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Have recent events affected your decision to buy future Atlus titles?
- Thread starter Gold Arsene
- Start date
I think you posted in the wrong kind of forum. This one is about video games. The Stare at the Ceiling Game forum is that way.
Well, that's the thing with Boycotts - they're not meant to be forever. The purpose of them is to say "Hey, I'm not buying your shit until this problem is fixed" and then resume buying if fixing occurs. Is this not something people understand? If Atlus doesn't fix this, you keep boycotting until they do. But if they prove they've sufficiently moved past this, then you end your boycott.
Chances are Hashino will always be a piece of shit, but Atlus as a whole can still fix this problem so I'm 100% behind boycotts until they do. They can absolutely stop Hashino's garbage from permeating through their works.
So your seperating hte art from the artist, that's fine.
It's just hard to take solace in that when, 4 times now, the artist's message has been, "you shouldn't be afraid to be who you truly feel you are, as that makes you a stronger person in the end....unless you're queer, in which case you are a deviant that should be ostracized." There's a lot of room for nuance in artistic pieces, but when that's what you're constantly saying, again and again, the artistic message is still something very hateful and piercing to many people.
This isn't like Sugiyama creating a masterfully done score and then using the proceeds from said score to fund anti-lgbt+ groups and hate crime deniers. This is a director of the piece going out of his way to single out queerfolk and say "these people are, at worst, deplorable, and at best, going through a childish phase".
Here's the thing though imo: Hashino will probably always be a piece of shit on this issue, and he's too popular a director for Atlus to be willing to fire him even with shit like this going on. As such, I think the best case scenario is that Hashino just stops expressing his personal views on these issues in his games, and so I think the best way to enact change given this scenario is by both not buying shit like Full Body that pulls this shit while continuing to buy the games that don't pull this shit and engaging in an active conversation on the issue, because it's the best way to make it clear why we're not buying the stuff that's shitty and why sales of those specific titles are dropping.
I'm not picking up Full Body, but I just can't see a future where I don't pick up Persona 6 day one.
You may not care. But your actions are still political. If you buy Catherine, for instance, you are making a political statement. That you think the content isn't transphobic enough to stop you buying the game, or you don't care about transphobia enough to stop a purchasing decision. I am not judging by the way, I own Annie Hall on DVD.
Atlus has more games. This is like swearing off Square Enix as a whole because of the DQ composer.
I'm still teetering on the edge of not getting Full Body, because I'm still in it purely for multiplayer. But the main Catherine pro who basically invented the competitive scene has swore off it so I mean.
I'm still teetering on the edge of not getting Full Body, because I'm still in it purely for multiplayer. But the main Catherine pro who basically invented the competitive scene has swore off it so I mean.
Almost like games are made by people with ideologies and worldviews which are in-turn reflected by the games themselves.
But sure, let's pretend the games about sexuality, social upheaval, and identity have nothing to do with politics...
Grow up.
I'm sure as fuck not buying Catherine but I don't know about future games. Hopefully this controversy makes them change for the better because they're a talented studio who doesn't deserve to make shitty games.
The message was an answer to other message quoting other previous post in which I perfectly explained my posture on this subject:
https://www.resetera.com/threads/ha...ture-atlus-titles.100155/page-3#post-17998513
I don't see the need in starting drawing circles, repeating the same arguments.
I love video game design, and in the case of 'Catherine', I'm only interested in the design of its puzzles.
In the same way that I consider that if you're trying to learn cinema, the documentaries of Leni Riefenstahl are essential. Because while they are nazi propaganda , she was pioneering most of the film techniques used in the genre.
And to watch a film of Leni Riefenstahl doesn't make me a nazi.
In the same way as purchasing a game from Atlus, don't make me a transphobic.
And that is said by an activist that has spent a lot of his time fighting for equality, and not from a chair writing on a keyboard but on the streets, sometimes putting on risk my own safety.
Will buy Catherine Fully Body on release as well as any and all future mainline Persona games (spin-offs are case to case basis).
Watching a Roman Polanski movie may not make me a pedophile, but the fact that he's made some breathtaking work certainly wouldn't stop me from wanting to see him tried for his crimes.
Not really, no. I'll buy it when it's cheap, but that's because I wasn't that interested in buying the PS4 version.
The mainline Persona (and expansions) and Project RE Fantasy will be day one purchases, though.
The mainline Persona (and expansions) and Project RE Fantasy will be day one purchases, though.
I don't think anybody is implying that brilliant artists that have commited heinous crimes should be exempt from justice.
Yup, it's a great concept but a really lame game. IQ for the PS1 is still my favorite block puzzle game. Hell if Catherine was a skin of that it would be perfect.
As far as buying their games, yes, I still will as long as they are fun, highly doubt his views are gonna change. I still want to buy this game for the story even if I have to suffer through the gameplay.
You're not giving money to nazis if you watch those films. Nor to Picasso when you admire his work. Would you pay the KKK for their material, for example? What about alt-right comics? Because that would be practically generating a benefit and a push forward for those movements.
Watching a documentary by Leni Reifenstahl does not provide material support to a Nazi.
Purchasing Catherine does provide material support to a transphobe and bigot.
Also, nice virtue signalling with that last line. "I've put myself on the line, unlike all you keyboard warriors."
My point is that creators are not exempt from social criticism just because they are exceptional at what they do. It should not be pass, even if, in real life, it often is.
The underscore of Leni Riefenstahl should still be that they were a nazi, just how Hashino's underscore should be that he is a biggot. Not that many people seem to have a problem with that, if this thread is any indication.
I have never watched a Roman Polanski's film, I'm more a Krzysztof Kieślowski person :)
The writing was on the wall that Atlus isn't the company that they're used to be with Shin Megami Tensei IV cutting off story content to be sold later as DLC.
Or that Etrian Odyssey Untold locked content behind a story mode that no one asked for.
Or that Etrian Odyssey 2 Untold locked a class, bosses and parts of maps behind DLC.
Or Shin Megami Tensei IV Apocalypse pandering hard to the Persona audience.
Or the latest Atlus remakes features a new girl that ruins the stories and bad artstyles (Strange Journey Redux, Radiant Historia Perfect Chronology).
Or that Persona 3 and 5 Dancing has shitloads of day 1 DLC.
And now we're here with Catherine Full Body's endings (don't forget the DLC!).
Let this be known, modern Atlus is a mistake. I'm thankful for Etrian Odyssey V and Nexus however, those games are among my favorite Atlus games.
Or that Etrian Odyssey Untold locked content behind a story mode that no one asked for.
Or that Etrian Odyssey 2 Untold locked a class, bosses and parts of maps behind DLC.
Or Shin Megami Tensei IV Apocalypse pandering hard to the Persona audience.
Or the latest Atlus remakes features a new girl that ruins the stories and bad artstyles (Strange Journey Redux, Radiant Historia Perfect Chronology).
Or that Persona 3 and 5 Dancing has shitloads of day 1 DLC.
And now we're here with Catherine Full Body's endings (don't forget the DLC!).
Let this be known, modern Atlus is a mistake. I'm thankful for Etrian Odyssey V and Nexus however, those games are among my favorite Atlus games.
I won't buy anything involved with him in future, but honestly, I am surprised and saddened by results.
I haven't bought their games in years.
I genuinely have no idea why so many on this site gives them so many free passes while making this huge stink about stuff like The Last Night, Kingdom Come, etc. Seems like Japanese companies(see Dragon Quest) get more leeway to be bigots.
I genuinely have no idea why so many on this site gives them so many free passes while making this huge stink about stuff like The Last Night, Kingdom Come, etc. Seems like Japanese companies(see Dragon Quest) get more leeway to be bigots.
I feel like equating any of the other stuff you mention to the Hashino controversy going on right now is honestly a bit shitty because they're completely separate issues that have more to do with personal taste than the actual dignity and fair treatment of a group of people
I like pretty much everything about the games outside of the issues, so I'm not going to stop. I believe it's possible to enjoy something despite its problematic aspects, such as Dragon Quest or H.P. Lovecraft.
I'm also not 100% sure Hashino hasn't become a boogeyman symbolizing a larger problem, so even if I were boycotting the games, I'm not so sure just boycotting his games would make sense.
I'm also not 100% sure Hashino hasn't become a boogeyman symbolizing a larger problem, so even if I were boycotting the games, I'm not so sure just boycotting his games would make sense.
You're better off. One helped abolish the death penalty, one abducted a child.
It's weird that their bodies of work are held in the same light but...here we are.
Yeah. I really hope i never become a person that doesn't care and ignore another's suffering just so i can play some games or listen to some music by X bigot, racist or whatever.
Lol at puting these games as some sort of psychological exploration of a bigoted mind. This is just trash, and by paying for them you support the dude and his ideas, and the company that allows them.
Many people won't stop buying games based on principles, just take a look at how popular Apex is despite people hating on EA.
Polls are interesting in this regard because as far as things are considered, the people who care about this are the minority so wouldn't the outcome be evident without a poll? I mean we're aware we are a minority.
If anything, Era should be proud the number of people who aren't in the last group who just don't give a shit at all about these issues (or at least not enough to affect their purchasing habits in any way) is as high as it is here
I truly didn't think we would be a minority here at Resetera. Typing that out and re-reading it now kind of seems comical and silly....which is sad.
I did mention the Catherine Full Body endings to be fair but yeah I had no intention of coming across that way. The controversy just prompted me to say this. Maybe I should create a separate thread about Atlus being on the decline in general, away from the transphobic issues.
I'm happy to see that we coincide in at least one thing, and I think that this the real value and great purpose of art pieces :)
Every decision you make isn't political. That would assume that you know the political effect of every decision you make. Most consumers are oblivious.
Apathy is easy. You know it's bad when all someone has to do to show solidarity with a marginalized group of people is to not buy a game.
Fun is more important than supporting another human being.
Err recent events? It's not news that the Persona games have had issues. I will probably buy whatever P5R is because, not to trivialize the homophobia, but it's a really small insignificant bit in a very long game - a game that actually has a small but non-offensive depiction of a transgender (well possibly, but at least they're not the butt of jokes either way). I'll probably never re-buy the heartbreak that was Persona 4 unless they miraculously rework the worst parts of the game, the Catherine Full Body ending is pretty bullshit so I probably won't buy that. Guess you could say I'll be keeping an ear out for this stuff before I purchase an Atlus game.
I'm sure as fuck not buying Full Body less because I think that will actually accomplish anything and more because I simply have no desire to play a game with that much transphobic garbage in it. Future games? Well, I'll never entirely write off a whole company forever, but I'm definitely on a wait-and-see approach with Atlus right now.