HDR games analysed

dEvAnGeL

Member
Oct 27, 2017
997
No, dynamic tone mapping in game mode should solve all brightness issues that you hear 2017 OLED owners talking about. Also, in game mode on 8 series even without dyn tone mapping enabled, it provides a brighter picture. Vincent shows the different eotf curves in the c8 vs b7 comparison video, I believe.

The reason, at least for me, that a linker was purchased was to improve the dim tone mapping on my C7. Your B8 shouldn't have an issue and you should not need a linker.
i have a C7 and is this the first time i hear about this device, do you mind pointing me in a "noob" guide direction please, if this really makes a big difference i will definitely invest on it, thank you.
 

Karspankey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,369
No Man's Sky should be getting an updated HDR mode soon per their Steam patch notes!

HDR:

We wanted to clarify some points about the HDR implementation. HDR is a new display standard that has been featured on many new monitors and TVs in the past few years. It allows monitors to display brighter colours than were previously possible.

We have supported HDR on consoles for a while, but have been revisiting it in the last few months to take advantage of more recent techniques. The result of this work has been building an entirely new implementation that also works on PC. We want to eventually roll this out cross-platform, but we are keen to preview it and have your feedback. As such, we have integrated it into this experimental Vulkan build.
https://steamcommunity.com/app/275850/discussions/0/3570700856123427223/?ctp=33
 

Lukemia SL

Member
Jan 30, 2018
5,303
So this will be updated for consoles too? I wonder what techniques they use.
As long as the keep the option for the old one like Red Dead did in case they introduce some BS that many might not like then this’ll be great.
 
Oct 2, 2018
2
Those displays support HDR rather than doing it particularly well ( as they have very limited local dimming)
I’d imagine in games that have high average brightness (due to half the screen being sky) will probably still look good. Things that aren’t so reliant on black details.
Sea of Thieves, Forza H4, Horizon ZD and even assassin’s creed will probably look good still.
Just make sure you have your brightness set correctly on your display, as sometimes out of the box they can raise blacks a little more than purely the backlight causing an issue
I have a similar issue. I have a Samsung NU8000, according to RTings this set has features closer to the Q6, despite lacking the Quantum Dots. I know i cant expect bleeding edge HDR, but with its 800 nits peak one could expect something like decent HDR. The thing is, in ps4 Spiderman i see a noticeable upgrade in lighting (for me it looks more realistic on day time), but in Uncharted 4 and some areas of Infamous SS it looks washed out and, specially in Uncharted, 4 some levels i feel it looks way better on SDR, specially the vegetation, with deep greens that almost pop up from screen. Is almost like you see what they promise ya with HDR, but actually turning it off. In fact, i dont know if that happens due the migration to Pro and a 4k TV, because i originally completed U4 two years ago on a FAT PS4 and a full HD TV, and then played it again until now for testing the Pro and TV purposes. Maybe i see the big upgrade on SDR just due to the Wide Color Gamut, i dont know. Anyway, back to HDR, with Horizon i dont see a big change between SDR and HDR, and on RE 2,RE 7 and GoW i see some changes, but its not big deal. My point is, you guys talk about setting the brightness, is the brightness of the games? the TV? Both? What can i do to get the best HDR possible from this mid class TV? Please help!
 

Dmax3901

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,696
Has anyone checked out the HDR in A Plague Tale: Innocence? Looks a bit iffy to me but wanted someone with a trained eye's thoughts.
 

Edgar

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,183
Does local dimming affect HDR quality much? recommended was medium to high , but for whatever reason i was getting eye strain or something, i set it to low and its fine ?
 

Karspankey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,369
Does local dimming affect HDR quality much? recommended was medium to high , but for whatever reason i was getting eye strain or something, i set it to low and its fine ?
I’ve had a Sony x800d with no local dimming and I now have a TCL R617 with it. Local dimming has been so great that it put me off upgrading to even OLED for the time being since the black levels in HDR can be jaw dropping in the right conditions. I can’t even look at the Sony sets HDR anymore it is such a downgrade!

Try and keep it on!
 

ItsTonyB

Member
Oct 27, 2017
787
England
I have a similar issue. I have a Samsung NU8000, according to RTings this set has features closer to the Q6, despite lacking the Quantum Dots. I know i cant expect bleeding edge HDR, but with its 800 nits peak one could expect something like decent HDR. The thing is, in ps4 Spiderman i see a noticeable upgrade in lighting (for me it looks more realistic on day time), but in Uncharted 4 and some areas of Infamous SS it looks washed out and, specially in Uncharted, 4 some levels i feel it looks way better on SDR, specially the vegetation, with deep greens that almost pop up from screen. Is almost like you see what they promise ya with HDR, but actually turning it off. In fact, i dont know if that happens due the migration to Pro and a 4k TV, because i originally completed U4 two years ago on a FAT PS4 and a full HD TV, and then played it again until now for testing the Pro and TV purposes. Maybe i see the big upgrade on SDR just due to the Wide Color Gamut, i dont know. Anyway, back to HDR, with Horizon i dont see a big change between SDR and HDR, and on RE 2,RE 7 and GoW i see some changes, but its not big deal. My point is, you guys talk about setting the brightness, is the brightness of the games? the TV? Both? What can i do to get the best HDR possible from this mid class TV? Please help!
On uncharted 4 hdr is used to give a more natural look so things are less saturated.

You can increase your saturation if you want the pop which is not what hdr is.

I think with your criticisms you must have your sdr image really bright and saturated which will make hdr seem underwhelming.
 
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EvilBoris

EvilBoris

Member
Oct 29, 2017
5,173
Has anyone checked out the HDR in A Plague Tale: Innocence? Looks a bit iffy to me but wanted someone with a trained eye's thoughts.
Overall it’s ok, it’s a little overexposed on the default settings with some white clipping, dropping it back with this will help a little.
And other times it looks a little grey. Most of the time that’s just some volumetric fog or alpha effects

Areas are graded very differently, so there are areas that are noticeably darker than others, particularly later on
 
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EvilBoris

EvilBoris

Member
Oct 29, 2017
5,173

Edgar

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,183
I’ve had a Sony x800d with no local dimming and I now have a TCL R617 with it. Local dimming has been so great that it put me off upgrading to even OLED for the time being since the black levels in HDR can be jaw dropping in the right conditions. I can’t even look at the Sony sets HDR anymore it is such a downgrade!

Try and keep it on!
It depends on the model, often it’s not just the “dimming” that is being controlled but also the brightness it can achieve
Interesting, I have sony x900e . And I feel like local dimming sometimes a bit too aggressive on high and medium. Also is TLC R617 considered higher tier than sony x900 series?Afaik they are not available in UK
 

SirMossyBloke

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,174

Dmax3901

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,696
Overall it’s ok, it’s a little overexposed on the default settings with some white clipping, dropping it back with this will help a little.
And other times it looks a little grey. Most of the time that’s just some volumetric fog or alpha effects

Areas are graded very differently, so there are areas that are noticeably darker than others, particularly later on
Thanks for this. Would you say overall it's worth keeping on or is it best to just turn it off and forget about it?
 

PowerK

Member
Oct 31, 2017
37
What's the latest consensus on 'Allow YCC422' on XBOX ONE X ?

As I'm aware this feature has been hit or miss over the last couple of Microsoft System Software. Given the XBOX One received another system update last week, any changes or fixes regarding YCC422 ?
 

Karspankey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,369
Interesting, I have sony x900e . And I feel like local dimming sometimes a bit too aggressive on high and medium. Also is TLC R617 considered higher tier than sony x900 series?Afaik they are not available in UK
Our TVs are around the same! RTINGS mention that they found the local dimming on yours to be too aggressive on high so you should def turn it down if you feel the need to!
 

sora bora

Member
Oct 27, 2017
189

Robspassion

Member
Jan 10, 2019
28
Has anyone checked out the HDR in A Plague Tale: Innocence? Looks a bit iffy to me but wanted someone with a trained eye's thoughts.
I tried it out on a Sony KD-75ZD9 and found the HDR Implementation really good. Not Horizon: Zero Dawn level but there are several areas with deep blacks which also retain enough detail. I also found many punchy highlights. It´s not the best compared to some highlights but overall great for such a "small" game.
 

burgerdog

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,024
I tried it out on a Sony KD-75ZD9 and found the HDR Implementation really good. Not Horizon: Zero Dawn level but there are several areas with deep blacks which also retain enough detail. I also found many punchy highlights. It´s not the best compared to some highlights but overall great for such a "small" game.
It’s interesting how a lot of people think Horizon has a good hdr implementation when EvilBoris has said that they didn’t get it quite right.
 
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EvilBoris

EvilBoris

Member
Oct 29, 2017
5,173
It’s interesting how a lot of people think Horizon has a good hdr implementation when EvilBoris has said that they didn’t get it quite right.
I can’t remember saying much about it tbh, It’s a bit overexposed due to it having no upper cap, but otherwise it’s very good. I might of had a gripe with it the brightness adjustment, but that’s all I can think of really .
 
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EvilBoris

EvilBoris

Member
Oct 29, 2017
5,173
Standard / 8-bit / 4:2:2 is how I read it.
That’s how I set mine.
That should give you 4:2:2 for HDR and 8bit RGB for SDR.

Interestingly I now actually set my Xbox at 120hz 1440p and this only seems to engage on a few non-HDR X enhanced games.
I’m playing a lot of R6 siege, which benefits, but I will still get a full 4K output automatically in other games
 

SimpleCRIPPLE

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,619
That’s how I set mine.
That should give you 4:2:2 for HDR and 8bit RGB for SDR.

Interestingly I now actually set my Xbox at 120hz 1440p and this only seems to engage on a few non-HDR X enhanced games.
I’m playing a lot of R6 siege, which benefits, but I will still get a full 4K output automatically in other games
I thought about doing 120hz/1440p, but when I enable Freesync/VRR (I've got a Samsung Q9FN), the panel still refreshes at 60hz. In order to get 120hz, I have to disable Freesync/VRR which seems counter productive.
 

Static_Void

Member
Oct 30, 2018
1,494
north of the Dreamlands
I had the chance to try the new HDR implementation of RDR2 on my Sony X930E. Here are my settings if it can be useful for anybody else with a Sony LCD TV that behave roughly in the same way (X930E, Z9D, X900F, etc.)

I began calibrating by setting the Peak Brightness value first, and only then went to tweaking Paper White. I had to set the Peak Brightness value to 1400, which roughly corresponds to the nits specification of the X930E. More than that and it began losing details in the highlights. It means that for Peak Brightness, you should put in the nits value corresponding to the specifications of your own LCD.

For Paper White, I played with it a bit and settled for something between 140 and 150 (still tweaking to find the exact value). Higher than that and it began to quickly eat details in the highlights. To find the right value, I went to a very bright scene with lots of highlights (like staring outside after entering a dark building, or staring at the sun on a cloudy day), and tweaked the value until it was as high as I could without removing details in the highlights and raising the blacks too much. For me it was in the 140 - 150 range. Again, Peak Brightness should be set properly first before modifying the Paper White value.

I'm very pleased with the picture quality using these settings. It produces very bright highlights, and I don't find the blacks to be raised that much. I think it gives a very beautiful picture. RDR2's HDR does desaturate the colors though, and there's unfortunately nothing that can be done about it. But I think I might choose to live with this for the impressive highlights that it gives.

Edit: oh, and don't bother with the reference images in the HDR configuration menu. For me they were inaccurate and useless. It's better to calibrate in game using a very bright scene with lots of highlights.
 
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SimpleCRIPPLE

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,619
Ok, so I changed from 10-bit/Standard/4:2:2 to 8-bit/Standard/4:2:2, and immediately noticed color banding in the sky while playing Rage 2. I've been playing the game a lot lately and the difference was immediately noticeable. I flipped back and forth between 8-bit and 10-bit a couple times, and I can immediately see the different in the sky. No change between 10-bit and 12-bit that I can see, but 8-bit produces clear banding in what should be a smooth sky gradient.

Not sure why 8-bit / Standard isn't the right setup for a Samsung Q9FN, but 10-bit was clearly better than 8-bit for this panel.
 

burgerdog

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,024
I can’t remember saying much about it tbh, It’s a bit overexposed due to it having no upper cap, but otherwise it’s very good. I might of had a gripe with it the brightness adjustment, but that’s all I can think of really .
Ah, that was just my take away from this post:

I don’t think they ever got it quite right. I think the best I could get it was with brightness on about 35
 
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EvilBoris

EvilBoris

Member
Oct 29, 2017
5,173
Ok, so I changed from 10-bit/Standard/4:2:2 to 8-bit/Standard/4:2:2, and immediately noticed color banding in the sky while playing Rage 2. I've been playing the game a lot lately and the difference was immediately noticeable. I flipped back and forth between 8-bit and 10-bit a couple times, and I can immediately see the different in the sky. No change between 10-bit and 12-bit that I can see, but 8-bit produces clear banding in what should be a smooth sky gradient.

Not sure why 8-bit / Standard isn't the right setup for a Samsung Q9FN, but 10-bit was clearly better than 8-bit for this panel.
There are all kinds of other implications for why you might get banding. Xbox is setup to output 2.2 gamma, but the Samsung panel uses BT1886 gamma, which is closer to 2.4, this in itself will make banding. Not sure why that might be different between 10bit and 8bit modes.


Edit: my Q9FN tracks gamma 2.2 in game mode, even though it is saying bt1886 .
This is on the 0 setting in the TV.

It’s doesn't track different beyond some rounding errors, whether in 8bitRGB or 10bit422
 
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Hitcher

Member
Dec 23, 2018
36
I know this is a bit off topic but does anyone know the best audio settings for Xbox if you have a Dolby Atmos setup? I've found I have to set it to Atmos output to play Netflix Atmos stuff but what is the Xbox doing when I play DTS or DD stuff because my amp still says it's receiving an Atmos signal.
I don't know why the Xbox can't just output whatever signal a game/video uses like other devices.
 

SimpleCRIPPLE

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,619
I know this is a bit off topic but does anyone know the best audio settings for Xbox if you have a Dolby Atmos setup? I've found I have to set it to Atmos output to play Netflix Atmos stuff but what is the Xbox doing when I play DTS or DD stuff because my amp still says it's receiving an Atmos signal.
I don't know why the Xbox can't just output whatever signal a game/video uses like other devices.
The big spring update is going to include Atmos upmixing, so soon you'll be able to just leave it set to Atmos and get a good experience regardless of what the original source is. In the meantime, I usually leave it set to PCM, so my receiver can just upmix using DTS Neural X or Dolby Surround.
 

III-V

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,892
Ok, so I changed from 10-bit/Standard/4:2:2 to 8-bit/Standard/4:2:2, and immediately noticed color banding in the sky while playing Rage 2. I've been playing the game a lot lately and the difference was immediately noticeable. I flipped back and forth between 8-bit and 10-bit a couple times, and I can immediately see the different in the sky. No change between 10-bit and 12-bit that I can see, but 8-bit produces clear banding in what should be a smooth sky gradient.

Not sure why 8-bit / Standard isn't the right setup for a Samsung Q9FN, but 10-bit was clearly better than 8-bit for this panel.
Sounds like there is some dithering enabled at 10 bit and above that is just not available for 8 bit.
 

Koklusz

Member
Oct 27, 2017
110
Ok, so I changed from 10-bit/Standard/4:2:2 to 8-bit/Standard/4:2:2, and immediately noticed color banding in the sky while playing Rage 2. I've been playing the game a lot lately and the difference was immediately noticeable. I flipped back and forth between 8-bit and 10-bit a couple times, and I can immediately see the different in the sky. No change between 10-bit and 12-bit that I can see, but 8-bit produces clear banding in what should be a smooth sky gradient.

Not sure why 8-bit / Standard isn't the right setup for a Samsung Q9FN, but 10-bit was clearly better than 8-bit for this panel.
At this point I'm not sure that if Samsung TV's can even display RGB signal properly, they internally run in YCbCr (422?), so the banding you see might be from TV converting RGB to YCbCr, and not bit depth.
Apparently LG TV's suffer from similar issue, the infamous banding in PC mode can be fixed by sending YCbCr 444 instead of RGB.


Source
 

Kyle Cross

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,713
At this point I'm not sure that if Samsung TV's can even display RGB signal properly, they internally run in YCbCr (422?), so the banding you see might be from TV converting RGB to YCbCr, and not bit depth.
Apparently LG TV's suffer from similar issue, the infamous banding in PC mode can be fixed by sending YCbCr 444 instead of RGB.


Source
If the banding in PC mode is due to that then why is YUV422 horribly banded on LG?
 
Oct 2, 2018
2
On uncharted 4 hdr is used to give a more natural look so things are less saturated.

You can increase your saturation if you want the pop which is not what hdr is.

I think with your criticisms you must have your sdr image really bright and saturated which will make hdr seem underwhelming.
My settings were the same recommended at https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/samsung/nu8000/settings but i changed brightness to -4 (it was on 0), and it reduced the washed out, still some of it on very bright scenes on Uncharted 4 but i guess its the price the TV not reaching 1000 nits), but overall i now can see a difference for good on Uncharted 4 with HDR. Color format on my Pro is set to YUV420 .I played Last of Us, which i completed originally on PS3 in 2014, and played Left Behind for the last time in 2016 on full HD TV and PS4 FAT....And now i could compare and with this game HDR is a MUST.... looks like a remaster of the remaster: I tried without HDR to compare, and colors and specially contrast between light and dark zones looks flatter, I feel this game makes a better use of HDR than Uncharted 4.
 

ItsTonyB

Member
Oct 27, 2017
787
England
My settings were the same recommended at https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/samsung/nu8000/settings but i changed brightness to -4 (it was on 0), and it reduced the washed out, still some of it on very bright scenes on Uncharted 4 but i guess its the price the TV not reaching 1000 nits), but overall i now can see a difference for good on Uncharted 4 with HDR. Color format on my Pro is set to YUV420 .I played Last of Us, which i completed originally on PS3 in 2014, and played Left Behind for the last time in 2016 on full HD TV and PS4 FAT....And now i could compare and with this game HDR is a MUST.... looks like a remaster of the remaster: I tried without HDR to compare, and colors and specially contrast between light and dark zones looks flatter, I feel this game makes a better use of HDR than Uncharted 4.
On uncharted 4 be sure to play with the in hand brightness slider. Ignore the text. I find it best to have it lower than suggested on my a1.

The slider is set up for sdr so the guidelines don't match up too well.

HDR on tlou is good though.
 

Koklusz

Member
Oct 27, 2017
110
If the banding in PC mode is due to that then why is YUV422 horribly banded on LG?
The only thing I can think of is that perhaps PC mode can't display anything other than YCbCr 444 correctly. I don't own LG display, and the example I posted isn't mine, I put it there because I figured out it could be useful to someone here. Since there's no reason why YCbCr would look better than RGB (All modern panels I can think of are using RGB sub-pixel matrix after all, so it's reasonable to think that those TV's would be operating internally in RGB), so there's definitely something funky going on with signal processing on LG and Samsung displays.