Hatsune Miku & Friends Community |OT| It's always the Era of Miku

flashman92

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Feb 15, 2018
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Heh, I'm the exact opposite. I had to configure Future Tone to only use buttons instead of a mix of arrows and buttons because I was so used to the Diva games.

On the other hand, I really enjoyed playing Mirai with only the touch screen. It's weird.
Square and Circle blend in my mind in high speed situations. The shape and color are just not distinct enough from one another in my mind to be able to recall where they are in an instant, opposed to arrows or even ABXY.
 

Slam Tilt

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Jan 16, 2018
5,574
Maybe it's me, but I just can't imagine Sega keeping the games Sony exclusive for too long given how it's largely a Japanese property and the Switch is crazy ascendant in Japan.
 

mute

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Oct 25, 2017
7,269
In my head a new PD/Miku game in general depends a lot on how the vocoloid music scene is doing in general (which I am not in tune with these days). I'm not sure the desire is there, either from the dev or consumer side, on another Miku game with just the usual classic hits. I mean, I would buy it because I would buy anything, but I'm not sure the greater consumer base would, or if the game was filled with relatively unknown new tracks. It's kinda the Guitar Hero/Rockband problem.

I guess you could pull a Project Mirai and significantly change the gameplay and still include classic songs, but you will still need something fresh to generate the most interest.
 

luminous

Member
Oct 27, 2017
46
Pretty sure something new is in the works for this year since wat (aka Wataru Sasaki, the main dev behind Crypton's Vocaloids) has mentioned having meetings with Sega and Makoto Osaki regarding the Diva series a bunch of times on his twitter account during the past year... and this year marks the 10th anniversary of the Diva series.

Could be anything from just new content for FT to a brand new Diva game, no way to know until they decide to spill up what they're up to, but at least I don't think this series is quite dead yet.
 

Wowfunhappy

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Oct 27, 2017
2,982
Saw this was pinned earlier and spent the whole evening playing F2nd for the first time in ages. I saw recently that PS3 emulation has progressed far enough for the F games to be playable at 60fps now, theres a few vids on youtube of it. Looks impressive. I'd be worried about it being a bit laggy though.
Fun fact, F has actually been playable (in 60 fps) in rpcs3 for nearly a year. And by playable, I mean with only minor issues. It was one of the earlier PS3 games to work.

I'm not convinced the timing is quite perfect compared to console, but it's pretty close. Doesn't seem to require all that much CPU power either, at least relative to other games (I doubt it would work on a standard laptop).

I'm honestly a bit surprised that the engine would even support running at 60fps without the timing being thrown completely off as a result.
Fun fact, even the PSP games can be played at 60 fps! The menu animations play at double speed which is a bit odd, but when you're actually in a song everything is perfect.

In all cases an emulator patch was needed to increase the framerate, but the games clearly aren't hard-coded around 30.

Maybe it's me, but I just can't imagine Sega keeping the games Sony exclusive for too long given how it's largely a Japanese property and the Switch is crazy ascendant in Japan.
Legitimate question, do you think classic-style Project Diva games could work on a system that uses letters to denote buttons? I just feel like the shape icons are so integral to the gameplay. I don't think I'd be able to distinguish individual letters in a fast stream of notes. If you keep all the letters in circles, you don't have a variety of shapes. If you take the letters out of the circles, the shapes are too complicated.
 

mute

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Oct 25, 2017
7,269
Legitimate question, do you think classic-style Project Diva games could work on a system that uses letters to denote buttons? I just feel like the shape icons are so integral to the gameplay. I don't think I'd be able to distinguish individual letters in a fast stream of notes. If you keep all the letters in circles, you don't have a variety of shapes. If you take the letters out of the circles, the shapes are too complicated.
Personally I would think the buttons/dpad not being symmetrical would be just as/more of a detriment, based on my limited time playing Taiko on the joycons. You get used to it, but it is weird.
 

hibikase

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Oct 26, 2017
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Maybe it's me, but I just can't imagine Sega keeping the games Sony exclusive for too long given how it's largely a Japanese property and the Switch is crazy ascendant in Japan.
Project Mirai was already a thing on 3DS.

Legitimate question, do you think classic-style Project Diva games could work on a system that uses letters to denote buttons? I just feel like the shape icons are so integral to the gameplay. I don't think I'd be able to distinguish individual letters in a fast stream of notes. If you keep all the letters in circles, you don't have a variety of shapes. If you take the letters out of the circles, the shapes are too complicated.
See above.
 
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Slam Tilt

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Jan 16, 2018
5,574
Legitimate question, do you think classic-style Project Diva games could work on a system that uses letters to denote buttons? I just feel like the shape icons are so integral to the gameplay. I don't think I'd be able to distinguish individual letters in a fast stream of notes. If you keep all the letters in circles, you don't have a variety of shapes. If you take the letters out of the circles, the shapes are too complicated.
For the Switch at least, you can use circles with arrows inside or a four-circle diamond with one circle filled in. Both methods are commonly used.
 

Wowfunhappy

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Oct 27, 2017
2,982
Personally I would think the buttons/dpad not being symmetrical would be just as/more of a detriment, based on my limited time playing Taiko on the joycons. You get used to it, but it is weird.
I think you could mostly resolve this by removing the star notes. As long as your hands are always on the d-pad and face buttons, the positioning doesn't matter.

And while I enjoy the star notes, they wouldn't be a huge loss. The PSP games were fine without them.

For the Switch at least, you can use circles with arrows inside or a four-circle diamond with one circle filled in. Both methods are commonly used.
Neither of these gives you shape contrast between different notes, unless I'm misunderstanding. Either all notes are in a circle or all notes are in a diamond.

Project Mirai was already a thing on 3DS.
Yeah, and they completely changed the gameplay. The Mirai games lay out notes in a straight line. It's less chaotic, so shape contrast is less important. The standard Diva games have notes flying in from all directions.
 
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hibikase

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Yeah, and they completely changed the gameplay. I imagine the button difference may have been why.

The Mirai games lay out notes in a straight line. It's less chaotic, so shape contrast is less important. The standard Diva games have notes flying in from all directions.
I think they just wanted Mirai to be its own thing with its own visual language, and that was not necessarily because of having letters instead of symbols.
 

hibikase

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A new arcade? That sure as hell would never happen around where I live.

Man if there was a Project Diva machine near me I would spend so much money there. I have the PS4 controller but the buttons are so small.
 
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Lardonate

Member
Oct 25, 2017
275
Arcade Club in Manchester UK just got a Project Diva FT arcade cab too. Only one in the UK at the moment apparently. I’m rubbish at playing it on the arcade button layout tho!!
 

Hailinel

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Oct 27, 2017
21,349
Arcade Club in Manchester UK just got a Project Diva FT arcade cab too. Only one in the UK at the moment apparently. I’m rubbish at playing it on the arcade button layout tho!!
I've got the Project Diva controller for my PS3, and I'm rubbish with that, so I can imagine what it's like to play the arcade game! It's an action that definitely requires a lot of practice.
 
Oct 25, 2017
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Re: making Project Diva controls work on Switch. Just make everything arrows, which correspond to both the d-pad and ABXY.
 

StarCreator

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Oct 25, 2017
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Re: making Project Diva controls work on Switch. Just make everything arrows, which correspond to both the d-pad and ABXY.
If you put aside the fact Project DIVA 2nd and all later not-Arcade releases use arrows to denote double notes, sure.

Even if you removed/reworked double notes, those symbols are inextricably tied to ten years of developed muscle memory. They would be better off continuing Project mirai (or using mirai 2/DX's control scheme) than trying to shoehorn Project DIVA's controls to a different ecosystem.
 

Twonny

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Dec 12, 2018
477
If you put aside the fact Project DIVA 2nd and all later not-Arcade releases use arrows to denote double notes, sure.

Even if you removed/reworked double notes, those symbols are inextricably tied to ten years of developed muscle memory. They would be better off continuing Project mirai (or using mirai 2/DX's control scheme) than trying to shoehorn Project DIVA's controls to a different ecosystem.
I would love to see a Project Mirai game on the Switch.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,679
If you put aside the fact Project DIVA 2nd and all later not-Arcade releases use arrows to denote double notes, sure.

Even if you removed/reworked double notes, those symbols are inextricably tied to ten years of developed muscle memory. They would be better off continuing Project mirai (or using mirai 2/DX's control scheme) than trying to shoehorn Project DIVA's controls to a different ecosystem.
Make double notes double arrows <<

It’s really silly to act like Project Diva could and should never come to non-PS platforms just because they’d have to change the button graphics, come on now
 

StarCreator

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Oct 25, 2017
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Make double notes double arrows <<

It’s really silly to act like Project Diva could and should never come to non-PS platforms just because they’d have to change the button graphics, come on now
It’s like people who claim that Mario Maker wouldn’t work without two screens.
At what level do you actually play these games? Honestly curious.

I can personally state I'm completely disinterested in relearning Project DIVA with altered symbols, just like I would stop playing DDR if they changed the order of the columns. It takes a lot of practice and learned pattern recognition to play any rhythm game at high levels, and an alteration to the symbols throws all that out the window.

I am not advocating they don't try to bring back some form of Vocaloid game, but it doesn't have to be Project DIVA. (And, as I keep saying, Project mirai 2/DX's system is already Switch-ready.)
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,679
At what level do you actually play these games? Honestly curious.

I can personally state I'm completely disinterested in relearning Project DIVA with altered symbols, just like I would stop playing DDR if they changed the order of the columns. It takes a lot of practice and learned pattern recognition to play any rhythm game at high levels, and an alteration to the symbols throws all that out the window.

I am not advocating they don't try to bring back some form of Vocaloid game, but it doesn't have to be Project DIVA. (And, as I keep saying, Project mirai 2/DX's system is already Switch-ready.)
I play on expert, but I won’t act like I’m full combing everything or competing for high scores or anything. I’ve also put a good bit of time in other rhythm games. I don’t think it’s that hard to adapt to changes like this? It might be awkward at first but I think most players could adjust after playing a bit. If anything it’d also be good for the long term future of the franchise to not handcuff themselves to one platform.
 

hibikase

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At what level do you actually play these games? Honestly curious.

I can personally state I'm completely disinterested in relearning Project DIVA with altered symbols, just like I would stop playing DDR if they changed the order of the columns. It takes a lot of practice and learned pattern recognition to play any rhythm game at high levels, and an alteration to the symbols throws all that out the window.

I am not advocating they don't try to bring back some form of Vocaloid game, but it doesn't have to be Project DIVA. (And, as I keep saying, Project mirai 2/DX's system is already Switch-ready.)
You raise a good point, but I think many of us would be perfectly willing to go through that learning curve if it means playing on the Switch.
 

Rommaz

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Nov 27, 2017
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Kitwe, Zambia.
Oh god I never even considered the button layout issue LOL. The shapes have felt so natural to me that I never even thought anything else could exist. Playing with the arrows as the visuals in FT instead of the shapes always felt odd. No wonder Mirai and Diva are separate lol
 

TP~

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Oct 25, 2017
467
Could they not have individually customizable icons for every button with a large selection of letters and shapes that just happen to include shapes that resemble the ones on a dualshock?
 

Soulflarz

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Oct 25, 2017
1,468
EDIT: WAIT WRONG THREAD LMFAOOOO
im so used to the rocket league threadthingy being at the top and not miku
 
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Wowfunhappy

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Oct 27, 2017
2,982
At what level do you actually play these games? Honestly curious.

I can personally state I'm completely disinterested in relearning Project DIVA with altered symbols, just like I would stop playing DDR if they changed the order of the columns. It takes a lot of practice and learned pattern recognition to play any rhythm game at high levels, and an alteration to the symbols throws all that out the window.

I am not advocating they don't try to bring back some form of Vocaloid game, but it doesn't have to be Project DIVA. (And, as I keep saying, Project mirai 2/DX's system is already Switch-ready.)
Fwiw, I play exclusively on Extreme and consider myself pretty decent (although I doubt I'm at your level). I think the symbols are a big, legitimate problem, but if the developers found replacements that worked, I'd be perfectly willing to re-train myself.

I'm just not sure what those symbols would be. Arbitrary shapes without a clear relation to hardware buttons would be much more difficult to learn, and I really don't think letters or diamond icons would be distinct enough. Arrows might work, if they could find an alternate way to handle double notes, but I'm still not sure they would be as easily identifiable in a fast stream. Arrows work for double notes because double notes are less common.

But, I'd love to be proven wrong. I enjoy Project Mirai well enough on the 3DS, but I don't think the gameplay is nearly as good. Project Diva's flying notes are my favorite way to represent music in an a video game, and the primary draw of the series for me. They're exciting and flashy, and their movements match the music and PV's in creative ways. The note patterns feel intuitive and instinctual, but they're also just difficult enough to read that you're forced to rely on those instincts. Mirai has some of these qualities, but not enough.
 
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Wowfunhappy

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Oct 27, 2017
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Could they not have individually customizable icons for every button with a large selection of letters and shapes that just happen to include shapes that resemble the ones on a dualshock?
IIRC, the Sony symbols are trademarked, which is why they're never an option in PC games.

Edit: Sorry for the double post fail, I meant to hit edit but pressed the wrong button...
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,679
IIRC, the Sony symbols are trademarked, which is why they're never an option in PC games.

Edit: Sorry for the double post fail, I meant to hit edit but pressed the wrong button...
There are PC games that support PS buttons - I play FFXIV with a DS4 on Windows and it has an option to show PS buttons, for instance.

I think the real question is whether Nintendo cert would allow it.
 

hibikase

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Oct 26, 2017
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IIRC, the Sony symbols are trademarked, which is why they're never an option in PC games.
How does that work for Project Diva Arcade anyway? As far as I know Sony is not involved with it in any way, and yet it uses the PS shapes+colours verbatim. I've always wondered how they get away with it.
 

Wowfunhappy

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Oct 27, 2017
2,982
How does that work for Project Diva Arcade anyway? As far as I know Sony is not involved with it in any way, and yet it uses the PS symbols verbatim.
I always assumed Sony gave their blessing (possibly for a very nominal fee) given that arcade games are a pretty different market.

But maybe I'm completely wrong about the trademark thing, per detuned radios above. I will note that I did a quick search, and Wikipedia says the buttons are trademarked. And, FFXIV in particular has some level of Sony buy-in due to supporting cross-play.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,679
I always assumed Sony gave their blessing (possibly for a very nominal fee) given that arcade games are a pretty different market.

But maybe I'm completely wrong about the trademark thing, per detuned radios above. I will note that I did a quick search, and Wikipedia says the buttons are trademarked. And, FFXIV in particular has some level of Sony buy-in due to supporting cross-play.
I think Wikipedia is referring to trademark there in an informal sense, not legally.

There’s a pretty significant number of PC games with DS4 button prompts, most of which don’t have any obvious Sony connection:

https://pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/Special:Ask/-5B-5BCategory:Games-5D-5D-20-5B-5BDualShock_4_controller_support::true-5D-5D-20OR-20-5B-5BDualShock_4_controller_support::hackable-5D-5D/-3FDeveloped-20by/-3FPublished-20by/-3FRelease-20date-7C+limit=1/-3FAvailable-20on/-3FDualShock_4_controller_support/-3FDualShock-204-20light-20bar-20support/-3FDualShock-20prompts/-3FDualShock-204-20connection-20modes/format=template/limit=100/template=Feature-2FDS4row/introtemplate=Feature-2FDS4intro/outrotemplate=Feature-2Foutro
 

hibikase

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Having this thread be the community spotlight made me finally get a new avatar, whee.
 

SHarris78

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Oct 28, 2017
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Oh how I'd love a new Project Diva game. :(
Well there’s been a few Expos and Magical Mirai concerts since DivaX containing some great newer songs - for a new game with Diva-F levels of content I’d guess within the next 12 months we’ll here something if indeed a new game is happening.

In the meantime, I’ll settle for a Switch version of the 3DS Project Mirai to tide me over please Nintendo.
 

Qikz

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Oct 25, 2017
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When we moved over I forgot this community existed. Hello again everyone \o/
 

tyfon

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Nov 2, 2017
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Norway
Hi,

This thread popped up on top of ERA games :)

I am a 38 year old male with wife and children.
I have a confession to make.

I have played Project diva X to story completion and I have been playing all the optional stuff and have many gold trophies.
I have played all songs in Future tone and I have all DLC...

It's actually very fun and I like the songs :)
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,173
Hi,

This thread popped up on top of ERA games :)

I am a 38 year old male with wife and children.
I have a confession to make.

I have played Project diva X to story completion and I have been playing all the optional stuff and have many gold trophies.
I have played all songs in Future tone and I have all DLC...

It's actually very fun and I like the songs :)
Where's the confession?

People should be confessing if they HAVEN'T played a Project Diva game.
 

ChrisD

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Oct 25, 2017
2,170
My confession is that I’ve still only played about a fourth of Future Tone, despite playing F/F2nd/X over a hundred hours each
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,173
My confession is I've played over 150 hours of X, definitely more than any other PD game. I've done the "platinum" twice, though I only have one platinum.
 

hibikase

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Oct 26, 2017
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My confession is that I never bothered to get any Platinum in any of the Project Diva games despite spending at least 100 hours in each of them.
 

Rommaz

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Nov 27, 2017
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Kitwe, Zambia.
Confession time? I never managed to clear all the songs on Future Tone extreme. There Was one song I just could never do. Then my save got deleted so it kinda hurts less in a sad way.
 

Saoshyant

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Oct 25, 2017
1,331
Portugal
The only Diva game I got a platinum on was Future Tone DX. Screw those games where you have to give gifts and pats in the head to goddamn Kaito and Meiko and so on.

P.S: they should make a game with Gumi in it like Mirai. In fact, make it just Miku and Gumi.
 

Pudgybunny

Member
Oct 25, 2017
30
I had no idea there was a Miku community here on Era and this is exciting news. My boyfriend pointed it out to me. Is there an official Discord channel for you guys to talk all things Miku? I'm excited for the new Snow Miku Princess Nendo.
 

StarCreator

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Oct 25, 2017
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I had no idea there was a Miku community here on Era and this is exciting news. My boyfriend pointed it out to me. Is there an official Discord channel for you guys to talk all things Miku? I'm excited for the new Snow Miku Princess Nendo.
The closest thing is a general music games Discord that got made a bit over a year ago, but it's pretty, erm, laid back.
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Mairu

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Oct 25, 2017
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SF Bay Area
The closest thing is a general music games Discord that got made a bit over a year ago, but it's pretty, erm, laid back.
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Gotta get in on that! I haven’t played Project Diva in awhile but I love music games - spending my last night in Japan now and just ended a session at Round One playing some Ongeki, Mai mai, and Dance Rush. Going to have to get back into Project Diva since I can’t play any of these back home and I’ll need my music game fix after all this...
 

Fab

Member
Oct 28, 2017
59
Arcade Club in Manchester UK just got a Project Diva FT arcade cab too. Only one in the UK at the moment apparently. I’m rubbish at playing it on the arcade button layout tho!!
Heading there this weekend for my birthday, can't bloody wait, after all these years being able to play the real deal!