Halo |OT| She's Gone, Sir

[jem]

Linking sprint to shield regen and delaying sprint to check for damage are both counter-intuitive. They are not what one would naturally expect when playing a game.

Understanding the concept of acceleration doesn't change that. I assumed the bolded is what you meant by "sprint acceleration". If you are simply referring to the concept of velocity ramping up over time - you're right that's not unintuitive. Most games won't have player speed shift from 0 to max in an instant. You don't even need strong A/V to sell that.

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Slowing down when being shot is a common feature of FPS titles. This is just a slightly different implementation of that idea. It's not counter-intuitive at all.

Begin to sprint - get shot - stop sprinting.

It's not a difficult concept to grasp. It's all communicated quite explicitly through the various audiovisual cues and hud elements as well.

The sprint/shield mechanic is the only slightly bizarre aspect. But again, it's not required to be fully understood to move and shoot in H5. A new player can easily hop in and have fun without understanding that mechanic. At worst they might wonder why it sometimes takes longer for their shield to recharge, however, that's not a hindrance to their ability to move and shoot.

 

[Akai]

Is it too late to sign up for The MCC Reach testing on Xbox?

(also what was that image of a Grunt constellation on booting up the MCC and where can I DL it?)

Click to shrink...

We don't really know. Just sign up anyways, even if you might not get into the 1st session.

The Grunt constellation is the Yappening (wallpapers are linked there as well). It's the current theme for the MCC since and it references YapYap the Destroyer, which is a Halo Wars 2 leader.

 

[TheDanger]

countless patches and updates and still it takes an eternity to load the menu options in the MCC, maybe only I have this issue? it's always been like this for me:

-title screen
-press button
-wheel spinning and spinning and spinning, takes longer than a minute sometimes until I get the campaign/multiplayer etc options


opening the xbox guide makes it go much faster for some reason it's so weird

 

[wwm0nkey]

countless patches and updates and still it takes an eternity to load the menu options in the MCC, maybe only I have this issue? it's always been like this for me:

-title screen
-press button
-wheel spinning and spinning and spinning, takes longer than a minute sometimes until I get the campaign/multiplayer etc options


opening the xbox guide makes it go much faster for some reason it's so weird

Click to shrink...

Maybe power cycle you XBO, helps me sometimes. unplug your power and flush out any remaining power by holding the Power button for like 10 seconds
*This also clears the systems cache

 

[DemonCarnotaur]

We don't really know. Just sign up anyways, even if you might not get into the 1st session.

The Grunt constellation is the Yappening (wallpapers are linked there as well). It's the current theme for the MCC since and it references YapYap the Destroyer, which is a Halo Wars 2 leader.

Click to shrink...

Thanks!
I finally signed up, when I tried before the website was down, and then I just kinda forgot I didn't do it.

 

[NOKYARD]

That will work but the official instructions are:

Disconnect and reconnect your console's power cable

1. Turn off the Xbox One console by pressing the Xbox button on the front of the console for about 10 seconds until it shuts down completely.
2. Unplug the console's power cable. Wait 10 seconds.
   Important Be sure to wait 10 seconds. This step resets the power supply.
3. Plug the console power cable back in.
4. Press the Xbox button on your console to turn on the Xbox One.

Click to shrink...

 

[The Henery]

Halo 3 came out at exactly the right time in terms of Halo-zeitgeist, had well-timed DLC and expansions, and didn't face serious competition until well after release with MW2. If MCC has taught us anything, it shouldn't be that Halo 3 was popular because of the base gameplay.

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No, that's exactly what it has taught us. Halo 3 has stood amongst its prequels and sequels in an equal opportunity environment for the Halo fan's preference since MCC's launch and consistently been the most played title, so much so that prior to the match composer, Halo 3 had to have its own BTB playlist to let other Halo title fans have a chance of a game in that list, despite Halo 4 being a BTB focused game and Halo 2 having some of the best BTB maps in the series. Halo 3 had more single title playlists than the other games, indicating its dominance. Its base gameplay retains a substantial playerbase into the year 2019 and is the series' title of choice for its esports league despite being over 11 years old.

That a portion of the tiny sample size that is the resetera Halo board comes on here after playing a few games of Halo 3 AR start slayer and proclaims "how did we ever play this trash!" does not mean that Halo 3's gameplay wasn't, and isn't, popular or, more pertinently, preferred. Its precision gunplay is less scrutable than the strong aim assist, point and click hitscan fare of Halo 2 Classic/Anniversary and Halo 4. It takes a little longer than the other games to become congruent with its internal logic. But once attuned to its contours, I find the game so much more rewarding and engaging than the other titles in the series and the population stats agree with me.

Also, its DLC releases were relatively expensive and saw the mythic map pack tied to the purchase of two different full priced retail releases. Halo 3 weathered the Modern Warfare revolution and still retained a high playerbase. Those are vindications of Halo 3's gameplay pull. The popular view on this board that Halo 3 is an epoch definer with little else to recommend its gameplay in the modern age is betrayed by its continuing popularity within the MCC. The disdain for the game by many here is the outlier view.

 

[Veelk]

It's kinda wierd to see this Halo 3 debate play out, tbh. I came into the Halo fandom about a year after 3 was released. Back at the old place, the community regarded 3 as good, but inferior to 2, with it being more of a refinement of 2 rather than it's own beast. But when Reach came out as it's own beast, most people hated it. Then 4 came out and I remember several threads talking about how Halo 4 died faster than any other Halo game. And since I don't have an Xbox 1, I never followed up on Halo 5 after reading up on it having a bad campaign.

So, from my experience, Halo 3 was talked about in slightly dismissive terms when I was part of the community, but in retrospect of Reach and 4, it was clearly ahead of it's successors in terms of reception. And honestly, while it's probably dated at this point, I expect to go back to Halo 3 enjoying it. But I'm a campaign player mostly, so its a bit different for me personally.

 

[FUNKNOWN iXi]

No, that's exactly what it has taught us. Halo 3 has stood amongst its prequels and sequels in an equal opportunity environment for the Halo fan's preference since MCC's launch and consistently been the most played title, so much so that prior to the match composer, Halo 3 had to have its own BTB playlist to let other Halo title fans have a chance of a game in that list, despite Halo 4 being a BTB focused game and Halo 2 having some of the best BTB maps in the series. Halo 3 had more single title playlists than the other games, indicating its dominance. Its base gameplay retains a substantial playerbase into the year 2019 and is the series' title of choice for its esports league despite being over 11 years old.

That a portion of the tiny sample size that is the resetera Halo board comes on here after playing a few games of Halo 3 AR start slayer and proclaims "how did we ever play this trash!" does not mean that Halo 3's gameplay wasn't, and isn't, popular or, more pertinently, preferred. Its precision gunplay is less scrutable than the strong aim assist, point and click hitscan fare of Halo 2 Classic/Anniversary and Halo 4. It takes a little longer than the other games to become congruent with its internal logic. But once attuned to its contours, I find the game so much more rewarding and engaging than the other titles in the series and the population stats agree with me.

Also, its DLC releases were relatively expensive and saw the mythic map pack tied to the purchase of two different full priced retail releases. Halo 3 weathered the Modern Warfare revolution and still retained a high playerbase. Those are vindications of Halo 3's gameplay pull. The popular view on this board that Halo 3 is an epoch definer with little else to recommend its gameplay in the modern age is betrayed by its continuing popularity within the MCC. The disdain for the game by many here is the outlier view.

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It shouldn't be a surprise that Halo 3 is the most popular in TMCC. I don't think its popularity in comparison to the other games in TMCC is indicative of people preferring its gameplay moving forward.

I'm of the opinion that Infinite multiplayer would be best if it takes something from each game. With Halo 3 in particular, it'd be great if Infinite uses projectile weapons instead of hitscan, but with the feel of movement, snappy animations, and responsive controls, I'd much prefer Halo 5 over any other game. One example, switching to the Sword or Gravity Hammer in Halo 3 felt too long, whereas switching weapons in Halo 2 and 5 was quicker.

I know you love Halo 3 and prefer it to the other games, but I don't think it's arguable that it feels like the most sluggish Halo game of all. And the last thing I want is a slow, sluggish Halo game again. I want Spartans to throw grenades far and to feel.... explosive. I want weapons to feel powerful. I don't want to feel weak and slow, which is what I feel like whenever I play Halo 3 today, and is how I felt when I played it for years after 2007.

 

[Prinz Eugn]

No, that's exactly what it has taught us. Halo 3 has stood amongst its prequels and sequels in an equal opportunity environment for the Halo fan's preference since MCC's launch and consistently been the most played title, so much so that prior to the match composer, Halo 3 had to have its own BTB playlist to let other Halo title fans have a chance of a game in that list, despite Halo 4 being a BTB focused game and Halo 2 having some of the best BTB maps in the series. Halo 3 had more single title playlists than the other games, indicating its dominance. Its base gameplay retains a substantial playerbase into the year 2019 and is the series' title of choice for its esports league despite being over 11 years old.

That a portion of the tiny sample size that is the resetera Halo board comes on here after playing a few games of Halo 3 AR start slayer and proclaims "how did we ever play this trash!" does not mean that Halo 3's gameplay wasn't, and isn't, popular or, more pertinently, preferred. Its precision gunplay is less scrutable than the strong aim assist, point and click hitscan fare of Halo 2 Classic/Anniversary and Halo 4. It takes a little longer than the other games to become congruent with its internal logic. But once attuned to its contours, I find the game so much more rewarding and engaging than the other titles in the series and the population stats agree with me.

Also, its DLC releases were relatively expensive and saw the mythic map pack tied to the purchase of two different full priced retail releases. Halo 3 weathered the Modern Warfare revolution and still retained a high playerbase. Those are vindications of Halo 3's gameplay pull. The popular view on this board that Halo 3 is an epoch definer with little else to recommend its gameplay in the modern age is betrayed by its continuing popularity within the MCC. The disdain for the game by many here is the outlier view.

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I'm not so sure, you can't really separate Halo 3 from the huge nostalgia hit it is for the majority of players. It was the most popular Halo game then, it's not a huge surprise it's the most popular game now.

Halo 3's precision gunplay isn't less scrutable, it's random. The internal logic is that your precision weapon is a slot machine that is also connection-dependent. Good thing you get only the vaguest of indicators that you are dealing any damage! These aren't new issues, either, MLG tried to deal with them at the time. H3 also has hidden get-out-of-jail free cards with equipment, a bloated sandbox, awkward and/or overpowered vehicles, and a snoozy base movement speed.

H3, however, is probably the most casual-friendly game for pretty much the same reasons, also explaining a fair amount of its popularity. If you are some random scrub, it's going to feel a lot better to run around getting mutual AR beatdowns than getting completely murdered by a working precision weapon in 1, 2, 2:A, or 4.

I loved Halo 3 at the time. It was a godsend after the janky and unfair online experience of Halo 2. But - holy balls, it feels terrible now. I continue to give it a chances when I play MCC, but nothing I have experienced has come close to changing my mind. For a standard-settings game, I would rather play any other Halo in MCC.

 

[Dokkaebi G0SU]

just wait till we get different levels of shields :P
lvl 1, 2, 3 and 4 is overshield lolololololololololol

 

[jem]

The MCC is the very definition of nostalgia fuel.

Way more people are nostalgic for Halo 3 than 2 or CE.

Ergo, Halo 3 is the most played,

 

[Trup1aya]

Halo 3 is most popular on MCC, because that what people enjoy the most. Halo 3 was the most popular XBL game for 3 years because a ton of people liked playing it. It's not just because of nostalgia. Just like it wasn't because of because of circumstance, or lack of competition back then. It's because Bungie got enough things right that they game could overcome its shortcomings and keep people entertained for a long time- even when other strong options were available.

This coming from someone who despises halo 3.

 

[Prinz Eugn]

Halo 3 is most popular on MCC, because that what people enjoy the most. Halo 3 was the most popular XBL game for 3 years because a ton of people liked playing it. It's not just because of nostalgia. Just like it wasn't because of because of circumstance, or lack of competition back then. It's because Bungie got enough things right that they game could overcome its shortcomings and keep people entertained for a long time- even when other strong options were available.

This coming from someone who despises halo 3.

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What competition? I don't remember any serious competitors other than MW2 and later Black Ops. It was a totally different scene on consoles back in the day, there wasn't any equivalent to Apex, or Fortnite, or Battlefield, or Overwatch, or Titanfall... It was pretty much Halo 3 or a COD if you wanted to play an FPS.

I wouldn't underestimate nostalgia, but there's also a component of basic familiarity. If you're a truly casual player you are going to jump into the most familiar experience, which for most people, is going to be Halo 3. All the other games are going to be comparatively confusing and harder to get into.

 

[FUNKNOWN iXi]

Halo 3 is most popular on MCC, because that what people enjoy the most. Halo 3 was the most popular XBL game for 3 years because a ton of people liked playing it. It's not just because of nostalgia. Just like it wasn't because of because of circumstance, or lack of competition back then.

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Halo 3's popularity in 2007 is not solely due circumstance lol, that much obvious. However, to not acknowledge the circumstance of where Halo was at that time is disingenuous. It was inevitable that Halo 3 was going to be that popular after millions of people became familiar with the brand between 2001-2007, are you trying to argue that circumstance is not relevant, even despite so many people today flipping their opinion on Halo 3?

It's because Bungie got enough things right that they game could overcome its shortcomings and keep people entertained for a long time- even when other strong options were available.

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The things they got right were in the content offered in the package for $60. Everyone already knows what that is, so no need to dive into things like Custom Games, Theater, Forge, File Sharing, etc.

 

[Trup1aya]

What competition? I don't remember any serious competitors other than MW2 and later Black Ops. It was a totally different scene on consoles back in the day, there wasn't any equivalent to Apex, or Fortnite, or Battlefield, or Overwatch, or Titanfall... It was pretty much Halo 3 or a COD if you wanted to play an FPS.

I wouldn't underestimate nostalgia, but there's also a component of basic familiarity. If you're a truly casual player you are going to jump into the most familiar experience, which for most people, is going to be Halo 3. All the other games are going to be comparatively confusing and harder to get into.

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Bro, halo 3 was the top game on Xbox live for 3 years straight. Not the most popular FPS, not the most popular shooter. The most popular game, period.

And there's were tons of excellent option to choose from- not just shooters, but there were excellent games coming out left and right, Vying for gamers limited time... but so many of those people always came back to halo.

For the sake of discrediting Halo3 and excusing current mediocrity, people don't start considering Halo's competition until Halo actually started losing to the competition. H3 had plenty of competition- H3 kept winning despite it.

In that same time frame, you had Gears of War, Rainbow 6, COD3, CODWaW, COD4, CODMW2, GTA4, Fallout3, Oblivion, Ghost Recon, Battlefront. All of these games are franchises that Halo once competed with from a dominant position, that it now struggles against from a position of mediocrity (with the exception of Ghost Recon)

These same franchise are competing in the same landscape Halo is - dealing with newcomers like Fortnite, overwatch, Apex, etc- yet they are still holding strong AND beating Halo.

Halo also used to trounce all the sports games Madden, 2K, Live, FIFA, etc.. now it can't hold a candle to them.

H3 had competition. Halo's competition has gotten stronger, while Halo got weaker.

Halo 3's popularity in 2007 is not solely due circumstance lol, that much obvious. However, to not acknowledge the circumstance of where Halo was at that time is disingenuous. It was inevitable that Halo 3 was going to be that popular after millions of people became familiar with the brand between 2001-2007, are you trying to argue that circumstance is not relevant, even despite so many people today flipping their opinion on Halo 3?

The things they got right were in the content offered in the package for $60. Everyone already knows what that is, so no need to dive into things like Custom Games, Theater, Forge, File Sharing, etc.

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Circumstance would explain launch hype and excitement. It would explain initial sales records.

Circumstance doesn't explain the game being the most popular on xbl for 3 years straight. If people weren't legitimately enjoying it, they would've found other things to play - and there were a ton of good games to play during that era.

What are the circumstances that would allow franchises that are as old or older than Halo, that were once less popular than Halo, to have grown since Halo started declining?

 

[Tawpgun]

After the aiming update Halo 3 became the GOAT.

To be honest I even find it more consistent than Halo 2 where your damn melee's were slot machines.

 

[FUNKNOWN iXi]

Circumstance would explain launch hype and excitement. It would explain initial sales records.

Circumstance doesn't explain the game being the most popular on xbl for 3 years straight. If people weren't legitimately enjoying it, they would've found other things to play - and there were a ton of good games to play during that era.

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Anecdotal sure, but in my case I loathed the gameplay despite playing that game for years lol, and I know many others who felt the same. That combined with how often people seem to look back poorly on Halo 3 upon revisiting it in TMCC is not an insignificant thing.

What are the circumstances that would allow franchises that are as old or older than Halo, that were once less popular than Halo, to have grown since Halo started declining?

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There are plenty of possible explanations as to why Halo declined in popularity over the years, most of which we've beaten to death.

 

[wwm0nkey]

After the aiming update Halo 3 became the GOAT.

To be honest I even find it more consistent than Halo 2 where your damn melee's were slot machines.

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The aiming update and 60hz has helped Halo 3 A LOT.

 

[Tawpgun]

The aiming update and 60hz has helped Halo 3 A LOT.

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I also think aiming in Halo 2 and 2A is way too easy.

Halo CE just feels like a complete crapshoot.

Fuck Halo 4.

 

[Trup1aya]

Anecdotal sure, but in my case I loathed the gameplay despite playing that game for years lol, and I know many others who felt the same. That combined with how often people seem to look back poorly on Halo 3 upon revisiting it in TMCC is not an insignificant thing.

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Do you think enough people would routinely play a game they hate to carry it to the top of Xbox live for 3 years? That's not normal behavior.

There are plenty of possible explanations as to why Halo declined in popularity over the years, most of which we've beaten to death.

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But none more plausible than people simply found other games more worthwhile. Halo isn't uniquely vulnerable to the very same forces that every other game is subject to. People just wanna make excuses for whatever reason - everything is responsible, except for the product offering.

 

[Cranster]

Halo 3 still has the worst shooting in the series though. Halo 2 also overall has better multiplayer maps.

 

[wwm0nkey]

Halo 3 still has the worst shooting i the series though.

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Halo 2 is still my favorite, but both the aiming and new tick rate has pushed H3 up for me, I can actually enjoy it now

 

[Deleted member 2226]

I'm not so sure, you can't really separate Halo 3 from the huge nostalgia hit it is for the majority of players. It was the most popular Halo game then, it's not a huge surprise it's the most popular game now.

Halo 3's precision gunplay isn't less scrutable, it's random. The internal logic is that your precision weapon is a slot machine that is also connection-dependent. Good thing you get only the vaguest of indicators that you are dealing any damage! These aren't new issues, either, MLG tried to deal with them at the time. H3 also has hidden get-out-of-jail free cards with equipment, a bloated sandbox, awkward and/or overpowered vehicles, and a snoozy base movement speed.

H3, however, is probably the most casual-friendly game for pretty much the same reasons, also explaining a fair amount of its popularity. If you are some random scrub, it's going to feel a lot better to run around getting mutual AR beatdowns than getting completely murdered by a working precision weapon in 1, 2, 2:A, or 4.

I loved Halo 3 at the time. It was a godsend after the janky and unfair online experience of Halo 2. But - holy balls, it feels terrible now. I continue to give it a chances when I play MCC, but nothing I have experienced has come close to changing my mind. For a standard-settings game, I would rather play any other Halo in MCC.

Click to shrink...

I think it's as simple as perfect timing. The birth of modern multiplayer, good post launch support, and a hugely influential number of social features before modern social sharing platforms existed. It really just had to be good (and while I have similar quibbles with Halo 3 in the series, I think the entire series is still preferable to your average shooters.)

 

[Reformed Individual]

I enjoy original Halo 3 shooting. I've been playing some of that online game based off Halo 3 recently and they have hitscan BR and it just feels way too op and dumb. You can literally 4 shot people across the map with no problem. Also 1v1s close/mid range are just 4 shots all the time for me, when enemies strafe I don't even need to try to aim or anticipate their movements because I'm pretty much guaranteed to 4 shot them all the time.

Also Jesus I hope they somehow balance sniping when Halo releases on PC. I dunno if it's just on the online version of Halo, but it is way too accurate with mouse+keyboard. Other FPS games on PC have the downside with Snipers that no scoping is next to impossible at long range and still not accurate at close range, but on Halo, you can literally no scope people with such ease on PC even if you're being shot at while taking the no scope, plus sniping is easier when scoped since on Controller, when you get taken out of the scope while you're getting shot, your aim will "jerk" a lot of the time making it harder to shoot them, but on M+KB, you just retain your aim at the exact place you were aiming while zoomed and can just kill people so easily.

 

[FUNKNOWN iXi]

Do you think enough people would routinely play a game they hate to carry it to the top of Xbox live for 3 years? That's not normal behavior.

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Of course not, but are there other important factors seriously worth considering on a serious level to a real degree for real as to why it was so popular other than people enjoying its gameplay? Yes.

But none more plausible than people simply found other games more worthwhile. Halo isn't uniquely vulnerable to the very same forces that every other game is subject to.

People just wanna make excuses for whatever reason - everything is responsible, except for the product offering.

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Who's making "excuses for whatever reason"? Who's saying the "product offering" has nothing to do with it? What are you talking about bo? Am I missing something where someone is blindly saying something unreasonable again? Is it jem? Must be jem.... jem!

 

[Trup1aya]

Of course not, but are there other important factors seriously worth considering on a serious level to a real degree for real as to why it was so popular other than people enjoying its gameplay? Yes.

Who's making "excuses for whatever reason"? Who's saying the "product offering" has nothing to do with it? What are you talking about bo? Am I missing something where someone is blindly saying something unreasonable again? Is it jem? Must be jem.... jem!

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Are there other factors sure, but when people want to cite "circumstance" as the reason for both Halo's biggest successes and current failure they are, in fact, undermining the many of important factors that lead to people choosing to play/stop playing a games... doubly so when the perpetuate the myth that there were no other strong options during Halo 3s tenure.

I'm not specifically talking about you, but many Halo fans in general. We excuse Halo 3s success and the series' subsequent , unrivaled decline as if they were both inevitable. They weren't. If Halo 3 shipped playing like Halo4 it would have met a similar fate- front end sales with no legs. H3 wasn't destined to succeed- it succeeded because it delivered. Halo 3's longevity was a testiment to what Bungie did right and what people actually liked about the game, even years after it was released.

 

[jem]

Of course not, but are there other important factors seriously worth considering on a serious level to a real degree for real as to why it was so popular other than people enjoying its gameplay? Yes.

Who's making "excuses for whatever reason"? Who's saying the "product offering" has nothing to do with it? What are you talking about bo? Am I missing something where someone is blindly saying something unreasonable again? Is it jem? Must be jem.... jem!

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Woah.

I never post mildy inflammatory about the relative quality or lack thereof of current and classic Halos.

Halo 3 is just a steaming pile of human garbage and those who enjoyed it are lying to themselves whereas Halo 5 is god's literal gift to mankind. That's all. I just speak the truth.

 

[Reformed Individual]

Surely if Halo 3 was bad, and people were just nostalgic, they'd play it, realise it wasn't good like they remember, then stop. That's what I've done for games in the past.

 

[FUNKNOWN iXi]

Here's an alternative idea:

People like bad things.​

​

Wild theory, I know.

 

[Reformed Individual]

Yeah but we're talking about Halo 3 here not Halo 5.

 

[Trisc]

It shouldn't be a surprise that Halo 3 is the most popular in TMCC. I don't think its popularity in comparison to the other games in TMCC is indicative of people preferring its gameplay moving forward.

I'm of the opinion that Infinite multiplayer would be best if it takes something from each game. With Halo 3 in particular, it'd be great if Infinite uses projectile weapons instead of hitscan, but with the feel of movement, snappy animations, and responsive controls, I'd much prefer Halo 5 over any other game. One example, switching to the Sword or Gravity Hammer in Halo 3 felt too long, whereas switching weapons in Halo 2 and 5 was quicker.

I know you love Halo 3 and prefer it to the other games, but I don't think it's arguable that it feels like the most sluggish Halo game of all. And the last thing I want is a slow, sluggish Halo game again. I want Spartans to throw grenades far and to feel.... explosive. I want weapons to feel powerful. I don't want to feel weak and slow, which is what I feel like whenever I play Halo 3 today, and is how I felt when I played it for years after 2007.

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I want Spartans to feel mobile, but heavy. I think Halo 5 nailed that feeling in the movement in almost all places, except maybe for jumping. The windup for sprinting, the weight of melee attacks, the rapid deceleration moments after dodging, all that stuff is excellent. That, combined with Halo 3's more deliberate gunfights sounds like a great one-two punch.

Also, Halo 5's clicky-clacky grenades. I love that sound so much. It's a great audio cue.

Frankly, I think Battlefield 5 and Black Ops 4 have a hitscan/projectile hybrid system that Infinite should borrow. After a hitscan projectile has "traveled" a set distance (i.e., the distance you're aiming into is greater than the max hitscan range of the weapon), it turns into a projectile that visibly travels and arcs into the distance. Across multiplayer, zombies, and Blackout/Firestorm, this system allows combat in BF5 and BO4 to feel snappy and personal up-close, without the awkwardness of having to lead targets at point blank, while necessitating more precision aim at a distance.

This kind of hybrid system comes with the benefit of allowing the BR, carbine, and DMR to fill specific niches, where the carbine could be better-suited to up-close firefights (short hitscan range) while the DMR could be more effective at a distance (long hitscan range), with the BR sitting in-between the two.

 

[Defect]

Surely if Halo 3 was bad, and people were just nostalgic, they'd play it, realise it wasn't good like they remember, then stop. That's what I've done for games in the past.

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Halo 3 is bad and I still like playing it. Halo Reach is bad and I hate playing it.

 

[Reformed Individual]

Halo 3 is bad and I still like playing it. Halo Reach is bad and I hate playing it.

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Does Reach even have a skill based ranking system? All I remember is the shitty ranks you could get playing any game modes like Nova and Inheritor and shit, but I cant remember an actual competitive ranking system

 

[Defect]

Does Reach even have a skill based ranking system? All I remember is the shitty ranks you could get playing any game modes like Nova and Inheritor and shit, but I cant remember an actual competitive ranking system

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It had one ranked playlist and it was awful.

Hope they ditch seasonal ranks for Infinite.

 

[RedSparrows]

Frankly, I think Battlefield 5 and Black Ops 4 have a hitscan/projectile hybrid system that Infinite should borrow. After a hitscan projectile has "traveled" a set distance (i.e., the distance you're aiming into is greater than the max hitscan range of the weapon), it turns into a projectile that visibly travels and arcs into the distance. Across multiplayer, zombies, and Blackout/Firestorm, this system allows combat in BF5 and BO4 to feel snappy and personal up-close, without the awkwardness of having to lead targets at point blank, while necessitating more precision aim at a distance.

This kind of hybrid system comes with the benefit of allowing the BR, carbine, and DMR to fill specific niches, where the carbine could be better-suited to up-close firefights (short hitscan range) while the DMR could be more effective at a distance (long hitscan range), with the BR sitting in-between the two.

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I've never heard of a hybrid system, but that'd sure help 4v4 vs BTB/larger issues...

 

[jem]

They should definitely keep seasonal ranks. However, they should make seasons an actual event.

I wrote a big post about this back on GAF about all the various things they could do.

First of all there should be rewards based on well you ranked during the season. Not just an emblem for qualifying for any rank. Take the Rocket League setup where you have to win 'x' number of times at a given rank to receive that rank's award at the end of the season. You could also have season specific commendations. For example: win 50 CTF matches this season to receive a special helmet.

They could tie in major balance patches and new content updates to the start of a new season. Each season could then start with a big landing page which details any new additions and changes made to the game. It could also showcase the various awards you could win and the commendations etc.

At the end of each season each player should be provided with an in game personal stats sheet showing how they performed throughout the season relative to their friends and leaderboards. It could also show how well they performed relative to the previous season.

There could be some AI driven system which automatically clips and stores cool plays during the season (stuff like multikills, noscopes etc) and then at the end makes a personal montage of each player's season highlights.

There should also be a big countdown on the main menu displaying how much time is left during the season. Then they could have events to finish each season. For example in the last day they could have a "double or nothing" event where wins net you double the ranking points but you also lose double the points if you don't win.


If they put some solid work into making seasons interesting it could be awesome.

 

[Trup1aya]

They should definitely keep seasonal ranks. However, they should make seasons an actual event.

I wrote a big post about this back on GAF about all the various things they could do.

First of all there should be rewards based on well you ranked during the season. Not just an emblem for qualifying for any rank. Take the Rocket League setup where you have to win 'x' number of times at a given rank to receive that rank's award at the end of the season. You could also have season specific commendations. For example: win 50 CTF matches this season to receive a special helmet.

They could tie in major balance patches and new content updates to the start of a new season. Each season could then start with a big landing page which details any new additions and changes made to the game. It could also showcase the various awards you could win and the commendations etc.

At the end of each season each player should be provided with an in game personal stats sheet showing how they performed throughout the season relative to their friends and leaderboards. It could also show how well they performed relative to the previous season.

There could be some AI driven system which automatically clips and stores cool plays during the season (stuff like multikills, noscopes etc) and then at the end makes a personal montage of each player's season highlights.

There should also be a big countdown on the main menu displaying how much time is left during the season. Then they could have events to finish each season. For example in the last day they could have a "double or nothing" event where wins net you double the ranking points but you also lose double the points if you don't win.


If they put some solid work into making seasons interesting it could be awesome.

Click to shrink...

I actually agree with all of this. A main draw of Seasons is the incentive for continued engagement with game over the course of the season.

If seasons don't provide any reward beyond the icon and req pack you get after placements- why even have them?

The concept is definitely worth keeping, but execution needs to be way better

 

[nillapuddin]

Just saw on Twitter than wyvern "invented" a nested randomized hill system

r.i.p. me in pieces.

i truly am the windows phone of Halo 5 forge

 

[NOKYARD]

Just saw on Twitter than wyvern "invented" a nested randomized hill system

r.i.p. me in pieces.

i truly am the windows phone of Halo 5 forge

Click to shrink...

Yeah, that's almost exactly the same system we were trying to persuade you to use in the Scripter's Guild Discord.

 

[nillapuddin]

Yeah, that's almost exactly the same system we were trying to persuade you to use in the Scripter's Guild Discord.

Click to shrink...

I see that, moving the circle around although really cute, didn't appeal to me from a cost perspective. It used 4 more objects and the scripting saved was negligible.

Plus seeing the circle move is gross visually, and turning it on after it was in position was just adding another layer of a not broke don't fix scenario.

The mechanics of my circle selector are rock solid, if I knew she was going to pursue I would have shared my research, I offered as open source to anyone who wanted to try ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Good luck to her, if she can find a way for the mini game traits not to completely get messed up over round based games or via drop-in/drop-out, then everything else is easy, I demonstrated that much. I trust her with Map design part of it.

If I knew her personally I'd send her my files, it might help, oh well. Just stinks cause I know she will finish her thing and it be a revelation to everyone. Just gotta be that much better I guess.

 

[NOKYARD]

You could ask her if she can package up her mode so you can apply it to your map. She is really nice to work with and may be open to help you. She already knows who you are since she did the lighting on Avalanche.

 

[nillapuddin]

You could ask her if she can package up her mode so you can apply it to your map. She is really nice to work with and may be open to help you. She already knows who you are since she did the lighting on Avalanche.

Click to shrink...

It all depends on her vision for player deployment, having the pregame lobby fly together in the phantom was essential for me, which created the neccessity for invulnerability while inside of that playspace and to clear those traits when it's left.

I was unwilling to compromise the delivery system of the players, if she chooses a different prematch area or deployment vessel, then it will be irrelevant to her.

I really don't think I have the time or bandwidth to try and reach out because of life stuff right now, but yeah I've been through the growing pains if nothing else. I really enjoy her work so I obviously wish her the best, hopefully she won't need my help.

 

[Forerunner]

I didn't mind the seasonal ranks, but the rewards were trash tier. It was just a nameplate that they changed a little each season and like one req lol. The rewards should be based on how well you performed and also where you placed. If you placed Champion, you should have something to show for it. But nope, your Champion just gets reset in a few months and here's a bad nameplate everyone gets.

 

[oriic]

Well, i think we cant play Reach in April... (Only 4 days to March)

 

[jem]

I didn't mind the seasonal ranks, but the rewards were trash tier. It was just a nameplate that they changed a little each season and like one req lol. The rewards should be based on how well you performed and also where you placed. If you placed Champion, you should have something to show for it. But nope, your Champion just gets reset in a few months and here's a bad nameplate everyone gets.

Click to shrink...

Yup. You should get a unique reward based on where you place.

Also, your current rank and highest achieved rank in the previous season should be prominently displayed on your nameplate. No one gives a shit about Spartan rank. Let us show off the best rank we've achieved instead.

 

[Prinz Eugn]

Bro, halo 3 was the top game on Xbox live for 3 years straight. Not the most popular FPS, not the most popular shooter. The most popular game, period.

And there's were tons of excellent option to choose from- not just shooters, but there were excellent games coming out left and right, Vying for gamers limited time... but so many of those people always came back to halo.

For the sake of discrediting Halo3 and excusing current mediocrity, people don't start considering Halo's competition until Halo actually started losing to the competition. H3 had plenty of competition- H3 kept winning despite it.

In that same time frame, you had Gears of War, Rainbow 6, COD3, CODWaW, COD4, CODMW2, GTA4, Fallout3, Oblivion, Ghost Recon, Battlefront. All of these games are franchises that Halo once competed with from a dominant position, that it now struggles against from a position of mediocrity (with the exception of Ghost Recon)

These same franchise are competing in the same landscape Halo is - dealing with newcomers like Fortnite, overwatch, Apex, etc- yet they are still holding strong AND beating Halo.

Halo also used to trounce all the sports games Madden, 2K, Live, FIFA, etc.. now it can't hold a candle to them.

H3 had competition. Halo's competition has gotten stronger, while Halo got weaker.

Click to shrink...

There was also the allure of our beautiful national parks to deal with!

Halo 3 was overall incredible in terms of ranking system, general updates, DLC, maps, community gametypes, and just overall matchmaking experience. Pretty much everything but the basic feel of running around shooting people was great compared to subsequent Halo games. However, you can't ignore that part of its relative success is borne out of the context in which it was released. Similarly, I'm not saying Halo 5 is the bestest-best game ever, but there are a lot of reasons why it didn't take over Xbox Live that have nothing to do with the gameplay.

There are huge differences in the market segment Halo occupies between when Halo 3 came out and when 5 came out. Most Xbox players play shooters more often than other games, which has been the case basically from the beginning. Other genres just aren't that important of a factor. For example, only 3/20 of the top-five games on Live between 2007-2010 are non-shooters by my count (see below).

So, back in the day, the choice for Xbox players was Halo 3, COD (4 specifically), Gears, or some non-shooter. Halo 3 was obviously a superior choice for most people.

That's way different compared to the competition we see today. Some franchises didn't exist yet, like Titanfall or Destiny, or hadn't made a dent yet on consoles like Battlefield. There were no free to play shooters of note and Battle Royale was a manga. COD was only just starting to develop the relentless release schedule we see today (also, see below). How many COD games have been released since Halo 5 came out? You can't ignore the shear marketing power of having a franchise headlining every few months. In sum, Halo's relative niche is much, much more competitive than it used to be.

We're also at the moment coming at this at a unique gap in Halo history. If we transformed Halo 5's post-release timeline into Halo 3's, we would be playing Reach right now. ODST would have been in 2017.

------
Most played Live games 2007-2010

2007 (https://majornelson.com/2008/01/04/top-xbox-live-games-of-2007/ )
1. Halo 3
2. Gears of War
3. Call of Duty 4
4. Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six Vegas
5. Call Of Duty 3

2008 (https://majornelson.com/2009/01/04/the-top-20-live-games-of-2008/ )
1. Halo 3
2. Call of Duty 4
3. GTA IV
4. Gears of War 2
5. Gears of War

2009 (https://majornelson.com/2010/01/11/the-top-20-live-games-of-2009/ )
1. Halo 3
2. Call of Duty 4
3. Modern Warfare 2
4. Call of Duty: WaW
5. Gears of War 2

2010 ( https://majornelson.com/2011/02/03/top-xbox-live-games-of-2010/ )
1. Call of Duty: Black Ops
2. Halo: Reach
3. Red Dead Redemption
4. Fable III
5. Battlefield: Bad Co. 2

 

[The Real Napsta]

H3 being most played in 2007 when it was only out for what? 3 months? Is incredible.

 

[Trup1aya]

There was also the allure of our beautiful national parks to deal with!

Halo 3 was overall incredible in terms of ranking system, general updates, DLC, maps, community gametypes, and just overall matchmaking experience. Pretty much everything but the basic feel of running around shooting people was great compared to subsequent Halo games. However, you can't ignore that part of its relative success is borne out of the context in which it was released. Similarly, I'm not saying Halo 5 is the bestest-best game ever, but there are a lot of reasons why it didn't take over Xbox Live that have nothing to do with the gameplay.

There are huge differences in the market segment Halo occupies between when Halo 3 came out and when 5 came out. Most Xbox players play shooters more often than other games, which has been the case basically from the beginning. Other genres just aren't that important of a factor. For example, only 3/20 of the top-five games on Live between 2007-2010 are non-shooters by my count (see below).

So, back in the day, the choice for Xbox players was Halo 3, COD (4 specifically), Gears, or some non-shooter. Halo 3 was obviously a superior choice for most people.

That's way different compared to the competition we see today. Some franchises didn't exist yet, like Titanfall or Destiny, or hadn't made a dent yet on consoles like Battlefield. There were no free to play shooters of note and Battle Royale was a manga. COD was only just starting to develop the relentless release schedule we see today (also, see below). How many COD games have been released since Halo 5 came out? You can't ignore the shear marketing power of having a franchise headlining every few months. In sum, Halo's relative niche is much, much more competitive than it used to be.

We're also at the moment coming at this at a unique gap in Halo history. If we transformed Halo 5's post-release timeline into Halo 3's, we would be playing Reach right now. ODST would have been in 2017.

------
Most played Live games 2007-2010

2007 (https://majornelson.com/2008/01/04/top-xbox-live-games-of-2007/ )
1. Halo 3
2. Gears of War
3. Call of Duty 4
4. Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six Vegas
5. Call Of Duty 3

2008 (https://majornelson.com/2009/01/04/the-top-20-live-games-of-2008/ )
1. Halo 3
2. Call of Duty 4
3. GTA IV
4. Gears of War 2
5. Gears of War

2009 (https://majornelson.com/2010/01/11/the-top-20-live-games-of-2009/ )
1. Halo 3
2. Call of Duty 4
3. Modern Warfare 2
4. Call of Duty: WaW
5. Gears of War 2

2010 ( https://majornelson.com/2011/02/03/top-xbox-live-games-of-2010/ )
1. Call of Duty: Black Ops
2. Halo: Reach
3. Red Dead Redemption
4. Fable III
5. Battlefield: Bad Co. 2

Click to shrink...

There ARE huge differences in the market segment that H5 deals with that H3 didn't- but every current game is also dealing with these same changes in the market- and Halo is uniquely fairing poorly in comparison to franchise that co-existed with Halo 3.

You can't use the growth of COD, and Battlefield as an excuse for Halo's lack of subsequent success - their growth, at Halo's expense, is the result of them getting better at competing with Halo. It's the result of those franchises being handled properly (relatively... they have had serious missteps) and the Halo franchise being mishandled. Those two franchises currently occupy the exact same market and are fairing better in it.

Does it all boil down to gameplay? No, I don't think so. Does the opportunity for annual marketing help? Maybe? But why do I also hear "Halo fatigue" being used as an excuse despite it having new main line releases less frequently than its competition?

The constant hunt for excuses is tiring to me. First it's Halo had no competition. Then it's Halo's competition wasn't established and now that it is, Halo was destined to decline. Then it's there's too Halo much over the years, and people are simply getting tired of it. Now it's there wasn't enough Halo to keep it on everyone's mind. These are conflicting theories.

At the end of the day, the handlers of Halo weren't doing the right things to help maintain the franchises revelancy as the stakes of the competition and expectations of gamers has shifted - and that includes failures in the narrative, in the feature suite, in the presentation, in the marketing, in the progression systems, in the post-launch, in the quality control, in the UX/UI , in the engine and undoubtedly in the gameplay design.

To chalk Halo's decline as an inevitability due to the environmental forces ignores what other, similarly old franchises have done to avoid the same fate in the same environment and what new franchise have done to carve out dominating positions in a difficult, crowding environment.

I'll say it again: Halo isn't uniquely vulnerable to the forces competition. Every game is subject to them. But Halo has been uniquely unable to respond to the forces of competition. To understand why that is, we have to look AT HALO ITSELF. We live in a world where 3 COD games are simultaneously more popular on xbl than Microsoft's premier franchise. It was 4 COD games behind until Blops4 finally got enough people to drop Blops2 on 360. You can't blame that on Fortnite.

 

[Tawpgun]

Halo 3 was Halo's peak. You can argue quality and personal preference but the numbers do not lie.

Definitely a very fitting end to the trilogy.

I do remember being disappointed at the initial Reach reveal when it was just the same gameplay with dumb abilities and shit aim. Was kinda hoping they'd do something more interesting with the IP.