Halo |OT| She's Gone, Sir

oreomunsta

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,370
I mean, to be fair, he was heavily involved in Halo 4 and it's Spartan Ops. I'm glad they killed him and got him out of the way, but with the recent concept art, it would've been awesome to see both Jul and Cortana working with a beaten and battered Didact.
Oh shoot, didn't know about his inclusion in Spartan Ops lol. Never really got into that part of H4

I still have a Mega Blocks minifigure of him somewhere. Best Elite boy
 

Mix

The Fallen
Nov 17, 2017
172
New Braunfels, Texas
Oh shoot, didn't know about his inclusion in Spartan Ops lol. Never really got into that part of H4

I still have a Mega Blocks minifigure of him somewhere. Best Elite boy
oh dude, please watch the Spartan Ops cutscenes. The first half of season one isn't great, and the second half is only marginally better, but it's at least worth a watch to see why Halsey is missing her arm and why she was with Jul to begin with in Halo 5.
 

fuchsdh

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,847
Is it any good? I really liked Kurt, but he's not really the focus after GoO.
I think it's fine, but Glasslands merely wraps up the events of Ghosts of Onyx, it doesn't really continue following those characters.

343's tactical error from jump with Traviss' trilogy was originally positioning it as a "post-Ghosts of Onyx" series. Was only setting expectations up for disappointment.

And yeah, I find all the Halo novels at least passable, although there are certain ones I wouldn't bother rereading. Maybe because I cut my teeth on the Star Trek EU, but the quality threshold is way higher for Halo. Be thankful :P

oh dude, please watch the Spartan Ops cutscenes. The first half of season one isn't great, and the second half is only marginally better, but it's at least worth a watch to see why Halsey is missing her arm and why she was with Jul to begin with in Halo 5.
You can at least watch the cutscenes and get 90% of the gist. I'm sure there are some of those "gameplay + cutscenes" longplay-type movies as well, but I've never found those too interesting and the SpOps missions are generally about set pieces rather than in-mission story anyhow, with a few exceptions.
 

Trup1aya

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,559
I mean, to be fair, he was heavily involved in Halo 4 and it's Spartan Ops. I'm glad they killed him and got him out of the way, but with the recent concept art, it would've been awesome to see both Jul and Cortana working with a beaten and battered Didact.
I don't think this is really fair at all. Because he was in the side notes of Halo 4 proper... and almost no one played Spartan ops.

He was a great character in the novels, and was severely underutilized in 343s attempt to more transparently tie the games to the novels. In fact, I cant imagine a scenario where a Jul centered trilogy wouldn't have been more interesting than the forerunner saga has been.
 

oreomunsta

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,370
oh dude, please watch the Spartan Ops cutscenes. The first half of season one isn't great, and the second half is only marginally better, but it's at least worth a watch to see why Halsey is missing her arm and why she was with Jul to begin with in Halo 5.
Good to know! I dropped reading lore so much after feeling let down by H4, so by the time H5 came out, I figured Halsey's injury was from a book lol
 

Mix

The Fallen
Nov 17, 2017
172
New Braunfels, Texas
I don't think this is really fair at all. Because he was in the side notes of Halo 4 proper... and almost no one played Spartan ops.

He was a great character in the novels, and was severely underutilized in 343s attempt to more transparently tie the games to the novels. In fact, I cant imagine a scenario where a Jul centered trilogy wouldn't have been more interesting than the forerunner saga has been.
I'm not sure what you're arguing here...

I was pretty clear that he was in Spartan Ops. Are you saying that it's not fair that he was killed off in Halo 5? I understand that not everyone played SpOps, but to say that almost no one did is a bit of hyperbole don't you think?

There's obviously still a chance for him to be alive if we see the covenant infused with forerunner tech in Infinite, I for one hope we see it.

Good to know! I dropped reading lore so much after feeling let down by H4, so by the time H5 came out, I figured Halsey's injury was from a book lol
ha, that's totally fair man, I think they're pretty easy to find online, and everyone should watch them if they haven't in a while anyway, just to see how far we've come since then:

EDIT:
On the topic of Spartan Ops, I think this is what the future of Halo will probably look like, and maybe even what Halo Infinite could evolve into. Episodic, or maybe even continual stories, not unlike Destiny's expansions. A campaign that doesn't end, even after the Chief's story. Spartan Ops was both ahead of it's time, and poorly implemented. I'd love to see something like this again in the future if 343 can commit the resources to it.

Hell, if you watch the cutscenes, the story isn't even called Spartan Ops, it's called Halo: Infinity.
 
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Trup1aya

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,559
I'm not sure what you're arguing here...

I was pretty clear that he was in Spartan Ops. Are you saying that it's not fair that he was killed off in Halo 5? I understand that not everyone played SpOps, but to say that almost no one did is a bit of hyperbole don't you think?

There's obviously still a chance for him to be alive if we see the covenant infused with forerunner tech in Infinite, I for one hope we see it.


ha, that's totally fair man, I think they're pretty easy to find online, and everyone should watch them if they haven't in a while anyway, just to see how far we've come since then:

EDIT:
On the topic of Spartan Ops, I think this is what the future of Halo will probably look like, and maybe even what Halo Infinite could evolve into. Episodic, or maybe even continual stories, not unlike Destiny's expansions. A campaign that doesn't end, even after the Chief's story. Spartan Ops was both ahead of it's time, and poorly implemented. I'd love to see something like this again in the future if 343 can commit the resources to it.

Hell, if you watch the cutscenes, the story isn't even called Spartan Ops, it's called Halo: Infinity.
Im saying his "heavy involvement" in spartan ops is trivial because it was an unpopular multiplayer mode, in what was generally an unpopular multiplayer game. So few players had any engagement with the character.

Not only that but Spartan Ops really wasn't a great example of characterization. Jul's character was basically made a generic antagonist. The same treatment Didact got in the main game.

Him being alive after being assassinated in H5 would be pretty lame.
 
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Mix

The Fallen
Nov 17, 2017
172
New Braunfels, Texas
Im saying his "heavy involvement" in spartan ops is trivial because it was an unpopular multiplayer mode, in what was generally an unpopular multiplayer game. So few players had any engagement with the character.

Not only that but Spartan Ops really wasn't a great example of characterization. Jul's character was basically made a generic antagonist. The same treatment Didact got in the main game.

Him being alive after being assassinated in H5 would be pretty lame.
Not sure why you’d put heavy involvement in quotes, feels like your implying that I’m wrong about that, when he appears in just about every cutscene in SpOps. He is heavily involved in SpOps, even if you didn’t like it.

To be fair, Jul was definitely a throw away character. He was written into the novels in the same way that any minor character is that appears in game: to give them a backstory so that it’s not jarring when they appear in game. Jul wasn’t necessary, that elite could’ve been anyone, the splinter faction of the covenant was who they were to give us a reason to shoot at more than just the prometheans.

I want to be clear that the only reason I think it would be interesting for Jul to appear in Infinite is the same reason he appeared in Halo 4. To give us cool new enemies to shoot at. I don’t care if it’s Jul, it could be anyone, but covenant with promethean tech grafted on to them would be neat, and is likely not going to happen as it was a concept that was dreamt up for Halo 5 and didn’t make it into the game.

I’m not trying to argue with you or fight you on anything, other than the fact that Jul is a center point of SpOps lol
 

Trup1aya

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,559
Not sure why you’d put heavy involvement in quotes, feels like your implying that I’m wrong about that, when he appears in just about every cutscene in SpOps. He is heavily involved in SpOps, even if you didn’t like it.

To be fair, Jul was definitely a throw away character. He was written into the novels in the same way that any minor character is that appears in game: to give them a backstory so that it’s not jarring when they appear in game. Jul wasn’t necessary, that elite could’ve been anyone, the splinter faction of the covenant was who they were to give us a reason to shoot at more than just the prometheans.

I want to be clear that the only reason I think it would be interesting for Jul to appear in Infinite is the same reason he appeared in Halo 4. To give us cool new enemies to shoot at. I don’t care if it’s Jul, it could be anyone, but covenant with promethean tech grafted on to them would be neat, and is likely not going to happen as it was a concept that was dreamt up for Halo 5 and didn’t make it into the game.

I’m not trying to argue with you or fight you on anything, other than the fact that Jul is a center point of SpOps lol
I put "heavy involvement" in quotes, because, as you mentioned, he was a throw away character.

He was a central character in the novels (and was expertly characterized), and a principle antagonist in Spartan Ops, so I'm not sure why you're referring to him as a minor character, other than the fact that in the games he recieved the level of care you'd expect for a minor character, but that's because of poor writing. If he was going to be a in-game throwaway He didn't need a novel introduction to avoid being jarring - if anything the loss of characterization between the novels and games is what's jarring.


Reviving Jul as an excuse to have hybrid/covie tech would be lame. As you said, it could be any one else instead.

I don't dispute that Jul was "heavily involved" in Spartan Ops, I just disagree that his involvement in Spartan Ops somehow makes up for his being unceremoniously assassinated in the beginning of H5. His treatment in the games was a complete and utter waste of a good character.

A guy who like him in the books but didn't like what happened in H5 isnt going to find any solace by watching Spartan Ops cutscenes.
 
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jelly

Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,500
I wonder if they'll drop the name Warzone considering COD is going full in with it now. They probably have a newer game mode anyway but hey call it Big Team Battle 😄
 

Tawpgun

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,647
I just want to go on record for saying the covenant being back to being some splinter offshoot with seemingly just as much combat ability and resources was dumb.

From a lore standpoint I hate fighting elites again.

But they are the most fun combatant in Halo so. With Jul dead and a lot of their forces wiped out in Halo 5.... are we really gonna be dealing with an armada of covenant again?
 

Trup1aya

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,559
I just want to go on record for saying the covenant being back to being some splinter offshoot with seemingly just as much combat ability and resources was dumb.

From a lore standpoint I hate fighting elites again.

But they are the most fun combatant in Halo so. With Jul dead and a lot of their forces wiped out in Halo 5.... are we really gonna be dealing with an armada of covenant again?
When I was a young buck playing Halo 4 for the first time, I was pretty annoyed to see the same old Covey enemies in three very first level. I said to myself "I thought we were all cool now because of the arbitor" Especially since I had no exposure to the novels. But now it makes perfect sense and I wouldn't have it any other way.

Of course the collapse of the covenant would be messy. Of course generals would capitalize on lingering loyalties and try to consolidate power and resources. Ofcourse religious zealots would double down on their faith after it's been debunked. We see the very same things happen today. Of course post-war treaties would be tenuous as people wouldnt be quick to bury the hatchet. So from a lore perspective, I'm glad were still fighting remnants of that era.

Actually I should have greatly preferred if we had a trilogy that focused on the post-covenant messiness that would have engulfed the galaxy rather than this Forerunner saga. Kilo 5 and Hunt the Truth really whet my appetite for that approach.
 

Tawpgun

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,647
Actually I should have greatly preferred if we had a trilogy that focused on the post-covenant messiness that would have engulfed the galaxy rather than this Forerunner saga. Kilo 5 and Hunt the Truth really whet my appetite for that approach.
I somewhat agree. Prometheans could have come into it but not as a main faction.

Spartan Ops had a somewhat interesting thing going with the Janus key hunting down forerunner artifacts. We could have seen a splinter group of covenant trying to get access to forerunner technology to get an advantage over humanity. Humanity would want it because they were the rightful heirs. Could have even had some splinter groups of humanity (insurrection) trying to gather forerunner tech to fight against the UNSC. Dunno if Halo would ever want to venture into us killing humans though.

Actually that might have been an interesting way to bring promethean likes enemies in. Insurrectionists find the composer. Their soliders are composed and molded into forerunner fighting machines. The universe is splintered and everyone is fighting for control.
 

Rodeo Clown

Member
Dec 14, 2017
921
Which halo had the best AI to combat?

I remember stinkles writing a bunch of cool stuff about halo 2 in the xbox magazine in regard to halo 2 and how they would flank.
I think the most fun is either CE or 3. 2 is too confined and I think the Prometheans just aren't much fun in either 4 or 5.

CE/3 have that sweet spot where the battlefields are open and the enemies engage in interesting tactics that make the campaigns more replayable.
 

Trup1aya

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,559
I somewhat agree. Prometheans could have come into it but not as a main faction.

Spartan Ops had a somewhat interesting thing going with the Janus key hunting down forerunner artifacts. We could have seen a splinter group of covenant trying to get access to forerunner technology to get an advantage over humanity. Humanity would want it because they were the rightful heirs. Could have even had some splinter groups of humanity (insurrection) trying to gather forerunner tech to fight against the UNSC. Dunno if Halo would ever want to venture into us killing humans though.

Actually that might have been an interesting way to bring promethean likes enemies in. Insurrectionists find the composer. Their soliders are composed and molded into forerunner fighting machines. The universe is splintered and everyone is fighting for control.
I agree with all of this. Even if Prometheans ended up being a minor faction. There was so many interesting scenarios to tap into.

You had many disillusioned elites bucking the Covenant, but not supporting the Arbitor's open embrace of Humanity. You had Outer Colonies bitter at the lack of support they got during the War efforts in additions to Insurrections who have been a thorn in the UNSCs side all along. You had many UNSC and even Spartan defectors and humans upset about getting cozies with Elites. You had Jackals, many of whom were never all that into the Covenant Religion, trying to upgrade from being pirates to being a true Power. You had a colony made up of ex-covenant and humans, united by there distaste for the power structures that lead to their personal losses. You had ONI pretending to be a Sanghelli ally, while also plotting to genocide Sanghelios and you had Jul, aware of the ONI plot and fully aware that the Covenant was always full of shit, but charismatic and snakey enough to lead a team of terrorist Zealots on a religious quest to save the Sanghelio from humanity.

There was so much juicy lore to pull from that I cant help but be disappointed at the path we've taken.

I'm truly hopeful that Infinty just thrusts us back into that messy state and minimizes its reliance on everything released beteeen H4 and now.
 

Tawpgun

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,647
I agree with all of this. Even if Prometheans ended up being a minor faction. There was so many interesting scenarios to tap into.

You had many disillusioned elites bucking the Covenant, but not supporting the Arbitor's open embrace of Humanity. You had Outer Colonies bitter at the lack of support they got during the War efforts in additions to Insurrections who have been a thorn in the UNSCs side all along. You had many UNSC and even Spartan defectors and humans upset about getting cozies with Elites. You had Jackals, many of whom were never all that into the Covenant Religion, trying to upgrade from being pirates to being a true Power. You had a colony made up of ex-covenant and humans, united by there distaste for the power structures that lead to their personal losses. You had ONI pretending to be a Sanghelli ally, while also plotting to genocide Sanghelios and you had Jul, aware of the ONI plot and fully aware that the Covenant was always full of shit, but charismatic and snakey enough to lead a team of terrorist Zealots on a religious quest to save the Sanghelio from humanity.

There was so much juicy lore to pull from that I cant help but be disappointed at the path we've taken.

I'm truly hopeful that Infinty just thrusts us back into that messy state and minimizes its reliance on everything released beteeen H4 and now.
aliens bad
people good
shooty mcblowup
 

Haruko

Member
Oct 25, 2017
602
Ugh, I signed up for the flights on day one (and have re-checked/updated my dxdiag a few times since), but have yet to get any invites so far.

Hope CE for PC is close.
 

Ozzy Onya A2Z

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,665
Once again thought I'll give ol' MCC a run while waiting for Apex buddies and boy was I disappointed again. Search OBJ only, match US west again (expected) but at least found a game within minutes only to match a full regular squad on yet again a H3 Midship remake and get stomped (of course, mere randies matching full teams sucks and they were well versed in arena setups). So I tick slayer for a second match...Reach midship remake AGAIN against the same team of 4 somehow.

The really shite part is 3 Aussies matched in these two matches and got US west every time. Fuck that noise.

This is why I get pissed off with Halo and the lack of region selection and not granular enough filters excluding maps/modes choices by players. It's not what I want to play over and over. It's why 15+ of my hardcore Halo mates stopped play H5 altogether. We just don't want to play sweaty arena only games over and over. The weighting in MCC is a fucking joke across all these Halo games and mode/maps available, it's a shadow of its former self. It's a real lack of vision and poor sustain or a deliberate choice to target such weights due to poor populations.

PvE can't come soon enough.
 

bryansbane

Member
Nov 7, 2019
35
Huntington, West Virginia
Subscribed!
Just started listening to all your casts from the beginning. I really like your down to earth style of talking and also...down to earth viewpoints.
In addition, i find it very interesting that some of you have a lore-focused/story perspective, something that i was never much interested in, yet there must be a large amount of people that care a great deal. Great to hear different takes on Halo, all in a very balanced fashion.
Thank you so much for your kind words! That gives us more energy going into the next episode. Speaking of which!

 

Haruko

Member
Oct 25, 2017
602
Looks like I didn't need an email to get in; I launched the Xbox Insider Hub on my PC, re-joined the MCC Insider thing and installed the Halo MCC Insider app on the Win 10 store. Now i'm in, apparently
 

Sikamikanico

Member
Oct 25, 2017
981

One of my maps, Fever Pitch, designed with the help of Blaze on the Halo 5 sustain team is now in Matchmaking - if you play it, I'd love to hear what you think! (its the lava one)
 

HTupolev

Member
Oct 27, 2017
835
Beyond that, though, I think the issues of "hiding and waiting for shields to come back" speaks less to the bad sides of having regenerating health, and rather the fact that the games those features appear in have seriously broken difficulties.
It's right back to the issue of the health system being part of an intrinsic whole, though. Halo 2 ramped up the damage tables and difficulty of shot avoidance in large part because it was trying to maintain difficulty in light of rapid full regen. Halo 3 stuck bandaids on the more extreme symptoms, but the underlying problem still existed to some degree.

I wonder if it wouldn't be terrible to diverge the systems, using CE-like health in SP while allowing it to fully regenerate in MP.

Whatever they do, health bars should always be exposed to the user. The hidden HP in Halo's 2 and 3 is just silly, as was Reach's use of hidden vehicle health. That Reach vehicle health situation is perhaps the worst, because it resulted in a lot of casual players never learning that the health had partial regen, so random people would constantly be needlessly burning up your team's vehicles.
 

BizzyBum

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,670
New York

One of my maps, Fever Pitch, designed with the help of Blaze on the Halo 5 sustain team is now in Matchmaking - if you play it, I'd love to hear what you think! (its the lava one)
Figures I play for a few hours and don't come across your map. lol

The ones I played so far are pretty cool. The only one I dislike is Analogue. I also hate how the Hydra is still a weapon being placed on new maps. Can't stand it.

Seclusion - old one
Fullmetal - pretty good, nice and open. hydra = bad
Analogue - dislike, too cramped and convoluted
Transit - pretty good
Data Center - cool theme, also pretty good
Furnace - old one, bad
Hourglass - this one looks cool, but almost too big? Would prefer it without that 4 shot rocket spawn or just change it to standard rockets.
Tourist Trap - old one
 
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Glass

Member
Oct 26, 2017
404

One of my maps, Fever Pitch, designed with the help of Blaze on the Halo 5 sustain team is now in Matchmaking - if you play it, I'd love to hear what you think! (its the lava one)
That's awesome, will def try to play it this weekend. Think Infinite will be when I finally try to get into Forging. Being on PC will be fantastic for that side of things.
 

op_ivy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,745
I don't recall sign I ng up for (or even why I would) the PC flighting, but I got an email with a steam key for Halo CE anyway. Anyone need it?
 

wwm0nkey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,723
Yup, CE MP is still more fun than Reach and 2v2 is very fun in CE, BTB is pure chaos.

Aslo don't share your code, you'll end up black listing you and the person who gets it from future flights.