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HDR games analysed
- Thread starter EvilBoris
- Start date
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I want to say 2000 , but I can't remember off the top of my head.
Is there any HDR game that uses wide color gamut? It seems to me that making an HDR release of a 3D game should be simple, even if the game was not made with it in mind, but to expand the colors the art creation would need to be done with it in mind, unless the developer is ok with artificially expanding the colors, making them inaccurate.
Digital Foundry did a HDR/SDR comparison video for Gears, and the colors in the HDR version are the same for the SDR version
Digital Foundry did a HDR/SDR comparison video for Gears, and the colors in the HDR version are the same for the SDR version
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God of War and Gran Turismo both do apparently.
You do see it a couple of times in GoW, a couple of the drauger make a very specific blue coloured particle effect and the glowing red trees around the witches house both have a very distinct look which I suspect is due to WCG.
Everything else does get expanded and part of this process requires a colour management solution to manage the hue shift. for most games you wouldn't notice, especially as many TVs process SDR and HDR content so differently anyway. There is the odd game where there is a noticable hue shift (Mirrors Edge BC has almost purple blue skies).
Even for DF to do a an SDR vs HDR comparison , the captured SDR footage would be expanded to HDR vales in order to be displayed in the same video, so any hue shift not managed by the game's process would also occur when DF did the conversion. This might be why it looked exactly the same
Gears 4 also supports WCG and I just bought Onrush and its HDR support is great with what appears to be a WCG.
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It doesn't, all games on Xbox are REC709 (so far) and that extends across to the majority of PS4 games, with a couple of exceptions that I listed above.
Great thread. I purchased a HDR-capable monitor yesterday and I gotta say, it really is a game changer. Still gotta tinker with the nits levels but now it feels like I've been spoiled and can't go back to a non-HDR display. Tried God of War and AC Origins so far and loved how much of a difference it makes. Thinking of picking up Horizon Zero Dawn again just to see it how looks now seeing as it's praised for its HDR visuals.
I'm a believer!
I'm a believer!
Well this is from Mike Rayner, Technical Director on Gears 4.
"One of the exclusive features for Gears of War 4 on Xbox One X is the ability to run 4K HDR with Wide Color Gamut Support."
https://gearsofwar.com/en-us/community/gears-4-xbox-one-x
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It directly contradicts other things MS have said and what the SDK dictates.
I'd love to be proven wrong
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I actually just sent that guy a message, but in the meanwhile found this
https://cdn.gearsofwar.com/thecoalition/publications/HDRTVOutputandLightingGearsofWar4.pdf
EvilBoris, is there any chance you could take a look at State of Decay 2, and perhaps provide some suggestions for the Sony X800? Your analysis of Forza Horizon 3 really helped me get it looking good.
The calibration in State of Decay 2 is very confusing to me.
The calibration in State of Decay 2 is very confusing to me.
This is really interesting, yes they are targeting P3 color space ! Remember MS also has the insects demo and I believe that also illustrates the benefit of HDR and WCG.I actually just sent that guy a message, but in the meanwhile found this
https://cdn.gearsofwar.com/thecoalition/publications/HDRTVOutputandLightingGearsofWar4.pdf
I still think Onrush also targets P3 at least on the X, colors look really saturated.
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I think the Xbox SDK currently doesn't support it or MS stipulate games must be REC709 then expanded.
DICE mentioned it a presentation and I've read it somewhere else too, Albert Pennello also said that non of the first HDR games were making use of WCG.
WCG is mentioned again on MS site regarding the insects demo. I work in TV entertainment and IMO Gears 4 appears to support WCG. : ) REC709 then expanded to P3 is WCG.
https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2017/11/06/xbox-one-x-insects-video/
But i do agree there are very few titles that use it. God of War 4 and GT Sport as well.
More here as well
https://venturebeat.com/2017/10/28/albert-penello-microsofts-best-pitch-for-the-xbox-one-x/
From Albert Penello "Effectively, it's a real-time in-engine demo. This is all being rendered by the Xbox One X, but it's designed to highlight 4K resolution and wide color gamut and HDR."
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I see lots of banding in my PS4 Pro (in HDR games) compared to the One X, that is because the X have a toggle to select 10 or 12 bit content while the Pro remains unknown in that matter? Even God of War shows banding in the clear blue skies of the ending section.
I also see banding on the Pro in skies sometimes, I have a HDR10/Dolby Vision TV. That's really not an issue the Pro should have.
I used to see banding in skies as well, quiet a lot tbh, but i do not see it anymore since i bought a new tv. so i figured it was a issue with the tv. (for what its worth: the banding was seen on a medium range 2016 LG 4K HDR tv. i now have a high range 2018 QLED Q8F, and all banding is gone)
btw, Did they patch in HDR for Rise Of The Tomb Raider? i've always thought that game didn't have HDR
Isn't it because it refuses to use 4:4:4 even on 30 fps games?
Thought this might be of interest to some folks here. This is likely the 4K HDR capture card I've been hoping to see become a reality:
https://venturebeat.com/2018/06/05/...r-support-for-its-live-gamer-4k-capture-card/
https://venturebeat.com/2018/06/05/...r-support-for-its-live-gamer-4k-capture-card/
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Banding won't be solved in lots of games be use many of them aren't authored with 10bit colours in mind.
Depending on how the game has been expanded from 8bit to 10bit, it's actually plausible that banding could be worse. Despite supposedly using WCG, GoW has some noticeable banding.
Mine is a B6 OLED, is prone to banding but is defeatable in the One X and PC.
I'm still praying for LG to fix their dire dim HDR game mode on the 7 series! Otherwise injection is the only way
If I'm not mistaken, it's not a fixable issue. It requires a certain processing chip.
It's fixable as wasn't like it before a certain firmware update.
what is the issue with it?
I have been playing BF2 with HDR, AC origins with HDR, FFXV with HDR, and recently spider man and god of war?
i agree that hte 8 series this year has a brighter game mode, but it really isnt that much. It is still night and day brighter than a 2012 1080p LED tv i had, at least personally
People are complaining about it because they changed how game mode processed HDR, even though I personally feel it is better now. Before, it would clip, because it would only handle a specific range, and you would miss out on any detail above a certain range (since the TV can't display it). Now, it takes the full range, and compresses it to fit the tv, so no matter what you play, it will always display everything. This means, that to support seeing that extra range detail, it requires that the overall picture be darker (otherwise it would have to be clipped). If you find the picture is too dark in HDR Game Mode, you should enable Adaptive Contrast and set it as high as you can bear.
Yes, ideally they would add in a selector, for us to choose something more reasonable like 2000 nit or 1500, for those cases where we know what the specific range output is.
idk if i have that adaptive contrast on my B7A 2017 oled but i feel like the brightness is alright in games.
during day time watching, not gaming, watching specifically .. i can see the reflection of the blinds and window, which i wish i did not.
but ill live. Most content hides it, it is just dark moments. At night it is perfect
Yeah, it makes me want to put up blackout curtains in my living room.
mine is a personal bedroom, but i should look into that myself,
Oh, you should absolutely then, they are great for sleeping too, or keeping out heat.
lemme tell you the story of thick headed Crimson-XIII (myself) and how he got a new house this year, moved the b7a oled tv, and didnt put blinds up in his room the first 2 weeks...
Well, the sun ray went through the window and on the tv. leaving a black smudge that looked like dead pixels. I only noticed it the second week.
after a heart attack, i was happy to see it was corrected with the 1 hour calibration the tv has. love the safety options on it.
Any of you folks with an LG OLED using the High setting with Dynamic Contrast for HDR Game mode? I often feel like with the dimmer settings, blacks are displaying a bit crushed and I'm blocking detail. I use the recommended HDR Game settings as a hybrid between some of Digital Foundry's suggestions in their 6-series settings video and Rtings recommended settings, which seems to be similar to what most of the other users with LG OLEDs report on this forum. I go with Expanded Color Gamut (the middle option) as sort of my own little twist to the recommendations, and I currently use the Medium Dynamic Contrast. High definitely seems to bring out darker detail a bit better but seems to make the high range (bright sections) wash out a bit as a trade off.
EDIT: Derp -- forgot to say I have a B7A.
EDIT: Derp -- forgot to say I have a B7A.
doesnt game mode turn off contrast? idk, i remember playing with 40 brightness and blacks seemed crushed and someone here told me to play with color and brightness on 50-55 and itll be fine
No, dynamic contrast still works. And you should use it if you feel that game mode is too dark.
Agree, the storms and night scenes look fantastic ! Sea of Thieves is the other game that really stands out on Xbox with its HDR implementation.
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High Dynamic Contrast absolutely crushes my blacks. In fact, Medium seems to be the only setting that doesn't, and I just don't find the brightness boost to be noteworthy.
It's dimmer but apparently more accurate now? I know you're not alone though in preferring "the way it was".
Yeah I think I saw this happening on my B7, too -- I'll just try and up the TV's brightness setting a bit (it's currently at 50) and see if that sort of takes away the impression of crushed blacks, then. I really hate trying to adjust things on a per-game basis.
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I was working on a big in depth look at MCC, but my Mac totally fried itself last night so have had some what of a hitch.
I've ordered a new Surface Book 2 today, which is quite a bit more capable , so I may even look at making a video instead
I've ordered a new Surface Book 2 today, which is quite a bit more capable , so I may even look at making a video instead