-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
Halo |OT| She's Gone, Sir
- Thread starter Poodlestrike
- Start date
- Status
That's correct. I mentioned that in the other thread and didn't update my post here.
You continue to have selective memmory and your definition of getting shit on is probably also very weird. Every time that I read constructive feedback, there is at least one person completely rejecting opinions with saying that people are overdramatic and are just whining for the sake of hating 343i or any other ridiculous reasons. I have been reading Trup1aya's post in the MS thread for example and the amount of ignorance/rejection is just astonishing. Doesn't help that people who give their constructive feedback about the things that they dislike have to constantly repeat their reasoning, while others who are fine with everything, are just being super defensive about it and provide next to no counter arguments.
I've been reading forums like GAF occasionally since the very late Halo 3 days and I started following it a little more during the Halo Reach and Halo 4 transition and the amount of "shit" that these games have gotten wasn't really any more or less, than Halo 5. I would say that MCC has gotten the most "shit" for being incredibly broken and we all know that it was justified. Edit: Let me make clear that people sending hate messages and death threats to developers over this is never justified and that's not even debatable.
This is not only directed towards you, but people are really getting overly defensive over things that they like and they are willing to bend the past for it. I have been guilty of doing the same thing in the past.
It really is.
Is there something I'm missing? What did nokyard do to warrant that?
Oh. Well this is awkward now. Did it not used to quote people regardless of their ignored status?
Not on ResetERA, I think? The only reason I quoted him was, because I had to read his post while being logged out.
I dunno, as much as this is true, killing BTB like they did to me is unforgivable.
What am I ignoring?
Edit: ohhhhhhhhhh. Well that's quite funny.
Yeah, you're probably right to be honest.
Halo 5 is really well made, and quite fun - but it still doesn't scratch the itch I want from Halo.
It tries to be too many things, and loses some of its identity in the process - but it does it all with some solid game development, style, and stability that you really don't see in games very often.
Also, I just feel like some of the MP lost its zany Halo 'fun factor' by catering to what I imagine was pro-centric map design. I think there is room for a careful blend of smart maps for pro gaming while still retaining some of that Halo outlandishness and flash.
It tries to be too many things, and loses some of its identity in the process - but it does it all with some solid game development, style, and stability that you really don't see in games very often.
Also, I just feel like some of the MP lost its zany Halo 'fun factor' by catering to what I imagine was pro-centric map design. I think there is room for a careful blend of smart maps for pro gaming while still retaining some of that Halo outlandishness and flash.
its certainly a shame there are no h5 4v4 maps with a warthog or ghost, competitive balance be damned.
It's the current game. You see more jank complaints because more people are experiencing jank because more people are playing the game.
has there ever been a game mode where its like dodgeball with respawns?
example:
1-2-3-4 vs A-B-C-D
Say 1 Kills A
A stays dead
But then B kills 4
A respawns
and it continues til one of the team is out of players?
example:
1-2-3-4 vs A-B-C-D
Say 1 Kills A
A stays dead
But then B kills 4
A respawns
and it continues til one of the team is out of players?
Do vehicles really serve much of a purpose on 4v4 maps? If it's to get to somewhere faster then at that point is the map to big to be considered 4v4?
You can consider them another variant of power weapons. The ghost on Standoff was useful for leading assaults and suppressing enemies, for instance.
I would give Standoff the pass as it's more of a BTB map. I'll use Ghost Town and Snowbound for example. I don't remember the last time I've seen people use the vehicles on those maps, and specifically on Ghost Town the maps seems a bit cluttered to get around. High Ground would probably be the objective but I only ever see the ghost being used for offensive purposes but not all the time, but I also don't think High Ground is the best example of a 4v4 map.
Hell yes.
Coagulation = come on tanks, hogs etc. Pure Halo joy right there.
Valhalla = banshees, tanks, wraiths, ghosts, mantis (other map variants) etc. Again pure Halo joy in slayer or OBJ.
Zanzibar = holy shit, OBJ flag and bomb runs with the hog. Dude how can you not live that 4v4 light vehicle shit. How about the Gauss Hog?
High ground = ghost suppression and clean up for flag/bomb runs.
High ground = mongoose antics that lead to insane captures/arms...that or you gave away a sweet double kill.
Standoff = players entire gamertags were devoted to hog driving medals or hog kills, there were leaderboards and everything. Brilliant play between equipment, brute shot, stickies, rocks, hogs, objective, laser etc.
Ascension = banshee vs rocks/sniper/stickies. Worked for slayer and OBJ.
Burial mounds = ghost offense/defence was important in slayer/OBJ.
Relic = the hog and ghost were so damned important. That rush at the beginning for the flag leap off the tower or to get your bomb guy close/arm/distract etc.
Avalanche = full gamut of vehicle even the hornet bloody awesome in flag/bomb OBJ.
Fuck dude, not to call you out but how can you say do vehicles service much purpose in Halo 4v4? Bungie/343 really dropped the fucking ball with this sweet spot of Halo 4v4 OBJ post H2/3. I fucking hope Infinite brings this back in spades. It's what I live for with Halo. Going on foot with the bomb, coordinating with your party or using them distractions for solo OBJ runs etc. Christ I miss this Halo.
oh yeah, I remember that now, thats probably about as close as scripting would allow in this game anyways
Did people like it?
I was just working on the house day dreaming and it crossed my mind for some weird reason.
There isn't an abundance of pro-centric maps- just an abundance of bad maps, and a complete absence of dev made mid to large maps with vehicles.
The concept of a pro-centric map doesn't even make sense. The map is either well balanced or it isn't. If the Dev succeeds atbmake map fair and fun, they'll have a staple of competitive maps by default. making a balanced map doesn't come at the expense of halo "flash or outlandishness". Dating back to CE some of the most popular competitive maps are the most definitively "halo" in terms of design.
Why do people keep scapegoating the Pro scene for poor design choices? Is pro focus why we got stuck with garbage like molten, riptide, and Overgrowth? Maps like statis that heavily favor One team over the other?
Last edited:
Yes. I believe it got dumped into the Elimination rotational.
Most of those maps aren't designed with 4v4 in mind, even with vehicles. With and without vehicles they play too slow. In this case I'm referring to Ascension, High Ground, etc. and not Coagulation or Avalanche. Those maps shouldn't even be in a 4v4 playlist.
Like I hate getting Relic in H2A because it's 4v4 on a map that would play better with bigger teams. The same goes for a lot of the other maps you listed.
I think relic 1 flag works fine in 4v4. But yeah it's a BTB map. But there are plenty of unmentioned 4v4 maps between H2 and H3 that have vehicles like turf, snow bound, isolation.
At least two thirds are built for 4v4 there mate. I was literally one of the players with most games played in OBJ H2 ad H3. Like 20,000 of them.
Some play better with BTB or were designed to cater for both. There are others in 4v4 vehicles too e.g. tempest and more. I was just making an overwhelming point.
Truly BTB maps are headlong, sandtrap, sidewinder, containment, some H4 maps etc. Avalanche does play better in BTB though.
Has there been any confirmation about Infinite getting or not getting a physical release on PC?
Nope. Xbox has been partnering up with THQ on quite a few of those (including Halo Wars 2), so chances might be good.
It is pretty awesome that Roy is streaming Halo 3 4v4s with Snipedown, Lethul, APG, etc. in 2018. I'm having a blast watching it.
It is fun. The game plays so damn fast when their are no animations to pull you out of the action.
I'd be cool with that so long as the netcode can handle it. im curious to see how they'll balance the weapons for kbm if all precision weapons are hitscan.
oh snap i keep forgetting that halo infinite will also be on PC!!!! (still buying on the xbox)
i wonder if they will mimic what gears5 did with pc vs console multiplayer.
i wonder if they will mimic what gears5 did with pc vs console multiplayer.
I see the argument for projectile weapons in terms of skill.
However, I'm against because it's just less fun. It might be more skillful but I don't find it satisfying to master, only frustrating to deal with.
yeah i dont think i'd want it either, but seeing how people love halo 3 i thought id throw in a wrench :P ... because h3 was mainly projectile right?
It's kinda surreal. It is pretty great and very nostalgic of the better times.
yeah h3 was all projectile. i think was a dumb move for their p2p solution then they threw random spread on top of that which was overkill.
when it comes to fun vs frustration I can understand why someone wouldn't want projectile- missing because you forgot to or are having trouble leading your shots might feel bad. or you'd rather not have to think about it.
But the solutions for balancing hitscan often feel really bad too. being on target, but missing because of RNG doesnt feel good, but without it, everyone having lazers can hurt map movement. it also doesn't feel great having wildly different reticle assist profiles across the sandbox.
there probably isn't a perfect solution. but i think of netcode is good enough and the min projectile speed high enough, projectile would work really well.
i don't think skill argument is the strongest one. it's more about simplifying the approach to weapon balancing.
Last edited:
OP
OP
This is my primary argument in favor, honestly. Projectile speed on everything opens up a lot of room for diverse weapon balancing, especially if we're going to be sticking with multiple utility weapons.
Projectiles allow weapons to be made harder to use at range, through a simple deterministic behavior and without compromising (or losing consistency in) aim feel.
Halo 3's jank was a result of a lot of things compounding. Such slow projectiles need good impact indication, but the spread and weak indicators combined to make the weapon behavior feel opaque, especially when the host's bandwidth started to crack. It's possible for projectiles to work far far better.
Halo 3's jank was a result of a lot of things compounding. Such slow projectiles need good impact indication, but the spread and weak indicators combined to make the weapon behavior feel opaque, especially when the host's bandwidth started to crack. It's possible for projectiles to work far far better.
I feel like the current BR's recoil is a better long distance balancing solution than projectile weapons.
It's consistent and doesn't cause any frustration because it effectively communicates why you miss/hit. It also doesn't fall prey to any networking issues and.
I also find it quite satisfying to use.
That said, I think adding bullet hitmarkers would significantly reduce the frustration with projectile weapons.
Also I'm pretty sure that Halo 3's projectiles don't actually take into account your horizontal motion. As in, if you're strafing in line with someone you still need to lead them which I find very annoying.
Last edited:
i feel like trying to counteract recoil on an analog stick is much more cumbersome than making an adjustment for bullet speed. with good tracers and feedback , you quickly figure out the offset. then it's just a matter of maintaining it
i never touch the BR anymore. it's too easy to beat with the straight shooting magnum.
ive never felt frustrated with projectile in any game other than h3- which also had a weird aiming system, poor netcode, and poor hit feedback. i think many falsely blamed projectile for their frustration.
could also be a netcode thing...
The BR's recoil doesn't need to be countered. It automatically resets after a burst.
The recoil just results in a consistent vertical spread of the burst which effectively reduces its power at range.
I still find the BR to be quite effective at short to mid range against a magnum. Particularly when trying to hot the final headshot.
The frustration in H3 is definitely due, in part, to what you listed and absolutely could be improved through hitmarkers and tracers etc. That said, personally I find projectiles inherently lead to some frustration, even with better feedback.
Also, for projectiles to have an appreciable effect on Halo's weapon balancing the bullets have to be relatively slow due to the small map size. I find having to lead by a fair amount even over a short distance can make the weapons feel worse. I think it might be part of why 3's projectiles are more frustrating than in other titles though - there's a disconnect between the players expectations of how the weapon should work and how it functions in the game. That said I don't actually think this is a good argument against them, it's just another minor reason why I dislike them in the context of Halo
Last edited:
I'm saying, if you want to use your BR effectively at range, you have to fight the recoil if you want all your shots to land. which gets pretty cumbersome, especially when people are crouch strafing. with the pistol, there's much less to think about.
i think even without vertical recoil, the BR would have a final headshot perk. thats the nature of burstfire, you get 3 chances to land a bullet. you can just swipe.
as far as projectile speeds the CE magnum was projectile. it was fast enough you could crossmap someone on hangem high if you knew how to lead, but wouldn't really need to lead at all up close. i think that experience should be the baseline. BR would have faster bullet speed. then DMR. then sniper.
i get having a personal preference for hitscan, but i don't think it works well with the complicated approach to balancing.
Last edited:
You know what though, even with h5 having dedicated servers there were plenty of shit times I encountered rubber banding and lag. :( Plz mister chief, save us
Ehhhhh, I wouldn't describe Halo 3 like that. Takes what feels like an eternity to switch some weapons and being able to shoot. The equip time for the Sword for example feels insanely long, especially after the snappy animations of Halo 2.
Halo 5 feels a lot faster and fluid in this regard. I think Halo 3 is sluggish and more methodical in its design compared to later games. Halo 1 you felt like a juggernaut but had some lengthy animations, whereas you had quicker animations but felt overall weaker in Halo 2. Halo 3 was arguably the worst of all words between the first three games lol. This doesn't take into account button combos and animation cancels either, which especially make the first two games faster.
- Status