New Zealand is also islands. Every country with few or no shared frontier/limited travel has done well, unsurprisingly.
Hasan Piker criticizes Joe Rogan for saying lockdowns don't work
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Joe Rogan is a cunt.
I‘m happy Hasan has gotten as popular as he has and can maybe guide some young men away from cancerous pieces of trash like Rogan.
I‘m happy Hasan has gotten as popular as he has and can maybe guide some young men away from cancerous pieces of trash like Rogan.
People need to pay more attention to that clip where Bill Burr roasts Rogan for not being a medical expert after he starts downplaying the virus.
Unfortunately people will write it off as a sick burn and not apply what Bill said to the rest of the JRE.
Unfortunately people will write it off as a sick burn and not apply what Bill said to the rest of the JRE.
'Why in the age of testing are those rules applicable' (referring to lockdown measures etc)
Joe Rogan is such a fucking imbecile
Joe Rogan is such a fucking imbecile
Spotify paid hundreds of millions for this shit. Wow.
It's a bad cold he says... (meanwhile, 500k Americans died)
It's a bad cold he says... (meanwhile, 500k Americans died)
Limbaugh was more malicious while Rogan is super impressionable
Except when it comes to trans people then he just terrible
Did all states in the US have similar levels of lockdowns? Did they all have similar levels of stringency?
You can see similar charts at a country level. You can also look for studies that try and fail to establish a relationship between lockdown / policy stringency and health results, there are several. Again, people keep pointing to the same 6 examples without acknowledging these are complete outliers.
There was clearly a huge holiday+Seasonality (indoors, low UV, cold) driven surge in much of the world, including the US. Did cases drop soon after everywhere because those conditions changed? Or because lockdowns were implemented in some places and with varying levels of stringency but seemingly identical results?
People want to believe that there was some easy answer to control this pandemic, and it’s just because every single government outside of NEW ZEALAND!!!11!! is full of idiots that we’ve had so much death and suffering, but the reality is far more complicated and unfortunately outcomes don’t cleanly line up with you political ideology of choice.
Are you trying to state that regardless of individual state policies, the effects of corona virus was the same?
You posted a tweet with a bunch of unlabeled graphs all going down and seem to imply that this means the conditions in all states are the same.
Transphobia I don't know, but he didn't defend the guy using the N word, he said it was fucked up. He said that his experience with the person was that he wasn't that sort of person.
With Limbaugh you could see him for the scum that he was.
With Rogan, people get the wrong impression that he means well or is just dumb. Maybe that's worse because it indoctrinates people without them realizing, with a facade or veneer of well intended curiosity. When in reality, he only signal boosts people with problematic world views.
The charts are clearly labeled. They show hospitalizations per capita by state over the last 28 days. They all show identical trajectories. Conditions and policies are not identical in all states, yet the pandemic’s current behavior is. You can draw your own conclusions, but I can tell you which ones would NOT be supported by what we see here.
I know so many people who think this guy is such a great interviewer/thinker. So fucking depressing.
Is that last screenshot meant to illustrate how Rogan still hosts grifters (Jones)?
I don't see this as compelling evidence that lockdowns should be reduced though. There have been plenty of case scenarios showing infections shooting upwards thanks to lax controls.
Good for you. But you guys are islands thousands of miles away from anybody else and it started during your summer. It was far easier for you to control. See also South Korea (north korea makes it an island in effect as there's no land crossings), Taiwan, Hawaii, etc."Lockdowns don't work"
Meanwhile here in the southern hemisphere:
I get to go barhopping and catch a movie this weekend without risking the lives of other people. If that aint considered 'working' then I don't know what is.
Yes lockdowns helped. But this OMG THEY DID EVERYTHING RIGHT grandstanding is really annoying and incorrect. See the same winter boom we had (yours was just earlier because of Southern hemisphere)
Really happy but claiming other states could do this is fanciful thinking. There's two things that have helped the most until vaccines... Authoritarian lock downs and Geographic Isolation
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It's not just being isolated. We still bring people into the country but there are real restrictions in place from the moment any sign of community cases exist and proportionally less people protesting (though they still exist). Its been treated very seriously by the government and media, and people generally from very early on.
Yes its not JUST isolation but its a major major part of it because very few people could enter.
They were in the EU, have a train connecting them with France, have massive foreign populations that needed to come home, and miles not thousands of miles away from another country. The outbreak was already in italy for weeks and during that time people could come and go to england... Australia/New Zealand had so much time and so few visitors relative during their period. Australia's isolation, and self autonomy made is so much easier...
As is the messaging by authorities and media+news and not waiting until its a national disaster.
He did downplay the transphobia, became extremely dismissive and aggressive against those bringing it up and then said liberals complaining about the cyberpunk transphobia were the left wing equivalent to right wing hacks online.
Every government could easily do it far better. You could lock down communities or cities, let you self isolate and get food via online shops/supermarkets, let you do tests so you can only enter those supermarkets if you want if you do not have symptoms etc.
This is exactly what happens in countries which are not an island and it seems to work. Vietnam, China, Thailand etc.
Even Italy and Spain did that (but far too late) when the numbers were really high and I wouldnt even call them authoritarian states. Governments can easily do that.
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nobody knew anything when people were flying all around Europe when a fraction were going to Australia which made the cases easier to isolate early. the EU still needs people crossing borders for essentials. You guys can do a lot of it yourself or with a few ports and isolated airports.
The west knew nothing until it was too late. You guys had isolation, and time that could make the Authorities seem competent. And lets not pretend all of australia acted and obeyed. And lets all look to an island country of 4 million (my metro area alone as 5 times more) and compare it with the rest of the world.
I'm happy for ya'll but that was no replicable without isolation. The leadership and how "magically" they obeyed wasn't the reason.
Literally there's whole books about New Zealand being the place to go after a nuclear war because its so isolated...
These are authorianian states and no spain and italys weren't that kind of lockdown or social control.
I'm not going to convince you all. Its just another form of self superiority and gawking at others under the guise of "others could have done this!"
It could have been better but we were never getting Australia's or New Zealand's performance. There never was a chance.
I'm not excusing the US's poor performance. I'm just sick of magical thinking
I'd say lockdowns work if governments employ them early and consistently. What doesn't work is trying a "lockdown light", and then after weeks and weeks of rising numbers going for a real one half-heartedly. That's what we have had in Austria, and we basically couldn't get the second wave to really stop.
Austria didn't start to even consider a real lockdown until just before the peak of that second wave, and we have been in one form of "lockdown" since then, with a small break in December, to allow for Christmas shopping.
To be fair, part of why this wave has never really stopped are the new mutations and variants of Covid, but it also feels like people just stopped really following most of the containment measures.
Austria didn't start to even consider a real lockdown until just before the peak of that second wave, and we have been in one form of "lockdown" since then, with a small break in December, to allow for Christmas shopping.
To be fair, part of why this wave has never really stopped are the new mutations and variants of Covid, but it also feels like people just stopped really following most of the containment measures.
This is some incredible special pleading.
it’s not about being an island is it. In fact if the virus were to get into a small island like Samoa, and they didn’t have full lock downs and all the other measures, the island would be fucking devastated.
You think Australia and new zealand dont have large amounts of visitors? A huge percentage of their income is tourism!
NZ had a massive spike of cases at first from tourists, and it spread all across the country immediately. I went to the main emergency centre and saw how seriously it was taken and the support that was given to communities. NZ went immediately into a very serious lockdown and enforced a 2 week quarantine for people coming over the border (all countries have borders, people aren’t swimming across the channel to get into England). And they keep doing that every time there is a new outbreak, no matter how small, because they know that it spreads... like a virus.
Countries that place strong quarantine policies at the border, have populations and governments that take social distancing, testing, lockdown of public places and restricted movement seriously, did well against the pandemic... and those that refused to do those things properly, are fucking consistent plague zones with no sign of changing until a vaccine is rolled out. And even then it’s questionable whether or not the vaccine will be effective simply because enough of the population is so ignorant or anti-science (pro freedom) that a large percentage of them will refuse to be vaccinated.
Preventing virus spreading is not about being on an island, it’s about treating every family or group as their own island. It’s as simple as that. but that can only happen if all the people take action as soon as possible and as vigilantly as possible. some countries just do not have a culture that is compatible with that.
Australia and New Zealand weren't cut off instantly at that point, people were still traveling in March last year. Australia isn't some difficult to get to location just because its the other side of an ocean from the USA. It is very close to SE Asia and has loads of traffic from China.
If people follow the rules, lockdowns work, when we get a partial lockdown it doesn't work. To have them really work you need to get the cases so low that every interaction is trackable, and most places reopen well before that. Within Australia you can see that from the lockdown Victoria had where cases exploded then they closed everything until they were back down to ZERO.
I am in Switzerland and we just opened a bunch of stuff up again, despite never getting to less than 1100 new cases PER DAY. Of course, the lockdowns don't work when you don't get down to a low enough number of cases, this thing spreads exponentially.
The people saying that all of the successful countries were isolated, authoritarian or lucky, really makes me despair.
Their argument basically boils down to ‘there’s nothing that could be done’.
The worry is that when we inevitably get a much more dangerous and deadly virus, I now know exactly what will happen, and what the standard mindset will be... DENIAL.
Their argument basically boils down to ‘there’s nothing that could be done’.
The worry is that when we inevitably get a much more dangerous and deadly virus, I now know exactly what will happen, and what the standard mindset will be... DENIAL.
Uhm? Yes. In Spain and Italy you had full city lockdowns with Police going out and checking if you are allowed to be:
Italian police are using drones to track down citizens who violate one of the strictest coronavirus lockdowns in Europe
Italy has been one of the countries hardest hit by the coronavirus pandemic and penalties for violating its lockdown fines and jail time.
www.businessinsider.com
Just to add thing, the peak tourist season falls in the warmest months of the Southern Hemisphere, when people naturally spend time outdoors and windows are open for air circulation. The epidemic and ultimately the pandemic began in Europe's winter tourist resorts and the first reaction of heavy hitter states like UK and Netherlands were the immunisation. They did not want a quarantine like Wuhan and did a 180° turn much too late.
Guy claims lockdowns don't work and I respond with multiple examples of where lockdowns did work.
Somehow this translates to:
- Grandstanding
- Claiming we did everything right
- Claiming that other states could replicate this if they did the same thing
Yep people just don’t like to admit that their own country didn’t do a great job.
The most important takeaway imo is border closures. We have massive wait lists for residents to come from overseas as we’re only taking so many at a time, and enforcing strict 2 week quarantine periods.
Hell here in Australia states have been doing hard border closures with each other when cases have spiked, when places like the UK and US have had people flying in from all over and flying interstate with no restrictions at all for a lot of the pandemic.
Yep, even now in the UK a few weeks ago it was all over the news that they were doing "Australia style hotel quarantine" but it was only for travelers from selected countries and many others could still walk in with no issues at all. It only works if you do it the hard way and the UK and a lot of Europe chose the "easy" way, which still killed lots of people and businesses and resulted in the situation we have now where we look at other countries where they can go out for a meal and marvel at it like they are an astronaut in space.
I could not fucking believe it when I found out that passengers flying around the US did not have to be tested for coronavirus... while they were in the midst of literal world record breaking numbers every day.
where were the countermeasures? That is so basic.
Honestly it’s criminal negligence and it has caused the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people. If we can’t learn from this then what can we learn from?
The Covid-19 timeline where I live exactly (Alberta, Canada).
Pandemic starts and virus spreads > Lockdowns announced > Virus cases diminish to low double digits > Lockdowns eased > Virus spreads uncontrollably to 2000+ a day in a Province of 4.5M people > Lockdowns announced > Cases diminish to 300-400 a day.
Every little thing and measure they tried before the second lockdown did not work. The second lockdown worked. Lockdowns work.
Pandemic starts and virus spreads > Lockdowns announced > Virus cases diminish to low double digits > Lockdowns eased > Virus spreads uncontrollably to 2000+ a day in a Province of 4.5M people > Lockdowns announced > Cases diminish to 300-400 a day.
Every little thing and measure they tried before the second lockdown did not work. The second lockdown worked. Lockdowns work.
While I wont disagree that isolation has helped Australia significantly, there are other things that Australia did correctly or characteristics that helped:
- Australia activated its pandemic settings relatively early compared to other countries
- Despite being a federation of states like America (with their own constitutional powers), Australia has been better able to work together despite ideological differences (although it has been extremely messy). In addition, there are now rolling intergovernmental meetings between the leaders of all states and territories.
- Even before the pandemic Australians had a greater trust in their government than most countries
- Travel by Australians overseas was banned early to prevent people going overseas and bringing back the virus
- There was a significant outbreak in one Australia state that was completely eliminated via a three month lockdown of one state (i.e. the threats to Australia weren't just external as some people like to suggest - the virus was on the loose in Australia)
- this state was cut off almost completely from the rest of the country with the ability of people to travel interstate heavily restricted
- there was overall a pretty high degree of compliance with the rules put in place
- the government of the state that shutdown for three months resisted weeks of calls to re-open the economy even when cases got down to as little as 20,10, or 5 etc. cases a day. Other countries have buckled when placed in similar situations (e.g. Canada)
Dave Rubin is infamous for being the dumbest person in the conservative realm. Calling him an idiot is still degrees higher than where he is.
Just think about that. Think of the dumbest person you can imagine who argues conservative nonsense. Rubin is significantly dumber than that.
The fact he is so dumb that even other right wing grifters now shit on him is quite the achievement.
I think the best thing that happened is him going to Spotify, he has dimished his reach by a lot compared to when he was on YouTube