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ZhugeEX

Senior Analyst at Niko Partners
Verified
Oct 24, 2017
3,099
Wanted to make a thread to note a few things.

The main point of this thread is to show how Sony, in this case, has seen network sales as the main driver of growth this generation. Of course hardware, physical software and accessories have been extremely strong this generation, but the huge growth in both revenues and profits is pretty much thanks to network sales.

Digital sales have been on an upward trend this generation as consumers find value in digital purchases such as subscription services, digital games and add on content. PlayStation Plus as a value added service has grown from a few million members before the launch of PlayStation 4 to over 31.5 million paying members as of December 31st 2017. This means that approximately 43% of PlayStation 4's sold have a PS Plus account tied to it. PS Plus has been a huge revenue driver for Sony this gen.

However, it's not just PS Plus that has caused the increase in network sales. There are over 70 million active PSN users that are spending on full game downloads and going digital this generation. Some games such as Destiny 2 are seeing over 50% of their sales from digital stores and many are willing to spend on higher priced digital editions that come with a season pass or additional bonuses. Constant sales are driving digital downloads too. In fact, Sony recently noted that the PlayStation Store is the largest distribution channel for PS4 games, bigger than any other distribution channel.

The final point is that publishers this generation have focused on the games as a service model. Whether it's FIFA Ultimate Team, loot boxes in Overwatch, story content for The Witcher 3 or Assassin's Creed Origins, there are plenty of ways to spend on games after you've purchased them. Social gaming also plays a big role here with online multiplayer. All this spending is done through the PlayStation Store. Sony receives a 30% cut of any transaction via the PlayStation Store. This is an extremely high margin segment too which means an increase in PSN revenue means profit will also rise in a similar manner.

Essentially, hardware sales have low margin. Software and Services is where all the actual money (read: profit) comes from these days. Hence why all three platform holders are investing in a robust digital ecosystem. Microsoft and Sony of course being ahead of the game here.

Here is a look at annual revenue generated by PSN. The total for 2017 was $8.4 billion in US Dollars. This should grow to $10 billion in 2018.

upload_2018-2-2_13-57-36.png



This chart shows the above, but by fiscal quarter. I also added in Nintendo digital ecosystem revenue to really show how far ahead of the game PSN is these days. It also shows the opportunity Nintendo has on digital this gen with Switch and its paid online service.

upload_2018-2-2_13-58-52.png


As above, This has led to strong profits. The below shows how Sony has effectively broken the cyclical pattern of its games division. It used to be that there would be a large investment in console hardware upfront (See 1995, 2000 and 2006) followed by a few years of growth and then a dip as software and hardware sales dropped off and investment in the next gen started. With a strong focus on network services, both Sony and Microsoft are seeing continued growth over the entire course of the generation and higher profits. (Bonus points if you can guess when the PS3 launched).

TONab0h.png


Maybe they can reinvest some of that money in better download speeds and PSN name change now....
 
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Ahasverus

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,599
Colombia
No surprise here, they offer a solid product and their sales have put physical stores to shame more often than not. All in all they've been well managed so far.

Now, I find $60 online paywall a lot, specially in this day an age when GAAS means most games will be incomplete if not unplayable without online access. That 43% would be higher if the price was lower imo.
 

Wollan

Mostly Positive
Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,814
Norway but living in France
Made the switch to be fully digital this generation. Much thanks to the streamlined PS4 OS & secondary always-on ARM chip making things way more convenient.
- Install times (on PS4) are mere seconds.
- Games can be played with only part of the download finished.
- Pre-loading games days head of release.
- System asynchronously downloading & updating every aspect 24/7 no matter if main hardware is turned off.
- No more disc fiddling. No more risk of delayed physical deliveries.
- Digital prices have become much more competitive on consoles in the last two years.
 

Soony Xbone Uhh

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,156
$10bn + business next year and likely as big as Microsoft's whole gaming business.

A % share chart for Network and whole Gaming would be great, too.
 

Trago

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,605
The importance of digital means that they have no choice but to support bc in the PS5.
 

walriii314

Member
Oct 28, 2017
344
How much is 200,000 million yen? Am i reading that correctly, Gamespot says that Sony only took in a profit 2 million of PS this quarter?? With all the sales and network money they take in? Is this the reason why Kaz is stepping down?
 
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Bishop89

What Are Ya' Selling?
Member
Oct 25, 2017
34,616
Melbourne, Australia
I think they would shoot themselves in the foot if the ps5 isn't backward compatible.

Sony need to ensure that they have the one ecosystem where you buy a game once through the store and you'll be able to play it on the newer console.

Ive bought countless digital games because in most cases they are cheaper than retail, and to add to that, with Ps plus you get additional discounts. If you buy a lot of games through the online store, Ps plus pays for itself which is a good reason to subscribe to it.
 

NattyBo

Member
Dec 29, 2017
4,316
Washington, DC
I'm mostly digital this generation. Got a 2TB HDD in the PS4Pro and a 1TB in my OG PS4. It's just so easy with preloading and my internet speeds download games in the blink of an eye.
 
OP
OP
ZhugeEX

ZhugeEX

Senior Analyst at Niko Partners
Verified
Oct 24, 2017
3,099
$
A % share chart for Network and whole Gaming would be great, too.

Network services accounted for around 52% of Sony's gaming revenue in 2017. 34% was Hardware, the remaining 14% is Packaged Software sales and accessories.

So network services is already the largest segment. But as you know, margins are significantly higher on the network side than the hardware side. So network services will account for the overwhelming majority of profit.

How much is 200,000 million yen? Am i reading that correctly?

Approx $1.8bn on current exchange rates.
 

Mechaplum

Enlightened
Member
Oct 26, 2017
18,819
JP
Convenience and social trumps all. As someone who has been developing mobile apps since 2010 this is very familiar ground.
 

Y2Kev

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,863
I am surprised people buy that much NEW via PSN store. It's so overpriced relative to what you can get at retail. That's what I struggle with. I'm ready to move on from collecting but I get a 20% discount from two different retailers. It's like...I can't make the math work.

For sales on older games, fine, but I doubt me buying The Order 1886 at $5.99 really moves the needle.
 

walriii314

Member
Oct 28, 2017
344
Network services accounted for around 52% of Sony's gaming revenue in 2017. 34% was Hardware, the remaining 14% is Packaged Software sales and accessories.

So network services is already the largest segment. But as you know, margins are significantly higher on the network side than the hardware side. So network services will account for the overwhelming majority of profit.



Approx $1.8bn on current exchange rates.
Ok that makes more sense, ignore my edit about gamespot,probably a typo
 

lynux3

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
569
Now imagine if Sony would increase that PSN revenue even further by expanding the platform beyond their consoles.

Isn't that already the case, though? PSN is multiple services... PlayStation Now, PlayStation Video, PlayStation Vue, etc. These are all services beyond their console platforms and can be played without a PlayStation.
 
OP
OP
ZhugeEX

ZhugeEX

Senior Analyst at Niko Partners
Verified
Oct 24, 2017
3,099
I am surprised people buy that much NEW via PSN store. It's so overpriced relative to what you can get at retail. That's what I struggle with. I'm ready to move on from collecting but I get a 20% discount from two different retailers. It's like...I can't make the math work.

For sales on older games, fine, but I doubt me buying The Order 1886 at $5.99 really moves the needle.

It's really interesting seeing how day 1 sales for some games are literally the $80 digital edition with the game + season pass.

It seems those spending on digital, on day 1 at least, are more than happy to go for the more expensive edition that comes with everything packed in.
 

Ricky_R

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
3,997
Gaming has become such a behemoth of an industry and many gamers going digital is only helping.
 

Zappy

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
3,738
I am surprised people buy that much NEW via PSN store. It's so overpriced relative to what you can get at retail. That's what I struggle with. I'm ready to move on from collecting but I get a 20% discount from two different retailers. It's like...I can't make the math work.

For sales on older games, fine, but I doubt me buying The Order 1886 at $5.99 really moves the needle.

I've been all digital for ages.

You can beat the prices somewhat by taking little holidays for favourable exchange rates! Though this is easier on Xbox than PS.

Factor that in with gamesharing on Xbox and all digital is basically a financial no brainer for most on that console.

And PS isn't far behind being there.

Factor in that it costs me quite a bit in fuel to get to my nearest stockist...unless my local supermarket has the game...they only stock really major titles.
 
Oct 25, 2017
11,039
Crazy.

Im surprised people don't care that they can't sell their games with digital.

Thought that would be a big roadblock. I guess not.

I wonder what would happen if Sony introduced refunds for games you played like steam does.
Would digital go up or down?
I personally would take more chances with digital games.
 

Deleted member 37739

User requested account closure
Banned
Jan 8, 2018
908
Yup, this is an often-overlooked reality when discussing the current health of the console market and relative success of certain platforms. Digitial is so much more important than the general gaming community is aware.
 

Sidewinder

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,189
The importance of digital means that they have no choice but to support bc in the PS5.

Yeah, if they fuck this up they'll be in for a rude awakening, cause MS will be there day 1 with 100% BC.

But I'm a believer in the 3rd gen curse, so PS5 should do just fine...PS6 though!!1 Just hope they won't forget about disc based BC.
 

Nostradamus

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,280
People are moving to digital themselves with no real incentive from platform holders. Sony gets to be the good guy that fully supports retail and actually charges equally or more for a digital purchase while making huge profits.
 
Oct 30, 2017
1,600
Made the switch to be fully digital this generation. Much thanks to the streamlined PS4 OS & secondary always-on ARM chip making things way more convenient.
- Install times (on PS4) are mere seconds.
- Games can be played with only part of the download finished.
- Pre-loading games days head of release.
- System asynchronously downloading & updating every aspect 24/7 no matter if main hardware is turned off.
- No more disc fiddling. No more risk of delayed physical deliveries.
- Digital prices have become much more competitive on consoles in the last two years.

No nice boxes ;(
 

Razgriz417

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,110
Yeah in my circle of friends, we're in our late 20s and 1/2 of them have decided they don't mind spending significantly more on digital than retail just for convenience. Like in the case of MHW, I was able to secure ~$40 preorders for the physical version and I had friends tell me that they'd rather buy it off psn for an extra $20 just to keep from having to switch discs.
 

IvorB

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,995
"Value added service"? Do you mean the fee I have to pay to access the online functionality of my games? Not surprising it's doing well being an all but mandatory extra charge for most of the games people buy.
 

Shock32

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,678
It has to be. They'd be handing MS a huge advantage if it doesn't.There is no way PS5 won't play PS4 games.
That's my one hold up on 100% digital. If I know ps5 is full bc I'm all in.

Now, I think buying digital is so easy I've had to slow myself down. When the PS4 launched I was grabbing games left and right, I wonder if a lot of people do this just because of the convenience? The back logs grow and Sony is making bank. Win win if the games keep coming so will the money.
 

Derrick01

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,289
The all digital crowd will always confuse me given how much extra money you're throwing away. It wouldn't bother me except there's so many of them that it's going to eventually force everyone digital and I'm not ready to spend that much extra per game.
 

Deleted member 862

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,646
"In fact, Sony recently noted that the PlayStation Store is the largest distribution for PS4 games, bigger than any other distribution channel."

game shops to stop selling PS4s when?
 

Echo

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
6,482
Mt. Whatever
It's really interesting seeing how day 1 sales for some games are literally the $80 digital edition with the game + season pass.

It seems those spending on digital, on day 1 at least, are more than happy to go for the more expensive edition that comes with everything packed in.

That's me. I pre-order all the digital deluxes under the sun, and double-dip a physical copy way later when they crater in price.

Tbh, it's nice and reassuring to know with the deluxe editions you are usually guaranteed all the extra content as it comes out plus they throw in a bunch of unique things, like PSN Avatars, Themes, Soundtracks, or exclusive content. (Weapons, Skins, Missions, etc...)

It panders to my completionist nature and my need to collect things. For example, I got pre-ordered the digital of NieR Automata on both the US and Hong Kong (Digital Premium Edition) Stores because each came with different items. The DPE from Hong Kong came with an awesome theme, and a downloadble version of the Soundtrack + the DLC for free. To most people this is excessive, but for me, it's what I do lol.

I also have PS+ for my US, Singapore and JP accounts. Each offers different benefits, like for example JP+ usually has tons of free (but limited time) apps which have all kinds of rewards themselves. Recently was an app for FFXV which was the Piano Music collection. The app let you see a live recording of the FFXV Piano concert, and after using the app once a day for 10 days you get a unique PS4 theme with Paino music and super sweet artwork. :)
 
Oct 30, 2017
1,600
Yeah in my circle of friends, we're in our late 20s and 1/2 of them have decided they don't mind spending significantly more on digital than retail just for convenience. Like in the case of MHW, I was able to secure ~$40 preorders for the physical version and I had friends tell me that they'd rather buy it off psn for an extra $20 just to keep from having to switch discs.

Absolutely. If you have a steady job with at least an ok salary… people don't care about paying 10-20 more… When you grow older, you'll get lazier.
 

Bán

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,307
I remember back when PS+ was so insane for PS3 and we all basically said 'This is buttering us up so that they can implement a mandatory online fee that will be worth billions someday'. And now, about eight years later, here we are.

The fact that they make so much money from it nowadays, though, just highlights the fact that it's unacceptable that the OS updates are so infrequent, the reliability and speed of the network isn't great, the shop interface needs work and the 'free' games we get have been worse (until recently). I really wish they'd up their game on this stuff.

But I'm all digital on PS4 and have bought 40+ retail games digitally, so why should they care? People like me are lining their coffers daily.
 

semiconscious

Banned
Nov 10, 2017
2,140
I am surprised people buy that much NEW via PSN store. It's so overpriced relative to what you can get at retail. That's what I struggle with. I'm ready to move on from collecting but I get a 20% discount from two different retailers. It's like...I can't make the math work.

For sales on older games, fine, but I doubt me buying The Order 1886 at $5.99 really moves the needle.

yep - this (combined with no trade-in ability) kills it for me...

&, yeah, everything i buy digital is at deep sale price :) ...
 

RailWays

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
15,674
I am surprised people buy that much NEW via PSN store. It's so overpriced relative to what you can get at retail. That's what I struggle with. I'm ready to move on from collecting but I get a 20% discount from two different retailers. It's like...I can't make the math work.

For sales on older games, fine, but I doubt me buying The Order 1886 at $5.99 really moves the needle.
It is interesting. Though I guess the allure of pre-loading and ditching physical media is starting to catch on.
 

Sense

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,551
I am surprised people buy that much NEW via PSN store. It's so overpriced relative to what you can get at retail. That's what I struggle with. I'm ready to move on from collecting but I get a 20% discount from two different retailers. It's like...I can't make the math work.

For sales on older games, fine, but I doubt me buying The Order 1886 at $5.99 really moves the needle.
You can get psn money for cheaper during holidays. A 50$ Code for 40$ does happen from time to time and I usually stack up on some of them plus combine it with the two or three times a year they do the spend 100 get 15 or 20 back and preorder games you want. The added advantage of sharing the game with a family member and playing simultaneously is a good bonus. Most importantly the convenience of not having retail disks cluttering your space and not having to change discs ;)
 

Lappe

Banned
Nov 1, 2017
1,651
Digital is the future.

The all digital crowd will always confuse me given how much extra money you're throwing away. It wouldn't bother me except there's so many of them that it's going to eventually force everyone digital and I'm not ready to spend that much extra per game.

For me it's in the easiness of it all. I can be on a bus on the way home, and start browsing pen store on my phone, make a purchase. And when I'm home It's ready to play.
Now give that to me in packaged price, so I don't have to "buy" games ever again and I'm good for life. Gaming has reached it's peak.
 

Deleted member 4413

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,238
Nice. I prefer digital but will keep buying physical as long as GCU is a thing.

Though sadly goodbye retail. I remember a thread in OT where some economic analysts we're saying 2018 will see the largest amount of retail stores closing ever.