GRRM Emailed and Addressed the Concerns of an Unhappy GOT Fan

[Lunar Wolf]

CONTEXT

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The person who emailed GRRM is a JB SHIPPER. We don't have a screenshot of exactly what she wrote because there was a lot of personal information. We tried reaching out to get a screenshot of the Jaime and Brienne content, but it seems like she's no longer in fandom. BUT we have a general description of what she told him. She was displeased with the treatment of Jaime and Brienne, so she wrote about her personal struggles and why she related to the characters, particularly Brienne. She mentioned that she wasn't going to accept the show's ending for them, because the messages associated with that endgame were upsetting and nihilistic, and she was looking forward to an ending that was more inspirational and hopeful for that pairing.

That's what we know.

What we THINK is that she mentioned the dream, because he randomly references it in the email, so I believe the first part about "your analysis" is in reference to her dream interpretation. Considering she's a JB shipper, and from what I remember, her dream interpretation and analysis of the characters aligns with the average JB shipper: foreshadowing Jaime and Brienne being a romantic couple, Jaime outliving Cersei, Brienne outliving Jaime, Brienne's light being symbolic of carrying on the Lannister legacy, etc. (I have a slightly different interpretation than she does, but I've seen her mention these points in the recent past).

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GRRM: "Let me say this much –– your analysis is close to the truth. The butterfly effect was at work since the earlier seasons… and it changed some storylines more than others. If truth be told, I'm to be blamed for this too, because I had a load of work and I had to gradually step down from my duties after the forth season to concentrate on Winds. I haven't read the scripts of the last two seasons. And I wasn't exactly a fan of sacrificing some characters and stories at the expense of others… but I do need to mention that it was also an issue beyond the writing room and creative process.

The priority of a television network giant is rarely the story and the messages it gives. The desire of David and Dan (and HBO) to focus on actors like Peter and Lena is understandable. Sometimes certain scenes are written only for actors or for their memorability. And it's not a bad idea to end a TV show which is well known for a controversial incest scene, with another memorable scene of the incestuous twins… it's an ending. It makes sense in this medium, because it's a medium that mainly relies on the memorability of imagery. A finale which brings two or three main actors together is more powerful. It's a different animal when you are only dealing with characters, and not actors. The power of the ending in a book relies on the emotions which the words and the story itself convey.

I feel for you and understand your concerns, but I think you will be more satisfied with the books' ending. Imagine that the books are the show are two parallel universes. There are two Briennes, two Jaimes, two Cerseis. Have you watched Sliding Doors? Sometimes taking a different path changes everything. Have you noticed that the dream might have more than one potential ending? Is Jaime's ending in the show necessarily "wrong"? Can't it be an ending which was the result of choices made and paths taken (by more than one character)? What if Jaime caught the train in one universe and missed in the other? Just food for thought…"

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tldr;

1) GRRM talked to a Jaime x Brienne shipper who related Brienne to herself.

2) GRRM strongly implied that Jaime and Cersei don't die together in his ending.

3) Jaime and Brienne's ending will be a bit more hopeful/less nihilistic and believes the fan will like his ending more.

4) He didn't read the scripts for the last 2 seasons.

5) The show is considered a parallel universe for him where characters make some different choices.

6) He mentions that he's unhappy that the show sacrificed some stories and characters for the sake of others.

7) GRRM says that finales between books and shows are different because one deals with characters and the other with actors. Different mediums allow for different things.

 

[PlanetSmasher]

That was a really nice message for George to send to the fan. He didn't shit on the show (much) but he also sympathized with the fan and expressed how things would be different in his version of the end.

I hope we get to see it.

 

[BasilZero]

I cant wait for the Game of Thrones Cinematic Universe and its own twist.

 

[Byakuya769]

Which door leads to him finishing the books?

 

[BDS]

"I DIDN'T READ THE SCRIPTS FOR THE LAST TWO SEASONS" needs to be blared from the top of every rooftop since one of the most common disinfo canards in the wake of season 8 is that "every character ending is the same cuz GRRM read the scripts and he said so." This should definitively put that to bed.

 

[iksenpets]

That was a really nice message for George to send to the fan. He didn't shit on the show (much) but he also sympathized with the fan and expressed how things would be different in his version of the end.

I hope we get to see it.

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Yeah, it was well handled, though part of me is afraid old man George maybe didn't consider the possibility of the person going and screencapping his emails online when he wrote it for her. Still, a nice gesture to a distraught fan from him, and it's nice to have a really solid piece of evidence that the last few seasons of the show don't have much value for predicting the books outside of a few key events.

 

[Htown]

So, ETA on Game of Thrones: Brotherhood?

 

[Poppy]

Which door leads to him finishing the books?

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this is one of those dr. strange thanos scenarios

 

[Neece]

I wonder how Joanna Robinson feels about this. I know she heavily ships Jaime and Brienne, though she was generally happy with the show version. But I think she was moreso happy that Jaimie didn't kill Cersei because she doesn't want Jaime's story to end with violence towards a lover.

 

[Wyman Manderly]

I spent way too much time trying to decipher "JB Shipper"

 

[Dream Machine]

What does it say that I assumed JB shipper meant Jojen/Bran?

 

[Keldroc]

That's about the most diplomatic way of criticizing the end of the show anyone could write. Very kind of him to write back to that fan and try to make them feel better about it.

I am somewhat reminded of James Cameron's intro to Alien 3 at the end of his director's commentary for Aliens on the Quadrilogy box set: "It's not how I woulda done it!"

 

[Braaier]

this is one of those dr. strange thanos scenarios

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1 in a billion?

 

[Poppy]

1 in a billion?

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y....yes

 

[Deleted member 8561]

What does it say that I assumed JB shipper meant Jojen/Bran?

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[LukeOP]

GRRM was nice but I don't believe there is a universe that would justify the actions the characters took in season 7 and 8. It was all nonsensical decisions to get to an desired end.

 

[Annubis]

So, ETA on Game of Thrones: Brotherhood?

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I mean, I'd watch it.

 

[Deleted member 8561]

So, ETA on Game of Thrones: Brotherhood?

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15 years

 

[Deleted member 5127]

That was really nice of GRRM.

Not gonna lie tho, I'm a little bit mad at GRRM for distancing himself from the TV show and letting D&D loose, he could have stopped it from ending like a shit show.

 

[Byakuya769]

this is one of those dr. strange thanos scenarios

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Lol.

 

[Ploid 6.0]

When the books are out and it's truly finished, HBO will be ready for the reboot. "A Song of Ice and Fire" all the time. It's not TV, it's GRRM.

 

[BDS]

Yeah, it was well handled, though part of me is afraid old man George maybe didn't consider the possibility of the person going and screencapping his emails online when he wrote it for her. Still, a nice gesture to a distraught fan from him, and it's nice to have a really solid piece of evidence that the last few seasons of the show don't have much value for predicting the books outside of a few key events.

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GRRM has frequently responded to fan emails over the years and they often end up online, I'm sure he knew this one could too.

 

[Deleted member 8561]

That was really nice of GRRM.

Not gonna lie tho, I'm a little bit mad at GRRM for distancing himself from the TV show and letting D&D loose, he could have stopped it from ending like a shit show.

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No he couldn't have. D&D had complete control of the show.

I think we're missing some big details of why GGRM effectively left the show and had nothing to do with it for the last four years. I think his "I left to focus on Winds of Winter" is a very polite way of keeping some of the drama that happened under wraps out of respect of the inherent creative differences that developed.

He has been very keen on keeping things civil while still being clear of his distance with the show.

 

[El Bombastico]

So, ETA on Game of Thrones: Brotherhood?

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2345 when GRRM'S 19th clone finally finishes the 9th book.

 

[Cugel]

He will do anything to avoid writing the damn book !

J/k

 

[BossAttack]

It's nice he actually responded, now if he could just finish those damn books...

Obviously, shit is not going to go down the same way in the books. Jaime's dream with Brienne clearly implies this.

 

[Sweeney Swift]

"Thank you GRRM" - a sentence I expect I won't have much more reason to say in the future, given his release schedule

 

[Panic Freak]

1) GRRM talked to a Jaime x Brienne shipper who related Brienne to herself.

2) GRRM strongly implied that Jaime and Cersei don't die together in his ending.

3) Jaime and Brienne's ending will be a bit more hopeful/less nihilistic and believes the fan will like his ending more.

4) He didn't read the scripts for the last 2 seasons.

5) The show is considered a parallel universe for him where characters make some different choices.

6) He mentions that he's unhappy that the show sacrificed some stories and characters for the sake of others.

7) GRRM says that finales between books and shows are different because one deals with characters and the other with actors. Different mediums allow for different things.

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If a writer never actually writes his ending, does his story truly have one?

 

[Juryvicious]

George the diplomat. And the wait for Winds is even tougher now. Honestly George, take your time (sigh..) and do us proud. :)

 

[The Unsent]

Sounds like a great guy. It's ok to be dissapointed but I also felt a bit embarrased seeing people wanting D and D lynched.

 

[Vincent Alexander]

Hrm. GRRM is kind of an awesome guy, huh.

 

[Starphanluke]

Am I the only one who thought that Jaime and Brienne's conclusion was actually really interesting and even more beautiful than just him redeeming himself and them falling in love?

Edit: The final season had plenty of issues. But I thought what it said about their relationship wasn't one of them.

 

[Lunar Wolf]

So, ETA on Game of Thrones: Brotherhood?

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So many ways they could it too.

Adult cartoon:

Full anime:

Disney-style CG

Or drawing it like the comic:

Which is my preference.

 

[Turin]

That's a kind gesture in how he responded to this.

 

[Deleted member 8561]

So many ways they could it too.

Adult cartoon:

Full anime:

Disney-style CG

Or drawing it like the comic:

Which is my preference.

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Animation would be a great way to do a remake

Budget would be a fraction and don't have to worry about aging actors.

Far easier to include fantastical elements that live action wouldn't be able to pull off.

Also in 20 years having full on winter sets might be a production issue given the whole global warming thing

 

[captive]

That's a rather long email, wonder how long it took him to write?

Kind of crappy of whoever screen capped the emails though.

 

[Deleted member 52442]

Awesome that he still reads and responds to fan mail. This news will probably lead him to get overwhelmed for a little bit

 

[Dennis8K]

GoT Remake is the new FFVII Remake.

 

[Deleted member 9479]

That is a heck of a response - it shows the kind of person he is when not confronted with "god dude what is wrong with you write the Damn book!"

That said... I hope he follows through.

 

[Almagest]

Good on GRRM, I'm fully confident his version of the rest of the story is going to so, so much better.

 

[Fat4all]

So many ways they could it too.

[snip]

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you forgot Rankin/Bass style

 

[Lunar Wolf]

you forgot Rankin/Bass style

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Only if Stannis talks like Rankin-Bass' Witch-King



Brienne: Begone, foul king. Lord of Carrion! Leave the dead in peace.

Stannis: Come not between the Mannis and his prey or he will slay thee in turn.

Brienne: Do what you will! I hinder it if I may.

Stannis: Hinder meeeee! THOU FOOL! DOST THOU NOT KNOW THE PROPHECY!!! NO LIVING MAN MAY HINDER MAN!!

Brienne: But no living man am I. You look upon a woman. BRIENNE, AM I! You stand between me and my lord and kin. Begone for living or dark undead, I will smite you if you touch him.

 

[Falchion]

Well it's nice to hear that we may get a very different outcome for some of these relationships.

 

[Natiko]

Can't wait to read his superior version... if it ever gets finished.

 

[Gaia Lanzer]

Can't wait to read his superior version... if it ever gets finished.

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When I heard the showrunners were going to go their way based on concepts from GRRM and GRRM was going to continue his books at his own pace, I was joking that GRRM's waiting to see what D&D do wrong and how the fans react to them, and say "Cool, I'll surely avoid THOSE pitfalls. Hey GoT fans!!! Wait for MY conclusion, it's considered the 'Good Ending'!"

 

[cLOUDo]

The actors/characters part is so damn true

 

[FormatCompatible]

you forgot Rankin/Bass style

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Now I really want a GoT cartoon musical.

 

[mjc]

Interesting that he mentions the decisions to change things went beyond the writing room.

 

[kvetcha]

The actors/characters part is so damn true

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Yeah, as is his comment that television in general is often more concerned with an indelible image than with a well-told story.

 

[OhSatan]

She mentioned that she wasn't going to accept the show's ending for them, because the messages associated with that endgame were upsetting and nihilistic, and she was looking forward to an ending that was more inspirational and hopeful for that pairing.

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This irked me more than it should...