I get a much, much flatter image on SDR for resi2. With HDR, the colours and highlights are amazing on my 2018 OLED. Blacks are certainly greyish, but eh...
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HDR games analysed
- Thread starter EvilBoris
- Start date
OP
OP
That sounds like the PC is outputting an HDR signal
But isn't sending HDR metadata or the Tv isn't recognising the signal.
Have you enabled HDMI UHD colour in the TV settings?
Are you getting the HDR icon next to the refresh rate and resolution in the banner at the top do the screen when you change to the HDMI source.
For me SDR is only better when I go into the Xbox display settings and disable HDR while game is still running. Then I jump back into the game and it looks better. If I fully start the game in SDR however it doesn't look too hot.
As a side note, I tried Injustice 2 in HDR today running from my PC at 4K on my Pana OLED and it's by far the most beautiful fighting game I've ever seen.
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Ok
So what do you mean by washed out?
Do you have any other HDR sources?
Interesting. Must be an Xbox thing, as I was playing on ps4
Sorry catching up to this thread. So ycc 422 should be enabled now? I read awhile ago to just leave it off. Should I uncheck it when using sdr or will it switch automatically? And color bit should still be 8 bit because that automatically switches right? Thanks for your help, I have an lg c8 if that matters
Edit - also a denon x3400h which I read has issues with banding with 422 but I dunno if that's been fixed.
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When you do that you also need to restart the application. What you are seeing is game still rendering in hdr but then Xbox outputting that as SDR signal. This usually causes severe over saturation, crushed black and various other issues so what you're seeing is a very inaccurate image even if it looks more pleasant to you.
I am wondering this too. I thought I saw Vincent mention in a video recently to uncheck this box (I had it checked until then), so I unchecked it - but then rechecked it. Heh, maybe it hasnt made much a difference.
Additionally, beat Shadow of the Tomb Raider and the game was okay at best but BOY was the HDR and scenery good. First game I've taken ALOT of screen captures of. Wish there was a way to share the HDR images!
Yeah I've seen a ton of conflicting things on it as well!
I've noticed PS4 uses 4:2:2 by default, and my Apple TV 4k says that 8-bit 4:2:2 is preferred over 10-bit 4:2:0. Howeer the Xbox makes it seem like 4:2:0 is preferred and 4:2:2 should only be enabled when necessary. So much conflicting info out there.
4:2:2 on Xbox One was bugged and has since been fixed, so you can feel free to set it to 4:2:2 now.
I am on the same boat. I think it looks amazing though.
The HDR in Everybody's Golf is good! Pleasantly surprised!
Looks like a tricky hole, that one.
OP
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Rec709 and SRGB are actually the same thing, it's weird that they look different.
Maybe your display is also controlling black levels with that too.
I would guess that if you are using REC709 that you would set your Xbox colour space to "standard" and SRGB if you set it to "PC RGB"
I would expect them to both look the same - Try and choose the PC RGB option if you can, as that will claw back a little more detail than the "standard" option
Either way, the game offers a big degree of control over black point and white point in SDR mode, so you can simply adjust the game to your taste if it's too grey or too black.
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Thanks. I'm actually playing on PC though. Monitor is a Predator X34P and I'm pretty sure all "enhancements" like dynamic contrast and whatnot are turned off. But yeah, the brightness setting is pretty awesome and makes me trust the results a little bit more than the usual.
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I'm taking a really good long look at the intro to Resident Evil 2 , I should hopefully have a video up tommorrow if I can get to the bottom of everything and am happy with my reccomendations.
I still stick by my guns that the HDR isn't broken and much of what we are seeing is just down to how they want the game to look vs how the game is meant to look.
I'm focussing on the area in which you start and the cutscenes, as this makess for easy comparisons , so I can't comment on whether it's
The higher the peak brightness, the higher it gets you to raise the "paper white" which may make this situation seem a little worse.
I've now played the intro about 20 times in a row with various different settings and I don't think it ever looks bad or is upsetting
I still stick by my guns that the HDR isn't broken and much of what we are seeing is just down to how they want the game to look vs how the game is meant to look.
I'm focussing on the area in which you start and the cutscenes, as this makess for easy comparisons , so I can't comment on whether it's
The higher the peak brightness, the higher it gets you to raise the "paper white" which may make this situation seem a little worse.
I've now played the intro about 20 times in a row with various different settings and I don't think it ever looks bad or is upsetting
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Really looking forward to your analysis of this game. I've read so many different impressions that it's hard to get a read on the implementation.
OP
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So I'll give you guys a heads up as you'll all be going into it soon and I'm sure you'd rather know the deal before you start, for minium fuss and more playing.
Basically, when the settings are totally opened up to full on the brightness screen
the dynamic range doesn't significantly vary me regardless of what you set the second screen on.
So if black levels bother you, setting it all the way down to "darker" will deliver darker blacks and you'll achieve almost exactly 1000nits as the maximum in game (unless there are things that are brighter than the light sources I'm measuring)
If you increase this value, near black parts of the image will raise and you'll push the image brighter overall.
There is probably a sweet spot that most people will find looks right to them, but I would urge you to go for the darkest setting and very gradually increase it from there.
Overall there is so much mist and rain and fog and dust, that I don't think that the game often tries to be pitch black
Basically, when the settings are totally opened up to full on the brightness screen
the dynamic range doesn't significantly vary me regardless of what you set the second screen on.
So if black levels bother you, setting it all the way down to "darker" will deliver darker blacks and you'll achieve almost exactly 1000nits as the maximum in game (unless there are things that are brighter than the light sources I'm measuring)
If you increase this value, near black parts of the image will raise and you'll push the image brighter overall.
There is probably a sweet spot that most people will find looks right to them, but I would urge you to go for the darkest setting and very gradually increase it from there.
Overall there is so much mist and rain and fog and dust, that I don't think that the game often tries to be pitch black
I'm just having a look now at the final game, you can literally see the wash out on the test picture after setting max luminance in the upper regions, that's not right, the actual luminance isn't increasing at all, acting more like standard gamma.
For OLED users then... go to the darkest setting, and calibrate up in small steps until confortable?
Any good area to test the settings?
Honestly, keep it at the lowest setting, you won't need to up it, then keep the second brightness screen in the middle, so far the greys are where they should be, and solid blacks too, Im perfectly happy with it like this.
That first HDR brightness screen is a smoke screen (No pun :0) does not act like you'd think, and will ruin the picture for many people.
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The test picture doesn't actually have enough bit depth to determine anything from, which is always a pain.
I think the demo area is just greyer
I'm only been repeatedly testing the first area and cutscenes. The first few clicks away from blue are where the biggest changes occur, beyond that it actually flattens off and has a bigger effect on other parts of the image.
Overall from what I've seen the game is often misty and dusty and smokey, so any source of light is going to show as something greyer.
The intake sequence and cutscenes don't look quite as pronounced as the demo, but that just makes me think it is deliberate.
overall the series does look consistently like this.
And even the artwork has this look
However, it's easily solveable if it becomes too prounced for you
You can see there is zero luminance change, all that happens is the colours wash out, and blacks lighten, literally losing contrast.
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The grey and white bar at the bottom actually has all the Luminance all the way upto10k,
the fire and the clock tower and the RPD sign all increase in luminance as you adjust it.
If you aren't seeing any change beyond , then it may be the presence of that 4000-10k data and some processing algoritms kicking in.
I'd be interested to see what you think if you set luminance to max, darkesness to the lowest and then inject 1000nit maxCLL in.
I'd love some tips on what's best for a 900E. I left HDR off on the demo so I'd love tips for each slider.
From the bottom to the top, it just washes out, like no increase in any bright parts, looks like I'm going mad with a gamma slider, but the second HDR slider does increase it how you'd imagine.
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I think there is going to be an element of personal taste here, taking it down to the lowest will give you less greyness if it's bothering you, however you may find the game to be uncomfortably dark at times.
I'm actually upto the area from the demo now and the sequence running upto that was distinctly too dark. I'm just looking at it again with all the way down to dark and 3-4clicks from the edge which is whay I was happy with in the demo.
So you're still recommending, generally, to set the blue/red bar three or four clicks from the left, but what about the white screen? Just follow the instructions on that screen as they're presented? I'm sorry if this is a really dumb question. Every time I feel like I understand how to set HDR values in games and what everything means, I find something that makes me realize that I don't understand any of it lol.
And if it makes any difference, I'm playing on an OLED.
EvilBoris Out of curiosity, are you using limited or full range on your display? I've found that, at least for PC, demo was operating in limited range only, completely ignoring driver setting, and forcing limited range on TV was only way to get proper contrast in HDR. Doing the same in SDR made first two test patterns in brightens calibration display correctly, when using default values.
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Yeah, I've been agonizing over this all day. But based upon endless testing, measurements, changes, more measurements and comparing it to the other Capcom games that use the same system for paper white.
Overall it tallies up with what I saw in DMCV and Resident Evil 7, which is the in game slider directs you to increase the paper white value based upon the peak lumimance.
So if you set peak HDR at 1000, it directs you to set it at 200
However if you set peak brightness at 2000, which is RE7 and DMCV's max. then it will encourage you to set it to 300.
Now this is problematic as increasing that paper white increases the near black detail (which we also saw very pronounced in RDR2 as it reccomened 300) and there is no reason why a TV that is brighter would actually require the content to be brighter.
No with Resi 2, the in game reference is actually going all the way up to 4000nits, does this now mean that it will encourage you with the instructions and red/blue stuff to increase the paper white to a level even further beyond 300nits?
either way, across the games where I could see the values easily and this new game which hides them away, I'm settling towards values lower than what the game suggests. 3 or 4 clicks from the left in RE2 should be a paperwhite of perhaps 130nits, which is within the same kind of range which DMCV looked looked right.
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IF you are using a YUV output for HDR , 4:2:2 or 4:2:0, then that is limited range, most displays shouldn't even give you the choice for YUV as the full/limited thing is only relevant to an RGB output. It sounds like you have maybe found your way to the correct answer yourself :)
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You can, but you then become really limited as to how high the resolution and framerate can go (unless you are using displayport or dropping the image down to a n 8bit colour depth which will will substantially increase the banding, even over SDR)
Okay, so the blue/white/red slider should be 3 ticks from the left, and the first slider where it tells you to make the box barely visible? Should we crank it, follow the instructions?
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Yeah white box is all fine to proceed with as described, my sweet spot is about 3-4 clicks from the left. It will vary a little bit for people depending on their first option.
I've got to the area from the demo and that is just 100% how that area is graded, it doesn't look quite as grey as that in all the other areas I've seen so far.
You can see it fade from the warmer beige colour of the police lobby to the to the bluer grey gr
I've been playing back some footage and the game does hit well within what anybody would consider black.
I didn't have enough time to configure HDR yesterday correctly for RE2 but.... is it really worth it? The HDR implementation didn't seem particularly impressive. And on my OLED, the Rec 709 mode with the correct Brightness/contrast calibration seemed way more coherent
By the way, I also saw differences between sRGB and Rec 709... which make no sense honestly. One must be Limited and the other Full RGB
By the way, I also saw differences between sRGB and Rec 709... which make no sense honestly. One must be Limited and the other Full RGB
Something isn't adding up right with the HDR calibration tools. I have the slider all the way to the right on the white box screen and I still slightly see the box. On the following screen with the white, blue and red bar, I went four clicks from the left. The end results actually looks very good. I'm just not sure I'm using the calibration tools right.
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It's weird you can still see the box, but if it's maxed out there isn't much you can do about it.
Depending on your model of TV it's quite possible that a modern display's processing may be trying to account for the 10k nit data that sits on those types of screens. It's weird you've only see it here, however it is a good example of a game doing a decent calibration screen in that it is truly just white and 0 code value black background.
rec709 may be using bt1886 gamma and sRGB 2.2 gamma. I've already used my demo, but as soon as I pickup the game I'll double check. It seems that OLED users are experiencing the most issues with raised black levels in recent 3rd party games. This could be due to OLEDs ability to show black to its lowest values, whereas the leading FALD LCDs slightly crush black in HDR - depending on the brand and the dimming algorithm used. Its well known that Panasonic and Samsung FALD LCDs crush black in HDR. LG needs to donate some OLEDs to all of these game devs :P
Thinking about it now, I have seen it in other games like Forza Horizon 3 or FM7 where the text never fully disappears in the HDR calibration tool. I typically go a notch or two down from the max when that happens as I'm not sure if my settings are supposed to be that high.
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Excited to try Anthem today and see if the excellent HDR of recent Frostbite titles is present!
I can never remember for Frostbite games, do I need to switch HDR on in Windows or will the game do it?
The hub area in Anthem looks really good, as far as I can tell! There aren't any HDR settings in the demo though!