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Gowans

Moderator
Oct 27, 2017
5,523
North East, UK
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A ban on adverts featuring "harmful gender stereotypes" or those which are likely to cause "serious or widespread offence" has come into force.

The ban covers scenarios such as a man with his feet up while a woman cleans, or a woman failing to park a car.

The UK's advertising watchdog introduced the ban because it found some portrayals could play a part in "limiting people's potential".
It said it was pleased with how advertisers had responded.

The new rule follows a review of gender stereotyping in adverts by the Advertising Standards Authority (ASA) - the organisation that administers the UK Advertising Codes, which cover both broadcast and non-broadcast adverts, including online and social media.
The ASA said the review had found evidence suggesting that harmful stereotypes could "restrict the choices, aspirations and opportunities of children, young people and adults and these stereotypes can be reinforced by some advertising, which plays a part in unequal gender outcomes".
"Our evidence shows how harmful gender stereotypes in ads can contribute to inequality in society, with costs for all of us. Put simply, we found that some portrayals in ads can, over time, play a part in limiting people's potential," said ASA chief executive Guy Parker.


An advert for baby formula Aptamil was accused of reinforcing gender stereotypes

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'Stereotypes'

Blogger and father of two Jim Coulson thinks the ban is a good idea. He dislikes adverts that perpetuate stereotypes about dads being "useless".
"It's the small things though that build up, and the small things are what inform the subconscious," he told the BBC.
"That's the problem... that adverts rely on stereotypes. We know why they do it, because it's easy. "
But columnist Angela Epstein disagrees, and thinks that society has become "over-sensitive".
"There's a lot of big things we need to fight over - equality over pay, bullying in the workplace, domestic violence, sexual harassment - these are really big issues that we need to fight over equally," she told the BBC.

"But when you chuck in the fact that women are doing the dishes [in advertisements], it's not in the same sphere. When we lump it all together and become desensitised, we devalue those important arguments we need to have."

'Lack of diversity'

As part of its review, the ASA brought together members of the public and showed them various adverts to gauge how they felt about how men and women were depicted.
One of them was a 2017 television advert for Aptamil baby milk formula, which showed a baby girl growing up to be a ballerina and baby boys engineers and mountain climbers.
The ASA found some parents "felt strongly about the gender based aspirations shown in this advert specifically noting the stereotypical future professions of the boys and girls shown.
"These parents queried why these stereotypes were needed, feeling that they lacked diversity of gender roles and did not represent real life."
At the time it was released, the campaign prompted complaints but the ASA did not find grounds for a formal investigation as it did not break the rules.
However, Fernando Desouches, managing director of marketing agency New Macho, which specialises in targeting men, said this was an example of a past advert that would not pass the new ASA legislation.

He said it showed how easy it can be for "deeply entrenched views on gender to come through in an ad that purports to be caring and nurturing of future generations." He was "unsurprised it generated a backlash".

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Other situations likely to fall foul of the new rule include:
  • Adverts which show a man or a woman failing at a task because of their gender, like a man failing to change a nappy or a woman failing to park
  • Adverts aimed at new mothers which suggest that looking good or keeping a home tidy is more important than emotional wellbeing
  • Adverts which belittle a man for carrying out stereotypically female roles
However, the new rules do not preclude the use of all gender stereotypes. The ASA said the aim was to identify "specific harms" that should be prevented.
So, for example, adverts would still be able to show women doing the shopping or men doing DIY, or use gender stereotypes as a way of challenging their negative effects.

The ASA outlined the new rules at the end of last year, giving advertisers six months to prepare for their introduction.
Mr Parker said the watchdog was pleased with how the industry had already responded.

The ASA said it would deal with any complaints on a case-by-case basis and would assess each advert by looking at the "content and context" to determine if the new rule had been broken.

 
Oct 29, 2017
4,057
They had some dickhead of a woman on Breakfast tomorrow talking about how there's more important gender issues and how when we all argue about this it's taking away from other issues.

And, it's like, we're not arguing. It's been done. You're arguing. Talk about those other issues if you want to, nobody is making you talk about this.

Also, typical slippery slope whataboutism but this is a law so the line is pretty obvious.

The Aptamil advert is so, so bad.
 

Messofanego

Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,191
UK
That columnist who is a critic of this, Angela Epstein (maybe she's a conservative?), also criticised her friends' appearances in the Daily Mail and didn't want to hang around with "dowdy dames" because she's doing everything in her power to look young. Massive insecurity about ageing and appearances to the point she writes herself a decade younger than her actual age on Facebook. So, not a surprise she would be for dated gender stereotypes!

Her own ridiculous words:
Angela Epstein said:
Whether it's shoe-horning myself into skinny jeans, teetering about on sky-high heels or coyly not revealing my real age, I'll do almost anything to fight off the vice-like grip of middle age.

As a natural redhead, I'm yet to find a rogue silvery strand among my youthful long locks. But the moment I do, I'll have my stylist on speed dial to ensure that it never happens again.

Then there are those passion-killing anti-wrinkle plasters I insist on wearing in bed in an attempt to de-crease stubborn frown lines overnight.

Yet it's all in vain because, try as I might, there are three factors over which I have no control that give the game away. Namely, the company I keep - my three frumpy friends who make me feel, and look, every year of my near half-century (OK, I'll admit to being 48).

I know I am breaking one of the most sacred taboos of female friendship in criticising my friends' appearance. But there is nothing more ageing than hanging out with dowdy dames. In my case, the prime suspects are - yes, I'm daring to name names - my friend of 40 years, Lynne, 50, who has recently let her gorgeous chestnut mane turn a dull shade of pewter (needlessly ageing her, in my view); Debra, 41, who goes clothes-hunting for wrap dresses in M&S with her grandma, and Barbara, 50, who these days eschews heels for the dreaded 'flatties'.

Now don't get me wrong. I love these girls to pieces. Even though they insist I'm the tragic one for trying to cling on to youth with my manicured, trendy royal blue nails.

But when Barbara talks lovingly of her gorgeous grandson, then people ask if I'm also a grandmother, I feel the years bearing down on me. How am I supposed to look younger when I'm acquiring years by default?

All the more reason, my husband would say, to stop trying to kid myself that I can still get away with a mini-skirt and thigh-high boots. So much for loyalty!

Not that I would ever consider dumping my friends for the sake of vanity. We've been through thick and thin, youth and, now, ever- encroaching age together. It's just that I wish they would - well - try to keep up with my standards, now and then.

Take Lynne. We grew up a few streets away from each other, travelled together on the school bus and have been through everything from the birth of our children (we have four each) to the loss of parents.

As well as being a hard-working dentist and a brilliant wife and mother, she is also annoyingly accomplished (amazing cook, keen potter, deft seamstress -you name it, she can make it).

On top of that, she is spectacularly attractive. Through our adolescence and student years, she was always the one boys wanted to go out with.

So when, last August, grey streaks began peppering her hitherto chestnut hair, I assumed this consummate multi-tasker had inadvertently dropped one of her juggling balls.

However, as more and more of her head turned a rather unappealing, grannyish gunmetal grey, I jokingly asked Lynne if she was aware what was happening on top.

Her answer was short and to the point. Yes, she was. Quite simply, at the age of 49 she had decided it was time to let nature take its course.

I was poleaxed. Not only because my otherwise beautiful friend was giving in to this incontrovertible sign of middle age, but because she is only a year older than me - and I wouldn't allow one silver strand on my head.

And hanging around with this grey-haired, obviously middle-aged woman would surely betray my real age.
 

Jeff Albertson

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
2,685
Good stuff, it's been better in recent years with no 'that's why mums go to Iceland' stuff

One of the main stereotypes you see is the hapless Dad being bailed out by Mum but I'm ok with that in a way because that's me, I'm Daddy Pig who tries to hang a picture and breaks the wall instead!
 

danowat

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,783
I am very quickly coming to the realisation that I am from a very different generation than the vast majority of people on here.

There are lots of things that I don't understand, this being one of them, and I like to think that I am quite left leaning progressive person, at least for someone born in the 70's

So I think I have two options, try and reconfigure my brain to fit in with this new way of thinking, or accept that I am too old and my views no longer correlate with places like this, and disappear into the wild blue yonder.

Funny old thing getting old :(
 

Dead Man

Member
Nov 1, 2017
569
This seems fine to me. I like the inclusion of the idiot male stereotype in the example list.
 

Deleted member 50454

User requested account closure
Banned
Dec 5, 2018
1,847
I am very quickly coming to the realisation that I am from a very different generation than the vast majority of people on here.

There are lots of things that I don't understand, this being one of them, and I like to think that I am quite left leaning progressive person, at least for someone born in the 70's

So I think I have two options, try and reconfigure my brain to fit in with this new way of thinking, or accept that I am too old and my views no longer correlate with places like this, and disappear into the wild blue yonder.

Funny old thing getting old :(

What are you struggling to understand?
 

danowat

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,783
What are you struggling to understand?
I personally don't think the gender roles depicted are harmful, but I guess that's because I come from an era where these roles where the norm.

That's not that I expect woman to do those roles, I just don't see any harm in what I see to be traditional gender roles depicted in advertising.

But I can also see that others view it differently.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,293
I personally don't think the gender roles depicted are harmful, but I guess that's because I come from an era where these roles where the norm.

That's not that I expect woman to do those roles, I just don't see any harm in what I see to be traditional gender roles depicted in advertising.

But I can also see that others view it differently.
An easy way to solve this instead of throwing your hands up and going "welp I'm too old for these progressive ideas lawl!" is to actually talk to people who deal with and study these issues. They know a lot more about harmful gender depictions than you ever will. Educate yourself. It's not as hard as it seems, honestly.
 

danowat

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,783
An easy way to solve this instead of throwing your hands up and going "welp I'm too old for these progressive ideas lawl!" is to actually talk to people who deal with and study these issues. Educate yourself. It's not as hard as it seems, honestly.
Over 4 decades of engrained views and beliefs aren't that easy to erase.

But let's say for arguments sake, the issue of an advert showing a woman hoovering, in a day and age where all genders are shown from an early age that they don't need to settle for traditional gender roles, why is it harmful?
 

BlackGoku03

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,275
An easy way to solve this instead of throwing your hands up and going "welp I'm too old for these progressive ideas lawl!" is to actually talk to people who deal with and study these issues. They know a lot more about harmful gender depictions than you ever will. Educate yourself. It's not as hard as it seems, honestly.
He said why. Maybe point him in the right direction?
 

Zaph

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,102
But let's say for arguments sake, the issue of an advert showing a woman hoovering, in a day and age where all genders are shown from an early age that they don't need to settle for traditional gender roles, why is it harmful?
How do you think that came about? Progression doesn't just happen by itself.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,293
Over 4 decades of engrained views and beliefs aren't that easy to erase.

But let's say for arguments sake, the issue of an advert showing a woman hoovering, in a day and age where all genders are shown from an early age that they don't need to settle for traditional gender roles, why is it harmful?
I mean, if you realize that's all they are then you should also realize how fucking dumb those biases are to begin with. Self-reflection is a requirement for learning to listen to others and changing your perspective. It seems to me that you are fully capable of that? Stop seeing it as a contest of arguments and just listen. You'll be surprised how much value you can find in that once you let go of your own internal presumptions. Or to put it a simpler way: you are not a woman. Of fucking course you don't have the most reasonable perspective on this particular question. Why would you? People need to stop overvaluing their own perspective in questions they know nothing about. That's all I'm saying.

As for the specifics of your question; there are plenty of materials out there within academia. Go read some studies if you are genuinely interested. The topic is far too complex to give a simple quick answer aside from the cliched "because it reinforces gender roles, duh" which I realize is not the answer you are looking for.

He said why. Maybe point him in the right direction?
Done.
 

Semfry

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,956
But let's say for arguments sake, the issue of an advert showing a woman hoovering, in a day and age where all genders are shown from an early age that they don't need to settle for traditional gender roles, why is it harmful?

Context.

Showing a woman doing hoovering/housework in an advert has nothing wrong with it in itself, but when at least 90% of adverts with hoovering/housework have a woman doing it it's reinforcing a certain stereotype.
 

ProfessorLobo

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
1,523
Bad. I'm glad I don't live in the UK. Slippery slope and all that. And this is coming from someone who's progressive as shit. I love when Facebook bans right wing people, I don't even care if it's in their TOS or not.

But Facebook isn't the government.
 
Nov 14, 2017
4,928
I am very quickly coming to the realisation that I am from a very different generation than the vast majority of people on here.

There are lots of things that I don't understand, this being one of them, and I like to think that I am quite left leaning progressive person, at least for someone born in the 70's

So I think I have two options, try and reconfigure my brain to fit in with this new way of thinking, or accept that I am too old and my views no longer correlate with places like this, and disappear into the wild blue yonder.

Funny old thing getting old :(
The idea that girls should be ballerinas and boys should be engineers would have been considered sexist even in the 70s.
 

Radeo

Banned
Apr 26, 2019
1,305
Over 4 decades of engrained views and beliefs aren't that easy to erase.

But let's say for arguments sake, the issue of an advert showing a woman hoovering, in a day and age where all genders are shown from an early age that they don't need to settle for traditional gender roles, why is it harmful?

By itself it isn't inherently harmful. It's more that the overwhelming majority of depictions of household chores like cooking and cleaning are shown to be women, reinforcing the housewife role. A lot of them go even further by showing the husband attempt to do chores and fail, only for the woman to come in and save the day because that's what they're there for.

Is being a housewife bad? Not at all, and we're moving away from that being the norm, but more often than not you're still going to assume the wife is the person to deal with the kids and the house instead of the man when you see a family right?

"Harmful" might seem a bit harsh, but even unconsciously we tend to steer boys and girls towards different paths.

Bad. I'm glad I don't live in the UK. Slippery slope and all that. And this is coming from someone who's progressive as shit. I love when Facebook bans right wing people, I don't even care if it's in their TOS or not.

But Facebook isn't the government.

ASA/CAP is not the government, they're independent watchdogs. Slippery slope horseshit is dumb, the article even says they were given 6 months notice and that adverts can be assessed case-by-case. Marketing has ranged from borderline to overt brainwashing for far too long and it's good that it's finally getting reigned in, even if it's just one specific aspect in this case. There is an absolute shit ton of money invested into research for how to manipulate people through marketing and it's about time it was called out
 

Dyno

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
13,321
I am very quickly coming to the realisation that I am from a very different generation than the vast majority of people on here.

There are lots of things that I don't understand, this being one of them, and I like to think that I am quite left leaning progressive person, at least for someone born in the 70's

So I think I have two options, try and reconfigure my brain to fit in with this new way of thinking, or accept that I am too old and my views no longer correlate with places like this, and disappear into the wild blue yonder.

Funny old thing getting old :(

I mean, you have almost 20 years on me and I can kind of get what you're saying, but I think its poorly communicated in the article and perhaps short sighted in its construction too. I think the issue lies in the disproportionate amount of women hoovering in adverts etc, but by extension it should be allowed to be distributed evenly rather than just 'no women hoovering in ads at all' which is kind of what it sounds like by the wording.
 

Keyser S

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
8,480
Even 25 years on, I still remember this advert.




Ads can be wholesome and good too.

Chips BTW!!
 

Boy Wander

Alt Account
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
2,126
UK
The "idiot/incompetent dad" trope in ads needs to die.

Yeah. Despite there being tropes around women doing the housework etc, women are at least generally represented as being somewhat intelligent. Dads seem to be represented as UK versions of Homer Simpson who need a woman to stop them fucking up.
 

Ragnorok64

Banned
Nov 6, 2017
2,955
I need more examples of what actual ads they're banning under these rules. A baby with an abacus being good at math when he grows up doesn't seem offensive. Or a baby growing up to be a ballerina for that matter.
 
Jan 2, 2018
10,699
The idea that girls should be ballerinas and boys should be engineers would have been considered sexist even in the 70s.

I really don't think that's true. I'm 23 and even in my youth some people probably would've raised an eyebrow if a girl in grade school wanted to be a firefighter or a boy wanted to be a dancer for example. I can't imagine that people were that progressive in the 70s.
 
Nov 14, 2017
4,928
I really don't think that's true. I'm 23 and even in my youth some people probably would've raised an eyebrow if a girl in grade school wanted to be a firefighter or a boy wanted to be a dancer for example. I can't imagine that people were that progressive in the 70s.
You had notable feminist writers such as Germaine Greer (unfortunately now a TERF) in the 70s. While sexism was and still remains common in popular culture, anyone who considers themselves leftist or progressive such as the person I was replying to would be aware of harmful gender stereotypes.

Think about it this way: if you were born in the 70s, you would have been in your 20s in the 90s. I can't imagine anyone being that age, at that time, and being left wing while not understanding gender stereotypes.
 

ProfessorLobo

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
1,523
It's not the Government. It's the ASA.
By itself it isn't inherently harmful. It's more that the overwhelming majority of depictions of household chores like cooking and cleaning are shown to be women, reinforcing the housewife role. A lot of them go even further by showing the husband attempt to do chores and fail, only for the woman to come in and save the day because that's what they're there for.

Is being a housewife bad? Not at all, and we're moving away from that being the norm, but more often than not you're still going to assume the wife is the person to deal with the kids and the house instead of the man when you see a family right?

"Harmful" might seem a bit harsh, but even unconsciously we tend to steer boys and girls towards different paths.



ASA/CAP is not the government, they're independent watchdogs. Slippery slope horseshit is dumb, the article even says they were given 6 months notice and that adverts can be assessed case-by-case. Marketing has ranged from borderline to overt brainwashing for far too long and it's good that it's finally getting reigned in, even if it's just one specific aspect in this case. There is an absolute shit ton of money invested into research for how to manipulate people through marketing and it's about time it was called out
Then who's enforcing these rules?
 
Oct 31, 2017
10,056
Good. Can they shut down Love Island and all the reality tv shows that promote absolutely vapid, regressive gender stereotypes as well?
 

Aftermath

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,756
Good why not have progression?

I am 37yrs old just 3 yrs short of 40 and am happy for whatever change they bring, I was born a millennial so maybe that's why I don't mind.

Besides

It's fucking adverts anyway people, the thing that people supposedly despise the most yet as soon as they stray away from the norm & start being progressive , it's all "not mah adverts noooo, don't make them different"
 
Jan 2, 2018
10,699
You had notable feminist writers such as Germaine Greer (unfortunately now a TERF) in the 70s. While sexism was and still remains common in popular culture, anyone who considers themselves leftist or progressive such as the person I was replying to would be aware of harmful gender stereotypes.

Think about it this way: if you were born in the 70s, you would have been in your 20s in the 90s. I can't imagine anyone being that age, at that time, and being left wing while not understanding gender stereotypes.

Ah! I misunderstood you! Thank you for the clarification. Makes sense if you put it this way.
 

XDevil666

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,985
I am very quickly coming to the realisation that I am from a very different generation than the vast majority of people on here.

There are lots of things that I don't understand, this being one of them, and I like to think that I am quite left leaning progressive person, at least for someone born in the 70's

So I think I have two options, try and reconfigure my brain to fit in with this new way of thinking, or accept that I am too old and my views no longer correlate with places like this, and disappear into the wild blue yonder.

Funny old thing getting old :(
Just say what I do now, it's 2019 your able to do it yourself