Halo |OT| She's Gone, Sir

Deleted member 2507

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Think Halo 2 Legendary but the AI is far more impressive.
Not similar at all. Reach AI is fucking cheat and bullet sponge, not to mention the fuel rod spam. And concussion rifles. And Phantoms with their mega concussion blasts.
Halo 2 legendary AI is actually pretty fair all things considered... plus the game has more or less fixed AI spawns so dealing with encounters is very easy once you know the spawns.
 

fuchsdh

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,914
I've done every game solo Legendary. H2 was a lot easier than in my youth, but it certainly wasn't fun. I find Reach the most aggravating, even if it's probably not objectively the toughest. Removing CQC as a viable option entirely + making the enemies bullet sponges whose own ranged weapon is ineffective against + bloom just ended up being aggravating.
 

Ozzy Onya A2Z

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Oct 28, 2017
2,709
I've done every game solo Legendary. H2 was a lot easier than in my youth, but it certainly wasn't fun. I find Reach the most aggravating, even if it's probably not objectively the toughest. Removing CQC as a viable option entirely + making the enemies bullet sponges whose own ranged weapon is ineffective against + bloom just ended up being aggravating.
I also hated the double charged plasma pistol requirement to drop shields, at least I think that was Reach that brought it in.
 

Deleted member 2507

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I also hated the double charged plasma pistol requirement to drop shields, at least I think that was Reach that brought it in.
Did it? I remember Halo 3's plasma pistol did infinite shield damage, but i guess Reach's didn't keep that?

Not 100% sure but Halo 2's Ultra Elite shields may have been strong enough to require two charged blasts. At very least they were so with Thunderstorm skull enabled... but that's not standard way of playing so it doesn't count.
 

NOKYARD

Member
Oct 25, 2017
471
Not to mention the fact that when you kill the 3 fuel rod spamming grunts the 3 FRGs they drop vanish by the time you get to them.
 

Ozzy Onya A2Z

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Oct 28, 2017
2,709
Did it? I remember Halo 3's plasma pistol did infinite shield damage, but i guess Reach's didn't keep that?

Not 100% sure but Halo 2's Ultra Elite shields may have been strong enough to require two charged blasts. At very least they were so with Thunderstorm skull enabled... but that's not standard way of playing so it doesn't count.
Definitely Halo 4 did the double plasma to drop shields, I think Reach had it, albeit used way less than Halo 4.

Not to mention the fact that when you kill the 3 fuel rod spamming grunts the 3 FRGs they drop vanish by the time you get to them.
Exactly why I can't stand Legendary, your enemy shreds you, you kill them and take their weapon only to have a weird nerfing affecting in your hands. I hope "next gen" games like Halo Infinite do away with cheap settings changed such as this and actually balance the difficulty settings through smarter AI, larger enemy numbers and similar. For example the scarcity of certain ammo types on legendary just sucks as well. It's just not fun, nor do I find it more skilful to accomplish a mission that way.
 

fuchsdh

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Oct 25, 2017
4,914
Definitely Halo 4 did the double plasma to drop shields, I think Reach had it, albeit used way less than Halo 4.



Exactly why I can't stand Legendary, your enemy shreds you, you kill them and take their weapon only to have a weird nerfing affecting in your hands. I hope "next gen" games like Halo Infinite do away with cheap settings changed such as this and actually balance the difficulty settings through smarter AI, larger enemy numbers and similar. For example the scarcity of certain ammo types on legendary just sucks as well. It's just not fun, nor do I find it more skilful to accomplish a mission that way.
I think weapon scarcity is a reasonable factor to include to boost difficulty, moreso over just boosting health. Ideally in a difficulty level I’d like the enemy to be less likely to break and run, more likely to aggressively pursue me, and more accurate/competent, but not really any stronger besides having some upgraded ranks on occasion. The combination of bullet sponge enemies with uncanny accuracy bothers me.

Rock slider at HBO had a good video recently messing with a grunt stuck on chucking grenades that the AI doesn’t really cheat if you’re out of sight—it keeps on chucking at your last known location and only updates when you fire again or pop out of cover. It feels so refreshing
 

Ozzy Onya A2Z

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Oct 28, 2017
2,709
I think weapon scarcity is a reasonable factor to include to boost difficulty, moreso over just boosting health. Ideally in a difficulty level I’d like the enemy to be less likely to break and run, more likely to aggressively pursue me, and more accurate/competent, but not really any stronger besides having some upgraded ranks on occasion. The combination of bullet sponge enemies with uncanny accuracy bothers me.

Rock slider at HBO had a good video recently messing with a grunt stuck on chucking grenades that the AI doesn’t really cheat if you’re out of sight—it keeps on chucking at your last known location and only updates when you fire again or pop out of cover. It feels so refreshing
Sure, to an extent on ammo I can understand the need for it but having to hunt every crevice for ammo to finish a mission isn't fun.

Agreed on that AI example, perfect.
 

Cranster

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,344
Not similar at all. Reach AI is fucking cheat and bullet sponge, not to mention the fuel rod spam. And concussion rifles. And Phantoms with their mega concussion blasts.
Halo 2 legendary AI is actually pretty fair all things considered... plus the game has more or less fixed AI spawns so dealing with encounters is very easy once you know the spawns.
That's the thing though, the AI in Reach is objectively the smartest AI in the series since the first Halo. Halo 2's AI isn't bad per say but it definitely suffered due to development issues and time constraints, which sort of lead to Halo 2 being so difficult on Legendary when they boosted enemy damage output. The problem with Reach on Legendary is that Bungie repeated the Halo 2 mistake by giving the enemies ridiculous damage and health/shield boosts instead of simply either upgrading enemy unit's or making slight tweaks here and there. Combined with other dumb decisions like homing fuel rods, concussion rifles on enemy dropships, first Elite encounters being Ultra's, ect. Reach is in many ways more difficult than Halo 2 ever was.
 
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Deleted member 2507

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I don't recall Reach AI being smart (or "life-like"), just fucking cheat. Though i suppose i've played Halo so long the AI can no longer surprise me at all.

Halo 2 AI health boost from Heroic to Legendary is nothing compared to Reach's boosts. Hell, pretty sure Reach Normal to Heroic is a gigantic leap, sure as hell the only Halo i don't like playing on Heroic (solo, fine in co-op).
 

Cranster

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Oct 25, 2017
5,344
The game still has grenades and equipment enabled in H3 Swat even though that was not the case in the original game.
 

Deleted member 2507

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I mean, of fucking course there should be playlists without AL (indeed, it doesn't really have any place in any serious modes, maybe BTB but even that's a big maybe). I'm just extremely skeptical that will happen.
 

Cranster

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Oct 25, 2017
5,344
In regards to Halo 5 though and I hope it is the opposite for Infinite, but Halo 5 needs more developer made maps. I hate to call it laziness on 343i's part because they put alot of content into Halo 5, but how else can you describe the lack of unique maps in Halo 5? They seem to rely so heavily on community made maps to fill the void especially in BTB. Most community made maps have historically never played as well as the dev made maps to begin with.

343 can not make that same mistake with Infinite, otherwise they will get alot of criticism thrown their way and they will deserve it that time.
 

Welfare

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,218
Remixes need to die. It's not lazy, just boring and uninspiring.

Infinite's maps really need to improve. There are not many Arena maps to pick from launch, nothing post launch and BTB is pathetic.

The 5 year gap will only put pressure on 343 to deliver on maps and game types at launch. Along with going to a multi year GAAS model, the community will also expect new quality post launch maps.
 

Ozzy Onya A2Z

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Oct 28, 2017
2,709
Remixes need to die. It's not lazy, just boring and uninspiring.

Infinite's maps really need to improve. There are not many Arena maps to pick from launch, nothing post launch and BTB is pathetic.

The 5 year gap will only put pressure on 343 to deliver on maps and game types at launch. Along with going to a multi year GAAS model, the community will also expect new quality post launch maps.
I agree, leave remakes to Forgers. Devs should have nothing but new maps. I'm also over the focus on just Arena or WZ, Halo light vehicles, objective, BTB and the like were a cornerstone left out in the cold.
 

Trup1aya

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,666
Halo 1's AI is readable and expresses itself charismatically, which makes it feel quite alive. But it's not smart at all; it's very simple and quite dumb.
Tbh, AI hadn't advanced much since Halo:CE, and I'm not talking just Halo, I'm talking industry wide.

Being readable, feeling fair and Feeling alive is much more important than being able to outplay the player.

CE was a modern breakthrough in terms of creating the illusion that the enemies have both an interest in killing you and in self-preservation - Though really, they just want to pressure you until you kill them.

I'd love for Halo:Infinite to represent the next modern break-through in FPS AI, but I worry we've already passed the threshold where making them appear smarter would also make them less fun to play against.
 

nillapuddin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,484
Testing Action Sack Refresh maps/modes right now if anyone wants to jump in- runNOKYARDrun
missed this :( I was seeing some cool stuff lately but wanted to see it in action, hopefully it went well.

Scripting really is so cool, I know it's obtuse and not always reliable, but damn if it doesn't create some awesome opportunities. Alot of games (not really true) have map makers, but I don't know if any of them have something equivocal to scripting in 5
 

NOKYARD

Member
Oct 25, 2017
471
Have you seen the Phase Shift? It takes scripting to a new level.

If you are not familiar, players can press X to phase shift between 2 very different realms while in the heat of battle. The maps are very different visually while having matching geometry, yet with different route possibilities (like vines covering doorways on only one realm). While in one realm there is a glowing avatar representing your position in the other realm so players can track your position and strategically switch realms. One realm map is placed directly above the other so you can also track players in the other realm on Radar. What's even more impressive is it uses standard game variants, not a matching mini game variant.

Time Stamp 28:36

 

DemonCarnotaur

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,777
Have you seen the Phase Shift? It takes scripting to a new level.

If you are not familiar, players can press X to phase shift between 2 very different realms while in the heat of battle. The maps are very different visually while having matching geometry, yet with different route possibilities (like vines covering doorways on only one realm). While in one realm there is a glowing avatar representing your position in the other realm so players can track your position and strategically switch realms. One realm map is placed directly above the other so you can also track players in the other realm on Radar. What's even more impressive is it uses standard game variants, not a matching mini game variant.

Time Stamp 28:36

uh whoa

this could be its own game practically
 

Garrett 2U

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
2,627
This salty player that I killed in Apex sent me a message accusing me of using mouse and keyboard on Xbox. Poor Fortnite kids just can’t keep up with Halo vets.
 

Addy Edwin

Member
Aug 7, 2018
54
Have you seen the Phase Shift? It takes scripting to a new level.

If you are not familiar, players can press X to phase shift between 2 very different realms while in the heat of battle. The maps are very different visually while having matching geometry, yet with different route possibilities (like vines covering doorways on only one realm). While in one realm there is a glowing avatar representing your position in the other realm so players can track your position and strategically switch realms. One realm map is placed directly above the other so you can also track players in the other realm on Radar. What's even more impressive is it uses standard game variants, not a matching mini game variant.

Time Stamp 28:36

Wow this is insane. How did they even pull this off, didn't know you could even do that with Halo's scripting.. it's like Titan Fall 2 phasing
 

Garrett 2U

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
2,627
Have you seen the Phase Shift? It takes scripting to a new level.

If you are not familiar, players can press X to phase shift between 2 very different realms while in the heat of battle. The maps are very different visually while having matching geometry, yet with different route possibilities (like vines covering doorways on only one realm). While in one realm there is a glowing avatar representing your position in the other realm so players can track your position and strategically switch realms. One realm map is placed directly above the other so you can also track players in the other realm on Radar. What's even more impressive is it uses standard game variants, not a matching mini game variant.

Time Stamp 28:36

That’s incredible. Props to the creator.
 

jem

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,024
Have you seen the Phase Shift? It takes scripting to a new level.

If you are not familiar, players can press X to phase shift between 2 very different realms while in the heat of battle. The maps are very different visually while having matching geometry, yet with different route possibilities (like vines covering doorways on only one realm). While in one realm there is a glowing avatar representing your position in the other realm so players can track your position and strategically switch realms. One realm map is placed directly above the other so you can also track players in the other realm on Radar. What's even more impressive is it uses standard game variants, not a matching mini game variant.

Time Stamp 28:36

That's very cool.

I'm guessing it works by just shifting the player vertically when they hit the powerup button?
 

Moose

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,697
I agree, leave remakes to Forgers. Devs should have nothing but new maps. I'm also over the focus on just Arena or WZ, Halo light vehicles, objective, BTB and the like were a cornerstone left out in the cold.
Unless Halo Infinite has a developer kit so the community can make developer tier maps I don't agree at all. There are plenty of classic maps that I would like to revisit, but not as ugly forge maps.
 

Ozzy Onya A2Z

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,709
Have you seen the Phase Shift? It takes scripting to a new level.

If you are not familiar, players can press X to phase shift between 2 very different realms while in the heat of battle. The maps are very different visually while having matching geometry, yet with different route possibilities (like vines covering doorways on only one realm). While in one realm there is a glowing avatar representing your position in the other realm so players can track your position and strategically switch realms. One realm map is placed directly above the other so you can also track players in the other realm on Radar. What's even more impressive is it uses standard game variants, not a matching mini game variant.

Time Stamp 28:36

Amazingly well executed and creative with the toolset they have in Forge. Much kudos. Titanfall-esque.

Unless Halo Infinite has a developer kit so the community can make developer tier maps I don't agree at all. There are plenty of classic maps that I would like to revisit, but not as ugly forge maps.
I can understand that take. I've just had enough of the remakes and reimagining of in some cases 2-4 versions of a map. As for a developer kit, fuck yes, to put it simply. Given Forge for Halo 5 on PC and Infinite launching on both PC/Xbox surely one of the long baking surprises would be Forge on PC becoming a full blown editor of sorts.
 

kittens

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,163
so I just heard the fuel rod cannon in a song


FRC starts at 1:40. I screamed when I heard it honestly, I love it. wait I'm listening again and I think I hear the energy sword too? and plasma pistol?
 

nillapuddin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,484
so Im going through my Halo 5 fileshare again, this time trying to cut down from 12 pages to something more reasonable

(Avalanche 0.6, Avalanche 0.7, Avalanche 0.7123shitimtired... etc etc)

and found this ole gem


I remember I had 4 player working pinball back whenever scripting very first came out, but it was so laggy that one in game second took like 30 real world seconds lol.

so I just heard the fuel rod cannon in a song


FRC starts at 1:40. I screamed when I heard it honestly, I love it. wait I'm listening again and I think I hear the energy sword too? and plasma pistol?
haha that is 100000% the FRC and Plasma pistol
 

Trup1aya

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,666
Have you seen the Phase Shift? It takes scripting to a new level.

If you are not familiar, players can press X to phase shift between 2 very different realms while in the heat of battle. The maps are very different visually while having matching geometry, yet with different route possibilities (like vines covering doorways on only one realm). While in one realm there is a glowing avatar representing your position in the other realm so players can track your position and strategically switch realms. One realm map is placed directly above the other so you can also track players in the other realm on Radar. What's even more impressive is it uses standard game variants, not a matching mini game variant.

Time Stamp 28:36

That's pretty sick!
 

op_ivy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,760
Have you seen the Phase Shift? It takes scripting to a new level.

If you are not familiar, players can press X to phase shift between 2 very different realms while in the heat of battle. The maps are very different visually while having matching geometry, yet with different route possibilities (like vines covering doorways on only one realm). While in one realm there is a glowing avatar representing your position in the other realm so players can track your position and strategically switch realms. One realm map is placed directly above the other so you can also track players in the other realm on Radar. What's even more impressive is it uses standard game variants, not a matching mini game variant.

Time Stamp 28:36

thats incredible
 
OP
OP
Poodlestrike

Poodlestrike

It's salt.
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
6,555
Have you seen the Phase Shift? It takes scripting to a new level.

If you are not familiar, players can press X to phase shift between 2 very different realms while in the heat of battle. The maps are very different visually while having matching geometry, yet with different route possibilities (like vines covering doorways on only one realm). While in one realm there is a glowing avatar representing your position in the other realm so players can track your position and strategically switch realms. One realm map is placed directly above the other so you can also track players in the other realm on Radar. What's even more impressive is it uses standard game variants, not a matching mini game variant.

Time Stamp 28:36

Yooooooooo this is next-level.

They better deliver with Infinity Forge.
 

Addy Edwin

Member
Aug 7, 2018
54
Yeah already replied above saying how cool phase shift is, but feel like the forgers deserve another shout out. The creativity required to make it work within Halo's forge systems is out of this world. And to even think that this would be possible, let alone execute it, is... wow
 

op_ivy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,760
hopefully the issues with players teleporting into walls, killing themselves instantly, can be worked out. lets see some ctf maps