Bleed through was a good thing right? It made it so someone with 1% shields couldn't tank a DMR/Pistol headshot.
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Halo |OT| She's Gone, Sir
- Thread starter Poodlestrike
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Sword, Gravity Hammer and explosive weapons are an exception to this. Everything else would drain the 1% shield, but not apply any health damage. Led to incredible frustrating moments. H2A had the same problem (not sure if it was ever fixed), where you could 3 shot somebody and snipe/melee them and it would only drain the shield.
Sounds like we are both for bleed-through. The Reach TU added it right?
Sniper pierces shields in Reach (body and headshots, and the latter are lethal from full health and shields). As does the shotgun though that may be due to multiple projectiles, ie it only appears to pierce shields while technically not doing that.
No comment on H2A, though sniper not piercing shields would be incredibly dumb.
I see why Bungie did what they did with Reach. It made understanding how much damage someone was taking and could take very easy. The downside was you could get into situations where it felt unfair that you were hosed (like CQB where the person who got the first beatdown basically could win no matter what.)
I'm definitely for bleedthrough, yeah.
Forgot the Shotgun and Sniper in Reach, yeah.
The H2A stuff was definitely happening, though. I remember several pro players being pretty annoyed by it, hence the video by Ninja above.
Yeah, lack of bleedthrough along with the loud clang (at least for self, for others the flash was a bit too subdued) when shields failed definitively made it clear when someone was vulnerable.
Reach had certain clarity previous Halos didn't.
Honestly, for most shooting i never found lack of bleedthrough to be particularly problematic. Like, with the DMR, i'd shoot 4 shots to drop the shields, and then drop my target with a head shot (assuming ideal situation, the bloom is another matter naturally). Shooting low-shield target to head was a bit annoying, being used to how things worked before, but not too bad, if not for the bloom messing up follow-up shots.
Melee was where lack of bleedthrough fucked up things. Oh, my target had teeny tiny bit of health left, my melee did fucking nothing in effect.
However, even here the real stupidity is the all-powerful melee. As far as i can recall, you could not kill shieldless targets with single melee in Halo CE and 2 from front, this left melee mostly an emergency weapon, requiring either more shooting or using a weapon with rapid melee (or more powerful melee, since weapons varied in their melee power!) to gain advantage. In Halo 3 and Reach, melee is just stupidly powerful and weapon size has no effect on this in practice. Technically Halo 3's brute weapons dealt more damage but this was usually non-issue (melee was 70 and equal to default shield strength, while spiker/mauler dealt 72 and brute shot did 76 IIRC).
Making melee more varied would've alleviated this. Suppose one requires always two melees to kill shieldless target assuming some standard weapon? Then that third punch to take away small bit of shield wouldn't feel too out of place, and close combat wouldn't devolve into melee rushing since people would have to be more careful in the first place!
(Incidentally i would've preferred that back melee being instant kill removed as well, to make assassinations proper a necessity for instant kill.)
I still find ironic that i never could really adjust into bleedthrough being enabled in Reach. It lead to a shitton of "what the fuck did happen" moments, and melee was still as big problem as it ever was.
Of course, it never helped that the game had a bunch of lists with vanilla settings... They really, really should have just set everything to TU settings and be done with it.
i dont know how competitive it is but it sure is fun to watch.
yeah, agreed
cant wait for the halo cycle where halo 4 story is cool again, I loved it
Absolutely.
Dev maps.
Multi personnel vehicles
All the game modes
Mechanics and pickups that lead to emergent gameplay > RNG
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These tutorial pop-ups are killing me.
"Hold B to pick up weapon."
Yup.
"Hold B to pick up weapon."
Yup.
This isn't possible without a Sidewinder/Avalanche remake and this is fact. Also bring back Longshore.
We've actually hit the stage where the Spartan Ops story is cool again, IMO.
Watch Infinite give us those kinds of missions but in an open world.
Watch Infinite give us those kinds of missions but in an open world.
To make BTB good, the vehicle health system needs to be rethought. If vehicles can be damaged while people occupy them, then the vehicle health needs to be clearly shown in the UI separately. And an option to repair vehicles might be smart in that case, leading to a rhythm were people occasionally withdraw for repairs, and that being a good moment to kill the vehicle too.
Halo 3 did vehicles pretty well for most part. They were powerful, but counters were plentiful and powerful (perhaps downright crippling at times, i recall many times when we knew the enemy had the Spartan Laser and as such no one in the team touched vehicles). Good starting point, in principle, though naturally the whole sandbox affects things, as does map design.
Aerial vehicles especially need to be carefully balanced.
The Hornet as it is in Halo 3 was far too powerful, and from what little i recall from H5's Wasp, it was uncomfortably similar in power. On the other hand, the transport variant from Avalanche was borderline worthless, while making carrying objective-carriers perhaps too easy. There's a reason the Falcon lacks passenger seat in multiplayer in Reach.
The Falcon is probably the single greatest addition to vehicle sandbox, on the account of actually requiring thought and coordination to make good use of it, and as such it would be nice if it returned or a spiritual successor with nigh-identical gameplay would replace it.
The Banshee was from Reach-onward way too powerful. Oddly, removing the Fuel Rod from it could've balanced it to great degree. It would've been fast and nimble, but offer limited firepower, mostly as anti-infantry vehicle (its plasma cannons were pretty good but overshadowed by the FRG). The FRG works though, as long as it is carefully balanced (long cooldown and/or angle of attack limit as in Halo 3).
And ditch the Scorpion tank. It works fine in campaign and co-op, but in multiplayer there is no reasonable way to make it balanced. It is too easy to use, but making it slow to move or slow to fire will just make it a sitting duck for anti-vehicle weapons (or just make it a turret, which is equally boring). Making its cannon random as it is in Halo CE just ain't fun either, i mean, how much do people still (rightly) complain about random spread or random bloom, etc.? Same applies to vehicles.
I'm not sure if there is a reasonable option for a human heavy vehicle, but perhaps MP works just fine by having a "heavy 'Hog", such as the rocket 'Hog or Gauss 'Hog to fulfill that role, along with the Falcon or equivalent. The Wraith alone can fulfill the heavy vehicle role in multiplayer.
Also ditch the Mantis, it is like the Scorpion in function but worse in some ways. Also ugly as fuck.
Halo 3 did vehicles pretty well for most part. They were powerful, but counters were plentiful and powerful (perhaps downright crippling at times, i recall many times when we knew the enemy had the Spartan Laser and as such no one in the team touched vehicles). Good starting point, in principle, though naturally the whole sandbox affects things, as does map design.
Aerial vehicles especially need to be carefully balanced.
The Hornet as it is in Halo 3 was far too powerful, and from what little i recall from H5's Wasp, it was uncomfortably similar in power. On the other hand, the transport variant from Avalanche was borderline worthless, while making carrying objective-carriers perhaps too easy. There's a reason the Falcon lacks passenger seat in multiplayer in Reach.
The Falcon is probably the single greatest addition to vehicle sandbox, on the account of actually requiring thought and coordination to make good use of it, and as such it would be nice if it returned or a spiritual successor with nigh-identical gameplay would replace it.
The Banshee was from Reach-onward way too powerful. Oddly, removing the Fuel Rod from it could've balanced it to great degree. It would've been fast and nimble, but offer limited firepower, mostly as anti-infantry vehicle (its plasma cannons were pretty good but overshadowed by the FRG). The FRG works though, as long as it is carefully balanced (long cooldown and/or angle of attack limit as in Halo 3).
And ditch the Scorpion tank. It works fine in campaign and co-op, but in multiplayer there is no reasonable way to make it balanced. It is too easy to use, but making it slow to move or slow to fire will just make it a sitting duck for anti-vehicle weapons (or just make it a turret, which is equally boring). Making its cannon random as it is in Halo CE just ain't fun either, i mean, how much do people still (rightly) complain about random spread or random bloom, etc.? Same applies to vehicles.
I'm not sure if there is a reasonable option for a human heavy vehicle, but perhaps MP works just fine by having a "heavy 'Hog", such as the rocket 'Hog or Gauss 'Hog to fulfill that role, along with the Falcon or equivalent. The Wraith alone can fulfill the heavy vehicle role in multiplayer.
Also ditch the Mantis, it is like the Scorpion in function but worse in some ways. Also ugly as fuck.
Halo 2 and Halo 3 did vehicles the right way where vehicle health tied to driver health. I loved it. And then Reach gave us the newer system which I dislike. Ironically the Sabres had the old system, and they were awesome.
343 please go back to the 2/3 vehicle system PLEASE!
so on my Hot Drops gamemode, the game at a system level is fighting me, even with advanced scripting help there is some issue with tick rates, and player connections to the server that is keeping my original vision from being possible, so I decided to pivot my design
A single 5 minute round, respawns, the phantoms above are on a flight path loop, gameplay settings are the same.
Ideally Id like this to be an 8 minute game mode I think, but I will need more testing to see how long to stretch each combat zone, might need additional ammo and weapon placements, etc, etc. Either way, if anyone finds themselves on Halo 5, get it a peek in customs
Map
Gametype
I also moved it to the desert because of reasons
I also love that I could stick my teammates in a warthog and it flings the damn thing like 50 feet.
Personally I love the Halo 3 vehicle physics and I think the new heftier vehicles are a downgrade*
*citation needed, but based on last night thats where I'm at
A single 5 minute round, respawns, the phantoms above are on a flight path loop, gameplay settings are the same.
Ideally Id like this to be an 8 minute game mode I think, but I will need more testing to see how long to stretch each combat zone, might need additional ammo and weapon placements, etc, etc. Either way, if anyone finds themselves on Halo 5, get it a peek in customs
Map
Gametype
I also moved it to the desert because of reasons
best timeline
playing H3 last night, fighting against Warthogs felt great.
I also love that I could stick my teammates in a warthog and it flings the damn thing like 50 feet.
Personally I love the Halo 3 vehicle physics and I think the new heftier vehicles are a downgrade*
*citation needed, but based on last night thats where I'm at
Nah I'd go too far in the Halo cycle when Halo 5's story is good.
I mentioned this on Twitter not too recently, but man Spartan Ops would have been much better received if they'd cut the number of missions by a third to a half. Recycling of maps and the "go to A, push B, kill C" formula just got overused way too much. Second half was much better and had some legitimately great campaign set pieces I'd put up there with the campaigns proper (the Lich boarding, escaping Requiem while the gravity goes haywire, etc.)
Absolutely, the second half was far better than the beginning. The levels were better and new and the stakes escalated in a good way. It's partly why I like how Requiem was handled more than Genesis. Now if only we met Witness in H4 instead of H5.
That's.. Hmm.. Good point. In my mind spartan Ops was always the low point, but 5 probably is...wow.
One further thing about BTB, is to refine hijacking.
Currently (as for Halo 4, i can't actually remember at all how it works in H5), it is fine for small vehicles and multi-seaters, but utterly braindead for heavy vehicles.
Halo 2 implemented hijacking well for heavy vehicles. You jump on-board, melee the hatch off, and then decide between a grenade to destroy and deny the vehicle, or keep hitting to kill the pilot and take over.
Halo 3 fucked this up by making melee attacks damage the vehicle, making the whole idea of using grenades to destroy it pointless, and Reach and Halo 4 further boosted the damage to the point it is borderline impossible to capture a heavy vehicle if it has been damaged at all before. Not fun, not interesting, too easy.
Halo 2 system should return, just with faster animations (hitting vehicles was slow in H2), if only to promote hijacking vehicles over destroying them with melee. Actually destroying a vehicle also has a small cost (1 grenade), if you can't pay that, you may need to guard to vehicle to prevent enemy from getting it back if you aren't taking it for yourself. Would make them something to fight over, rather than just destroying them mindlessly and waiting for them to respawn.
As for multi-seaters, i'd suggest slight refinement, in form of quick-time event: When you board a Warthog (or Spectre or Prowler or Revenant, etc.), not doing anything further would normally just pull out the driver and place you in controls. But if you were to press grenade button (assuming you have those) while boarding, you'd merely drop a grenade in the vehicle and leave it, and watch the fireworks. Same would work for passenger seats.
As it is, hijacking a Warthog usually leads to either the enemy to abandoning it, or the hijacker trying to drive it into a chasm or something like that. Fun, but i feel quick destruction should be an option here, especially since it is not impossible for one team to control vehicles and power weapons in a smaller map.
This could be perhaps further refined to add ability for the occupants to try to fight off the hijacker, though i suppose this might make the system too complex, simplicity may be better here.
Currently (as for Halo 4, i can't actually remember at all how it works in H5), it is fine for small vehicles and multi-seaters, but utterly braindead for heavy vehicles.
Halo 2 implemented hijacking well for heavy vehicles. You jump on-board, melee the hatch off, and then decide between a grenade to destroy and deny the vehicle, or keep hitting to kill the pilot and take over.
Halo 3 fucked this up by making melee attacks damage the vehicle, making the whole idea of using grenades to destroy it pointless, and Reach and Halo 4 further boosted the damage to the point it is borderline impossible to capture a heavy vehicle if it has been damaged at all before. Not fun, not interesting, too easy.
Halo 2 system should return, just with faster animations (hitting vehicles was slow in H2), if only to promote hijacking vehicles over destroying them with melee. Actually destroying a vehicle also has a small cost (1 grenade), if you can't pay that, you may need to guard to vehicle to prevent enemy from getting it back if you aren't taking it for yourself. Would make them something to fight over, rather than just destroying them mindlessly and waiting for them to respawn.
As for multi-seaters, i'd suggest slight refinement, in form of quick-time event: When you board a Warthog (or Spectre or Prowler or Revenant, etc.), not doing anything further would normally just pull out the driver and place you in controls. But if you were to press grenade button (assuming you have those) while boarding, you'd merely drop a grenade in the vehicle and leave it, and watch the fireworks. Same would work for passenger seats.
As it is, hijacking a Warthog usually leads to either the enemy to abandoning it, or the hijacker trying to drive it into a chasm or something like that. Fun, but i feel quick destruction should be an option here, especially since it is not impossible for one team to control vehicles and power weapons in a smaller map.
This could be perhaps further refined to add ability for the occupants to try to fight off the hijacker, though i suppose this might make the system too complex, simplicity may be better here.
I'm sure we'll all be longing for Locke after Infinite comes out.
I always thought that Reach especially refined vehicle controls. The Warthog was far smoother and more fun to drive, as were other vehicles (and speeders Bungie refined to perfection in Destiny).
The Ghost might have been a bit "heavier", along with the tanks, but IMO the Banshee was also nimbler than in Halo 3, though this is partially because Reach didn't limit the Banshee's angle of attack as H3 did.
(And the Falcon was a joy to fly, such ingenious control scheme.)
Uncertain what Halo 4 did with vehicles. Vague recollection that Warthog was "heavier" than in Reach, but that might be caused by the sound making it feel heavier, even if controls were identical. Ultimately i mostly recall that the vehicles got atomized when they blew up (seriously, why no wrecks?), and they did that very easily.
The only part that really got me was the ending of Spartan ops... Im still salty. Wtf is that. O rly self destruct and send itself into the closest star. K thnx
Haha, I disagree with the Reach warthog. It flipped a million times more than any Halo 3 warthog. And I mean just going over hilly terrain. I much preferred the older warthog physics.
Oh, it might have been more unstable but i always though it smoother (for the lack of better word, kind of an overall feeling) and more fun to drive otherwise. And avoiding rolling over was part of the fun. Think it is faster too? ODST Warthog certainly feels faster than Halo 3's, and Reach's feels more similar to that than stock Halo 3.
Certainly Reach offered good control over the 'Hog's stability in air, i remember my friend driving and doing insane jumps and rolls and always landing us right side up.
Did you ever drive it yourself? Did you ever drive it while it was damaged and missing some hubcaps? It got really bad really fast in that game. So much that I would actively sabotage enemy vehicles in BTB that way.
Oh i drove quite a bit. Enough i remember liking it a lot, more so than in Halo 3, and i was a big fan of BTB in Halo 3. Though i've always been a better gunner than driver.
I did switch vehicles at every opportunity though, i know it went shit quick.
Playing Halo 3 BTB again reminds me of what happens when there's not quite enough banshee counters. Laser, sure.
Otherwise, GG if it's in the hands of a decent pilot.
Otherwise, GG if it's in the hands of a decent pilot.
I'd quietly snag a turret on Valhalla just in case we lose the laser. One of my other techniques is to tell my team to focus fire with AR as it gets close. Enough people can shred it in seconds and they don't expect it.
Who dis?
Look up match composer for mcc on YouTube. I hope it'll only have one ranked playlist like H4 and it being ZBNS.
The Tox/GMS elimination final was insane. Really happy apg is on a top-2 squad. Dude's earned it.
Hopefully Infinite won't be as trash as 4/5. Still waiting for the time 343 actually get a game right. Surely they can hit 1 for 3 right?
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