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Deleted member 27751

User-requested account closure
Banned
Oct 30, 2017
3,997
How did you feel about Shovel Knight going the Treasure Trove route and raising its price?
Heck, EA games rising their prices in general.

Hell yeah it is.
That someone else does it doesn't mean it's good or a practice that should just be accepted. Raising the price of your game while still in beta is pretty scummy. I understand full launch price increases but it is not that when the game will still be beta even on Steam's launch.
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,192
That someone else does it doesn't mean it's good or a practice that should just be accepted. Raising the price of your game while still in beta is pretty scummy. I understand full launch price increases but it is not that when the game will still be beta even on Steam's launch.
Raising the price of your beta after it got way more content is not really scummy to me.
 

Mobyduck

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,100
Brazil
That someone else does it doesn't mean it's good or a practice that should just be accepted. Raising the price of your game while still in beta is pretty scummy. I understand full launch price increases but it is not that when the game will still be beta even on Steam's launch.
That's how most Early Access games work nowadays:

roadmap_09__6__steam.png
 

Trey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,013
Well that's disappointing. Thanks for the heads up.

The upgrades aren't permanent, they're optional. It's like all Supergiant games: it has items/sliders/toggles that make your character more powerful and enemies more dangerous. You can tweak either any way you like once you unlock them, or ignore them all together.
 

Deleted member 27751

User-requested account closure
Banned
Oct 30, 2017
3,997
Raising the price of your beta after it got way more content is not really scummy to me.
That's how most Early Access games work nowadays:

roadmap_09__6__steam.png
I understand that there are those that do but I personally don't enjoy or participate in price rises between content updates. As I said, I understand major milestone development increases like alpha to beta and beta to release but patches shouldn't be price hikes because you've got more content.
 

TheYanger

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,153
That someone else does it doesn't mean it's good or a practice that should just be accepted. Raising the price of your game while still in beta is pretty scummy. I understand full launch price increases but it is not that when the game will still be beta even on Steam's launch.
I understand that there are those that do but I personally don't enjoy or participate in price rises between content updates. As I said, I understand major milestone development increases like alpha to beta and beta to release but patches shouldn't be price hikes because you've got more content.

Game has literally more than twice the content it had when it first was buyable.

Minecraft also increased in price steadily as its life went along, because it went from a tech demo to a full game.

You can whine about it more, but it is a sensible standard: Devs are incentivizing earlier investment in their product, when there is more 'risk'. The more the product gels, the less risk there is at all for the consumer. It subsidizes the work for the developer, it's win win.
 

Mobyduck

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,100
Brazil
I understand that there are those that do but I personally don't enjoy or participate in price rises between content updates. As I said, I understand major milestone development increases like alpha to beta and beta to release but patches shouldn't be price hikes because you've got more content.
I think it's an accepted tactic because it's less about punishing late comers and rewarding early adopters. When Early Access became an actual thing, some people were really mad that they were paying a premium to beta test games. So, to warp that view, these games are now usually sold for cheaper the less features they have, as a kind of discount to people wanting to support the developers during that stage. I personally have nothing against either models, and will keep buying indie games in EA.

Also, the price hikes happen usually during big milestones, which are not necessarily connected to Alpha>Beta>Full stages.
 

Calvarok

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,218
Discord isn't a forum. Real time chats and forums have entirely different purposes.
im struggling to think of any reasons a forum is materially different or better and I can't come up with anything. in fact, discord is probably more widely used and accessible to more people than forums are.

EDIT: obviously the fact that it isnt directly linked to the store is the major downside, but the comment I'm replying to seems to be implying there are deeper issues than that
 

svacina

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,439
im struggling to think of any reasons a forum is materially different or better and I can't come up with anything. in fact, discord is probably more widely used and accessible to more people than forums are.

EDIT: obviously the fact that it isnt directly linked to the store is the major downside, but the comment I'm replying to seems to be implying there are deeper issues than that
So, if somebody posted a solution to your problem on discord 3 months ago, how are you gonna find it today? How are you even gonna know somebody posted it?
 

Nacho

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,115
NYC
I understand that there are those that do but I personally don't enjoy or participate in price rises between content updates. As I said, I understand major milestone development increases like alpha to beta and beta to release but patches shouldn't be price hikes because you've got more content.
... why not? Do you also not want people to charge for DLCs, or later bundle dlcs for higher than the base game?

More content equals a more robust product, and early access games, ideally, are being offered before they're fully baked content-wise. There's absolutely nothing wrong with it ESPECIALLY if they're up front about dates that the price will change and what you get for that.
 

Deleted member 10726

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,674
ResetERA
With the search function? Same as you would on the Steam forums.

Last time I checked, Discord messages aren't indexed on Google and you need to join a server to search their messages. Unless you're down for seeking game-specific Discords (and potentially getting through their approval process) just in hopes of getting to search messages for someone having the same issue as you alongside a solution for the issue, I'd say that Steam Forums still generally offer better assistance than whatever Discord can at the moment.
 

Crayon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,580
Food for thought:

The exclusive period may be over in December but the Steampage is open already and you can wishlist the game.
Any potential Hades EGS customer that prefers Steam and has no problems waiting, will probably buy it on Steam.
There could be a situation, that the guaranteed sales number is still not fulfilled. So it is insanely better for Supergiant if the customers bought the game on Steam.
If there are still, like 5000 to 10000 guarantees open, Supergiant gets nothing from it (because Epic already paid for those units) If those customers buy on Steam instead (or wait for it to release on Steam), they get a whole bunch of money.

Is Epic Ok with that?

Good point. Hmm.
 

benj

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,833
i know i shouldn't be surprised by any opinion on game pricing anymore, but "raising the price of games when they add more content is a practice that Should Not Be Accepted" is a new one to me. woof!
 

benj

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,833
It will always be better for developers for people to buy the non-EGS versions, that's just the weird perverse incentive of guaranteed sales.
This is not really true. Once the guaranteed sales have been met, developers realize greater profit from a sale on EGS than they do on Steam, generally, because of EGS's model. The guaranteed sales are a minimum, not a one-time buyout that covers any and all purchases forever.
 

spineduke

Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
8,754
I'm referring to troubleshooting via Discord search.

Finding a solved question/answer to your problem on Discord is terrible. Anyone advocating this as a replacement for forums has no idea what they're talking about. The search doesn't work on relevancy, but rather chronology, and theres a lot of cross chat noise that can intersect the conversation, and people are often taking their conversation to DMs so as not to bother other peeps. It's a complete waste of time for referencing archived solutions.
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,192
This is not really true. Once the guaranteed sales have been met, developers realize greater profit from a sale on EGS than they do on Steam, generally, because of EGS's model. The guaranteed sales are a minimum, not a one-time buyout that covers any and all purchases forever.
That... depends o number of units sold on both stores and how much discount is involved in said sales.
 

Pryme

Member
Aug 23, 2018
8,164
That someone else does it doesn't mean it's good or a practice that should just be accepted. Raising the price of your game while still in beta is pretty scummy. I understand full launch price increases but it is not that when the game will still be beta even on Steam's launch.

Where do you people get these 'rules' from?
 

Calvarok

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,218
So, if somebody posted a solution to your problem on discord 3 months ago, how are you gonna find it today? How are you even gonna know somebody posted it?
i thought discord had a search function, but its probably one that looks for keywords instead of general gist, and it obviously would not push data to google. good point.
 

benj

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,833
That... depends o number of units sold on both stores and how much discount is involved in said sales.
It depends on the number of units sold in the EGS store, primarily, yes. (Steam profit share isn't contingent on units sold.) But if you actually read the post I'm responding to, that is the post that says that it would "always" be better for developers for people to buy their games on Steam—I'm the one saying that it depends.
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,192
It depends on the number of units sold in the EGS store, primarily, yes. (Steam profit share isn't contingent on units sold.) But if you actually read the post I'm responding to, that is the post that says that it would "always" be better for developers for people to buy their games on Steam—I'm the one saying that it depends.
tbh I wasn't sure how to read the "for developers for people" but it might just be the lack of sleep
 

Kyougar

Cute Animal Whisperer
Member
Nov 3, 2017
9,359
It depends on the number of units sold in the EGS store, primarily, yes. (Steam profit share isn't contingent on units sold.) But if you actually read the post I'm responding to, that is the post that says that it would "always" be better for developers for people to buy their games on Steam—I'm the one saying that it depends.

But it also depends on the actual number of guarantees left.
If your game has only sold like 50% of the guarantees in one year and the sales were frontloaded because of interest and discoverability, it is quite possible that the company would prefer that all new purchases are on another storefront where they get money immediately and not 2 or 3 years down the line. And Supergiant is currently advertising the heck out of Hades to be wishlisted at Steam.
And even if there are only like 1 or 2 months left until Supergiant gets the sweet 88/12 cut, it is still better to market the Steam release. it means discoverability in Steam if your game sells good and is wishlisted by many people.

The insane thing is, It could also mean that Epic has no interest in the game meeting its guaranteed sales goal. The exclusivity is over, the game didn't really do well (we are speculating that the guarantees were not met, a hypothetical situation for argument's sake) and the guarantee is a sunk cost for Epic. So why bet on it further. they have other games in their pipeline who are the hot new stuff and who hopefully bring new customers to the store. So Epic will concentrate on the new titles.
 

Tygre

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,119
Chesire, UK
This is not really true. Once the guaranteed sales have been met, developers realize greater profit from a sale on EGS than they do on Steam, generally, because of EGS's model. The guaranteed sales are a minimum, not a one-time buyout that covers any and all purchases forever.

I'm going to make a not-bold-at-all prediction: The sales guarantee given as part of an exclusivity deal for any game on the EGS will never be met by any game ever.

The deal Epic reportedly offer is insane. They reportedly guarantee an equivalent to the minimum expected sales across all other storefronts combined during the exclusivity period, plus any pre-sales.

Epic are expecting to lose money here, their whole plan is loss-leading on a massive scale.


So I return back to my original position: It will always be better for the developers for people to buy the non-EGS versions of their games.
 

BeI

Member
Dec 9, 2017
5,983
I'm going to make a not-bold-at-all prediction: The sales guarantee given as part of an exclusivity deal for any game on the EGS will never be met by any game ever.

The deal Epic reportedly offer is insane. They reportedly guarantee an equivalent to the minimum expected sales across all other storefronts combined during the exclusivity period, plus any pre-sales.

Epic are expecting to lose money here, their whole plan is loss-leading on a massive scale.


So I return back to my original position: It will always be better for the developers for people to buy the non-EGS versions of their games.

Never really thought of that angle. If EGS offer 250k guaranteed sales and the game sells 200k by the time the Steam version comes out, they would be better off getting 50k sales through Steam than 50k more through EGS because the money would just go to paying back Epic anyway. At that point, if most people would probably buy on Steam anyway, could a dev just delist the game from EGS and ensure they get more money in their own pockets instead?
 

Sulik2

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,168
Hades in EA is better then most games ive played in the last two years. The combat is incredible. Definitely worth a pickup.
 

Dandy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,461
I still haven't played Pyre, despite buying it on launch day to support the developers. Not sure if I will bother with Hades. I've heard very little about it, despite it technically being out for so long. Is it just not that great so people are not talking about it? Or did too few people buy it on EGS?
 

Saucycarpdog

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,351
Goddamnit. I was worried about how people would react once these games hit Steam. I knew some people would go the revenge route. :/
 

Admiral Woofington

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
14,892
I still haven't played Pyre, despite buying it on launch day to support the developers. Not sure if I will bother with Hades. I've heard very little about it, despite it technically being out for so long. Is it just not that great so people are not talking about it? Or did too few people buy it on EGS?
It's a fantastic game, we had a thread discussing it here. But the large discussion came by when the game had a MASSIVE price drop during the EGS Summer Sale where many of us here got it.

It's a fantastic game but it comes with the baggage of releasing on EGS in a forum that gets very heated on discussions over it. The main reason was that when we bought it, many of us got as far as we could within a week or so. It is by FAR their best game in terms of gameplay, and it's among the best most addicting rogue-like games I have touched and I don't tend to like them because I hate the punishing difficulty. This title has randomized upgrades you can get in the map like Binding of Isaac, and it's fun to get different upgrades as you play as different combos of weapons, god powers, etc.. have much different consequences.

Me beating the game as far as I could with the gattling gun is a different experience than someone doing it with the shield.
 

ghostcrew

The Shrouded Ghost
Administrator
Oct 27, 2017
30,366
I still haven't played Pyre, despite buying it on launch day to support the developers.

You should play Pyre. It's GREAT, maybe my favourite Supergiant game.

Not sure if I will bother with Hades. I've heard very little about it, despite it technically being out for so long. Is it just not that great so people are not talking about it? Or did too few people buy it on EGS?

HADES IS FREAKING RAD https://www.resetera.com/threads/hades-is-freaking-rad.117777/
 

Dandy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,461
It's a fantastic game, we had a thread discussing it here. But the large discussion came by when the game had a MASSIVE price drop during the EGS Summer Sale where many of us here got it.

It's a fantastic game but it comes with the baggage of releasing on EGS in a forum that gets very heated on discussions over it. The main reason was that when we bought it, many of us got as far as we could within a week or so. It is by FAR their best game in terms of gameplay, and it's among the best most addicting rogue-like games I have touched and I don't tend to like them because I hate the punishing difficulty. This title has randomized upgrades you can get in the map like Binding of Isaac, and it's fun to get different upgrades as you play as different combos of weapons, god powers, etc.. have much different consequences.

Me beating the game as far as I could with the gattling gun is a different experience than someone doing it with the shield.
You should play Pyre. It's GREAT, maybe my favourite Supergiant game.
HADES IS FREAKING RAD https://www.resetera.com/threads/hades-is-freaking-rad.117777/
Thanks! I'll add it to the old wishlist then, though I'll wait until it's out of EA before picking it up on Steam.
 

Deleted member 42

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 24, 2017
16,939
It's a fantastic game, we had a thread discussing it here. But the large discussion came by when the game had a MASSIVE price drop during the EGS Summer Sale where many of us here got it.

It's a fantastic game but it comes with the baggage of releasing on EGS in a forum that gets very heated on discussions over it. The main reason was that when we bought it, many of us got as far as we could within a week or so. It is by FAR their best game in terms of gameplay, and it's among the best most addicting rogue-like games I have touched and I don't tend to like them because I hate the punishing difficulty. This title has randomized upgrades you can get in the map like Binding of Isaac, and it's fun to get different upgrades as you play as different combos of weapons, god powers, etc.. have much different consequences.

Me beating the game as far as I could with the gattling gun is a different experience than someone doing it with the shield.

Co-sign everything said here

Shield bois are best bois though, you can't break this defense
 

JCH!

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
1,171
Tenerife
I was gonna buy the game on release anyway, regardless of platform. Now I guess I'll have to think about buying it on EGS so Supergiant gets more money to keep doing awesome stuff or on Steam where the rest of my library is.
 

Parsnip

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,911
Finland
That sale made me look and interesting to note that from their back catalogue they didn't put Bastion or Pyre in EGS, only Transistor.
 

eonden

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,087
That sale made me look and interesting to note that from their back catalogue they didn't put Bastion or Pyre in EGS, only Transistor.
Taking into account that every single game release in EGS takes some time to set up (as it has to be done manually for now), they pretty much only add new games (or games that were given for free). And only Transistor was given away for free.
 

Parsnip

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,911
Finland
Taking into account that every single game release in EGS takes some time to set up (as it has to be done manually for now), they pretty much only add new games (or games that were given for free). And only Transistor was given away for free.
Oh right, it was given away for free, that explains it. Completely forgot about that.