• The GiftBot 2.0 Launch Giveaway Extravaganza has come to a close with an astounding 8073 games given away to the community by 696 members, a huge success thanks to you! The gifting now continues with more official prizes in the new Gaming Giveaways |OT|. Leftover Steam codes are also being given away to the PC Gaming Era community.

Halo |OT| She's Gone, Sir

jem

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,752
Has 343 released any of their own maps that are of the same calibre of maps such as Lockout, Pit, Guardian, Blood Gulch? Not trying to shit talk I just genuinely don't know anything about the Halo maps post Reach (and Reach's maps were trash).
Halo 5's core arena selection is pretty good.

Coliseum, Fathom, Plaza, Eden, Truth (yes it's a Midship remake but it's still good) are all really good.

I'd say Coliseum is of a similar calibre to those you listed.
 

nillapuddin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,326
Has 343 released any of their own maps that are of the same calibre of maps such as Lockout, Pit, Guardian, Blood Gulch? Not trying to shit talk I just genuinely don't know anything about the Halo maps post Reach (and Reach's maps were trash).
Halo 4 has super good maps that are overlooked

Halo 5 has... a couple good maps

But I dont believe any of them are I C O N I C
 

Stopdoor

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,151
I dunno, big team battle-wise I can't think of any Halo 4 or 5 map that evokes the feel of classics like Headlong, Zanzibar, Sandtrap. All I can think of are endless riffing on the Blood Gulch two-bases across a canyon approach. Exile is alright I guess? Like really, I can't think of an interesting asymmetrical map in recent Halo games.
 

Cranster

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,761
Halo 5 didn't have any actual decent asymmetric maps simply because they never included official 1 flag/bomb
 
Last edited:

Stopdoor

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,151
Eden and Plaza are both really good asymmetric maps.
Plaza isn't a asymmetrical map like Headlong or Zanzibar. They're just Swiss cheese boxes. It's just not the same feel. I don't really remember Eden but watching a video of it it really doesn't look assymetrical to a serious degree?

Kills me to see people praising Halo 5 gameplay as the best in the series in the birthday thread gaming-side as if BTB maps are like some minor factor of "gameplay".
 

Cranster

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,761
Plaza isn't a asymmetrical map like Headlong or Zanzibar. They're just Swiss cheese boxes. It's just not the same feel. I don't really remember Eden but watching a video of it it really doesn't look assymetrical to a serious degree?

Kills me to see people praising Halo 5 gameplay as the best in the series in the birthday thread gaming-side as if BTB maps are like some minor factor of "gameplay".
I'd argue that Halo 5's base gameplay (or gunplay rather) is the best in the series since Halo 2. Praising aspects of Halo 5's gameplay does not mean defending the lack of excellent multiplayer maps (both small, medium and BTB maps).
 

Stopdoor

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,151
I'd argue that Halo 5's base gameplay (or gunplay rather) is the best in the series since Halo 2. Praising aspects of Halo 5's gameplay does not mean defending the lack of excellent multiplayer maps (both small, medium and BTB maps).
Most people in that thread go on just about how it has the best "multiplayer", so they've clearly made peace with a bad BTB experience. Weird people.
 

FUNKNOWN iXi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,495
Making a wish on 343 for my ideal Halo

  • No sprint
  • No "smart scope"/ADS
  • No slide, charge, clamber or stabilizer
  • Keep the pistol as the primary utility weapon
  • Retain thruster, reduce magnetism and improve net code so using thruster actually works.
  • Help FUNKNOWN be less better at Halo, he's so great and I'm just so jealous at this point.
Maybe one day.
Most people in that thread go on just about how it has the best "multiplayer", so they've clearly made peace with a bad BTB experience. Weird people.
What's your favorite Halo multiplayer?
 

Stopdoor

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,151
Maybe one day.

What's your favorite Halo multiplayer?
I'm not picky, I love the variety grab bag of MCC and don't even mind Halo 4 when it comes up as a palette cleanser. There's a ton of classic maps between 2 to Reach and stuff like Spire doesn't seem all that different from Headlong to me for BTB chaos, there's just nothing like those in Halo 4 and 5.

MCC is also mostly free of Forge ugliness, the colour palette of Halo 5 depresses me. Honestly nostalgic for grey/green Reach Forge maps because at least it was textured and not so... muddy and weirdly lit? I dunno.
 

op_ivy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,147
Ill have you know, I use adobe fireworks smartass
lol, sorry. it just felt like this "conversation" has happened over and over again and (of course) no ones mind is changed on what is a good/bad halo map. your adobe fireworks posts (didn't recall who specifically!) just stood out in my mind from the last go around. i meant no offense!
 

nillapuddin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,326
lol, sorry. it just felt like this "conversation" has happened over and over again and (of course) no ones mind is changed on what is a good/bad halo map. your adobe fireworks posts (didn't recall who specifically!) just stood out in my mind from the last go around. i meant no offense!
I was totally kidding, fireworks is some completely defunct program I think they stopped updating like 10 years ago but I love it lol

and I LOVE making those big huge images, lol, I was halfway tempted to see if theres some version of that topic I havent done one of yet


and yeah, no matter what the "consensus" is on maps, its somehow never a "consensus" beyond like the top 3 maps, my best friend is an adamant Backwash apologist and I literally almost fight him everyday
 

op_ivy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,147
I was totally kidding, fireworks is some completely defunct program I think they stopped updating like 10 years ago but I love it lol

and I LOVE making those big huge images, lol, I was halfway tempted to see if theres some version of that topic I havent done one of yet


and yeah, no matter what the "consensus" is on maps, its somehow never a "consensus" beyond like the top 3 maps, my best friend is an adamant Backwash apologist and I literally almost fight him everyday
its hard to read tone in a post and re-reading my post i could see how that could have came off dickish.



speaking of maps, what if 343 took some of the best communkty/mlg forge maps and used that as a basis to create real dev maps from those ideas? assuming they properly credited/compensated the original authors, i think this could be a cool way to bring in a bunch of battle tested content AND connect with the community. seeing something like echelon, but polished up for oddball at launch would be cool. actually, having oddball at launch in itself would be cool, hahah
 

nillapuddin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,326
its hard to read tone in a post and re-reading my post i could see how that could have came off dickish.



speaking of maps, what if 343 took some of the best communkty/mlg forge maps and used that as a basis to create real dev maps from those ideas? assuming they properly credited/compensated the original authors, i think this could be a cool way to bring in a bunch of battle tested content AND connect with the community. seeing something like echelon, but polished up for oddball at launch would be cool. actually, having oddball at launch in itself would be cool, hahah
for real, no worries, I knew you were kidding, so was I


and I like that idea for sure, some form of it certainly
 

Chitown B

Member
Nov 15, 2017
4,211
Halo 4 has super good maps that are overlooked

Halo 5 has... a couple good maps

But I dont believe any of them are I C O N I C
IMO you can't have iconic anything in 3rd and 4th sequels. It's too far down the road in the series. Maps are iconic mostly because they're nostalgic, and you can only get that nostalgia closer to the original thing.
 

jem

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,752
Plaza isn't a asymmetrical map like Headlong or Zanzibar. They're just Swiss cheese boxes. It's just not the same feel. I don't really remember Eden but watching a video of it it really doesn't look assymetrical to a serious degree?

Kills me to see people praising Halo 5 gameplay as the best in the series in the birthday thread gaming-side as if BTB maps are like some minor factor of "gameplay".
What do you mean by "asymmetrical like Headlong..."?

They're maps without symmetry... ie: asymmetrical.



The BTB forge maps play pretty damn well from what I recall. The fact that they aren't pretty developer maps doesn't affect the gameplay.
 

nillapuddin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,326
IMO you can't have iconic anything in 3rd and 4th sequels. It's too far down the road in the series. Maps are iconic mostly because they're nostalgic, and you can only get that nostalgia closer to the original thing.
There is some hint of truth to that, but mostly those early maps just had a huge attachment rate, they were identifiers for the whole game.

Halo CE, Blood Gulch
Halo 2, Lockout/Midship
Halo 3, Pit, Guardian, Valhalla

Like what is "the map" of Halo 4 or 5 that will forever hold your joy?

Halo 4 I off the top of my head, Exile?
Halo 5... big-ship?

In 10 years are you really gonna look back fondly on any map from 5?

I've argued 4 has great maps, but none of them break the stratosphere, like I can't wait to play the game so I can play this map because I LOVE it

Idk I’d consider Sword Base pretty iconic/horrible.
there isn't a day of the year I would turn down oddbase swordball
 

Stopdoor

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,151
What do you mean by "asymmetrical like Headlong..."?

They're maps without symmetry... ie: asymmetrical.



The BTB forge maps play pretty damn well from what I recall. The fact that they aren't pretty developer maps doesn't affect the gameplay.
I mean, someone brought up the below as an asymmetrical map - this is not what I'd call an asymmetrical map. And really, I'm talking about BTB here anyway.



And arguing that aesthetics are completely irrelevant to the enjoyment of the gameplay is kind of silly from a series that was legendary for its sheer atmosphere. Like, it's obvious no one would be happy with more and more maps looking like Breakout maps. Forge maps in Halo 5 come awfully close to that feel with the weird lack of texture and bad lighting, does it zero favours for "atmosphere".
 

nillapuddin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,326
Forge maps in Halo 5 come awfully close to that feel with the weird lack of texture and bad lighting, does it zero favours for "atmosphere".
That may be true of launch forge maps, and I don't know everything that gets into MM nowadays, but there are alot of forge maps that really sell themselves way above just space legos.
 

Stopdoor

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,151
That may be true of launch forge maps, and I don't know everything that gets into MM nowadays, but there are alot of forge maps that really sell themselves way above just space legos.
I dunno, I scroll through this recent article and I feel myself becoming a graphics snob. The ideas are cool, the atmosphere is just totally blown out and these shots look extremely unflattering from what should be an Xbox-One-X-enhanced game.


And yeah this is getting pretty complain-y but when I search "Halo <x> multiplayer screenshots", you can see things have pretty obviously gone wrong somewhere in lighting and colour palette between Halo 3 to Reach to 4 to 5. The atmosphere seems totally bungled.




 

Chitown B

Member
Nov 15, 2017
4,211
There is some hint of truth to that, but mostly those early maps just had a huge attachment rate, they were identifiers for the whole game.

Halo CE, Blood Gulch
Halo 2, Lockout/Midship
Halo 3, Pit, Guardian, Valhalla

Like what is "the map" of Halo 4 or 5 that will forever hold your joy?

Halo 4 I off the top of my head, Exile?
Halo 5... big-ship?

In 10 years are you really gonna look back fondly on any map from 5?
Agreed.
 

Prinz Eugn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
768
I mean, someone brought up the below as an asymmetrical map - this is not what I'd call an asymmetrical map. And really, I'm talking about BTB here anyway.



And arguing that aesthetics are completely irrelevant to the enjoyment of the gameplay is kind of silly from a series that was legendary for its sheer atmosphere. Like, it's obvious no one would be happy with more and more maps looking like Breakout maps. Forge maps in Halo 5 come awfully close to that feel with the weird lack of texture and bad lighting, does it zero favours for "atmosphere".
Aesthetics aren't completely irrelevant but you stop noticing it on a multiplayer map after like the first minute of play and only start noticing it again after you play the map a few dozen times. Well, I guess unless if you are some role-playing lore weirdo going into matchmaking - sorry, "War Games" - for "atmosphere." Aesthetics quickly takes a back seat to gameplay for most people.

There's also a point where a map is "pretty enough" that it really doesn't matter very much either way. Reach Forge, yeah, that gray became soul draining after 3 years, but Halo 5 forge maps these days are actually very nice looking since they've been updated fairly consistently.
 

nillapuddin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,326
I dunno, I scroll through this recent article and I feel myself becoming a graphics snob. The ideas are cool, the atmosphere is just totally blown out and these shots look extremely unflattering from what should be an Xbox-One-X-enhanced game.
Well to be fair that is action sack, I wouldn't say these are pushing the graphically boundaries of what's possible in forge, but if you're for example on any WyvernZu map it's really immersive.
(the crypt? you could straight up convince me that is from Destiny.)

Forge is a fickle beast, the amount of knobs and levers and increments of those you need to get just right to make something look great is immense.

I would call myself a very experienced forger who has a vast understanding of the tool, and I still have trouble visually dialing in (the atmosphere)

I would kill for someone like Wyvern to beautify my maps tbh, lighting is one of the biggest hurdles but we do have the capability of nailing it.

Just to be clear, I think you're half right. I just wouldn't completely throw Forge maps out with the bath water, and maps appearing in matchmaking really isn't any discernable measure of quality that exists out there, moreso than just proper timing and it happen to find the right people
 

Stopdoor

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,151
Aesthetics aren't completely irrelevant but you stop noticing it on a multiplayer map after like the first minute of play and only start noticing it again after you play the map a few dozen times. Well, I guess unless if you are some role-playing lore weirdo going into matchmaking - sorry, "War Games" - for "atmosphere." Aesthetics quickly takes a back seat to gameplay for most people.

There's also a point where a map is "pretty enough" that it really doesn't matter very much either way. Reach Forge, yeah, that gray became soul draining after 3 years, but Halo 5 forge maps these days are actually very nice looking since they've been updated fairly consistently.
This is really an agree-to-disagree thing because I wouldn't say the atmosphere is irrelevant after a minute of play.
 

jem

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,752
Aesthetics aren't completely irrelevant but you stop noticing it on a multiplayer map after like the first minute of play and only start noticing it again after you play the map a few dozen times. Well, I guess unless if you are some role-playing lore weirdo going into matchmaking - sorry, "War Games" - for "atmosphere." Aesthetics quickly takes a back seat to gameplay for most people.

There's also a point where a map is "pretty enough" that it really doesn't matter very much either way. Reach Forge, yeah, that gray became soul draining after 3 years, but Halo 5 forge maps these days are actually very nice looking since they've been updated fairly consistently.
As long as the visuals aren't impacting the gameplay in any way (ie: blinding lights, too dark, too busy etc.) I literally do not care at all about map aesthetics at all.
 

Cranster

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,761
As long as the visuals aren't impacting the gameplay in any way (ie: blinding lights, too dark, too busy etc.) I literally do not care at all about map aesthetics at all.
Unfortunately most Halo 4 and 5 maps fall into those categories especially in regards to being too busy visually (343i art style makes it even worse at times).
 

jem

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,752
Unfortunately most Halo 4 and 5 maps fall into those categories especially in regards to being too busy visually (343i art style makes it even worse at times).
I don't find that all.

Other than Eden in the beta and that spinning one (can't remember the name) with the bright light I have 0 problems with them.

Too busy means that the visuals actively distract or impede your ability to see another player. Personally I've pretty much never had that problem.
 

Cranster

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,761
I don't find that all.

Other than Eden in the beta and that spinning one (can't remember the name) with the bright light I have 0 problems with them.

Too busy means that the visuals actively distract or impede your ability to see another player. Personally I've pretty much never had that problem.
You are probably in the vast minority. Alot of the maps in Halo 4 and Halo 5 have so much visual clutter that it can be distracting, let alone the way the lighting works on certain maps certain teams have a distinct advantage, Blue Team blends in with the lighting on "Eden" while Red Team blends in on The Rig.

343i needs to return to more simplistic visual map design like in the OG trilogy.
 

m23

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,085
There is some hint of truth to that, but mostly those early maps just had a huge attachment rate, they were identifiers for the whole game.

Halo CE, Blood Gulch
Halo 2, Lockout/Midship
Halo 3, Pit, Guardian, Valhalla

Like what is "the map" of Halo 4 or 5 that will forever hold your joy?

Halo 4 I off the top of my head, Exile?
Halo 5... big-ship?

In 10 years are you really gonna look back fondly on any map from 5?

I've argued 4 has great maps, but none of them break the stratosphere, like I can't wait to play the game so I can play this map because I LOVE it
I thought Haven was the standout map for Halo 4.
 

Prinz Eugn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
768
Yeah, I actually like the simpler geometry of the forge maps to play on. I think it's a combination of the visual business and the awkardly huge amount of stuff to collide with on the Arena dev maps.
 

Tawpgun

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,860
I just remember hating how SAMEY and lame all the UNSC stuff ended up looking in 343 Halo. It was always supposed to be hard and angular but ended up having this odd rounded nature to it.

And then covenant design went from rounded and flowing to looking like insects as much as possible.
 

Moose

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,965
I wonder if the PC multi flight got held up because of Modern Warfare or if they had technical issues as I thought they were going to do that one soon.
 

SillyMikey

Member
Mar 29, 2019
538
I wonder if the PC multi flight got held up because of Modern Warfare or if they had technical issues as I thought they were going to do that one soon.
Who knows, but they seem to say that there were blocking bugs preventing them from releasing it.

And MW has got me thinking, if the broken state of the game is because of them using a new engine, im wondering how buggy halo Infinite will be if its not only using a new engine, but launching on new hardware as well. Its gonna be buggy for sure.

All these companies want us to preorder, but also launch games in these unacceptable states. It aggravating.
 

FUNKNOWN iXi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,495
343i needs to return to more simplistic visual map design like in the OG trilogy.
Simplistic art style in the OG "TRILOGY"? How you feel about Halo 4 and 5 is parallel to how many felt and still feel about Halo's shift in art after Halo 1.

Halo 2 was not as vibrant and simplistic as Halo 1.


You nerds need to stop lumping the first 3 games together when negatively talking about Halo 4 and 5. ty.
 

Cranster

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,761
Simplistic art style in the OG "TRILOGY"? How you feel about Halo 4 and 5 is parallel to how many felt and still feel about Halo's shift in art after Halo 1.

Halo 2 was not as vibrant and simplistic as Halo 1.




You nerds need to stop lumping the first 3 games together when negatively talking about Halo 4 and 5. ty.
The Coagulation screenshot you posted is from Halo Custom Edition.




But while we are at it, let's compare...



 
Last edited: