• An old favorite feature returns: Q&ERA is back! This time we'll be collecting questions for Remedy Entertainment, makers of Max Payne, Alan Wake, Quantum Break, and Control. Members can submit questions for the next 2 days, 2 hours, 57 minutes, 55 seconds. Submissions will close on Dec 12, 2019 at 12:00 AM.

HDR games analysed

OP
OP
EvilBoris

EvilBoris

HDTVtest
Verified
Oct 29, 2017
6,986
The Division 2 has been updated, at the start it also says they have updated the brightness values and they tell you to check if they are still right for you. I look at the left image and barely see it, so should be good. Yet the night is way too bright now, fuck.
i found the night too bright, it’s why i preferred the neutral lighting option
 

Genetrik

Member
Oct 27, 2017
906
Any chance that there is another active Sony Z9D / ZD9 owner here? I would love to exchange opinions on the HDR settings.
 

nDesh

The Three Eyed Raven
Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,059
Hey EvilBoris, do you recommend to change Modern Warfare HDR Brightness in a OLED? Or just let it be at 1000?
 
OP
OP
EvilBoris

EvilBoris

HDTVtest
Verified
Oct 29, 2017
6,986
Hey EvilBoris, do you recommend to change Modern Warfare HDR Brightness in a OLED? Or just let it be at 1000?
It’s going to depend on what model display, best thing to do is use the in game setup to ensure the picture is as bright as the display will allow.

Common values are going to be 0.70 and 0.90 for the white point.

you can set the black as low as it will allow
 

nDesh

The Three Eyed Raven
Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,059
It’s going to depend on what model display, best thing to do is use the in game setup to ensure the picture is as bright as the display will allow.

Common values are going to be 0.70 and 0.90 for the white point.

you can set the black as low as it will allow
A B8, I did the HDR calibration, and then noticed the HDR Brightness option in 1000. I ask because I remember you recommending to always put it in 4000 for OLEDs.
 
OP
OP
EvilBoris

EvilBoris

HDTVtest
Verified
Oct 29, 2017
6,986
A B8, I did the HDR calibration, and then noticed the HDR Brightness option in 1000. I ask because I remember you recommending to always put it in 4000 for OLEDs.
4000 was a common value for many LG sets (the most common brand of OLed) , but this varies a bit depending on what settings you have enabled, which picture mode you are in , contrast value etc.

0.9 is equivalent to 4000, so if the game’s setup settles around that for you, then that is the case for you (Sony usually uses 1000 - 0.7)
 

Tarkus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
357
US
4000 was a common value for many LG sets (the most common brand of OLed) , but this varies a bit depending on what settings you have enabled, which picture mode you are in , contrast value etc.

0.9 is equivalent to 4000, so if the game’s setup settles around that for you, then that is the case for you (Sony usually uses 1000 - 0.7)
So my C9 should be set at 4000 in MW?
 

marecki

Member
Aug 2, 2018
41
So my C9 should be set at 4000 in MW?
I’m on C9 and have the in game hdr values set to 0.02 and 0.73. Also make sure you have dynamic tone mapping set to HGIG on the C9, this helps to remove display’s tone mapping and lets the game do that with accordance to the in game calibration.
 

Waikipedia

Member
Oct 26, 2017
86
My projector has frame by frame dynamic tone mapping ala madvr. How does it impact the manual hdr setting? Should I just set everything to 1000/more ?
 
OP
OP
EvilBoris

EvilBoris

HDTVtest
Verified
Oct 29, 2017
6,986
My projector has frame by frame dynamic tone mapping ala madvr. How does it impact the manual hdr setting? Should I just set everything to 1000/more ?
For a projector? I’d set it to 400nits or just disable HDR altogether.
HDR Support for Projectors (and budget TVs I will add) is simply so they can playback 4K blu rays.

With HDR enabled, if you have a projector that covers more than just rec709 then there is a reason to leave it enabled as Some games will go outside of that (COD being one of the best examples)
 

grendelrt

Member
Oct 25, 2017
611
For a projector? I’d set it to 400nits or just disable HDR altogether.
HDR Support for Projectors (and budget TVs I will add) is simply so they can playback 4K blu rays.

With HDR enabled, if you have a projector that covers more than just rec709 then there is a reason to leave it enabled as Some games will go outside of that (COD being one of the best examples)
This isn't really true anymore especially in a light controlled theater room (similar to Dolby Cinema using 106nits and dynamic tonemapping). I am assuming he has a new JVC RS\NX series with the frame by frame mapping (similar to how Madvr and a Lumagen processor do tone mapping). You can get a really nice HDR picture out these projectors, I have been waiting for Vincent to get his hands on one since he liked the HDR on the last gen JVC projectors and these are vastly superior and do cover 100% of DCI-P3 color. Personally I would leave the game at the default nits setting and let the JVC do the frame adapt tone mapping. I have a RS2000 and that is what I am currently doing but I haven't played much HDR games lately and spent a lot of time with it, mostly movies. I am in a fully light controlled room though with velvet, I get 150 nits of brightness.
 

EeK9X

Member
Jan 31, 2019
484
EvilBoris, did you get your C9 yet? :)

Also, are you familiar with the DisplayHDR Test app, by VESA? I just found out about it and would like to hear your opinion on it, especially considering that, as you pointed out before, the Lagom tests are of no use in HDR.

That app has a banding test, from what I've seen, among other interesting test patterns (haven't messed with it much, yet).
 
OP
OP
EvilBoris

EvilBoris

HDTVtest
Verified
Oct 29, 2017
6,986
This isn't really true anymore especially in a light controlled theater room (similar to Dolby Cinema using 106nits and dynamic tonemapping). I am assuming he has a new JVC RS\NX series with the frame by frame mapping (similar to how Madvr and a Lumagen processor do tone mapping). You can get a really nice HDR picture out these projectors, I have been waiting for Vincent to get his hands on one since he liked the HDR on the last gen JVC projectors and these are vastly superior and do cover 100% of DCI-P3 color. Personally I would leave the game at the default nits setting and let the JVC do the frame adapt tone mapping. I have a RS2000 and that is what I am currently doing but I haven't played much HDR games lately and spent a lot of time with it, mostly movies. I am in a fully light controlled room though with velvet, I get 150 nits of brightness.
If you can do 100% DCI-P3, then definately leave it on. Personally I would choose to output the source at 400nits.
You'll get a really nice SDR image out of an HDR source.

No amount of image processing can increasse the dynamic range of a device which has inherant physical limitations.
 

Waikipedia

Member
Oct 26, 2017
86
If you can do 100% DCI-P3, then definately leave it on. Personally I would choose to output the source at 400nits.
You'll get a really nice SDR image out of an HDR source.

No amount of image processing can increasse the dynamic range of a device which has inherant physical limitations.
Thanks for the reply. Grendelrt is right, I have the jvc n7. The jvc PJs can reach 100% p3 easily.

If I were to set it at 400 nits, my worry is that I'm compressing the dynamic range too much. So I was actually thinking of maybe doing the opposite and set it to a higher nits? Maybe 2000 nits even and have the dynamic tone mapping do its thing to make sure that it doesn't look too dark.
 

grendelrt

Member
Oct 25, 2017
611
Thanks for the reply. Grendelrt is right, I have the jvc n7. The jvc PJs can reach 100% p3 easily.

If I were to set it at 400 nits, my worry is that I'm compressing the dynamic range too much. So I was actually thinking of maybe doing the opposite and set it to a higher nits? Maybe 2000 nits even and have the dynamic tone mapping do its thing to make sure that it doesn't look too dark.
If you have a game you can pause and adjust I would find a scene with some nice range and adjust while flipping back and forth. I know Kris Deering said not to use something like the Panasonic optimizer to map down to 500ish nits before applying dynamic tone mapping because of what you fear, he said just let the JVC do its thing.
 
Last edited:

grendelrt

Member
Oct 25, 2017
611
If you can do 100% DCI-P3, then definately leave it on. Personally I would choose to output the source at 400nits.
You'll get a really nice SDR image out of an HDR source.

No amount of image processing can increasse the dynamic range of a device which has inherant physical limitations.
Very true, but you can't compare a tv setup to a projector setup especially in the high end case in a light controlled theater room. Standard calibration for SDR in a theater room is around 50 nits peak because if high bright it is. When you are pushing 100 to 150 nits in a fully dark room that is a lot of room over SDR to map the dynamic range , 150 nits in a fully dark room is extremely bright as well. I didn't have much faith in it myself but after reading some industries professionals testify to it like Vincent, Kris, Madshi, I gave it a shot and it is a huge difference in picture quality. I have friends with HDR sets that go holy shit at the HDR picture on my projector haha.
 

Tarkus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
357
US
I’m on C9 and have the in game hdr values set to 0.02 and 0.73. Also make sure you have dynamic tone mapping set to HGIG on the C9, this helps to remove display’s tone mapping and lets the game do that with accordance to the in game calibration.
Where is that hgig setting? I looked yesterday and could not find it for the life of me. I'm fairly certain I'm on the latest OS as my TV updated last week.
 

FuturaBold

Member
Oct 27, 2017
711
EvilBoris can you take a look at the 2 new BFV maps? I think it's DICE's best use of HDR in a BF game. All the effects (fire, sparks, lightning and explosions) look great with HDR.
 

marecki

Member
Aug 2, 2018
41
Where is that hgig setting? I looked yesterday and could not find it for the life of me. I'm fairly certain I'm on the latest OS as my TV updated last week.
It’s in picture mode settings, go to expert controls and the on the dynamic tone mapping you should have 3 options: on, off or HGIG ( I’m on software 04.70.05). Of course for dynamic tone mapping option to appear you need to be accessing options while displaying HDR content. Hope this helps!
 

Tarkus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
357
US
It’s in picture mode settings, go to expert controls and the on the dynamic tone mapping you should have 3 options: on, off or HGIG ( I’m on software 04.70.05). Of course for dynamic tone mapping option to appear you need to be accessing options while displaying HDR content. Hope this helps!
Ahhh, I feel like an idiot now. It was the hdr source as to why I didn't see it
 
Jun 4, 2019
2,464
After having played tons of hours of Witcher 3 in HDR I find it a mixed bag. Things like torches and such really stand out but I can't live with this black crush, especially bad in Novigrad. And I have it while Gamma ingame is set to the max. I use the exact same TV settings for SDR, and the correct Gamma setting ingame(just so that I barely see the logo) and no black crush in Novigrad at all.
 

SimpleCRIPPLE

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,246
What are people using for Death Stranding? Pretty disappointed in the calibration tool. I'm on a Q9FN and I bumped it up to like 58 for DHR brightness, but its hard to tell if its clipping.
 

maenckman

Member
Dec 3, 2018
99
Germany
Has anybody tried HDR in RDR2‘s PC version? What settings are you using? I put Peak brightness at 1000 and Paper white at 200, HDR style ‚game‘. It looks fine but not exactly overwhelming, I guess.
 

Samaritan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,703
Idaho
Has anybody tried HDR in RDR2‘s PC version? What settings are you using? I put Peak brightness at 1000 and Paper white at 200, HDR style ‚game‘. It looks fine but not exactly overwhelming, I guess.
Just got an HDR monitor and RDR2 was one of the first games I loaded up on it and it looks absolutely phenomenal. I set my peak brightness to 1300, as my monitor's peak output is just under that (~1250), with paper white at 150 (though I'm still tweaking that). If you only looked at the opening bits of the game without running the in-game benchmark, then I can see why you might think it looked unimpressive. But run that benchmark if you haven't, the scene in Saint Denis looks absolutely breathtaking.

I hope that was the right way to go about setting my in-game peak brightness, slightly above what my monitor is capable of. I'm not sure how and even if monitors tone-map like TVs do, now that I think about it, so this is all uncharted territory for me.
 
Last edited:

Rbk_3

Member
Oct 27, 2017
445
4000 was a common value for many LG sets (the most common brand of OLed) , but this varies a bit depending on what settings you have enabled, which picture mode you are in , contrast value etc.

0.9 is equivalent to 4000, so if the game’s setup settles around that for you, then that is the case for you (Sony usually uses 1000 - 0.7)
On PC, HDR seems to be jacked. I have to turn my brightness down to 46 to get black levels with in windows to what they should be. However, I don't know if this carries over to games. With TV brightness at 46, I adjusted the little images in Modern Warfare as directed, so I can hardly see the image in the middle box. Does this mean I have things set correctly?
 

Zelas

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,486
Has anybody tried HDR in RDR2‘s PC version? What settings are you using? I put Peak brightness at 1000 and Paper white at 200, HDR style ‚game‘. It looks fine but not exactly overwhelming, I guess.
Have they changed around the HDR implementation for that game because the console versions had terrible HDR? The footage I’ve seen on PC had the same washed out look in daytime, abnormally bright at night look.
 

Samaritan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,703
Idaho
Have they changed around the HDR implementation for that game because the console versions had terrible HDR? The footage I’ve seen on PC had the same washed out look in daytime, abnormally bright at night look.
The console version was eventually patched with a true HDR implementation that was mostly great, albeit still a bit washed-out compared to SDR. It appears the PC version is using the same implementation, so definitely good but not perfect.

 

Samaritan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,703
Idaho
EvilBoris I'd really like to get your insight on best practices for setting up PC games in HDR on an HDR monitor. Just upgraded to an ASUS PG35V which has a peak brightness of around 1,250. To the best of my understanding, since monitors like this don't do any tone-mapping of their own, it's best to just crank in-game peak brightness to the peak capabilities of the display, in this case 1,200 or 1,300. Is that correct?

For reference, some of the games I've been testing with are Call of Duty: Modern Warfare, Destiny 2, Forza Horizon 4, and Red Dead Redemption 2.
 
Last edited:

maenckman

Member
Dec 3, 2018
99
Germany
If you only looked at the opening bits of the game without running the in-game benchmark, then I can see why you might think it looked unimpressive. But run that benchmark if you haven't, the scene in Saint Denis looks absolutely breathtaking.
You are right about the benchmark scene. It looks really good. The snowy starting area is not a good place to judge HDR, I guess.
 

zephiross

Member
Mar 27, 2018
67
Maybe some of you willl be able to help me with a Dolby Vision issue...

I'm playing NFS Heat right now, and I have my PC (rtx 2080 Super) hooked up to my LG C7, but unfortunatly I can't play on it because HDR seems messed up. When I launch the game, the Dolby Vision icon pops up in the corner of the screen, and from there I get nothing but a black screen. Even Alt+F4ing the game doesn't bring back an image, it's stuck on a black screen and I have to reboot the PC to get an image back (or switch off and on HDMI ultra deep color in the TV settings). Sometimes I get an image but everything is bright pink/purple with atrocious color banding.

Do you guys know anything about this issue ? I believe similar things occured with Anthem and other DV games.
 

nDesh

The Three Eyed Raven
Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,059
Weird, it looks amazing in HDR in my B8 and I left all the default settings.
 

CRIMSON-XIII

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,604
Chicago, IL
Weird, it looks amazing in HDR in my B8 and I left all the default settings.
Maybe I am just thinking about it wrong? the green and brown on the ground is just not as vibrant as it is with the HDR off. However maybe with the rain and clouds , that is the intent? . movies in HDR usually look amazing and Horizon, GoW and Spider Man did at the default style. I followed the PS4 hdr instructions as well as the death stranding ones. I just turned liminosity up a bit.

But it kinda reminds me of borderlands 1 HDR or RDR2 HDR before it got patched. ?
 

TaySan

Member
Dec 10, 2018
6,527
Anyone with a C9 can tell me what settings are you using for RD2 PC? I left peak brightness at 1000 and paper white at 120.
 
OP
OP
EvilBoris

EvilBoris

HDTVtest
Verified
Oct 29, 2017
6,986
Maybe some of you willl be able to help me with a Dolby Vision issue...

I'm playing NFS Heat right now, and I have my PC (rtx 2080 Super) hooked up to my LG C7, but unfortunatly I can't play on it because HDR seems messed up. When I launch the game, the Dolby Vision icon pops up in the corner of the screen, and from there I get nothing but a black screen. Even Alt+F4ing the game doesn't bring back an image, it's stuck on a black screen and I have to reboot the PC to get an image back (or switch off and on HDMI ultra deep color in the TV settings). Sometimes I get an image but everything is bright pink/purple with atrocious color banding.

Do you guys know anything about this issue ? I believe similar things occured with Anthem and other DV games.
I don’t have a great deal of experience with DoVi, but I would do the following checks.

make sure full screen optimisations are disabled for the game.

Make sure you are using a “TV” resolution [email protected] or [email protected]

Try the game with HDR off in Windows.

Dolby Vision is “Full range” so try a colour setting which allows for this


reading on line a lot of People with this issue have more than one display connected, is this the case for you?
 
Last edited:
OP
OP
EvilBoris

EvilBoris

HDTVtest
Verified
Oct 29, 2017
6,986
I forgot about HGIG. I turned it on for Modern Warfare should I leave that on for all games? Thank you.
any game that’s allows you to adjust to 700 (either numerically or with the “white box” style calibration screen)

There are a handful of games which are fixed at 4000 or 10000 which will exhibit a metric ton of highlight clipping if you enable it (Horizon ZD for example) , for those, just turn DTM off.