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Halo |OT| She's Gone, Sir

BizzyBum

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,655
New York
That meme will live on forever in Halo history. The balloons that are tied to a fucking weight is what makes it. Still hilarious (and sad) today as it was back then.

But yeah, they fucked up by not going with MLG from the start and having horrendous forced settings for HCS like it was some social slayer matchmaking game. It took 343i two years, TWO YEARS, to get rid of crap from HCS like automatics, default radar, splinter nades, awful spartan abilities. etc. even though the entire time both pros and fans wanted them gone pretty much from the start.

Their vision of a shared sandbox for both social and competitive failed spectacularly, so one can only hope they do what Bungie did with Halo 3 and have completely separate settings for HCS and social.
 

Rodeo Clown

Member
Dec 14, 2017
841
MLG dropped Halo, though, not the other way around. MLG decided Halo was no longer viable after the troubles with competitive Reach and H4. Would you blame them for thinking H5 would go the same way when 343 did a poor job of supporting competitive play across both previous titles and they seemed actively designed against it? H2A was basically the first time they tried to have a serious viable competitive scene. That had issues, too, though.

MLG did come back for some H5 tournaments at the end, at least? I guess we'll see if they come back for Infinite. I doubt it.
 

BizzyBum

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,655
New York
I don't really feel like looking it up, but I'm pretty sure there was a big thing that got leaked or whatever saying MLG would have been fine with Halo5 but 343 was stubborn and stuck with ESL or something along those lines. I forgot where I read it and I'm sure I'm missing a ton of details, maybe someone else will have it on hand.
 

Trup1aya

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,544
MLG dropped Halo, though, not the other way around. MLG decided Halo was no longer viable after the troubles with competitive Reach and H4. Would you blame them for thinking H5 would go the same way when 343 did a poor job of supporting competitive play across both previous titles and they seemed actively designed against it? H2A was basically the first time they tried to have a serious viable competitive scene. That had issues, too, though.

MLG did come back for some H5 tournaments at the end, at least? I guess we'll see if they come back for Infinite. I doubt it.
MLG dropped Halo Reach. 343 subsequently signed an exclusive deal with Virgin Gaming for Halo 4. Xbox marketing hired MLG to host a few of the tournaments leading up to the first World Championships and they were all well received. Then, 343 signed an exclusive deal with ESL without even taking proposals or bids from anyone else.

It makes no sense for 343 to have had some sort of grudge with MLG. And if they wanted the best for Halo esports, you'd think they would have shopped around for the best vision.

ESLs pro league plans were doomed from the start. It was designed to feature primarily online play and to hamstring up and coming players from overtaking elite players - the very essence that drives interest in esports.
 
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IHaveIce

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
1,370
MLG dropped Halo Reach. 343 subsequently signed an exclusive deal with Virgin Gaming for Halo 4. Xbox marketing hired MLG to host a few of the tournaments leading up to the first World Championships and they were all well received. Then, 343 signed an exclusive deal with ESL without even taking proposals or bids from anyone else.

It makes no sense for 343 to have had some sort of grudge with MLG. And if they wanted the best for Halo esports, you'd think they would have shopped around for the best vision.

ESLs pro league plans were doomed from the start. It was designed to feature primarily online play and to hamstring up and coming players from overtaking elite players - the very essence that drives interest in esports.
The last part is only true for console esports it seems.

The most popular esports scenes are in a proleague format most prominently League of Legends.

I accepted that Halo esports will always be a niche compared to the big ones.
 

Trup1aya

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,544
The last part is only true for console esports it seems.

The most popular esports scenes are in a proleague format most prominently League of Legends.

I accepted that Halo esports will always be a niche compared to the big ones.
Key to esports is the opportunity to rise through the ranks. The nature of PC gaming communities is such that there's always an abundance of networks that can feed competitive scenes.

On consoles, where a given game's competitive life is shortened by routine releases, there's a always going to be a need to actively foster that sort of engagement - limiting interact to a single online league isn't going to cut it.
 

Rodeo Clown

Member
Dec 14, 2017
841
MLG dropped Halo Reach. 343 subsequently signed an exclusive deal with Virgin Gaming for Halo 4.
I seem to remember the first H4 tournament was on MLG and then they dropped Halo?

Regardless, 343 has not done an awesome job of fostering a competitive community over the course of a couple of titles now. I understand that they're gearing up for Infinite, but they're basically leaving the pro scene for dead for two entire years right now.
 

Trup1aya

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,544
I seem to remember the first H4 tournament was on MLG and then they dropped Halo?

Regardless, 343 has not done an awesome job of fostering a competitive community over the course of a couple of titles now. I understand that they're gearing up for Infinite, but they're basically leaving the pro scene for dead for two entire years right now.
There was a pre-release tournament hosted by MLG, then Virgin Gaming was given exclusive rights, but only had a single competitive tournament and it was FFA.

I think once Virgin Gaming ended up being nothing, no established TOs had interest in the game, which was already struggling to interest competitive players due to its design, so ALG was founded and ran tourneys in basements.
 

Defect

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,609
Man, Infinite is going to have a huge launch regardless if it’s good or bad.

Now’s the time to remove sprint.
 

BizzyBum

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,655
New York
I honestly never understand when people say Halo 5 "is not Halo" or "didn't feel like Halo."

It's a helluva lot more Halo than 4 was. Feels like a more modern, faster paced Halo 2. Of course it has sprint and questionable spartan abilities but it still plays like Halo to me.
 

Ozzy Onya A2Z

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,223
Infinite, for me, has to feel as good or better than Destiny 2. Halo 5 didn't feel like Halo to me, so I'm pretty cautious and hopeful that 343 will nail Infinite.
D2 is too slow, feels like H3 all over again but lovely gunplay yes. Infinite has to feel closer to Apex for me (perhaps a slightly higher TTK), which Halo 5 was close to anyhow. My trouble for H5 was that Halo magic of mistakes cost you a respawn was sort of gone with all the abilities. Thruster was especially detrimental in changing that feel of Halo combat, e.g. jump forward left during a fight then thruster instantly back right while bobbing your head as well. It gave an unpredictableness during engagements/reengagements. H5 has great movement and gunplay and obviously the 60fps over D2 but just that combat loop became too complex and unpredictable in the end I think. Just even using all the buttons in H5 took so much trial and error in layouts/elite controller setups and still felt overwhelming.

For my friends that stopped playing it was all too sweaty and esports like, in any mode really. When that combat loop is built for tight quarters, symmetrical gameplay and essentially no radar it's moved away from that core 1-3+Reach experience. 343 then built all modes from that. I want to see Infinite return to Halo competitive fun, not sweaty maps/modes/sandbox. A nuance for sure but it's where my Halo clique feels things fell apart. We miss BTB or objective flag/bomb or 4v4 light vehicles for example.

If you even look at the environments of D2 and Apex the visuals and lines are clean cut, there isn't all this geometry/detail getting in the way of movement or signt lines or bouncing grenades etc. Now that MCC is solid you can literally see that magic of old Halo games and clean encounters, gameplay, maps and geometry. It holds up even today.
 

Anton

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
412
Halo 3 is so trash nowadays, does anyone that actually likes it played it at all since 2009 or whatever cus that netcode and the spread on everything just feels so awful
 
Sep 4, 2019
433
Halo 3 is so trash nowadays, does anyone that actually likes it played it at all since 2009 or whatever cus that netcode and the spread on everything just feels so awful
Are you talking about the MCC version? 343 still never addressed the shooting feeling off. I didn't believe it until I played the MCC version and original Halo 3 version right after. It's like night and day.
 

Anton

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
412
Oh that deadzone bollocks is just down to how they've altered the controllers, it's identical code wise
 

fuchsdh

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,189

Trup1aya

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,544
I honestly never understand when people say Halo 5 "is not Halo" or "didn't feel like Halo."

It's a helluva lot more Halo than 4 was. Feels like a more modern, faster paced Halo 2. Of course it has sprint and questionable spartan abilities but it still plays like Halo to me.
Feeling more like Halo than H4 isn't exactly saying much.

It really doesn't feel like a faster paced Halo2. I pretty much spent this cycle jumping back and forth between Halo2A and Halo5. H2s empowerment to look and maximize movement independent of one another should not be understated. It leads to a generally faster game speed and presents a fundamental difference in how players engage with each other compared to Halo 5.

There are a lot of times when H5 "feels like Halo to me", but there are a lot of times when it doesn't - and it usually boils down to those instances where either me or my opponent are better off Focusing on one direction and breaking out into a sprint
 

Prinz Eugn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
701
I do wonder why they decided against a Halo 3 Anniversary. They could have slid that in this year or even last.
Probably not enough resources (or willingness to dedicate resources) between Halo 5 development and MCC post-release re-development. Plus, Halo 3 in MCC is decent enough with 1080p and 60fps for people who really have a nostalgia boner for it.

But still, this wait is super shitty, it would have been nice to have had something new-ish. I wish Reach was out in the spring of this year at least.
 

Forerunner

The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
5,373
San Diego
At this rate I'm wondering if we'll even get Reach this year. I don't mind a long wait for the next title, but they should have better support for their latest title. I know they are working on MCC, but that's not exactly new content (fixing a game(s) from 2014 and also porting it to PC). You could argue Reach is new content, but that's splitting hairs. What I'm getting at is H5 should have been better supported until the launch of Infinite.
 

EvilChameleon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,412
Youngstown, Ohio
Yeah, the developers abandoned Halo 5 for Halo: MCC, the game the players abandoned. I was still playing Halo 5 a couple days a month there to get my ranks when they reset every so often.
 

BizzyBum

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,655
New York
Shit, now I'm all gloomy for Infinite, too.

I mean, 343 just has an awful track record. Halo 4, MCC launch, Halo 5 campaign with barebones MP at launch, Halo 5's super premature death, MCC PC and Reach taking absolutely forever to come out, their esports disasters... should I keep going?