Halo |OT| She's Gone, Sir

Oct 25, 2017
3,482
Wow this is massive. I am only a quarter through it, but I am definitely going back to it when I have more free time.
Thanks for sharing
No problem. I've read it a few times myself.

When you consider all the moving peices, It's amazing truly amazing that a video game franchise can become a massive hit. It takes a perfect storm of talent, determination, ego, and luck. And what's most crazy is that such a perfect storm can also end up being the problem.

This article gave me much respect for the video game design process. Sometimes I get so wrapped up in the science part, that I forget dozens or even hundreds of people, each with their own creative opinions, are collaborating to create a singular peice of art. That's a wild concept.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,215
343 pushed out a new Halo Wars 2 update today that fixes bugs and makes the game's installation size smaller. They're also promising more content updates for the game this year:

It's pretty rad for 343 to pick back up support for a niche two year old game.
There are a lot of games pushing updates this week to make the installation size smaller (namely Halo Wars 2 and Sea of Thieves). I wonder if there has been a recent API upgrade to the Xbox update system.
 
Oct 28, 2017
1,520
Not many objective matches going in MCC these days. It feels like either the map/gametypes have skewed pool and weighting or players literally toggle objective modes off completely.

Takes a long ass time to, if at all, to find objective only composer filtering. I'm sure it's exasperated by playing from Australia at odd times but damn it's just sad to see over the years.
 
Dec 14, 2017
703
Not many objective matches going in MCC these days. It feels like either the map/gametypes have skewed pool and weighting or players literally toggle objective modes off completely.

Takes a long ass time to, if at all, to find objective only composer filtering. I'm sure it's exasperated by playing from Australia at odd times but damn it's just sad to see over the years.
I think that since the ranked Team Arena playlists have a good amount of objective play, people are going to the match composer just for slayer matches. I've noticed the same thing. Even when I have CTF, assault, etc. picked in the composer, pretty much all I'm getting is slayer.
 

mlappy

Alt Account
Member
Aug 15, 2018
424
Kanada
Between the MCC updates and HW2 updates, im really loving what im seeing from 343 lately. They really seem on the right track and in the right sate of mind. They seem to "get it" now, which is a great thing.
 
Oct 25, 2017
755
Not many objective matches going in MCC these days. It feels like either the map/gametypes have skewed pool and weighting or players literally toggle objective modes off completely.

Takes a long ass time to, if at all, to find objective only composer filtering. I'm sure it's exasperated by playing from Australia at odd times but damn it's just sad to see over the years.
In 4s or in BTB?
 
Oct 25, 2017
755
Here's the full list of stuff in today's patch

https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/...19/ded6c3f1-f064-41e8-8c75-317c9047704c/posts

Bug Fixes
  • Fixed issues where incorrect strings were displayed in the main menu as well as in matchmaking search selections

Playlist Updates
Below are the full notes for updates made to playlists in today’s update.

Social Games - 1v1
Teams have been enabled in head to head for the following games to make it so you can no longer view your enemy after dying.
  • HCE Slayer
  • H2C Slayer
  • H2A Slayer
  • H3 Slayer
  • H4 Slayer

Social Games – 8v8 – HCE Slayer
  • Lowered time limit to 15 minutes
  • Enabled the Flamethrower and Fuel Rod Gun from Halo PC
  • Adjusted vehicle sets so each team receives 1 Warthog, 1 Rocket ‘Hog, 2 Ghosts, and 1 Scorpion

Social Games – 4v4 – H3 – Team Snipers
  • Beam Rifles are now present on map
  • Radar has been disabled

Competitive Games – H3 Lone Wolves
  • Slayer, King of the Hill, and Oddball have had a Magnum secondary added to all AR start variants
 
Oct 25, 2017
898
My Infinite hopes are kinda a moonshot: Weapon/dmg/spd presets taken from each Halo game and with their own MM playlists and DLC map remakes (let's go for infinite), and Map/Mod tools on PC (let's really go for infinite). It's been too long since I've messed around with Halo tools like Sapien!
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,027
Isn't it kinda late and pointless to have an xp system ship 4+ years after launch?
Tin foil hat time!

Maybe the XP system is due to them adding reach and armor customization back in, you can spend the XP on armor, icons and etc. You can justify a XP system when you add a whole new game or port it to a new platform.
 
Oct 25, 2017
830
I mean, they could, armor customization was on the list of "we know people want this" but wasn't as high up as Reach or PC
I always figured that just meant individual customizations instead of armor sets

But sure let's get weird, if someone is wearing the unicorn helmet in Halo CE in 2019 I'll eat a brick
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,027
I always figured that just meant individual customizations instead of armor sets

But sure let's get weird, if someone is wearing the unicorn helmet in Halo CE in 2019 I'll eat a brick
Wait sorry, early in the morning so I missread that. I was meaning all the armor options for Halo 3 would be available and be able to be unlocked and Halo CE/Halo 2 can have the emblems back ported in (like Halo 2 already does)
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,482
It does seem late to add an XP progression system.

But then again, imagine being a player who is just checking in to see how the game has been improved, then you stay unlocking stuff...

That new carrot and stick could be what it takes to turn a fling into a relationship.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,027
Custom Game Browser, Progression and then something at SXSW, I assume whatever is revealed as SXSW will make the progression system make sense to add this late.

Also since they can add new tags in maps because of how they fixed forge.....they can add new armor couldn't they? Wayyyyyy too much work but what if we finally get that fucking Halo Reach DLC helmet? hahaha.
 
Dec 21, 2017
975
Custom Game Browser, Progression and then something at SXSW, I assume whatever is revealed as SXSW will make the progression system make sense to add this late.

Also since they can add new tags in maps because of how they fixed forge.....they can add new armor couldn't they? Wayyyyyy too much work but what if we finally get that fucking Halo Reach DLC helmet? hahaha.
That would be amazing. The Halo 4 dlc weapon skins too.
 
Oct 25, 2017
755
As compared to continuously improving the game 4 years after launch? Keep improving the game. Nothing bad can come from it. And if it eventually releases on PC, itll be an even better product.
There's a difference between adding functionality for starters and features like the match composer; versus a system for enticing players to continue to play the game. The main thrust behind progression systems is to help reduce the amount of people that stop playing your game. And let's face it, most of the population left when the game shipped in the state it was in.
Tin foil hat time!

Maybe the XP system is due to them adding reach and armor customization back in, you can spend the XP on armor, icons and etc. You can justify a XP system when you add a whole new game or port it to a new platform.
This makes a bit of sense, but I'd rather not have to go through playing that much Reach MP to unlock Security helmet or whatever again.

If anything I bet it's prototyping whatever progression Infinite will use.
 
Oct 25, 2017
832
There's a difference between adding functionality for starters and features like the match composer; versus a system for enticing players to continue to play the game. The main thrust behind progression systems is to help reduce the amount of people that stop playing your game. And let's face it, most of the population left when the game shipped in the state it was in.

This makes a bit of sense, but I'd rather not have to go through playing that much Reach MP to unlock Security helmet or whatever again.

If anything I bet it's prototyping whatever progression Infinite will use.
Gotta know how much XP to unlock red dot for your AR
 
Oct 26, 2017
2,044
Yeah they’re totally testing it out for Infinite with MCC as they should be. Also, they’re probably trying to pad MCC with as much as they can to make the ultimate classic Halo experience. Still curious what movement will look like in Infinite.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,027
Yeah they’re totally testing it out for Infinite with MCC as they should be. Also, they’re probably trying to pad MCC with as much as they can to make the ultimate classic Halo experience. Still curious what movement will look like in Infinite.
Yeah I don't think MCC is ever going to stop or die, even after Infinite.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,200
That's an unpopular opinion that I happen to share!

I really don't understand the hate Traviss' books got. Critism is usually associated with the fact everyone views Halsey as a villain, but ultimately Traviss wrote some excellent Sci-fi Spy novels, and gave us some incredible characters (BB, M'dama -I'm looking at you.) its was also cool to be able to see ONI as a collection of real people trying to do their difficult job - rather than just a one dimensional, shadowy organization. Obviously there were some clear villains on the team, but no one took their morally-gray decisions lightly.

I Definately think Kilo-5 would have been a better launching point for post-covey games - and given how well HTT was recieved compared to H5's narrative, I think many would agree.

As far as the lack of violence in Bears book, that's not something I noticed. But yeah, I think that period could make for an interesting spin off. There was supposed to be a game - Halo : Chronicles, that bridged H3 and 4. Then Bungie was going to do Halo 4. When Chronicles and the Halo movie fell through Halo 4 became Halo Reach.



Sounds like even before 343 the series was on a path towards some weird forerunner stuff. It could've potentially been even weirder if Bungie's original plans made it to print.
I agree that the Kilo-5 Trilogy gets a lot of unnecessary flack, but to be fair they definitely have their weaknesses. The entire team of main characters was basically interchangeable to me besides Phillips in the first book and half the second, she has a few buttons she presses too often ("as the humans say"), and the books are saddled with a lot of somewhat ungainly lore shoveling to set up the games ("Set up Jul! And the Didact! And we have to wrap up Ghosts of Onyx as fast as possible.) Mortal Dictata really feels like the novel Traviss wanted to make thematically, and the others are just earlier ruminations on the same theme with table-setting.

Having the series first announced as "post Ghost of Onyx" also improperly calibrated expectations about what was going to be coming.

To this day I still don't understand why they decided to start the 343 era literally with the final cutscene of Halo 3. Having Infinity be a long-shot weapon that missed the conflict it was designed for was interesting, but pumping out new Spartans by 2553 just felt like too much of a rush, considering especially until Hunters in the Dark there was no conflict with back-dating things a bit more and having a more gradual ramp up to the status quo circa Halo 4.

Also, in hindsight it's kind of funny that people were complaining about the K5 Trilogy making humanity "unstoppable" and look like they survived the war just fine, and now that 343 wipes away the status quo and puts humanity on the back foot with the Created people are upset again.
 
Nov 2, 2017
1,729
Denver, CO
What if they end up changing the name of it and instead of the MCC its like "HALO LEGACY" or something where you play all of the halo games ever made from that hub. EVER SINGLE ONE.

so future titles, or spin offs wont be awkward if added to the Master Chief Collection.
I remember them attempting to put all halo things on that Halo Chanel, but this would be that, MCC and then some. Might as well go crazy and set a standard with games in a series ya? "HALO THE COMPLETE EDITION" LOL idk guys i drank too much koolaid.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,482
I agree that the Kilo-5 Trilogy gets a lot of unnecessary flack, but to be fair they definitely have their weaknesses. The entire team of main characters was basically interchangeable to me besides Phillips in the first book and half the second, she has a few buttons she presses too often ("as the humans say"), and the books are saddled with a lot of somewhat ungainly lore shoveling to set up the games ("Set up Jul! And the Didact! And we have to wrap up Ghosts of Onyx as fast as possible.) Mortal Dictata really feels like the novel Traviss wanted to make thematically, and the others are just earlier ruminations on the same theme with table-setting.
I Definately think there were flaws, but nothing I think was deserving of the sort of negative criticism her work received. I felt like the team had pretty distict characters besides the two male ODSTs (I can't even remember their names tbh).

Jul M'dama was a really excellent character. I don't feel like he was just being setup for the games - he ended up having a tiny roll in the games when it's all said and done.

I do think it's inappropriate to do all of a principle character's development in extended media - but there's nothing stopping the dev from properly introducing a character in-game who's already been introduced in literature. 343 has failed here at every turn - Didact, M'dama, Blue Team

I went into it prepared for Halsey to get hammered, so that may have softened my reaction to it. I did find it weird that people would hate Halsey for what she did, but would give Parangosky and Mendez a pass. I can't help but feel THAT is the 'ungainly lore shoveling to setup the games' moreso than Didact and M'dama.

Having the series first announced as "post Ghost of Onyx" also improperly calibrated expectations about what was going to be coming.
I didn't have this issue because I crammed through everything years later. I can see how that would be upsetting.

To this day I still don't understand why they decided to start the 343 era literally with the final cutscene of Halo 3. Having Infinity be a long-shot weapon that missed the conflict it was designed for was interesting, but pumping out new Spartans by 2553 just felt like too much of a rush, considering especially until Hunters in the Dark there was no conflict with back-dating things a bit more and having a more gradual ramp up to the status quo circa Halo 4.

Also, in hindsight it's kind of funny that people were complaining about the K5 Trilogy making humanity "unstoppable" and look like they survived the war just fine, and now that 343 wipes away the status quo and puts humanity on the back foot with the Created people are upset again.
I'm also someone who felt like humanity got too powerful too quickly. But it's pretty sloppy narrative execution to immediately wipe out an arc like that. It begs the question, what was the point of making Humanity so powerful in the first place.

This is a common theme with basically every narrative arc 343 has presented in-game since they took over. Something huge is introduced, then quickly forgotten about.

"OMG We're direct descendants of an ancient space fairing society, entitled to the Mantle and went blow-for-blow with the people the Covey's worship as gods. Cheif's got a geas imprint that kinda-sorta makes him space Jesus, and a badass Forerunner wants revenge " -->" fuck all that, the Created are here"

"Humanity runs the galaxy" --> "Humanity ain't shit"

"Gotta get the Janus Key" --> "what key?"

"Gotta kill Halsey" --> "gotta save Halsey"

"M'dama's a master manipulator, a charismatic leader, and a thorn in the side for the UNSC and Sanghelii best efforts--> "M'dama is a baffoon"

"Cortana is dead" --> "No she isn't she just murdered a 300 million people"

I understand that many of these arcs havent been well recieved. But the total lack of connective tissue between entries isn't helping matters at all. They need to start seeing things through to their logical conclusions, even if they are going to minimize the importance of a particular arc.
 
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jem

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,131
What if they end up changing the name of it and instead of the MCC its like "HALO LEGACY" or something where you play all of the halo games ever made from that hub. EVER SINGLE ONE.

so future titles, or spin offs wont be awkward if added to the Master Chief Collection.
I remember them attempting to put all halo things on that Halo Chanel, but this would be that, MCC and then some. Might as well go crazy and set a standard with games in a series ya? "HALO THE COMPLETE EDITION" LOL idk guys i drank too much koolaid.
I've always thought this would be a good idea.

However, I imagine it wouldn't be all that simple from a technical perspective.

On another note, this is cool: https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/news/head-to-head
 
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Oct 25, 2017
861
I did a thing, sorry Trup1aya!


On another note, I am looking at the possibility of doing a Halo survival horror game built on top of Doom 3. Does this interest anyone? Thoughts on Doom 3 outside of it's crummy combat loop?
 
Oct 28, 2017
1,520
I did a thing, sorry Trup1aya!


On another note, I am looking at the possibility of doing a Halo survival horror game built on top of Doom 3. Does this interest anyone? Thoughts on Doom 3 outside of it's crummy combat loop?
Out of curiosity, during early development of your sprint did you explore ideas such as being able to shoot while running? e.g. bloom on a sliding scale of early sprint vs top speed sprint or say reticule centrepoint movement randomness as you sprint + shoot?

Just spit balling out of interest mate. I'm curious if implementing shooting and sprint is such an impossible task gameplay wise?
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,482
I did a thing, sorry Trup1aya!


On another note, I am looking at the possibility of doing a Halo survival horror game built on top of Doom 3. Does this interest anyone? Thoughts on Doom 3 outside of it's crummy combat loop?
😡

Not bad. Now make it so we can sprint in all directions and simultaneously shoot, and we've got a winner!

What if they end up changing the name of it and instead of the MCC its like "HALO LEGACY" or something where you play all of the halo games ever made from that hub. EVER SINGLE ONE.

so future titles, or spin offs wont be awkward if added to the Master Chief Collection.
I remember them attempting to put all halo things on that Halo Chanel, but this would be that, MCC and then some. Might as well go crazy and set a standard with games in a series ya? "HALO THE COMPLETE EDITION" LOL idk guys i drank too much koolaid.
I think it would be pretty cool if they did this... Maybe add every new game to the collect after a few years. I think one hurdle that would need to be handled first is only being able to customize intelligent delivery AFTER clearing 100% space needed for the collection, downloading a chuck of it, and launching it.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
861
Out of curiosity, during early development of your sprint did you explore ideas such as being able to shoot while running? e.g. bloom on a sliding scale of early sprint vs top speed sprint or say reticule centrepoint movement randomness as you sprint + shoot?

Just spit balling out of interest mate. I'm curious if implementing shooting and sprint is such an impossible task gameplay wise?
It was always going to be fast forward movement and no shooting from the get go, we almost never got FP animation working for it and we ended up with a sort of hacky solution for previous releases, and the new version is actually applying what is essentially the oddball to the player with the sprint state an animation being a different weapon. Which is cool because we have our own "spartan charge" where when in sprint your melee does more damage and sends grunts crying and flying.

As far as your second question...

😡

Not bad. Now make it so we can sprint in all directions and simultaneously shoot, and we've got a winner!
We actually have "speed boots" for fireight that increase the base player speed that you can earn as a reward for beating waves. AS far as sprinting in all directions, our system would let us increase the player speed by as much as we want whenever they activate their armor ability for faster movement, but it be hard to integrate into what we already have. Easy for anything new though, however. That said, you run the risk of the player being able to pass through trigger volumes at a speed in which they aren't detected (trigger volumes are those invisible lines that spawn stuff, but they are actually boxes that trigger stuff.) and the increase in speed means players can manipulate it to do jumps that can let them get places they shouldn't, or bypass said trigger volumes. So it would be incredibly hard to test. I do think it would be kind of cool though. It's just to bad we are at a state where adding it in would be a massive headache... but you never know.

Absolutely.

Doom 3 was amazing.
If you can shoot me a DM, I'd love to hear your detailed thoughts on the game and stuff you like in it, stuff you like in Halo. Assuming my team wants to learn a new engine, I'd be pretty excited to transfer our content we legally can over to the 2 Doom 3 campaigns.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,200
I went into it prepared for Halsey to get hammered, so that may have softened my reaction to it. I did find it weird that people would hate Halsey for what she did, but would give Parangosky and Mendez a pass. I can't help but feel THAT is the 'ungainly lore shoveling to setup the games' moreso than Didact and M'dama.
That never bothered me because it's all about blind spots. Mendez feels like he tried to make amends with the IIIs, and Parangosky's anger stems more from being circumvented and lied to. Halsey ends up getting all the flak because she's the convenient scapegoat. There's also something darkly hilarious about BB's attitude towards Halsey considering that he's literally crafted
from the brain of someone who committed suicide over his participation in the program, and who refused to let 'just following orders' absolve him of his own responsibility.

I do think if they'd had one of the ODSTs take a more sober view of things to echo some of the Halo fan's reading of the character it would have helped just to get more opinions into the books and feel less like a Halsey Hate-fest, but I think there was always going to be an issue because people ate up Nylund's authoritarian UNSC as "the good guys" pretty unequivocally even when Nylund himself was writing pretty clearly about how terrible they were.