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Halo |OT| She's Gone, Sir
- Thread starter Poodlestrike
- Start date
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They got 16 days, so very soon.It is now "Shortly after E3" time
what are we talking about? MP trailer and announcement of flighting for infinite multiplayer in '19? i'll try to keep my expectations in check
We aren't getting any tests of Infinite till 2020. I do think we will see a VGA trailer though before that.
Master Chief changes sides and joins Cortana to rebuild The Ark and deploy installations to cleanse the galaxy. It's kind of a final game in the saga. You'll play Locke for every other mission trying to stop Chief and his crazy blue side chick.
Imagine getting to choose to play a dark side Chief.
didact got the best possible excuse for a redesign when he was composed. it would be kind of interesting if they made him the main villain here, sort of tying the whole "trilogy" together better than it would seem otherwise. but i doubt it.
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i was super into the concept of the Created, and i like that even if that war is over, the idea of using smart ai basically as tools and not acknowledging them as people can't go on. it's fairly well-worn sci fi ground, but cortana's breakdown of her motivations and thought process sold it for me. plus that scene where Sloan (the ai mayor of the city on the glassed planet) is included among the chorus of voices joining cortana was a great payoff on how shifty he seemed when you first met him.
And Roland just casually refusing to join is a real underrated thing about the ending.
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so in the final game, do you think they'll make the pilot's hologram actually show his kid + a slightly less creepy image of the wife? the giant bomb folks mentioned it and it's odd you wouldn't film the actual child you're talking to (and presumably whom the dad has never seen).
and the whole disembodied face deal just looks really haunting from some angles in a way that seems at odds with the scene
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i was super into the concept of the Created, and i like that even if that war is over, the idea of using smart ai basically as tools and not acknowledging them as people can't go on. it's fairly well-worn sci fi ground, but cortana's breakdown of her motivations and thought process sold it for me. plus that scene where Sloan (the ai mayor of the city on the glassed planet) is included among the chorus of voices joining cortana was a great payoff on how shifty he seemed when you first met him.
And Roland just casually refusing to join is a real underrated thing about the ending.
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so in the final game, do you think they'll make the pilot's hologram actually show his kid + a slightly less creepy image of the wife? the giant bomb folks mentioned it and it's odd you wouldn't film the actual child you're talking to (and presumably whom the dad has never seen).
and the whole disembodied face deal just looks really haunting from some angles in a way that seems at odds with the scene
Infinite needs to bring the Didact back - he would make an unlikely temporary ally, as he would like try to take the Domain from Cortana.
I also think they need a good Cortana to still be alive - the handling of 5 just was so odd that it needs to not be the last iteration of that character.
I still say bring the Forerunners back, as actual living creatures.
I also think they need a good Cortana to still be alive - the handling of 5 just was so odd that it needs to not be the last iteration of that character.
I still say bring the Forerunners back, as actual living creatures.
The Didact would be a mistake to bring back if this is a reentry point for the franchise, a positive of the Created is they allow mystery to remain with the Forerunners.
That would be kinda disappointing. Halo 5's multiplayer beta was so early that it allowed for big changes to happen before release.
If the beta launches in 2020 and there's something that needs to be changed or overhauled, would 343 have the time to do it?
agreed. I also like the idea that there were no surviving forerunners besides him, or at least that we'll never know what happened to the group that went exploring beyond known space after activating the rings.
it would be fine if one big redesigned promethean boss was revealed to be him in some hidden datapad or something.
Since he was Composed (despite being canonically immune to the Composer) in that one shitty comic, it would be neat to see a digitized version of him come back in a minor capacity.
I still want to see IsoDidact/Bornstellar pop up somehow though.
Also where the fuck is my Guilty Spark payoff.
I still want to see IsoDidact/Bornstellar pop up somehow though.
Also where the fuck is my Guilty Spark payoff.
I feel like bringing Didact back would be as big a plot contrivance as having Cortana survive and turn bad off screen.
I hope plot developments feel like they are the result of characters making decisions and taking actions in line with their established personalities and characteristics. No more of this "guess what! X is back now somehow, and badder than ever, because the plot demands it"
If they were going to bring Didact back in, it should be in Easter egg / cameo capacity, not as a principle villain.
I hope plot developments feel like they are the result of characters making decisions and taking actions in line with their established personalities and characteristics. No more of this "guess what! X is back now somehow, and badder than ever, because the plot demands it"
If they were going to bring Didact back in, it should be in Easter egg / cameo capacity, not as a principle villain.
That reminds me: Exuberant Witness should come back. chakas can do his thing in some book I'll never read.
I'm down for more Exuberant. Best on-screen 343i character.
Exuberant Witness was definitely the best character in H5. I don't know if that's a good or bad thing.
as someone who liked halo 5 and its new characters, i absolutely think she's the best character it introduced and i think that without it having any negative connotations.
Is that the one where they go hit the reset button on the Domain or whatever?
the domain is a perfect example of something that wouldn't be confusing if you didnt read the books, but is very confusing if you did. like, my understanding was that activating the halos wiped out the domain because it was made of life energy or whatever. but ok, fine, it got reset!
Didn't the events on Requiem basically reawaken a bunch of forerunner stuff?
Maybe part of that was a reactivation of the Domain.
I mean it's not like having Requiem remain intact would have prevented them from having a focus on Halos. And we still didn't set foot on a Halo in Halo 5.
I've wanted to write these scattered thoughts down for a while now, but never got around to doing it so here it goes.
The discussion of Cortana dying is something that has always somewhat irritated me. The major themes of Halo 4 were mortality and companionship. Halo has always had a lot of technobabble, so it's understandable that they tried to find to warm up to the franchise to new players by using relatable real-life subject matter--Cortana's rampancy being a mirror for dementia for example. That is fine, but at the same time it's a minefield to traverse, because it can warp beloved characters into completely new people. And no, it's not maturing them because it takes no account of their previous experiences or status.
What's utterly strange about Halo 4 is that Chief and Cortana are barely even acknowledged by the in-game universe. Most of all the side characters just brush aside them or have some pent up animosity again them even though they've been drifting in space for years without contact. The in-game universe straight up rejects them at every turn. Then it hits, Chief and Cortana are not the same people you knew from the original series. They're new characters with different motivations and demons that are placed into established characters. I don't know or recognise these people in the game, who are these two mopey characters and why is their own universe is rejecting them. It's unearned conflict for the sake of conflict.
Aside from that, they've tried hard to sell the issues of rampancy and mortality. Cool subject matters and it has clearly been hit for a lot of people, because people can't stop talking about how they enjoyed the relationship between Chief and Cortana, her death being emotional and how it should stay that way. The issue is though, the game, maybe not effectively, drops hints that she was never going to die. It was about survival at any cost, not death. If you replay the game, you notice that after they're into Requiem, portals were being opened and Cortana being startled, her meeting the Librarian and we don't know what they discussed and finally she somehow knows everything in the end and talks without fear. Clearly, she is trying to survive even if it leads to difficult choices.
Yes, other games have done this, given small hits but let the linear story play out and then let the community debate it until the next game. The issue is that they leaned so hard into the "new" Chief and Cortana's relationship that they forgot the larger universe. People's emotional attachment was that relationship, not that it is a sci-fi universe about rings that are weapons of mass destruction, AI's playing critical role within the world or the different factions and their motivations. The universe was reduced to these two characters and that is it. On a side note, this also makes their relationship even weirder without the context of the universe--the whole sexual angle is uncomfortable to watch.
Bungie's Halo avoided leaning too hard on just one story aspect, it always felt that there was more going on and you will likely get a payoff that has more layers than a character dying. Bungie's secrets on why Destiny feels so lived in, is that there is always conflict at every corner of their universe. They might not succeed at making everything interesting, but when it's good, it has a real effect on the on-going world of Destiny. Somebody noticed this too at 343, because Halo 5 goes straight on trying to sell you a universe--they introduced new characters, beloved book characters, new places, highlighted the factions. Problems is, this course correction felt sudden and alienating.
Now imagine, people who loved the emotional core story of Halo 4, with the universe as backdrop, wanted the same high that game gave them and now they find out that isn't the main focus of the next game. They're thrusted into a universe that is on-going and there is no real emotional entry point to it. And above all, when meet Chief, he is the soldier we knew from the original trilogy--respected, a leader and smart, not a mopy depressed man. This Cortana is somewhat what we remember, focused, diligent and above all swagger for days. They're being introduced for the first time to fans of Halo 4. Great right? No, it's all so sudden and unearned. They don't know these people and have yet to be properly introduced to them. They tried to do that letting players looking through the lens of Osiris, but created this issue that observing isn't the same as being in Chief and Blue Team's shoes.
The intentions were right on both games, but it just feels like they both botched selling you a universe to actually care about. A good clean slate, clear motivations and a lived in world is what this franchise needs to go back to.
The discussion of Cortana dying is something that has always somewhat irritated me. The major themes of Halo 4 were mortality and companionship. Halo has always had a lot of technobabble, so it's understandable that they tried to find to warm up to the franchise to new players by using relatable real-life subject matter--Cortana's rampancy being a mirror for dementia for example. That is fine, but at the same time it's a minefield to traverse, because it can warp beloved characters into completely new people. And no, it's not maturing them because it takes no account of their previous experiences or status.
What's utterly strange about Halo 4 is that Chief and Cortana are barely even acknowledged by the in-game universe. Most of all the side characters just brush aside them or have some pent up animosity again them even though they've been drifting in space for years without contact. The in-game universe straight up rejects them at every turn. Then it hits, Chief and Cortana are not the same people you knew from the original series. They're new characters with different motivations and demons that are placed into established characters. I don't know or recognise these people in the game, who are these two mopey characters and why is their own universe is rejecting them. It's unearned conflict for the sake of conflict.
Aside from that, they've tried hard to sell the issues of rampancy and mortality. Cool subject matters and it has clearly been hit for a lot of people, because people can't stop talking about how they enjoyed the relationship between Chief and Cortana, her death being emotional and how it should stay that way. The issue is though, the game, maybe not effectively, drops hints that she was never going to die. It was about survival at any cost, not death. If you replay the game, you notice that after they're into Requiem, portals were being opened and Cortana being startled, her meeting the Librarian and we don't know what they discussed and finally she somehow knows everything in the end and talks without fear. Clearly, she is trying to survive even if it leads to difficult choices.
Yes, other games have done this, given small hits but let the linear story play out and then let the community debate it until the next game. The issue is that they leaned so hard into the "new" Chief and Cortana's relationship that they forgot the larger universe. People's emotional attachment was that relationship, not that it is a sci-fi universe about rings that are weapons of mass destruction, AI's playing critical role within the world or the different factions and their motivations. The universe was reduced to these two characters and that is it. On a side note, this also makes their relationship even weirder without the context of the universe--the whole sexual angle is uncomfortable to watch.
Bungie's Halo avoided leaning too hard on just one story aspect, it always felt that there was more going on and you will likely get a payoff that has more layers than a character dying. Bungie's secrets on why Destiny feels so lived in, is that there is always conflict at every corner of their universe. They might not succeed at making everything interesting, but when it's good, it has a real effect on the on-going world of Destiny. Somebody noticed this too at 343, because Halo 5 goes straight on trying to sell you a universe--they introduced new characters, beloved book characters, new places, highlighted the factions. Problems is, this course correction felt sudden and alienating.
Now imagine, people who loved the emotional core story of Halo 4, with the universe as backdrop, wanted the same high that game gave them and now they find out that isn't the main focus of the next game. They're thrusted into a universe that is on-going and there is no real emotional entry point to it. And above all, when meet Chief, he is the soldier we knew from the original trilogy--respected, a leader and smart, not a mopy depressed man. This Cortana is somewhat what we remember, focused, diligent and above all swagger for days. They're being introduced for the first time to fans of Halo 4. Great right? No, it's all so sudden and unearned. They don't know these people and have yet to be properly introduced to them. They tried to do that letting players looking through the lens of Osiris, but created this issue that observing isn't the same as being in Chief and Blue Team's shoes.
The intentions were right on both games, but it just feels like they both botched selling you a universe to actually care about. A good clean slate, clear motivations and a lived in world is what this franchise needs to go back to.
i agree with a lot of this. theres no need for a full reboot, refocusing is what has really been needed
Play MCC? It works great these days.
Speaking of Eldorito.
When can we get those exclusive maps in MCC?
I'm waiting for MCC PC. I didn't bother getting Xbox One since Halo has been trash since 3 for me.
At the end of the day, I think the problem with both games center around the concepts of character development and world building.
With Halo 4 you might argue that Chief and Cortana are unrecognizable from the original trilogy - but since they were actually treated with proper character arcs, I didn't see this as problematic other than the weird, implied romantic angle.
The problem in this game was the world building. The Didact was a one dimensional character. The Librarian was a dues ex machina and her information dump was simply a poor way to introduce the new faction - too much tell, not enough show. With the antagonism coming from the UNSC, they didn't even present a compelling reason for that behavior - they just expected players to accept that it happens.
The problem with Halo 5 is that it's all plot, no character. There are literally 0 character arcs present in the game. Osiris was supposed to be a lense to view Chiefs character... But they never observed Chiefs character. Instead we spent a bunch of time with Osiris performing the plot's required deeds, while occasionally mentioning that they are tracking chief down. The Universe they were supposed to be setting up was behind a curtain the whole time. Population centers are being devastated by the awakening of the Gaurdians? But we play these events from a mining community, and an ocean... The principle antagonist became a mass murderer offscreen. The AI rebellion had no buildup.
The problem with Halo 5's story is that nothing really happens...
The whole plot summary is basically:
"Chief has a vision, goes AWOL, discovers Cortana is alive and wants to take over the galaxy".
Oh and Jul dies in the first 15 minutes.
It was almost entirely just cleaning up loose ends from 4 and setting up Halo Infinite.
The whole plot summary is basically:
"Chief has a vision, goes AWOL, discovers Cortana is alive and wants to take over the galaxy".
Oh and Jul dies in the first 15 minutes.
It was almost entirely just cleaning up loose ends from 4 and setting up Halo Infinite.
on the macro level nothing happens, on the personal level a whole lot happens. it's set up for character beats and growth that do actually follow through and reach conclusions throughout the story.
the stakes in halo 5 are not "you gotta save the galaxy", but rather "you gotta save chief from this unhealthy relationship that's being used to manipulate him". At one point Kelly asks no-one in particular if blue team is "fighting a losing battle". In my opinion loss and losing is the theme of Halo 5, in many different contexts.
I can definitely understand that being unsatisfying, but after halo 4, which rushed through an entire trilogy's worth of major events and revelations, it was a nice change of pace for me, and very different for a halo plot.
hopefully infinite can strike the right balance that people are looking for, and progress the larger plot points to a conclusion at the same time as the personal ones
If I don't reply to your post, I pretty much agree with you and have nothing really to add to it. Everybody seems to have a good grasp on the bigger issues plaguing the newer games.
Halo 5 has a host of problems, but on paper it's a novel idea. It takes inspiration from ODST, a semi detective game instead of the space-opera focus of the original trilogy. It just didn't quite work, it's more disjointed and feels somewhat inconsequential. From my understanding, reading from some snippets of commentary by former designers and some art books, is that they had to cut substantial parts of levels, so that would contribute to the feeling of it not being fully realized.
Halo 5 has a host of problems, but on paper it's a novel idea. It takes inspiration from ODST, a semi detective game instead of the space-opera focus of the original trilogy. It just didn't quite work, it's more disjointed and feels somewhat inconsequential. From my understanding, reading from some snippets of commentary by former designers and some art books, is that they had to cut substantial parts of levels, so that would contribute to the feeling of it not being fully realized.
H5 was just so damn boring.
Chief goes to finds Cortana, who in all honesty shouldn't have made a return from H4.
Play as a fire team with zero personality (besides Buck).
Fight the same boss a million times.
Lackluster levels (besides Sanghelios).
It just wasn't fun at all. The story was underwhelming and the game play/level design/encounters weren't that great either, so there's no reason to replay it.
It was just average.
Chief goes to finds Cortana, who in all honesty shouldn't have made a return from H4.
Play as a fire team with zero personality (besides Buck).
Fight the same boss a million times.
Lackluster levels (besides Sanghelios).
It just wasn't fun at all. The story was underwhelming and the game play/level design/encounters weren't that great either, so there's no reason to replay it.
It was just average.
Nope, that's Fractures. Renegades has
343GS dynamite fishing and getting his face painted.
And other stuff, but that will forever be the standout moment.
The Domain got nuked by the Halos, but the last surviving Forerunners basically jumped it shortly thereafter. It's sort of a quasi-organic living thing so it slowly healed (though apparently not to the extent that it could stop the Didact from going stir-crazy.)
a lot of things there are very ymmv, but in terms of level and encounter design i thought it was a standout in the series. so many fights and arenas i remembered very clearly versus some halos where they blended together. im going to replay it again soon so maybe ill find flaws with it i haven't yet noticed.
Edit: also the Warden fight isn't as bad as it's made out to be. each time you fight him its in a slightly different context (alone, with enemies, two of him with enemies, three of him alone) and i thought it was an interesting way to practice boss design in an fps by having a fictional conceit that allowed it to support multiple encounters.
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Yup.
The Sanghelios string of levels are my favourite in the series. Almost every encounter is super memorable and really well designed.
Man, I've been booting up Halo Reach the last few days, and Forge World really is a drag. I didn't mind Paradiso at launch but Hemorrhage got old fast, and the BTB playlist left behind offers Forge maps for 2/3 or 3/3 of the voting options everytime. I know people rag on some of Reach's BTB maps but I just want to see some of the maps with character, like Spire, Boneyard, and god forbid the DLC stuff like Breakpoint and Highlands. Not sure why the game forces you to have DLC nowadays but never puts those up.
Halo 5 is the exact same thing and doesn't even have an alternative, which is why MCC is a massive breath of fresh air with tons of variety and only the rare Forge variant. I assume because they have the content these Forge variants will go by the wayside, but I wonder if Paradiso and Hemorrhage will still be common?
Halo 5 is the exact same thing and doesn't even have an alternative, which is why MCC is a massive breath of fresh air with tons of variety and only the rare Forge variant. I assume because they have the content these Forge variants will go by the wayside, but I wonder if Paradiso and Hemorrhage will still be common?
I can't remember any particularly good visual areas from Genesis. Besides the one on the back of the Guardian.
I thought Requiem was a more interesting place 99% of the time.
I thought Requiem was a more interesting place 99% of the time.
Sanghelios and Blue Team are up there with some of the best sections in the series.
I didn't feel like any other encounters were all that memorable though.
Genesis was visually appealing
Which characters did you feel grew over the course of the game? I felt like every character was either one-note, or completely irrelevant and only existed to validate the squad system.
I didn't feel like any other encounters were all that memorable though.
Genesis was visually appealing
Which characters did you feel grew over the course of the game? I felt like every character was either one-note, or completely irrelevant and only existed to validate the squad system.
The opening encounter in Glassed after you step out of the space elevator building is really good.
Tons of flanking routes and options in how to approach. Also a good variety of ordnance and some neat side objectives.
I love that how you approach the mission changes how the NPCs react to you too.
I don't particularly Remember that one, I'll have to go back and play it,
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