our actions going forward that we have no sympathy for and will not make excuses for those that bring bigotry into the world through their statements, actions, or incitements.

    Sincerely, Andrea Rene
     
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