Hawaii State Rep to Video Game Industry: Regulate Loot Boxes Before We Are Forced to Legislate

[Deleted member 888]

The Attorney General of Hawaii is weighing the legal issues potentially surrounding Electronic Arts' Star Wars Battlefront II and its use of what politicians there describe as predatory practices and the dangers of encouraging children to gamble. At least one of the two state lawmakers who raised the issue a week ago is also considering introducing a bill that could ban the sale of the game in Hawaii to minors.

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"The fear when you introduce government legislation into private enterprise is that we are going to overreach," Hawaii State Rep. Sean Quinlan tells Glixel in a phone interview. "That is my fear. Ultimately, it's best for the industry to self-police."

In Quinlan's view, a better outcome would be for the Entertainment Software Ratings Board to address the use of loot boxes and microtransactions in video games with higher ratings and warning labels.

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Quinlan said that fellow state legislator Chris Lee, who also has long played video games, also came across the issue on Reddit and contacted Quinlan to discuss what they should and could do.

"Full credit to Representative Chris Lee," he says. "It didn't register that we could make a difference."

The two discussed their plan of attack and then released a video-taped press conference a bit more than a week ago to discuss their concerns about the game and how it might impact children. In particular, the concern that the game's loot boxes were essentially a form of dressed up gambling.

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While Quinlan acknowledged today that the interactions in the game might not constitute traditional gambling, but said so with a caveat.

"I think the mechanism is so close to gambling, when we talk about psychology and the way addiction and reward works, I think whether or not it means the strict definition of gambling, it's close enough and the impact is close enough," he says.

He also addressed the reasoning behind going after this particular game now, when many games before Battlefront 2 have uses similar systems.

"This is the straw that broke the camel's back," he says. "EA and Disney are two of the largest companies not just in America, but the world and Star Wars is such a beloved property. That it is being used for evil is especially upsetting."

Quinlan and Lee passed information on about the game to Hawaii State Attorney General Doug Chin for an official opinion about the legal issues surrounding the game's use of microtransactions and loot boxes, Quinlan says. For now, the two are waiting to hear his opinion.

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Read the in-depth follow up by Crecente in full @ https://www.rollingstone.com/glixel...dress-battlefront-ii-loot-via-ratings-w512718

I did dump this in the catch all Hawaii topic, but given the size of the article I think it's fresh enough news to have a follow up topic. It's 3 days old, but I fired in a few keywords to reset search and no results (another apology if this is a dupe).

A notable mention to how they'd prefer the ESRB to self-regulate, so I guess, shots fired at them.

Plus, the sass in these statements from Quinlan

And while EA has paused the use of that mechanic in this game, Quinlan says he isn't convinced the company won't return to the practice.

"For this particular game, I think EA is between a rock and a hard place, but we as consumers have a short memory," he says. "I'm sure they will try something like this very soon. As someone who has watched EA develop over the years and consume some of my favorite studios and destroy so many franchises, I don't think this is going away. And I'm definitely going to stick to this. It's an important issue for me."

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"EA and Disney are two of the largest companies not just in America, but the world and Star Wars is such a beloved property. That it is being used for evil is especially upsetting."

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edit: Update from Chris Lee as well

 

[Ahasverus]

He mad

 

[Silky]

i truly hope this garbage industry does something right and self-regulates because god help us if the united states government dips their fingers in any form of consumable media lmfao

 

[Dreamboum]

As someone who has watched EA develop over the years and consume some of my favorite studios and destroy so many franchises, I don't think this is going away. And I'm definitely going to stick to this. It's an important issue for me."

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all the studios are coming back from the grave to give the most upsetting middle finger to EA the likes of which has never seen before

They're rising up !!!

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[Deleted member 26104]

So what "self regulation" are people hoping for here? A little sticker on a box? A symbol on a box? Would you want Battlefront 2 to be rated R because of some not-really-but-some-people-think-close-enough-to-gambling?

Getting rid of microtransactions and lootboxes isn't an option, and shouldn't even be suggested.

 

[Jon Carter]

As someone who has watched EA develop over the years and consume some of my favorite studios and destroy so many franchises, I don't think this is going away. And I'm definitely going to stick to this. It's an important issue for me

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He's definitely a member here.

 

[Jawmuncher]

ESRB REALLY needs to do a 180 on their stance from earlier in the year.
It'd be in the companies best interest for that over Full-On Govt regulation on a per-state basis.
Sounds like a nightmare.

 

[MANUELF]

Im ready for those games with lootboxes get the AO rating

I really don't see what's the problem with it when is +18 while all those M rated games are for +17, is a year that important?

 

[Funny Valentine]

"As someone who has watched EA develop over the years and consume some of my favorite studios and destroy so many franchises, I don't think this is going away. And I'm definitely going to stick to this. It's an important issue for me."

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yo get Sean Quinlan an account, the man is on point

 

[Nagito]

He's definitely a member here.

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Yea that stuck out to me also

 

[MikeBluesky]

That it is being used for evil is especially upsetting.

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That is just beautiful in the context.

 

[Vinnk]

He's doing it for Bullfrog! Good man.

 

[VariantX]

yo get Sean Quinlan an account, the man is on point

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Dude probably already has one lol

 

[Deleted member 16876]

He has all my support. Go get them!

 

[Terraforce]

So what "self regulation" are people hoping for here? A little sticker on a box? A symbol on a box? Would you want Battlefront 2 to be rated R because of some not-really-but-some-people-think-close-enough-to-gambling?

Getting rid of microtransactions and lootboxes isn't an option, and shouldn't even be suggested.

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If I'm being honest, this thing being blown up is so silly to me. Especially the people comparing it to much worse forms of gambling. ZhugeEx on Twitter put it well when he also added that many seem to be focusing on this while giving Overwatch a pass. If gambling is gambling then all lootboxes should be hurt for this.

But even disregarding that, lootboxes have never been a problem to me. I hope EA just makes it easier to get these characters and calls it a day. I think this entire situation is very overblown.

 

[Deleted member 888]

That is just beautiful in the context.

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It honestly reads like a follow up to Chris saying it's a trap. I guess this is what happens when gamers get a career in politics.

Jokes aside, even those wary of this should be happy to see such detailed responses in the article and how legislative practices really are being treated as a last resort. The ESRB has had a warning shot fired at it for now while the two of them wait to hear from whoever State Attorney General Doug Chin is.

I wouldn't be surprised at this point if he's yet another gamer.

 

[Nanashrew]

And while EA has paused the use of that mechanic in this game, Quinlan says he isn't convinced the company won't return to the practice.

"For this particular game, I think EA is between a rock and a hard place, but we as consumers have a short memory," he says. "I'm sure they will try something like this very soon. As someone who has watched EA develop over the years and consume some of my favorite studios and destroy so many franchises, I don't think this is going away. And I'm definitely going to stick to this. It's an important issue for me."

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Wow. They're really aware of what EA's been doing.

 

[TheMadTitan]

So what "self regulation" are people hoping for here? A little sticker on a box? A symbol on a box? Would you want Battlefront 2 to be rated R because of some not-really-but-some-people-think-close-enough-to-gambling?

Getting rid of microtransactions and lootboxes isn't an option, and shouldn't even be suggested.

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Sticker on the box, list of the cost of microtransactions in terms of real dollars and not the fake money they use, more balanced grinds that don't exclusively promote and prompt people to spend money in order to increase their chance of getting an item that gives them a chance of getting what they want, and the ability to directly purchase people want instead of having to roll the dice to get an opportunity to roll the dice on what you want.

And no microtransactions thatwould disrupt game balance by providing items that would make two even players play differently because one person decided to spend money on more powerful items and stat buffs.

 

[Primus]

...while the two of them wait to hear from whoever State Attorney General Doug Chin is.

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Um, he's the State Attorney General of Hawaii. Seems like that should have been pretty obvious.

Good to know we've got 2 reps who don't have their heads up their asses on tech and whatnot. Still sad neither of them are mine.

 

[Deleted member 888]

Um, he's the State Attorney General of Hawaii. Seems like that should have been pretty obvious.

Good to know we've got 2 reps who don't have their heads up their asses on tech and whatnot. Still sad neither of them are mine.

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It was more of a rhetorical statement from me to setup my "he's probably a gamer line" :P

Of course it was obvious from his title who he professionally is lol.

I'm guessing it might take a bit of time for a response. We'll probably hear a bit more this year?

 

[Funny Valentine]

when you're a gamer in the Hawaiian state government and you can hit known shithead and franchise killer company EA right in their wallet and potentially sink all their post-purchase monetization plans

 

[Abriael]

This is what you call demagogy.

 

[Deleted member 9145]

This is what you call demagogy.

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I think the word you're looking for is

"Demagorgon"

jmon with me breh

Stranger Tings Season 3 otw

 

[Primus]

It was more of a rhetorical statement from me to setup my "he's probably a gamer line" :P

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Pretty sure Chin's not a gamer, sadly. Would be a nice surprise, though. :)

 

[Kage Maru]

I really hope the ESRB takes this opportunity to actually do something about this.

 

[Mark H]

I really like the very upfront and straight reasoning.
And yeah it's probably for the best if the industry tries to self-regulate itself before government intervention.

 

[WarMacheen]

Self regulate...lol, no. When has any big publisher done what's best for consumers out of the gate. The games industry has come to rely on predatory practises to make money.

 

[Nessus]

I liked how Jim Sterling put it "wagering money against a desired outcome".

 

[Fuchsia]

Sticker on the box, list of the cost of microtransactions in terms of real dollars and not the fake money they use, more balanced grinds that don't exclusively promote and prompt people to spend money in order to increase their chance of getting an item that gives them a chance of getting what they want, and the ability to directly purchase people want instead of having to roll the dice to get an opportunity to roll the dice on what you want.

And no microtransactions thatwould disrupt game balance by providing items that would make two even players play differently because one person decided to spend money on more powerful items and stat buffs.

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I would of course prefer microtransactions and loot boxes go away for ever. But what you've outlined is basically what we're looking for here if they MUST stay.

Also to people saying they don't understand the discourse surrounding loot boxes in Battlefront 2, play the game and understand exactly how disgustingly designed that game is in order to beat you into submission via the grind until you cave and buy lootboxes to speed it up. Just because it doesn't affect you doesn't mean the rest of us don't have valid concerns about the future of this industry. If you don't want to be involved then move aside and stop giving publishers like EA more power by downplaying our concerns. This is bigger than just one game.

Loved the article, OP. Happy to see Hawaii doing such a great job with this so far.

 

[Deleted member 888]

Pretty sure Chin's not a gamer, sadly. Would be a nice surprise, though. :)

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At this rate it wouldn't surprise me if everyone in Hawaii is a gamer or something lol.

I Googled Chin for clues and at the very least he seems like a decent guy from some of his political stances unrelated to this topic.

 

[Reinhard]

Self regulate by forcing everyone with lootboxes to post odds no matter what, none of the BS Blizzard did in China. Secondly, any game with lootbox gambling should be rated M, period. Disney will not want their Star Wars games to be rated M so at least SW properties might be spared lootboxes.

 

[Yoshimitsu126]

Holy shit, EA pissed off the wrong gamer.

 

[Deleted member 888]

Self regulate by forcing everyone with lootboxes to post odds no matter what, none of the BS Blizzard did in China. Secondly, any game with lootbox gambling should be rated M, period. Disney will not want their Star Wars games to be rated M so at least SW properties might be spared lootboxes.

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If the ESRB, and PEGI, have the potential to request drop rates be known to pass certification I don't know why they haven't even tossed the industry that bone? The complete nah, we're not interested at all, from the ESRB and PEGI is precisely what could cause this to go to legislation in some country. If it's not America it could be somewhere else.

Even when the dust settles on the definition of gambling, some Government representatives are still looking into it all. As noted in the article it's not stopping Hawaii officials piling on the pressure even if the ESRB refuse to class it as gambling.

 

[jviggy43]

Na fuck that get real regulation in here. I dont trust the gaming industry to do it themselves.

 

[mutantmagnet]

If I'm being honest, this thing being blown up is so silly to me. Especially the people comparing it to much worse forms of gambling. ZhugeEx on Twitter put it well when he also added that many seem to be focusing on this while giving Overwatch a pass. If gambling is gambling then all lootboxes should be hurt for this.

But even disregarding that, lootboxes have never been a problem to me. I hope EA just makes it easier to get these characters and calls it a day. I think this entire situation is very overblown.

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It's not silly at all. This blew up because it was pay to win in a multiplayer game. Are you so oblivious to the gaming community that you never noticed everyone drew a hard line at pay 2 win for microtransactions ever since horse armor came out?


EA crossed that red line.

 

[Mark H]

Self regulate...lol, no. When has any big publisher done what's best for consumers out of the gate. The games industry has come to rely on predatory practises to make money.

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Well if self-regulation shows to be not working, then it'll be the lawmakers turn.
These guys are just giving out a warning to the industry saying if you don't give a genuine try then they'll have no other choice than to make a law to stop it, which could get real ugly for the whole industry.

 

[BoxManLocke]

"For this particular game, I think EA is between a rock and a hard place, but we as consumers have a short memory," he says. "I'm sure they will try something like this very soon. As someone who has watched EA develop over the years and consume some of my favorite studios and destroy so many franchises, I don't think this is going away. And I'm definitely going to stick to this. It's an important issue for me."

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This quote is so awesome on so many levels.

 

[NiSEi]

Yes cause industries self regulating has worked great in the past. Big companies really have the consumers best interest at heart.

Just ban all loot boxes.

 

[Deleted member 274]

Sean Quinlan for President

 

[Deleted member 29464]

I don't see how or why free to play should be exempt from this. That's a big industry, will they resist?

 

[Deleted member 18823]

Make your move, ESRB

 

[TreIII]

Sounds almost like Lieberman to the industry before the ESRB came into being.

"Regulate yourselves, or we'll do it for you."

 

[Tecnniqe]

Hawaii reppin Westwood!

 

[Alienous]

As someone who has watched EA develop over the years and consume some of my favorite studios and destroy so many franchises, I don't think this is going away. And I'm definitely going to stick to this. It's an important issue for me.

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The demise of EA's highest grossing anti-consumer practice, fuelled by the energy of the dead studios it left in its wake.

Could the end of unregulated lootboxes really be so poetic?

 

[kc44135]

This dude is awesome! :D

 

[A Syrian Communist]

I like this guy

 

[DustyVonErich]

ZhugeEx on Twitter put it well when he also added that many seem to be focusing on this while giving Overwatch a pass. If gambling is gambling then all lootboxes should be hurt for this.

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Nah. I disagree. That's like saying "stealing is stealing" while failing to recognize the difference between grand and petty theft.

I don't care for lootboxes, but acting like there aren't levels to this, or that Overwatch and BF2's implementation of them is the same is disingenuous.

And EA continues to take things to even worse levels with UFC3.

It's not all the same.

 

[MrS]

Adult Only ratings for every game with lootboxes/MTs. Do it, ESRB.

 

[2shd]

"I think the mechanism is so close to gambling, when we talk about psychology and the way addiction and reward works, I think whether or not it means the strict definition of gambling, it's close enough and the impact is close enough," he says.

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This is my take on trying to dismiss concerns based on the "it's not gambling" argument as well.

 

[Animal Liberation Ⓥ]

Sounds almost like Lieberman to the industry before the ESRB came into being.

"Regulate yourselves, or we'll do it for you."

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Pretty much. This is exactly the play they are pulling from.